Now I feel really sad every time I think about... (SPOILERS)

  • 51 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by Maajin (1052 posts) -

...giraffes!

Even then I felt it was probably the final moment between Joel and Ellie before things got real bad. Such a beautiful, surreal scene.

#2 Posted by Pie (7058 posts) -

It was very cool but man, all I could think about was Jurassic Park.

#3 Edited by CaLe (3914 posts) -

Shit.... I went a different direction because it seemed like I would have missed something and I completely skipped this scene. What happened between them?

Checking YouTube now.. God damn it, I felt I missed a couple of lines between them or something, but I missed much more than that. Giraffe petting!

Online
#4 Posted by GnaTSoL (791 posts) -

I actually thought that was all out of place a bit...... Like Giraffes in Salt Lake? That many? What what!?

What a godlike game though and I pretty much just watched it on youtube. I already need a follow-up. Hope the dlc will continue the story from where it left off, but most likely not. Seems like sequel content, no?

#5 Edited by Yummylee (21293 posts) -
@gnatsol said:

What a godlike game though and I pretty much just watched it on youtube. I already need a follow-up. Hope the dlc will continue the story from where it left off, but most likely not. Seems like sequel content, no?

Nah, there's not going to be any new story content to do with Joel and Ellie. Naughty Dog were adamant in pointing out that their story's over after The Last of Us. I would wage a guess that the single-player DLC will follow Henry and Sam, though I'd also love if we get more of Bill or Tess, or maybe even Marlene. Fuck it, I just want more The Last of Us!

As for the giraffes, it was such an incredibly beautiful scene. I spent about 3 minutes just taking it all in, resting on the railing next to Ellie.

#6 Edited by CaLe (3914 posts) -

@gnatsol said:

What a godlike game though and I pretty much just watched it on youtube.

Man, this game more than any other I felt I was controlling real human characters. The difference in feeling from when you switch from Ellie back Joel when he finally recovers is something I won't forget. No game has ever given me that sense of familiarity with a character. Just watching it on YouTube is no way to fully experience this game. The sensation of feeling like Joel was dying in your hands when he's losing so much blood and could barely walk... Controlling him through that... Feeling helpless to protect Ellie.. It was heart wrenching because of how it felt to control him in those moments.

Online
#7 Posted by GnaTSoL (791 posts) -

@yummylee: That really bums me out then and makes me dislike that ending now. It sets up perfectly for it to be continued in a sequel but now it looks to end up becoming like a horror film ending... Bizarre cut to fin if there's no sequel. Too much of a broad ending.

#8 Posted by RonGalaxy (2898 posts) -

@gnatsol: Zoos, and 20 years of giraffes banging. It makes sense when you think about it

#9 Edited by Abendlaender (2766 posts) -

Don't watch The Hangover 3 then.

#10 Posted by psylah (2162 posts) -

Giraffes.

Who couldn't appreciate those long necks?

So slender.

#11 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5265 posts) -

I was really glad to have an extended scene of peace after the events of winter. That shit was intense.

#12 Posted by GunstarRed (5043 posts) -

It reminded me of Jurassic Park also.

The game really should have had a boss fight against an infected giraffe though.

#13 Posted by EXTomar (4508 posts) -

@psylah said:

Giraffes.

Who couldn't appreciate those long necks?

So slender.

I would suspect other giraffes would.

#14 Posted by wemibelec90 (1563 posts) -

@gnatsol said:

@yummylee: That really bums me out then and makes me dislike that ending now. It sets up perfectly for it to be continued in a sequel but now it looks to end up becoming like a horror film ending... Bizarre cut to fin if there's no sequel. Too much of a broad ending.

I personally am very glad there won't be a continuation to the story of Ellie and Joel. It ended pretty much exactly where I wanted it to. I don't really see why anything else needs to be said after that final scene. They've come to terms with what they've done and are ready to move on.

#15 Posted by MiniPato (2721 posts) -

@gnatsol said:

@yummylee: That really bums me out then and makes me dislike that ending now. It sets up perfectly for it to be continued in a sequel but now it looks to end up becoming like a horror film ending... Bizarre cut to fin if there's no sequel. Too much of a broad ending.

I personally am very glad there won't be a continuation to the story of Ellie and Joel. It ended pretty much exactly where I wanted it to. I don't really see why anything else needs to be said after that final scene. They've come to terms with what they've done and are ready to move on.

Yeah, I feel like if there was any kind of followup, sequel, DLC, or otherwise, it should be with a different cast of people. Or heck, I wouldn't mind Ellie DLC during fall/winter where you play as her while Joel is knocked out. But if there were a big sequel, I would love to see how that fungal apocalypse affected Japan or more arid, desert regions of the world.

#16 Posted by Blackout62 (1329 posts) -

@minipato: Horrible sand storms rich in fungal spores. It'd be Spec Ops: The Line but with zombies.

@gnatsol said:

I actually thought that was all out of place a bit...... Like Giraffes in Salt Lake? That many? What what!?

Salt Lake City has a zoo... (researches)... Utah's Hogle Zoo has giraffes.

#17 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4604 posts) -

@gnatsol said:

@yummylee: That really bums me out then and makes me dislike that ending now. It sets up perfectly for it to be continued in a sequel but now it looks to end up becoming like a horror film ending... Bizarre cut to fin if there's no sequel. Too much of a broad ending.

I personally am very glad there won't be a continuation to the story of Ellie and Joel. It ended pretty much exactly where I wanted it to. I don't really see why anything else needs to be said after that final scene. They've come to terms with what they've done and are ready to move on.

Joel has, but Ellie's just as hollow and broken by the end of The Last of Us as Joel was in the beginning. She lays it all bare for him on that cliff. Everything she's seen and done since Boston has been for nothing. Ellie believed that through sacrificing herself to find a vaccine for the infection she would have been redeemed for all of the heinous, awful things she's done in the name of survival. Joel stole that redemption from her and perhaps worst of all, he stole her hope for the future. And she knows. She practically begged him to come clean, to give back her hope, but Joel is selfish. He's found his replacement for Sarah and he will manipulate or destroy anything that threatens that.

Joel is a real piece of shit, if you didn't guess.

#18 Edited by GnaTSoL (791 posts) -

@wemibelec90 said:

@gnatsol said:

@yummylee: That really bums me out then and makes me dislike that ending now. It sets up perfectly for it to be continued in a sequel but now it looks to end up becoming like a horror film ending... Bizarre cut to fin if there's no sequel. Too much of a broad ending.

I personally am very glad there won't be a continuation to the story of Ellie and Joel. It ended pretty much exactly where I wanted it to. I don't really see why anything else needs to be said after that final scene. They've come to terms with what they've done and are ready to move on.

Joel has, but Ellie's just as hollow and broken by the end of The Last of Us as Joel was in the beginning. She lays it all bare for him on that cliff. Everything she's seen and done since Boston has been for nothing. Ellie believed that through sacrificing herself to find a vaccine for the infection she would have been redeemed for all of the heinous, awful things she's done in the name of survival. Joel stole that redemption from her and perhaps worst of all, he stole her hope for the future. And she knows. She practically begged him to come clean, to give back her hope, but Joel is selfish. He's found his replacement for Sarah and he will manipulate or destroy anything that threatens that.

Joel is a real piece of shit, if you didn't guess.

C'mon man. I agree Ellie needs more closure, but Joel like a father was trying to protect Ellie. As selfish as that may be. The cure comes at the cost of her life. She would be sacrificing for lots of people who frankly and probably don't deserve a cure.

And Ellie didn't know saving humanity would kill her in the end so any Joel could have offered Ellie at the end wouldn't have been the hope she imagined exactly. It made everything absolutely heart-wrenchingly complex. I can't be mad at Joel. I'm more so impressed on how far he went.

#19 Posted by Strider57 (12 posts) -

@Oldirtybearon: Well said. I think it's an important sign that at the end, the player now controls Ellie, not Joel. Joel ceased being the protagonist when he entered the elevator. Ellie still has loads of development potential. I reckon any possible sequels would focus on her.

#20 Posted by schizzy (22 posts) -

The worst part is when you finally decide to walk away the beautiful music becomes dissonant as their momentary escapism comes to an end.

#21 Posted by Blastroid (257 posts) -

I tried to shoot them. Am I evil?

#22 Posted by dropabombonit (1484 posts) -

@blastroid Yes because that scene was a moment of beauty in what is a pretty dark game. I just wanted to stay there forever

#23 Posted by wemibelec90 (1563 posts) -

@oldirtybearon said:

@wemibelec90 said:

@gnatsol said:

@yummylee: That really bums me out then and makes me dislike that ending now. It sets up perfectly for it to be continued in a sequel but now it looks to end up becoming like a horror film ending... Bizarre cut to fin if there's no sequel. Too much of a broad ending.

I personally am very glad there won't be a continuation to the story of Ellie and Joel. It ended pretty much exactly where I wanted it to. I don't really see why anything else needs to be said after that final scene. They've come to terms with what they've done and are ready to move on.

Joel has, but Ellie's just as hollow and broken by the end of The Last of Us as Joel was in the beginning. She lays it all bare for him on that cliff. Everything she's seen and done since Boston has been for nothing. Ellie believed that through sacrificing herself to find a vaccine for the infection she would have been redeemed for all of the heinous, awful things she's done in the name of survival. Joel stole that redemption from her and perhaps worst of all, he stole her hope for the future. And she knows. She practically begged him to come clean, to give back her hope, but Joel is selfish. He's found his replacement for Sarah and he will manipulate or destroy anything that threatens that.

Joel is a real piece of shit, if you didn't guess.

That's not how I saw that ending. I do think Ellie isn't quite fully accepting of the events that played out just yet, but she quite obviously knows that Joel was lying to her at the end. Her final word of acceptance feels like her giving in to the lie and agreeing to live with what Joel has done for her. Joel may have been a completely terrible person for killing all those people and stealing away Ellie's hope for humanity, but it so perfectly fits his character that I couldn't find any fault in it. It was selfish and horrific, but I can't help but agree with him for Ellie's sake.

#24 Posted by kishinfoulux (2256 posts) -

@pie said:

It was very cool but man, all I could think about was Jurassic Park.

You and me both. I actually sort of thought when they petted it, it would reveal itself as an infected and attack them. >_>

#25 Posted by EpicSteve (6479 posts) -

@gnatsol said:

I actually thought that was all out of place a bit...... Like Giraffes in Salt Lake? That many? What what!?

What a godlike game though and I pretty much just watched it on youtube. I already need a follow-up. Hope the dlc will continue the story from where it left off, but most likely not. Seems like sequel content, no?

I put it together they were from a zoo.

#26 Edited by Milkman (16540 posts) -

The game is so incredibly bleak that any moment of levity just hits so much harder. This was one of my favorite parts of the game. Such a beautiful scene. I wanted to stay there forever.

#27 Edited by Jay_Ray (1070 posts) -

@gnatsol said:

I actually thought that was all out of place a bit...... Like Giraffes in Salt Lake? That many? What what!?

What a godlike game though and I pretty much just watched it on youtube. I already need a follow-up. Hope the dlc will continue the story from where it left off, but most likely not. Seems like sequel content, no?

I put it together they were from a zoo.

Yep from a zoo, and they wouldn't even have to be from a Salt Lake City zoo since animals walk and migrate.

#28 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5808 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: I think Joel ended up being more crazy than evil by the end.

He didn't even want anything to do with Ellie at first. After all the awful shit they went through together though, it makes sense that he would be willing to do anything to keep her with him.

#29 Posted by SamStrife (1282 posts) -

@jay_ray said:

@epicsteve said:

@gnatsol said:

I actually thought that was all out of place a bit...... Like Giraffes in Salt Lake? That many? What what!?

What a godlike game though and I pretty much just watched it on youtube. I already need a follow-up. Hope the dlc will continue the story from where it left off, but most likely not. Seems like sequel content, no?

I put it together they were from a zoo.

Yep from a zoo, and they wouldn't even have to be from a Salt Lake City zoo since animals walk and migrate.

There's actually a lot of foreshadowing to the Giraffes in the form of posters and advertisements for Salt Lake City Zoo plastered over the city. There was several cases leading up to that scene I saw posters of Giraffes which said "ZOO" on them, though I thought nothing of them until I actually saw them.

#30 Edited by Humanity (8848 posts) -

I heard a lot of people say that the giraffes were this emotional breakdown point where some even claimed to have teared up or cried. Maybe I'm a sociopath but I felt absolutely nothing beyond the slightest "oh giraffes ok." Maybe it's because I almost turned into Joel at that point and was laser focused on getting to that hospital where I thought OK OK no distractions guys let's get moving that hospital isn't going to stand up and crawl through infected tunnels to us.

#31 Posted by Ghostiet (5228 posts) -

Joel has, but Ellie's just as hollow and broken by the end of The Last of Us as Joel was in the beginning. She lays it all bare for him on that cliff. Everything she's seen and done since Boston has been for nothing. Ellie believed that through sacrificing herself to find a vaccine for the infection she would have been redeemed for all of the heinous, awful things she's done in the name of survival. Joel stole that redemption from her and perhaps worst of all, he stole her hope for the future. And she knows. She practically begged him to come clean, to give back her hope, but Joel is selfish. He's found his replacement for Sarah and he will manipulate or destroy anything that threatens that.

Joel is a real piece of shit, if you didn't guess.

Still, I think it made sense for him to do that and there were enough justifications. I think he made up his mind to stop the procedure right after they told him that he can't say goodbye to Ellie - that was a red flag that these people can't be trusted. Sarah died because of a human who couldn't trust him or have a human reaction to their plight.

Not to mention that I don't see the cure becoming anything else but a bargain chip. The Fireflies are ineffective pieces of shit from what you see and hear in the game - they're good at bombings and all that accomplishes is that they're spread super-thinly and the quarantine zone's are even more oppressive. The potential vaccination would probably sit on a fucking shelf for the next 10 years until it stopped being anything relevant.

So yeah, I'd say that Ellie's less resigned and simply accepting that Joel is giving her a chance to redeem herself anyway - by living.

#32 Posted by selfconfessedcynic (2495 posts) -

@schizzy said:

The worst part is when you finally decide to walk away the beautiful music becomes dissonant as their momentary escapism comes to an end.

Agreed. But up until then, I almost cried man. I just had them standing there, leaning up against the wall and I almost cried.

#33 Edited by LiquidPrince (15851 posts) -

@oldirtybearon said:

@wemibelec90 said:

@gnatsol said:

@yummylee: That really bums me out then and makes me dislike that ending now. It sets up perfectly for it to be continued in a sequel but now it looks to end up becoming like a horror film ending... Bizarre cut to fin if there's no sequel. Too much of a broad ending.

I personally am very glad there won't be a continuation to the story of Ellie and Joel. It ended pretty much exactly where I wanted it to. I don't really see why anything else needs to be said after that final scene. They've come to terms with what they've done and are ready to move on.

Joel has, but Ellie's just as hollow and broken by the end of The Last of Us as Joel was in the beginning. She lays it all bare for him on that cliff. Everything she's seen and done since Boston has been for nothing. Ellie believed that through sacrificing herself to find a vaccine for the infection she would have been redeemed for all of the heinous, awful things she's done in the name of survival. Joel stole that redemption from her and perhaps worst of all, he stole her hope for the future. And she knows. She practically begged him to come clean, to give back her hope, but Joel is selfish. He's found his replacement for Sarah and he will manipulate or destroy anything that threatens that.

Joel is a real piece of shit, if you didn't guess.

It wasn't even a guarantee that they could find a cure. Ellie was just a lead, and I don't think allowing her to die, just for a lead would be the right thing to do. Besides, if she has evolved and become immune then who's to say others haven't?

Joel did the right thing. Humanity perseveres and adapts, and Tommy and his electric powerplant was a step towards adapting, and trying to become a civilization again.

#34 Edited by TheOther (77 posts) -

I really liked how subtle the ending was. Throughout the game I was getting prepared to bawl my eyes out because either Joel or Ellie died, but I really admire Naughty Dog for not going down that path. Instead they ended the game on just as heartbreaking a note, but more subtly so.

Weirdly enough, what probably hit me the hardest was when I realized a couple of days after finishing the game, that had the Fireflies gone through with the surgery, Ellie wouldn't have even known that they made it to the Fireflies. In an odd way, the most heartbreaking thing about that is the fact that Ellie, having wanted to "sacrifice herself" so badly, wouldn't have even known that she did it. All she would've "known" was that in her last, conscious moments she drowned trying to save Joel.

Shit's rough.

#35 Posted by Humanity (8848 posts) -

@liquidprince: on the IGN spoilercast they mentioned how one of the guys that worked on the game specifically said that the way they envisioned the story it would guarantee a cure.

#36 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2495 posts) -

@humanity said:

@liquidprince: on the IGN spoilercast they mentioned how one of the guys that worked on the game specifically said that the way they envisioned the story it would guarantee a cure.

Yup - then again, I'm in the camp saying that the person experiencing the art can bring their own interpretation to it.

For example, to me, Dumbledoor is not gay. Not that I think it'd be bad or anything, but rather I never envisioned him that way and it was never explicitly stated (I consider him like many great men in history, just too busy for romance in general - I can't imagine him ever having a girlfriend or a boyfriend).

The beauty of subtle storytelling is it allows us to fill in the gaps in our own ways, and hence for different people to get entirely different things out of a single work.

#37 Posted by Flappy (2141 posts) -

@theother said:

Weirdly enough, what probably hit me the hardest was when I realized a couple of days after finishing the game, that had the Fireflies gone through with the surgery, Ellie wouldn't have even known that they made it to the Fireflies. In an odd way, the most heartbreaking thing about that is the fact that Ellie, having wanted to "sacrifice herself" so badly, wouldn't have even known that she did it. All she would've "known" was that in her last, conscious moments she drowned trying to save Joel.

Shit's rough.

Daaaaaamn. I never even picked up on that, so good job on doing the detective work for me.

#38 Posted by Humanity (8848 posts) -

@humanity said:

@liquidprince: on the IGN spoilercast they mentioned how one of the guys that worked on the game specifically said that the way they envisioned the story it would guarantee a cure.

Yup - then again, I'm in the camp saying that the person experiencing the art can bring their own interpretation to it.

For example, to me, Dumbledoor is not gay. Not that I think it'd be bad or anything, but rather I never envisioned him that way and it was never explicitly stated (I consider him like many great men in history, just too busy for romance in general - I can't imagine him ever having a girlfriend or a boyfriend).

The beauty of subtle storytelling is it allows us to fill in the gaps in our own ways, and hence for different people to get entirely different things out of a single work.

I completely agree that there is room for interpretation in any story - but I'd argue that when the author spells out what his exact intentions were you can no longer really interpret it any other way. If the author from The Last of Us clearly stated - "Joel is gay, this is how I wrote his character", and fans of the game said "well I didn't see any evidence in the story to support that so my interpretation of it is that he's straight." In that situation I'd say the fans are wrong and they don't get to make that call no matter how they saw the story. As the author and ultimately creator of the character it is his say how that character is meant to be seen.

This is why I commented earlier how I disliked Moriarty from the IGN spoilercast, because they told him flat out - "NO, no listen the operation would guarantee a cure, we made the game, we are telling you this is the way we wrote it and it's the way it is" - and he would say "yahhh but despite that MY interpretation of it.." like no, listen they just told you straight up what it is you can't just completely go against fact because you had a different hunch. That's like saying "well I thought Joel hated his daughter because thats how I interpreted the story" but clearly that's not how they wrote it.

Just the way I see it.

#39 Posted by LiquidPrince (15851 posts) -

@humanity said:

@selfconfessedcynic said:

@humanity said:

@liquidprince: on the IGN spoilercast they mentioned how one of the guys that worked on the game specifically said that the way they envisioned the story it would guarantee a cure.

Yup - then again, I'm in the camp saying that the person experiencing the art can bring their own interpretation to it.

For example, to me, Dumbledoor is not gay. Not that I think it'd be bad or anything, but rather I never envisioned him that way and it was never explicitly stated (I consider him like many great men in history, just too busy for romance in general - I can't imagine him ever having a girlfriend or a boyfriend).

The beauty of subtle storytelling is it allows us to fill in the gaps in our own ways, and hence for different people to get entirely different things out of a single work.

I completely agree that there is room for interpretation in any story - but I'd argue that when the author spells out what his exact intentions were you can no longer really interpret it any other way. If the author from The Last of Us clearly stated - "Joel is gay, this is how I wrote his character", and fans of the game said "well I didn't see any evidence in the story to support that so my interpretation of it is that he's straight." In that situation I'd say the fans are wrong and they don't get to make that call no matter how they saw the story. As the author and ultimately creator of the character it is his say how that character is meant to be seen.

This is why I commented earlier how I disliked Moriarty from the IGN spoilercast, because they told him flat out - "NO, no listen the operation would guarantee a cure, we made the game, we are telling you this is the way we wrote it and it's the way it is" - and he would say "yahhh but despite that MY interpretation of it.." like no, listen they just told you straight up what it is you can't just completely go against fact because you had a different hunch. That's like saying "well I thought Joel hated his daughter because thats how I interpreted the story" but clearly that's not how they wrote it.

Just the way I see it.

You can have any intentions that you want, but once the art has left the creators hands and is in the public, it becomes open to interpretation. In the situation that you're arguing for, the majority of the team at Naughty Dog, or even just the actual authors of the story/script would have to come out and say that the solution was sure fire, before I would accept that. Even then I'd say it's iffy. As it stands now, the game does not give you enough information to assure the player that that was a guaranteed solution, and the word of some random anonymous employee holds little sway for me.

#40 Edited by Scampbell (492 posts) -

It actually didn't take very long from realizing Ellie would be sacrificed, to accepting Joels actions, and basically be in complete agreement.

I mean after all the people you've already killed, why should Joel feel any remorse for killing these people? I Also kinda felt that humanity didn't really deserve to be saved by one person, especially the way they chose to go about it, without even asking Ellie.

But yea, like a lot people, I felt this was basically the perfect ending, uncompromising and true to the story and it's characters. I would consider it a sort blasphemy if they made a continuation of the story of Joel and Ellie.

I really hope this is the style we are gonna see with their next game on the PS4. Though I also hope they will be even more uncompromising, as it still felt they had too much game element, like the fact you are killing obscene amounts of enemies.

This is why the game at first disappointed me, not the prologue where Joel's daughter dies, but right after where Tess and Joel right out of the get go goes on a rampage killing dozens of people, like they where nothing but vermin. I consciously decided to ignore this aspect and ended op really liking the game, though I do hope they will be more conscious of this in their next game, as it is really detrimental to the story.

I think the subtlety of the ending is what makes it great, at same time I dislike when they are dramatic for no reason other than to create tension, like when they for no reason had to have an attack on the power station. As if they thought: "we can't have a segment without fighting!" And with Bill at the school: "we can't have game without a Boss Fight!".

And for God's sake, the stupid spawning enemies, like in Bill's town right before the school, I stealth killed all the infected, but apparently they decided there should be an invisible group which will automatically hear you no matter what.

In Boston(?) too, where Joel allows Ellie to use a rifle, I stealth killed every Bandit, but apparently they made it so that when you kill the last guy, they will still spawn a new group as if they had heard something, one of them actually spawned right in front of me. Would it be so crazy to only trigger this if you are discovered? And for God's sake don't spawn enemies right in front of the player, that is so stupid.

When I all this is said, I have to add that this is one of the best games I've played.

#41 Posted by Humanity (8848 posts) -

@humanity said:

@selfconfessedcynic said:

@humanity said:

@liquidprince: on the IGN spoilercast they mentioned how one of the guys that worked on the game specifically said that the way they envisioned the story it would guarantee a cure.

Yup - then again, I'm in the camp saying that the person experiencing the art can bring their own interpretation to it.

For example, to me, Dumbledoor is not gay. Not that I think it'd be bad or anything, but rather I never envisioned him that way and it was never explicitly stated (I consider him like many great men in history, just too busy for romance in general - I can't imagine him ever having a girlfriend or a boyfriend).

The beauty of subtle storytelling is it allows us to fill in the gaps in our own ways, and hence for different people to get entirely different things out of a single work.

I completely agree that there is room for interpretation in any story - but I'd argue that when the author spells out what his exact intentions were you can no longer really interpret it any other way. If the author from The Last of Us clearly stated - "Joel is gay, this is how I wrote his character", and fans of the game said "well I didn't see any evidence in the story to support that so my interpretation of it is that he's straight." In that situation I'd say the fans are wrong and they don't get to make that call no matter how they saw the story. As the author and ultimately creator of the character it is his say how that character is meant to be seen.

This is why I commented earlier how I disliked Moriarty from the IGN spoilercast, because they told him flat out - "NO, no listen the operation would guarantee a cure, we made the game, we are telling you this is the way we wrote it and it's the way it is" - and he would say "yahhh but despite that MY interpretation of it.." like no, listen they just told you straight up what it is you can't just completely go against fact because you had a different hunch. That's like saying "well I thought Joel hated his daughter because thats how I interpreted the story" but clearly that's not how they wrote it.

Just the way I see it.

You can have any intentions that you want, but once the art has left the creators hands and is in the public, it becomes open to interpretation. In the situation that you're arguing for, the majority of the team at Naughty Dog, or even just the actual authors of the story/script would have to come out and say that the solution was sure fire, before I would accept that. Even then I'd say it's iffy. As it stands now, the game does not give you enough information to assure the player that that was a guaranteed solution, and the word of some random anonymous employee holds little sway for me.

See I am strongly against the mindset that once the art leaves the hands of the creator it is magically now up to the public to decide what the author actually meant by it. I believe that is incredibly disrespectful to the author. When someone puts a lot of time and effort into crafting an entire world you can't just strip away his rights from it and say that it's now up to the public to decide.

I don't remember the guys exact title but as far as I remember it wasn't just a random guy who did shaders, but one of the main designers of the game (although I could be wrong, it's an hour long show and I don't feel like looking through it although it's a good listen)

#42 Posted by selfconfessedcynic (2495 posts) -

@humanity said:

@liquidprince said:

@humanity said:

@selfconfessedcynic said:

@humanity said:

@liquidprince: on the IGN spoilercast they mentioned how one of the guys that worked on the game specifically said that the way they envisioned the story it would guarantee a cure.

Yup - then again, I'm in the camp saying that the person experiencing the art can bring their own interpretation to it.

For example, to me, Dumbledoor is not gay. Not that I think it'd be bad or anything, but rather I never envisioned him that way and it was never explicitly stated (I consider him like many great men in history, just too busy for romance in general - I can't imagine him ever having a girlfriend or a boyfriend).

The beauty of subtle storytelling is it allows us to fill in the gaps in our own ways, and hence for different people to get entirely different things out of a single work.

I completely agree that there is room for interpretation in any story - but I'd argue that when the author spells out what his exact intentions were you can no longer really interpret it any other way. If the author from The Last of Us clearly stated - "Joel is gay, this is how I wrote his character", and fans of the game said "well I didn't see any evidence in the story to support that so my interpretation of it is that he's straight." In that situation I'd say the fans are wrong and they don't get to make that call no matter how they saw the story. As the author and ultimately creator of the character it is his say how that character is meant to be seen.

This is why I commented earlier how I disliked Moriarty from the IGN spoilercast, because they told him flat out - "NO, no listen the operation would guarantee a cure, we made the game, we are telling you this is the way we wrote it and it's the way it is" - and he would say "yahhh but despite that MY interpretation of it.." like no, listen they just told you straight up what it is you can't just completely go against fact because you had a different hunch. That's like saying "well I thought Joel hated his daughter because thats how I interpreted the story" but clearly that's not how they wrote it.

Just the way I see it.

You can have any intentions that you want, but once the art has left the creators hands and is in the public, it becomes open to interpretation. In the situation that you're arguing for, the majority of the team at Naughty Dog, or even just the actual authors of the story/script would have to come out and say that the solution was sure fire, before I would accept that. Even then I'd say it's iffy. As it stands now, the game does not give you enough information to assure the player that that was a guaranteed solution, and the word of some random anonymous employee holds little sway for me.

See I am strongly against the mindset that once the art leaves the hands of the creator it is magically now up to the public to decide what the author actually meant by it. I believe that is incredibly disrespectful to the author. When someone puts a lot of time and effort into crafting an entire world you can't just strip away his rights from it and say that it's now up to the public to decide.

I don't remember the guys exact title but as far as I remember it wasn't just a random guy who did shaders, but one of the main designers of the game (although I could be wrong, it's an hour long show and I don't feel like looking through it although it's a good listen)

Remember guys, this has been a debate which has existed in the world of art for many, many years (if I'm not mistaken, hundreds of years - but it's been a long time since I studied any art history).

There are two distinct camps and neither of them are right or wrong. It comes down to fundamental differences in how we perceive the consumption of an artist's work.

I'm firmly in the individual's interpretation camp - but the artist's interpretation camp is just as valid. No need to argue :)

#43 Edited by Humanity (8848 posts) -
#44 Posted by selfconfessedcynic (2495 posts) -
#45 Posted by Dr_Perscitus (49 posts) -

@jay_ray said:

@epicsteve said:

@gnatsol said:

I actually thought that was all out of place a bit...... Like Giraffes in Salt Lake? That many? What what!?

What a godlike game though and I pretty much just watched it on youtube. I already need a follow-up. Hope the dlc will continue the story from where it left off, but most likely not. Seems like sequel content, no?

I put it together they were from a zoo.

Yep from a zoo, and they wouldn't even have to be from a Salt Lake City zoo since animals walk and migrate.

I am pretty convinced that when you arrive in Salt Lake City there is a poster on the side of a bus-stop or wall that describes the recent addition of giraffes at the local zoo.

#46 Edited by LinuxScouser (90 posts) -

I broke down pretty hard when Ellie killed David that I don't think I had anything emotionally left for the giraffe scene. I fucking hated David and God, I think I was just like Ellie as she was butchering him with that machete. Then when she says to Joel "He tried to..." I lost it...just completely utterly lost it. Looking at it on youtube again it just gets me again. So yeah, I had nothing left with the giraffes.

#47 Posted by Little_Socrates (5675 posts) -

@humanity: @selfconfessedcynic:

Just to add my own two cents, it doesn't really matter how one particular Naughty Dog guy interpreted the story. Take a look at Blade Runner; Harrison Ford and Ridley Scott have wildly different interpretations of Ford's character, which was written by a team of writers. Rutger Hauer wrote the "tears in rain" speech himself, so Scott would have no directorial authority as to what the speech means. These interpretations don't even factor into the original novel, which stars a completely different character.

TLOU was created by a massive team of people. Even if one, or even a majority, of those writers perceives the story one way, others might disagree. Every participant might have a different opinion on the validity of the cure. I understand the idea of authorial control and intent, but The Last Of Us is a massive collaboration.

(Not to mention that a lot of creators will intentionally spout one ideology that is false as part of the art as well. Compare Kanye's NY Times interview to Yeezus, for example. Some of it fits the album pretty literally, other parts seem to contradict.

#48 Posted by JasonR86 (9611 posts) -

As soon as I saw this scene I knew something terrible was going to happen.

#49 Posted by LiquidPrince (15851 posts) -

@humanity said:

@liquidprince said:

@humanity said:

@selfconfessedcynic said:

@humanity said:

@liquidprince: on the IGN spoilercast they mentioned how one of the guys that worked on the game specifically said that the way they envisioned the story it would guarantee a cure.

Yup - then again, I'm in the camp saying that the person experiencing the art can bring their own interpretation to it.

For example, to me, Dumbledoor is not gay. Not that I think it'd be bad or anything, but rather I never envisioned him that way and it was never explicitly stated (I consider him like many great men in history, just too busy for romance in general - I can't imagine him ever having a girlfriend or a boyfriend).

The beauty of subtle storytelling is it allows us to fill in the gaps in our own ways, and hence for different people to get entirely different things out of a single work.

I completely agree that there is room for interpretation in any story - but I'd argue that when the author spells out what his exact intentions were you can no longer really interpret it any other way. If the author from The Last of Us clearly stated - "Joel is gay, this is how I wrote his character", and fans of the game said "well I didn't see any evidence in the story to support that so my interpretation of it is that he's straight." In that situation I'd say the fans are wrong and they don't get to make that call no matter how they saw the story. As the author and ultimately creator of the character it is his say how that character is meant to be seen.

This is why I commented earlier how I disliked Moriarty from the IGN spoilercast, because they told him flat out - "NO, no listen the operation would guarantee a cure, we made the game, we are telling you this is the way we wrote it and it's the way it is" - and he would say "yahhh but despite that MY interpretation of it.." like no, listen they just told you straight up what it is you can't just completely go against fact because you had a different hunch. That's like saying "well I thought Joel hated his daughter because thats how I interpreted the story" but clearly that's not how they wrote it.

Just the way I see it.

You can have any intentions that you want, but once the art has left the creators hands and is in the public, it becomes open to interpretation. In the situation that you're arguing for, the majority of the team at Naughty Dog, or even just the actual authors of the story/script would have to come out and say that the solution was sure fire, before I would accept that. Even then I'd say it's iffy. As it stands now, the game does not give you enough information to assure the player that that was a guaranteed solution, and the word of some random anonymous employee holds little sway for me.

See I am strongly against the mindset that once the art leaves the hands of the creator it is magically now up to the public to decide what the author actually meant by it. I believe that is incredibly disrespectful to the author. When someone puts a lot of time and effort into crafting an entire world you can't just strip away his rights from it and say that it's now up to the public to decide.

I don't remember the guys exact title but as far as I remember it wasn't just a random guy who did shaders, but one of the main designers of the game (although I could be wrong, it's an hour long show and I don't feel like looking through it although it's a good listen)

Disrespectful or not, it is how the world works. I'm an art student and this is a constant debate in our classes, but this is the answer that it always comes down to. The author of a story cannot mold such a perfect and complete world, that it will close itself from multiple interpretations. And in fact, you would be creating a weaker piece of art, if you forced it's meaning down peoples throats. The best you can do, is point out elements and hope that people follow the breadcrumbs in the way you want, and thus come to the conclusion that you want. In the case of The Last of Us, there isn't enough of a trail left for the player to prove absolutely that Ellie's death would guarantee a cure. Therefore, it is left open to interpretation. And I choose to interpret it, as being slim at best and not worth Ellie's life.

#50 Edited by big_jon (5709 posts) -

Just went and watched some spoilers, this game has some really emotional scenes and terrific acting in it.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.