So how pissed was Naughty Dog? (spoilers)

#1 Edited by Hunkulese (2702 posts) -

When one of their most impactful moments happened in Tomb Raider's first sequence and to top it off she just shrugs it off.

Online
#2 Posted by falserelic (5413 posts) -

I'm alittle confuse its been awhile sense I played Tomb Raider, can you give some more detail?

#3 Posted by JasonR86 (9659 posts) -

They probably weren't pissed but who am I to say.

#4 Posted by YI_Orange (1142 posts) -

Probably not at all? I see the comparison, but they're different enough and supposed to be impactful for different reasons. I personally found the scene in The Last of Us to be significantly more powerful.

#5 Posted by Hailinel (24427 posts) -

You can't really label something as a spoiler when you're too vague to describe what it is you're apparently spoiling.

#6 Posted by Little_Socrates (5675 posts) -

I know what you're referring to, and, uh, everyone was super bummed out about how that was treated in Tomb Raider, so I think Naughty Dog were probably like "YES! We totally destroyed their representation."

Also, that part in Tomb Raider was the first thing they ever showed of that game on an E3 stage, so I'm hoping ND were already pretty aware of it.

Personally, I'm more curious if the following sequence's appearance in The Walking Dead shook them in their boots.

#7 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (3076 posts) -

If you're referring to the "falling and getting impaled on a spike of rebar" bit, then I doubt that Naughty Dog was upset in the least. If anything, it makes Tomb Raider look (rightfully) ridiculous in comparison.

#8 Posted by CornBREDX (5127 posts) -

It's weird you would spoiler warn and then not have any indication as to what you are talking about.

Anyway, I doubt it. They had so many story beats from other games I did not find the game quite as amazing as most people seem to. I'm sure they came up with it all on their lonesome, but unfortunately several other games beat them to the punch on multiple story beats.

I cant tell what you are referring to, though.

I think the most shocking thing they did was with that one guy and his little brother- and that shouldn't have been the most impactful moment but it didn't really ever get any better than that.

#9 Edited by GaspoweR (2961 posts) -

Man, I'm reading the responses and STILL have no idea what the OP or everyone else who gets it is talking about. Are we talking about the sequence where she was dangling upside down?

#10 Posted by Commisar123 (1791 posts) -

@little_socrates: I like how this thread suggests that video game companies have rap beefs with one another

#11 Posted by NoobSauceG7 (1242 posts) -

If you're referring to the "falling and getting impaled on a spike of rebar" bit, then I doubt that Naughty Dog was upset in the least. If anything, it makes Tomb Raider look (rightfully) ridiculous in comparison.

This.

#12 Posted by TruthTellah (8850 posts) -

Not at all.

#13 Posted by Hunkulese (2702 posts) -

I thought it was pretty obvious since one of the more memorable scenes from both games has the protagonist falling and getting impaled on exposed rebar. I realize they're probably not actually pissed but it does take some impact from the scene when the first thing that crosses your mind is "Hey! Tomb Raider."

Online
#14 Posted by CornBREDX (5127 posts) -

If you're referring to the impaling in that other response, then even more so no.

Tomb Raider made it mean absolutely nothing- it impacts you 0%. The Last of us used the impaling as an excuse to not let you play Joel anymore and instead play Ellie (which kind of then splits between the two for a bit). It felt really clumsy to me and almost like it was a response to all the women in games stuff right now so they felt they needed something like that to make Ellie's character seem more empowered. It also helped to establish the completion of her character arc so it worked in their favor in that regard.

It had little to no impact as a story beat to me. It just made for decent drama and excuses to mix things up at that point in the game (and I hated that part of the game- the game play was already not great and then they said now we're going to reset your skills so they're meaningless for several hours now).

They were used differently enough that they are unrelated entirely, and it was already known well before Tomb Raider came out that moment was an early moment in Tomb Raider.

#15 Edited by Grillbar (1818 posts) -

i dont get the point of this thread.

how pissed was square enix that someone made a game where a charecter got impaled and survived?

#16 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

I thought it was pretty obvious since one of the more memorable scenes from both games has the protagonist falling and getting impaled on exposed rebar. I realize they're probably not actually pissed but it does take some impact from the scene when the first thing that crosses your mind is "Hey! Tomb Raider."

Cause in Tomb Raider it did not really make any sense at all. And we all knew Tomb Raider was trying to push the "Shes a young defenseless" girl thing.

#17 Posted by killacam (1284 posts) -

never even made the connection. no reason to. I was way too shocked/scared/in awe. naughty dog did it better.

#18 Posted by CornBREDX (5127 posts) -

@hunkulese: It was the least impactful moment in the game for me so no it wasn't obvious at all =)

But thank you for clarifying.

I also never even thought of the fact Tomb Raider had done that. It's just another game that already did a story beat that they use in The Last of Us added to the list.

#19 Edited by DanK_ (58 posts) -

I've played through both games. Honestly, didn't even think about the comparison when I played. And now that you mention it? Don't really care.

But man, Winter was easily my favorite section of that game. Damn good stuff.

#20 Posted by Lexus2jz (92 posts) -

I doubt they were pissed but it's something you don't want to see so I would bet they were a little irked, maybe.

#21 Posted by StarvingGamer (8157 posts) -

I realize they're probably not actually pissed but it does take some impact from the scene when the first thing that crosses your mind is "Hey! Tomb Raider."

That never crossed my mind until this thread.

#22 Posted by Tonyyj (141 posts) -

@starvinggamer: This.

That fall from Tomb Raider had no impact whatsoever because it had no consequence, I had forgotten it even happened until this thread.

#23 Edited by Little_Socrates (5675 posts) -
#24 Posted by Hailinel (24427 posts) -

@hunkulese said:

I thought it was pretty obvious since one of the more memorable scenes from both games has the protagonist falling and getting impaled on exposed rebar. I realize they're probably not actually pissed but it does take some impact from the scene when the first thing that crosses your mind is "Hey! Tomb Raider."

Cause in Tomb Raider it did not really make any sense at all. And we all knew Tomb Raider was trying to push the "Shes a young defenseless" girl thing.

That's not what they were pushing at all. The game's angle had always been casting Lara as a normal person able to rise to the occasion and adapt when thrown into danger. She takes a hell of a beating over the course of the game, but it was never the idea to portray her as defenseless.

#25 Edited by Prestige (98 posts) -

Yeah, if I was at Naughty Dog, I'd be more upset that Telltale ate some their lunch when The Walking Dead was released last year and was praised to the moon for its narrative -- a narrative that in broad strokes was rather similar to The Last of Us.

On a side note, it's shockingly easy to accidentally trip and impale yourself on exposed rebar protruding from the ground. Be careful out there, people.

#26 Edited by RonGalaxy (3130 posts) -

No, because not at one moment did I fear for lara when it happened; I knew I'd be killing 1000's of people in no time and it would amount to nothing (for christ sakes, the game has regenerating health). I was legitimately shooken up when it happened to Joel. Playing as him in a daze, while bleeding out, stressed me the fuck out. Then having to play as Ellie for 30 to 40 minutes without knowing whether he made it or not? It was emotionally difficult to get through, and it's why the last of us is one of the best games ever mad

Also, you're acting like Tomb Raider has some sort of trademark on getting impaled. It isn't some un-ordinary thing that never happens.

Are we all forgetting Metal Gear Solid 3?

Online
#27 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Actually I was incredibly impressed they didn't just shrug it off and have him back on his feet like nothing happened.

Yet he can shrug off bullets and what not just fine. VIDEO GAMES.

Still, Tomb Raider was shit.

#28 Posted by ShadowConqueror (3050 posts) -

Considering it was done way better in The Last of Us, I'd say not at all.

#29 Edited by Castiel (2580 posts) -

Well it was completely pointless in Tomb Raider. Lara Croft is clearly a terminator so it didn't mean shit.

In TLOU I actually feared a little for Joel's life.

I'd say TLOU wins pretty big if you wanna make that comparison.

#30 Posted by Red12b (9084 posts) -

@make_me_mad said:

If you're referring to the "falling and getting impaled on a spike of rebar" bit, then I doubt that Naughty Dog was upset in the least. If anything, it makes Tomb Raider look (rightfully) ridiculous in comparison.

This.

yup

#31 Posted by coaxmetal (1608 posts) -

if you mean the [spoiler]rebar bit[/spoiler], when that happened It was super impactful, and reminded me about how tomb raider sucks at storytelling. So, if they even noticed it or cared about it at all, they certainly had nothing to worry about.

#32 Posted by PerryVandell (2103 posts) -

If you're referring to the part where Joel gets impaled with a piece of rebar, then my answer is "not at all"

TLOU's story is a proud achievement in storytelling and the whole rebar scene was just a small piece of that beautifully grim puzzle. The scenes of Lara getting horribly dismembered didn't have as much effect considering she always just walked it off and went on her little way. If anything, Naughty Dog demonstrated how to effectively wound a main character without it feeling like a cop out. I don't mean to shit on Tomb Raider as it's a fine game, but I doubt the game left anyone at Naughty Dog shivering in their boots.

#33 Posted by Humanity (9068 posts) -

Joel is on the brink of death and then 24 hours after getting antibiotics he's up and about killing doods as always so despite making it a BIT more realistic that was also just as gamey. It was more meaningful mainly because Last of Us is a much slower game so they could get away with that. Tomb Raider happens over the span of basically two days and Lara is tasked with rescuing a friend who is in dire circumstances and about to be barbecued - their plot didn't give them the liberty of having her out of commission for a month time. Their representation was also pretty good as they still give you control over your character except they slap on a bunch of neat effects to stimulate serious injury. In Last of Us you kind of just push up for that entire bit.

Also comparing a game which treats itself very seriously to an arcadey platformer is silly in of itself.

#34 Posted by Glottery (1228 posts) -

I'm a bit confused, as to why they should be pissed. Was that sequence (and I'm still not even sure which one we're talking about...) the high selling-point of TLOU or what? Were there reviews, where people said "That moment sure would've been better if I hadn't played TR earlier this year..." because if that was the case I could...maybe understand this? Odd threads ftw.

#35 Posted by Akeldama (4244 posts) -

Are we all forgetting Metal Gear Solid 3?

Never forget.

#36 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5820 posts) -

The Walking Dead did something similar last year.

#37 Posted by Spectreman (232 posts) -

Tomb Raider story is so dumb. Rich english teenager girl become a mass killer in two days.

#38 Posted by Yummylee (21547 posts) -
@humanity said:

Joel is on the brink of death and then 24 hours after getting antibiotics he's up and about killing doods as always so despite making it a BIT more realistic that was also just as gamey. It was more meaningful mainly because Last of Us is a much slower game so they could get away with that. Tomb Raider happens over the span of basically two days and Lara is tasked with rescuing a friend who is in dire circumstances and about to be barbecued - their plot didn't give them the liberty of having her out of commission for a month time. Their representation was also pretty good as they still give you control over your character except they slap on a bunch of neat effects to stimulate serious injury. In Last of Us you kind of just push up for that entire bit.

Also comparing a game which treats itself very seriously to an arcadey platformer is silly in of itself.

It's more meaningful because The Last of Us actually had a story and characters worth caring about, and because how the game successfully portrayed its world, I actually feared for Joel's life during that moment. Tomb Raider, from a narrative perspective, tried to also have this gritty survivalist sort of tale, but it all completely backfired because of that very 'arcadey platformer' gameplay they tied to it. Lara's 'arc' was a complete joke at that.

And still, Tomb Raider very clearly wanted to be taken seriously, but because of the narrative dissonance--and not to mention the terrible writing--it all completely fell flat, which includes the moment where she fell on the thing and hurt herself.

Online
#39 Posted by Humanity (9068 posts) -

@yummylee said:
@humanity said:

Joel is on the brink of death and then 24 hours after getting antibiotics he's up and about killing doods as always so despite making it a BIT more realistic that was also just as gamey. It was more meaningful mainly because Last of Us is a much slower game so they could get away with that. Tomb Raider happens over the span of basically two days and Lara is tasked with rescuing a friend who is in dire circumstances and about to be barbecued - their plot didn't give them the liberty of having her out of commission for a month time. Their representation was also pretty good as they still give you control over your character except they slap on a bunch of neat effects to stimulate serious injury. In Last of Us you kind of just push up for that entire bit.

Also comparing a game which treats itself very seriously to an arcadey platformer is silly in of itself.

It's more meaningful because The Last of Us actually had a story and characters worth caring about, and because how the game successfully portrayed its world, I actually feared for Joel's life during that moment. Tomb Raider, from a narrative perspective, tried to also have this gritty survivalist sort of tale, but it all completely backfired because of that very 'arcadey platformer' gameplay they tied to it. Lara's 'arc' was a complete joke at that.

And still, Tomb Raider very clearly wanted to be taken seriously, but because of the narrative dissonance--and not to mention the terrible writing--it all completely fell flat, which includes the moment where she fell on the thing and hurt herself.

Give me a break Yummy the writing was absolutely fine and hardly a complete joke. It was no Pulitzer prize winning material but you had everything you needed and the characters had proper stories behind them. Lara acted fine, her jeans weren't too tight, her cleavage wasn't too big, she wasn't too pretty. The whole game was excellent from start to finish and people tend to nitpick on small details. I really liked The Last of Us - there is no denying it's one of this generations greats, but in terms of pure gameplay Tomb Raider beats the shit out of it, and people might argue all they want but Last of Us simply wasn't THAT fun to actually play as time went on.

I also could have gone a few more years without having to hear "narrative dissonance" especially in tandem with Tomb Raider.

#40 Edited by Yummylee (21547 posts) -

@humanity: Well as per usual your opinions and everything you have to offer to the discussion is wrong blah blah derp... x)

But no, when put in comparison to The Last of Us, the writing is pretty damn poor. Lara's actress didn't do an especially great job, either, as she mostly just whined during a lot of it and she was kinda annoying. The supporting characters were all simply just a bunch of a generic archetypes, too; the wise old guy mentor; the kind and gentle Native American; the sassy black chick; the kind and soft spoken Asian; the salty Scotsman.

Plus the whole definition for 'narrative dissonance' was damn near created for this sort of game, so it's impossible not to bring it up alongside it. The cutscenes kept portraying the game to be full of grit and that Lara isn't enjoying herself during this whole escapade, and to also emphasise on how unaccustomed she is to the harsh wildlife. But this is a game that's full of set-pieces and eventually ghost samurai; Tomb Raider wanted it both ways, with this nail-biting survivalist story of a young woman growing into a warrior, but also a bombastic shooter where you massacre a small town's worth of people. You can't have Lara feel all guilty about killing some deer when she goes on to kill a whole horde of dudes soon after. The fact that she can regenerate her health completely clashes against the tone at that.

Also, considering how you proclaimed that The Last of Us has 'average' gameplay, I'm pretty surprised you'd be so fond of something like Tomb Raider. Don't get me wrong, it plays well and is pretty fun, but it's just another third-person shooter with your usual assortment of weapons. The Last of Us on the other hand is a significantly more satisfying and ultimately more gratifying game to play, again because of the ammo scarcity and the loud gun effects. The shooting in Tomb Raider by comparison feels like you're using toys.

The Last of Us also isn't necessarily intended to be fun, either. It's meant to be a, somewhat, harrowing and sometimes even exhausting game. I enjoyed the gameplay mind, but it's specifically because of the satisfaction of overcoming the odds despite limited resources. Though I do think The Last of Us has just a bit too much combat, I frankly thought the same way about Tomb Raider, and both games suffered from ''suddenly, a group of Hunters/Cultists arrived'' during the story.

Online
#41 Edited by owlmassive (67 posts) -

I thought it was about the part where David thinks Ellie is special and the way he touches her hand... I also thought the character of David was the best one in last of us after Ellie and Joel

#42 Posted by RVonE (4634 posts) -

Remember when Dante was impaled by his own sword in the first Devil May Cry? I wonder how pissed Crystal Dynamics was when they saw that.

#43 Edited by Humanity (9068 posts) -

@yummylee: Typically you are completely wrong in your own personal opinion!

It might be purely taste (good taste of course) but shooting in Tomb Raider felt a ton more satisfying than Last of Us which suffered from Naughty Dogs oldest game design nemesis - spongy enemies. In a game where ammo is scarce, and artificially scarce mind you because enemies SHOULD drop ammo when you kill them and not have their weapons magically disappear beyond your grasp, it should be one bullet to the head and a maximum of two bullets to the chest with weaker handguns. You end up shooting these hobo bandits a lot more than seems appropriate in a gritty realistic setting.

Also Tomb Raider having average shooter gameplay? Surely you must be joking here Yummy.. Tomb Raider has multiple elements to it's gameplay - there is some light stealth which is basically AS robust as the stealth seen in Last of Us. You have platforming and puzzle solving with actual physics, upgrading of equipment, upgrading of weapons all captured within beautiful set pieces on a basically open world island. All the upgrades you purchase are visibly present on your character model. As time goes on her clothing gets torn and she gets beat up. In comparison Joel and Ellie change their clothes a total of 3 times within A YEAR and despite getting shot at and crawling through shitty underground passages the clothes always stay the same - strange lack of detail considering how much polish went into the rest of the game.

Also don't EVEN about how Lara kills a lot of enemies. You may choose not to notice, but at the end of The Last of Us your kill count ranges in the hundreds. Sure the world is a sad desolate ruin of it's former self, but it's a little insane to think that Joel has murdered hundreds of people within a years time. Hundreds! Not to mention the fact that Ellie goes from happy go lucky naive girl that shot some BB guns to an expert marksman that kills nearly dozens of people herself with practically no remorse. Now we can all choose to think, oh man this is a tough world, but no way is a 14 year old girl going to undergo this transformation into a cold blooded killer that fast not to mention how proficient she is with a high powered hunting rifle thats almost as tall as she is. She doesn't even try to say stuff like "stay back.. please" she is a cold blooder murderer and often mutters "motherfucker" and whatnot as she's killing people - if anything in that sense Ellie comes off as a complete psychopath.

Also HAH good one, the game isn't intended to be fun. Well sorry but most people play games to have fun so that's a really weak defense of how long in the tooth the combat gets by the end of the game.

So by now I'm sure you've seen how I'm completely right. Don't worry, one day your opinion will be finally correct (if it aligns with my own of course)

#44 Edited by Yummylee (21547 posts) -

@humanity:

It might be purely taste (good taste of course) but shooting in Tomb Raider felt a ton more satisfying than Last of Us which suffered from Naughty Dogs oldest game design nemesis - spongy enemies. In a game where ammo is scarce, and artificially scarce mind you because enemies SHOULD drop ammo when you kill them and not have their weapons magically disappear beyond your grasp, it should be one bullet to the head and a maximum of two bullets to the chest with weaker handguns. You end up shooting these hobo bandits a lot more than seems appropriate in a gritty realistic setting.

Enemies aren't bullet-spongey in The Last of Us. They take 3 shots to the body from a revolver, but a headshot is a one hit kill (besides against guys who wear helmets). Sure, that may mean you run out of ammo, but that's the point. The game wants you to invariably adapt and to be forced to use stealth, or hopefully have enough materials for a smoke bomb/molotov/nail bomb and set up a trap. Plus as the game goes on as you collect more and more weaponry, you're often given a lot more alternatives, and weapons like the hunting rifle and 'el diablo' kill enemies in one shot. And of course a close range shotgun blast will leave any man on the floor with his guts hanging out.

Also, enemies not dropping ammo is video-game-y, in that it's intentionally designed so you're not constantly finding extra ammo, but you can always just look at that as if the last time a Hunter shot at you before you killed him was their last bullet. Simple.

Also Tomb Raider having average shooter gameplay? Surely you must be joking here Yummy.. Tomb Raider has multiple elements to it's gameplay - there is some light stealth which is basically AS robust as the stealth seen in Last of Us. You have platforming and puzzle solving with actual physics, upgrading of equipment, upgrading of weapons all captured within beautiful set pieces on a basically open world island. All the upgrades you purchase are visibly present on your character model. As time goes on her clothing gets torn and she gets beat up. In comparison Joel and Ellie change their clothes a total of 3 times within A YEAR and despite getting shot at and crawling through shitty underground passages the clothes always stay the same - strange lack of detail considering how much polish went into the rest of the game.

I'm not joking. Again, it plays well and is pretty fun, but it's just another third-person shooter. Only you have a bow, but then what game doesn't in this age. The AI is most certainly not as robust as the stealth in The Last of Us as well. Stealth in Tomb Raider is extremely limited and often only there, like Uncharted, to give you a quick heads up before the shooting starts. The Last of Us is similar, only you can also eventually retreat back into stealth, whereas in Tomb Raider the enemies always know where you are once you're spotted.

There is platforming, correct, and even some puzzle solving. But while the platforming is a lot of fun (always a good sign while I prefer to hop everywhere than simply run), the puzzles were incredibly basic and all of the tombs took at most like 5 minutes to complete. Though that still beats the overuse of paddle and ladder 'puzzles' in The Last of Us. But then, given the sort of game it is, I wouldn't have expected The Last of Us to have a lot of actual puzzles anyway. Also, The Last of Us has upgradable stuff. Though tbh I actually felt that sorta aspect, like with the magical 'skill pills, was a bit out of place.

As for the clothing, perhaps you missed the part where it's the post-apocalypse?? I don't know why you would levy a complaint towards the fact that Joel only wears 4 different outfits across the bulk of the game past the prologue; I'm sure a change of outfit isn't exactly at the forefront of their mind, nor is there much to choose from at that. Also, both Joel and Ellie are both pretty muddy and messed up to begin with. Joel's default green shirt has tears and is torn here and there, so while it's true there's no outfit degradation, who cares? They both already look the part like they're face deep in Hell to begin with.

Also don't EVEN about how Lara kills a lot of enemies. You may choose not to notice, but at the end of The Last of Us your kill count ranges in the hundreds. Sure the world is a sad desolate ruin of it's former self, but it's a little insane to think that Joel has murdered hundreds of people within a years time. Hundreds! Not to mention the fact that Ellie goes from happy go lucky naive girl that shot some BB guns to an expert marksman that kills nearly dozens of people herself with practically no remorse. Now we can all choose to think, oh man this is a tough world, but no way is a 14 year old girl going to undergo this transformation into a cold blooded killer that fast not to mention how proficient she is with a high powered hunting rifle thats almost as tall as she is. She doesn't even try to say stuff like "stay back.. please" she is a cold blooder murderer and often mutters "motherfucker" and whatnot as she's killing people - if anything in that sense Ellie comes off as a complete psychopath.

I will and shall! Now I've already talked about this a fair bit in the past, but basically The Last of Us gets a pass because even before the story begins, Joel has already killed dozens of people. Sure, he's killed his fair share by the end of the game, and it is rather incredulous, but it no way even compares to a man like Joel doing such a deed to someone like Lara - a young pampered archeologist girl with no experience in real combat. As far as ''action game man kills hundreds'', Joel is undoubtedly one of the most believable of the lot given what sort of man he is.

Ellie's transformation also makes perfect sense. Her arc is both tragic and a little horrifying almost, to see her as just another 14 year old girl then learn both directly and indirectly from Joel until she eventually becomes the mass-murdering, remorseless killer that she ends the game as. You said yourself, the game spans a year, which I think is more than enough time for someone like Ellie to hone her skills with firearms by practising herself, and of course watching Joel. Plus she only becomes the playable mass-murderer once Joel's on his dead bed; her father figure and all that she basically has left in this world is on the brink of death, so damn right she's going to pick up that bow and go to town. Plus there's the fact that Ellie was born into this world and was raised by the Fireflys, so she had undoubtedly already witnessed plenty of violence from an early age. That's no doubt where she learn how to use her stiletto as well I'm sure.

And yes, Ellie borders on being a psychopath... what of it? Everybody in The Last of Us is a psychopath; it's damn near the only way to live in that world, so it's only natural for Ellie to instinctively evolve into a ruthless killer. She's a survivor, that's what important. I'm sure plenty of other 14 year olds perished, but Ellie isn't those other 14 year old girls. She's Ellie, and she was lucky enough (in a manner of speaking) to be surrounded by people like Marlene and Joel, because such influences no doubt aided in her transformation. And of course there's all of the loss she's been through, like watching her best friend die, and the guilt of knowing Tess also died to help Ellie reach the Firefly base, which bubbles those emotions that drive her to kill (to survive, which is the main distinction to make as to why she's not actually a total lunatic) all the more. Overall, I frankly found Ellie's arc to be as believable as they come.

But then none of this matters anyway because I'm right you're wrong nya nya ect xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD...

Online
#45 Edited by Yummylee (21547 posts) -

Also HAH good one, the game isn't intended to be fun. Well sorry but most people play games to have fun so that's a really weak defense of how long in the tooth the combat gets by the end of the game.

And finally, citing that all games have to be 'fun' is frankly a really poor perspective to have and limits what games in general can do. The Last of Us isn't a fun game, no, but that doesn't mean it's not engaging. And the combat only added to living through the exhaustive travels of Joel and Ellie, and allowed you to further inhabit the role of Joel and what he's going through.

Online
#46 Posted by Humanity (9068 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@humanity:

Also, enemies not dropping ammo is video-game-y, in that it's intentionally designed so you're not constantly finding extra ammo..

The AI is most certainly not as robust as the stealth in The Last of Us..

Though that still beats the overuse of paddle and ladder 'puzzles' in The Last of Us, though..

Also, The Last of Us has upgradable stuff. Though tbh I actually felt that sorta aspect, like with the magical 'skill pills, was a bit out of place.

so while it's true there's no outfit degradation, who cares?

Sure, he's killed his fair share by the end of the game, and it is rather incredulous..

just another 14 year old girl then learn both directly and indirectly from Joel until she eventually becomes the mass-murdering, remorseless killer that she ends the game as

And yes, Ellie borders on being a psychopath... what of it?

Hmm a lot of excuses and half truths in there, usually the tactic of someone who knows in their heart they are wrong.

#47 Edited by Yummylee (21547 posts) -

@humanity: No, that's just you cherry picking sentences without any of my justifications or explanations as to why many of what you would consider flaws aren't flaws, or at the very least aren't that big of a deal. But whatever, if all I am to expect is a lot of ''I'm wrong'', then I guess it's time I move on from this discussion.

Online
#48 Edited by Humanity (9068 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@humanity: No, that's just you cherry picking sentences without any of my justifications or explanations as to why many of what you would consider flaws aren't flaws, or at the very least aren't that big of a deal. But whatever, if all I am to expect is a lot of ''I'm wrong'', then I guess it's time I move on from this discussion.

But Yummy I've went in depth multiple times already showcasing exactly why I am right. If you cannot gleam reason from my many valid points then I agree it is best for you to move on. As they say, sometimes ignorance is bliss.

#49 Edited by lusence (345 posts) -

No, because not at one moment did I fear for lara when it happened; I knew I'd be killing 1000's of people in no time and it would amount to nothing (for christ sakes, the game has regenerating health). I was legitimately shooken up when it happened to Joel. Playing as him in a daze, while bleeding out, stressed me the fuck out. Then having to play as Ellie for 30 to 40 minutes without knowing whether he made it or not? It was emotionally difficult to get through, and it's why the last of us is one of the best games ever mad

Also, you're acting like Tomb Raider has some sort of trademark on getting impaled. It isn't some un-ordinary thing that never happens.

Are we all forgetting Metal Gear Solid 3?

exactly. it came as such a shock in TLOU. And knowing that this could mean the end of the game or just the end of Joel was pretty much the hanging point. In tomb raider it was just at the start so you where not really worried about her dieing from this or it being the end of the game. Just added to the story.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.