@yummylee: Yes.. once again we clash. Granted I haven't finished it but I'm at the town with booby traps and were going after the battery. By this point I assume I've seen the bulk of what the gameplay will be like. The shooting is simply not very good but I understand there is a narrative reason for that. Ok, make it wobbly, make it more "realistic" but then don't make enemies take multiple shots to the chest to kill. It is pretty difficult to get headshots, especially when you're swarmed by 3-4 enemies at once. This makes the gunplay seem to have no "kick" as you said. When I got a revolver I assumed it would be this powerful hand cannon with a slow reload, but it seems to be just as ditzy as the 9mm. Melee combat feels awkward and simplistic as I just mash on square and watch Joel wail on my opponent. The way he will smash enemies into walls and such when you're near them is a neat touch but it all feels very hands off. Also one hit kill enemies are cheap and break up the flow of gameplay. By now Clickers have become a source of dread for me, but not because I'm genuinely frightened of them but rather because they're such a chore to get around.

I like the story, and the voice acting is top notch. Maybe I've played too many post apocalyptic games this generation but having to traverse through these broken down husks doesn't do anything for me anymore. Everything is fucked up and broken, time to move a garbage can over to get up to this ledge, another room with broken desks. I don't know what it is. I was really excited for this game after seeing all the trailers but apart from the great VO I'm just not feeling anything. The gameplay is really simplistic and so far it's just boiled down to an often times tedious crouch-marathon through "puzzle ruins" except unlike games like Uncharted, Enslaved or Tomb Raider there is no tension in the traversal. Since this game is grounded a lot more in reality the act of making your way from point A to B is oftentimes quite mundane.

I'm glad you're enjoying it (enjoyed it) and I wish I could feel likewise but unfortunately I just don't.

The melee isn't the draw, though, it's meant to be a last-resort sorta deal considering that it's rare that you also won't get hurt yourself when getting involved in a scuffle; plus you occasionally have to counter with triangle if an enemy has his own melee weapon. I don't see what you mean with ''realism and games doesn't mix'', though. The way you aim your weapons, while a little more difficult than what we're used to, still works so as long as you take your time. Not to mention if you also invest in the decreased weapon-sway abilities.

Also, I always knew when I was going to be spotted when in the middle of stealth. With the human enemies, there's a noise that'll grow louder if you're in the enemies sight (kinda video-game-y, but eh, it's useful all the same). With stuff like the runners, it's pretty much the same deal, but you also need to move all the slower because of their heightened sense of hearing. And of course it should go without saying that you make liberal use of Joel's... super-listening power or whatever to keep an eye on where everything is.

As for ammo, well, I played it on hard mode and the only times that I was ever stuffed with ammo was when the game gives it to you, and that's often because you're going to need it because it's a mandatory action-sequence.

@ares42: The melee isn't the draw, though, it's meant to be a last-resort sorta deal considering that it's rare that you also won't get hurt yourself when getting involved in a scuffle; plus you occasionally have to counter with triangle if an enemy has his own melee weapon. I don't see what you mean with ''realism and games doesn't mix'', though. The way you aim your weapons, while a little more difficult than what we're used to, still works so as long as you take your time. Not to mention if you also invest in the decreased weapon-sway abilities.

Also, I always knew when I was going to be spotted when in the middle of stealth. With the human enemies, there's a noise that'll grow louder if you're in the enemies sight (kinda video-game-y, but eh, it's useful all the same). With stuff like the runners, it's pretty much the same deal , though it's a lot harsher since as soon as you're in their sight, you're spotted. That and you also need to move all the slower because of their heightened sense of hearing. And of course it should go without saying that you make liberal use of Joel's... super-listening power or whatever to keep an eye on where everything is.

As for ammo, well, I played it on hard mode and the only times that I was ever stuffed with ammo was when the game gives it to you, and that's often because you're going to need it because it's a mandatory action-sequence.

edit: well, that was weird. thread kinda broke for a while there.

@humanity: When you're swarmed by enemies that's often your cue to run, though. The shooting is usually meant to service one-on-one encounters, like after you've taken one guy hostage and you're staring down another. Otherwise running away, maybe making a molotov if you have the necessary resources, and waiting for them to follow into your trap is your alternate solution. Or again just trying to lose their sight so you can try and stealth-kill a couple more. The clickers one hit kills will no doubt be annoying to some, but the game places you back in the game pretty quickly and checkpoints are often rather generous at that. Plus it's a perfect method in making you fear for whenever you, for example, turn around a corner to spot one slowly fidgeting towards you. If it kills you, yeah you'll find that annoying, but if you're able to shiv it if not just escape its clutches, then it's an incredibly satisfying victory. That's how I see things anyway.

Tbh I'm kinda glad that this game is turning out to be so divisive, because that's pretty much the calling card of this style of survival-horror-esque gameplay. It's a love it or hate it kinda deal. It's why I'm expecting that The Evil Within will inspire such dissenting opinions, considering it sounds like it's shaping up much like how The Last of Us plays. Stealth gameplay, limited ammo, setting up traps ect.

@yummylee: I don't think it's divisive I'm pretty sure (as usual) you're just wrong!

The gameplay is totally fine by me. I dig how messy it is, how uneasy it is to carefully shoot and how shit always hits the fan. It makes for some very entertaining encounter, which my girlfriend just love to watch as I play. Headshotting a guy with the bow and arrow, shiving another only to get spotted, forcing you to retreat behind cover. Then, pulling out a sugar bomb to stop the incoming bullets, leaving your foes in disarray. Then, rushing it with a brick toss at an unsuspecting adversary, grabbing him as he's dazed, killing another dude, disposing of your meat shield and rushing back to cover, only to toss a molotov in the face of two thugs, who burns in screams.

THIS is how you make an unpredictable survival game. You rarely stay behind cover, sucking your thumb and hoping for headshots. Because in a matter of seconds, someone will grab you from behind and force you into brutal melee. Sure, its hard to pull off headshots before you get the weapon sway perk, but who cares? It's so much more fun that way. Getting silent kills with the bow? Priceless too. Because each kill have to be earned.

I don't like the dodgy framerate, but since this game is quite slow-paced, I can forgive it a lot easier. Now I just wish for the inevitable '' PS4 '' revamp at 60 FPS in one year.

... >=/

I couldn't disagree more.

@yummylee: Next thing you'll tell me is that Remember Me isn't a really good game that was way underappreciated by gaming press ..

I give it an 8.8, you guys.

But a 10/10 NEVER means "game is perfect," or if it does the reviewer is either lying to themselves or playing Earthbound (the only piece of entertainment to achieve actual, true perfection).

I know it's a bit trite to say "reviews are opinions," but I feel like that's being trumpeted without realizing how TRUE it is. And yes, the perfect scores are "sweeping," because multiple people wrote those reviews and they don't (and shouldn't) account for one another.

The age of 10/10 being a true perfect game is over. Even as a game that its true value is 9/10, just having a new IP made in this day and age should sufficient to bump that to a ten.

@ninessc2 said:

Guess you need to get your eyes checked. You should look into that.

Translation: Waaaaaaaaaah I don't agree with you and I'm not slobbering over the game like others so I must be wrong.

I've pointed out legit problems with the game. As usual gaming media and gamers ignore them though because "oh hey isn't this game pretty wheeeeeee it's so linear but I don't care". One of the many reasons I can't take reviews seriously. You can't just glance over that stuff and disregard it.

There's something wrong here...

This is exactly how I feel about this game, so far, and I'm as far as you. Maybe with a little more emphasis on those Clickers. Pass/Fail enemy encounters are the worst. It feels super lazy on the part of Naughty Dog to include them IMO. Just make a 4-5 pack of Runners; they're just as deadly, and communicate to you that you should find a way around them, but can fight them head on if you have (and don't mind wasting) the supplies.

playing it today and yea its a BIT overated, i personally prefer bioshock infinite over this.

also i dunno i find it a bit more uncharted than i thought.

If a story is only alright just cause it went the zombie route, then that saddens me. We surely are going through an overdose of zombie stuff but the surrounding elements to that game/story are absolutely amazing.

Don't discount games or look to debunk the swell of positivity. You'll get bummed regardless. Embrace and delve properly into the game, every game of at least standard quality deserves that.

We need to wait a full week. By then, it'll be scorned at as 'mainstream drivel' as opposed to just being 'slightly overrated.'

I'm nearing the end, and my main problem with it is that I'm getting tired of the combat. It was really great in moderation, but now it's just combat scenario after combat scenario with tons of dudes. It's not even hard, it's just a grind. And it takes out of the realism. By now Joel and Ellie are basically just the bogstandard video game "I can take on 50 dudes and live"-characters, that I thought they were trying to avoid.

Rating it by just the opening isn't a good idea though, since It's by far the best part of the game (in my opinion). If I were to rate the game solely by its intro, then yeah, I would definitely give it a 10/10 - this game has one hell of a good first impression.

Who would have expected that the game reviewers shouting the citizen kane bullshit were actually the typical kind of people that easily get swept up by the hype? It's a great, well made, game with a story that so far (haven't finished it yet) has already been told many times before....at least this retelling is a good one.

and this.

Ugh, imagine if it was! The game is already having trouble maintaining 30 for large parts of the game. If the game wasn't already slow-paced the framerate issues would be a bigger problem because it would break the experience for me. 60 frames would be fucking glorious.

No. This is a silly thing to say. Forget about the video game, I reject quoted statement on principle.

Why? Is it groundbreaking in something like last year's Spec Ops The Line did about violence in games, the hero fantasy, and the examination of military shooters? Haven't played the game or have a PS3 at the moment, so I'm curious.

He does have a point, Ive noticed objects vanish and reappearing, ive watched parts of the map become pure white, then fill back in, can defo tell theres no AA on the game as objects look jaggy and specially noticeble on character models when they stand in certain lighting. Sometimes when you start a choke hold animation, the enemy vanishes then quickly appears in the "being choked" animation. In my recording on youtube, there is a part where the enemy walks right into Ellie, and im right next to Ellie, but he dosent register her existence, and as a result it acts like I am behind cover and he cant see me too. Its a good game, really good game, but it does seem like alot of people are sweeping those things under the rug and makes everyone like "Yay, best game ever!", yet the reviewers that spot these things as negatives like they are supposed to, get flamed and doubted.

You can tell the enemy can see you, because a kinda..wind sound kicks in, and it gets louder and louder until BOOM spotted.

I finished it today, it was pretty rad.

@assinass: its not a commentary on violence in gaming in the same way spec ops was, but it does do an admiarable job of making the player feel like shit after each kill.

Its aims are much higher than that. Not only does it completely subvert what is expected from naughty dog and the post apocolyptic genre, it also succeeds at discussing humanity and human choice in ways I have never seen before (in video games or otherwise).

Its the first piece of media/art that has made me feel physically anxious/ill.

The gameplay succeeds at making the player feel completely vulnerable (play it on hard). It isnt a fun game to play (in the same way a movie like the pianist is not fun to watch), but it still desverves to be played.

Its unclenchingly brutal and raw; each violent act has impact

If you like what spec ops did, I urge you to buy a ps3 and play this game. In my opinion, its worth more than the asking price

That was an unexpectedly aggressive reaction. The game is undoubtedly looking pretty dated at this point - not that I would place the blame on ND, but simply because the PS3 is only capable of so much. Given that I've been playing predominantly PC games for the past few years, the aliasing and muddy textures in TLoU are pretty noticeable to me - not to mention the abominable frame-rate.

I can't speak for the play experience personally but while watching a play-through I found it to be extremely boring to be honest, I didn't watch the whole game but up to a certain point I don't quite remember. Just to give you some perspective on myself, I watched Splinter Cell Conviction's play-through to the end days before it came out and still bought it day 1, so I care not for spoilers, the play-through made me want to play it, that's why I watch em since demos are seemingly on a hiatus. Overrated? Maybe, but what highly anticipated AAA game isn't these days?

After seing it through, I understand if some reviewers out there didn't think it was as great or 'perfect'.

I think the main problem with the game is that there is almost no sense of danger from the enemies. In that E3 trailer, it seemed like 3 guys in a hotel lobby were the ultimate threat but in the retail version it seems Joel can take out 10 dudes without any real risk. As long as you scavenge enough, you'll have enough health, ammo and molotovs to take on anything. It also doesn't help that sometimes the enemies are complete morons.

I respect naughty dog for not falling back on endless set pieces like some of their other famous franchises and instead sticking to more gameplay. I just found some of it to be not so good, and when compared to the story and emotional moments, it almost falls flat. If for whatever reason there is a 'Last of Us 2' then I hope it doesn't just turn into Uncharted. I want any sequel to refine the gameplay because I know that studio can really make the mechanics shine if given another shot.

I think its pretty awesome so far.

@vinny_says: I've started the game on hard from the beginning and anything more than three guys is terrifying, because I barely have enough recourses as it is, let alone encounters that'll just waste up even more of my recourses.

@sasnake: Referencing your post about the graphical anomalies: does Joel's backpack constantly fade in and out of focus for anyone else? It's not like every few minutes but literally every few seconds when I move the texture on his backpack seems to blur and then go back into focus.

It's also pretty clever of them to use in-engine for all their cutscenes but they're obviously using a higher resolution version with AA and AF bumped up. It is almost scary as the game comes out of a cutscene and into gameplay and the AA goes from x16 to x2.

Sounds like what I Am Alive did or what State of Decay does, maybe it might not feel as new to me. Well, glad to see your liked it so much.

Honestly it was like that from the get go.

"Look out a bunch of infected/clickers"

*five minutes later*

lulz all dead. ZOMG so dangerous.

I will say, at the very least, I'm enjoying it more then Uncharted. Then again that's not really saying much.

People giving the game a 10 doesn't mean that it's perfect. I would personally give the game a 10 despite some gripes because I had to really look for them. The whole winter section was some of the best pacing I have seen in any game this generation and they somehow keep going with more amazing moments in the Spring. I do feel that the game is slow to start (although the prologue is amazing) but once you near the end of Summer, the game is on a whole other level of pacing and storytelling than most games out there. I think the end of Summer sets a tone which the rest of the game follows until the end

I think a lot of the criticisms are justified. But I am perplexed that people would actually pass comment on how entertaining or well made a game is after they watched the ending online, or watched a lets play. Come on. You're not exactly endearing yourself as someone whose opinions are worth subscribing to. Just seems like you're going out of your way to scrounge an excuse to hop on the bandwagon. I wouldn't read the lyrics from an album online and then pass comment on how bad it is.

I also think to write the story off as average or worse is a pretty huge leap, but I guess it is subjective. But if you're argument is "why would they do this just for a couple of guns" I don't think you were paying close enough attention or are far enough into the game to start writing it off.

So far, i love the characters and voice acting but the gameplay is kinda awkward feeling. I just started though, maybe it'll pick up when i start fighting infected, but i just ran through a group of guards and I felt like it was best just to slug it out instead of shoot or go stealth.

Having just finished the game, I don't think it's overrated at all.

I'd give it somewhere between a 9.5 and 10/10. (for reference, some of my other 10/10 games would be Mass Effect 2, Uncharted 2, Persona 4 Golden and few others - but certainly not many).

I loved it - and I totally agree with both the lower scored reviews (to a lesser extent, of course, but the game does have its failings), and certainly the higher end of the reviews.

Probably because that was their job and way of sustaining themselves? You know, being smugglers and all.

Superfluous checkpoints would break the immersion. Screwups are not meant to be forgiven. That's the nature of the game.

And I don't know why people have to bring up the number that reviewers scored it. Who cares? It doesn't need to be perfect from your perspective to still be a good game. Trivial nitpicks don't make it average.

I'm in New game+ survivor diffuculty and that shi*t is tense.. too bad that mode is not unlocked from the start,would be amazing to had played it not knowing the layout of the maps. Best game this year for me atleast 9.5 /10

Divisive opinions, must mean it's a good game.

@ares42 said:

I think this mentality is really bizarre; a lot of people use it. What, would mashing square and sometimes triangle be better?

Arkham was excellent combat and constantly cited and borrowed from these days, but it was at its core also just mashing square, in different directions. And sometimes pressing triangle when you see a prompt.

It's not about what buttons you're pressing, it's about the tension. That one opponent is super dangerous and if you don't get rid of him quick he can end you pretty fast. You spend so much time hiding in that game and trying to avoid getting seen that when you do go for melee, it's intense and stressful.

And just try just mashing square at dudes playing as Ellie and see how long you last. There's more going on here, it's just higher level design choices that make it interesting and a cool experience to play. Who cares what buttons you're pressing.

Jesus Christ lol...well I guess that's your opinion and I can't fault you for it.

But you're totally wrong.

@gottem_guiz123: Well argued sir, good show. U R RONG is a tough argument to beat.

anymore it seems to be a sign of something worth playing at the very least