Makes me sad this game is being dismissed.

#1 Posted by kishinfoulux (2255 posts) -

By the Bombcast that is. The way they talk about it is "eh...maybe I'll try it another time". Sounds like they won't even consider it for GOTY. Not saying it is or isn't but I don't feel like it's getting a fair shake.

#2 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

Well, there's not much you can really do if you're tired of the Zelda formula.

#3 Posted by neoepoch (1293 posts) -

Well, I'd say it is my favorite since Wind Waker and actually takes the formula in interesting directions. Yea there are dungeons and bosses and a sword, but the stuff in between and even the end game backtracking stuff is more entertaining than it has been in the past.

#4 Posted by BrockNRolla (1702 posts) -

It may be a great game. Doesn't necessarily mean its a "game of the year."

#5 Posted by BonOrbitz (2173 posts) -

I've heard that it breaks the Zelda formula, so I'm looking forward to playing it. Too bad a little game called Skyrim is taking up all of my time.

#6 Edited by Marz (5643 posts) -

I think over the years these guys know what a Zelda game is, and after playing around 35 hours myself, other than Motion Controls this pretty much a similar Zelda experience that past games bring you.  There's a bit better storytelling in this game but nothing groundbreaking, ( i personally found backtracking through the three main areas boring ).

#7 Posted by Jams (2959 posts) -

@kishinfoulux:

I think the whole point of a game of the year is the vote for games that get you excited and get you talking non stop about said game. Just like when Skyrim came out. People couldn't stop talking about it with enthusiasm. Skyward Sword just didn't get people excited like Skyrim or Saints Row the Third did/does.

#8 Posted by usgrovers (166 posts) -

Well, it isn't on the Xbox

. . .

Seriously though, Skyward Sword seems to have flown a bit under the radar everywhere. I consider myself a Zelda fan, but most of my energy has been involved with Skyrim and other games at this time. I suppose there's something to said for a [mostly] known quantity breeding tepid response.

#9 Posted by Jayzilla (2555 posts) -

I think older Zelda games were trendsetters in their time. Now they aren't really. Games like Skyrim, Demons Souls and that ilk are the trendsetters. When Nintendo does things like Super Mario Galaxy 2 they get props for it. Zelda isn't really the cutting edge franchise it used to be.

#10 Posted by Mesoian (1572 posts) -

@kishinfoulux said:

By the Bombcast that is. The way they talk about it is "eh...maybe I'll try it another time". Sounds like they won't even consider it for GOTY. Not saying it is or isn't but I don't feel like it's getting a fair shake.

I don't think it's being dismissed, but IS another game released amongst a slew of excellent games. And honestly, I don't really blame them for putting it on the backburner.

Though just between you and me, I wouldn't really consider it for game of the year either. There's a LOT better out there. Similar to uncharted 3 being hurt by Batman:AC coming out shortly before it, Skyward is REALLY hurt by Skyrim coming out a few weeks prior.

#11 Posted by Shadow (4977 posts) -

I've been playing this game and loving the hell out of it...except...how was I supposed to know to stab a blob of water? What the fuck, game?

#12 Posted by oraknabo (1453 posts) -

The saddest thing is the assumption by everyone is that it's just more of the same old "Zelda Formula". Yes, it's a Zelda game with Link and Zelda and basically Hyrule, but it does try a bunch of new things with those elements. One thing I'm really interested in is how a lot of things from the sort of marginal "sequel" games have been incorporated. There's the hub town from Majora's Mask, the "return to a main dungeon to go deeper" thing from Phantom Hourglass and an enemy that seems related to Vaati from Minish Cap. Tis isn't even a game With Ganon or Gannondorf and Zelda isn't even kidnapped.

#13 Posted by SlightConfuse (3963 posts) -

considering that they left the game in the office im sure someone else will play it now

#14 Edited by mac_n_nina (272 posts) -

Honestly, If I wasn't such a huge Zelda fan (the only other franchise I cherish as much is GTA) and a Nintendo fan since day one I probably wouldn't bother beating the game.

I'm somewhat enjoying the game, but at this point I feel like I'm playing just to finish it. I've got half of this temple left and then the last temple.

The game is more of a DS Zelda and not a console Zelda by that I mean that it's all puzzles with no exploration. To me Zelda has always been a perfect balance of the two, but in this game every place is just one big dungeon and everything is contained in that dungeon and it's usually on your path. At max you have to go revisit the dungeon once after you get a certain item to get a chest or goddess cube or what not.

The story is very flat in the beginning and doesn't pick up until about half way through the game. It's a prequel to all Zelda's and basically explains why Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are the chosen ones.

The motion controls are fantastic yet still not perfect. I got tired of them pretty fast and would have much rather preferred to use a GCube controller.

Then there is the graphics. I have my Wii hooked up through component cables to an HD CRT Sony TV, it's the ideal TV for Wii that I specifically bought for my Wii because Wii looks like shit on my 1080p Bravia, and at times it's the best looking Wii game, but also at times it's one of the worst looking Wii games.

The game is way too easy. I have died once the entire game because of my stupidity not because the game was challenging. Not to mention you're guide Fi, who is annoying as fuck, tells you exactly where to go and what to do.

Finally, there is the art style. Yes the art style is nice, however I never found the brighter colors to suit a Zelda game. I mean Zelda games set up a setting where the whole land is swallowed by darkness and evil and Link is the only person who can save the land so the whole overly bright colors thing really detracts from the sense of despair they are trying to create as do the NPCs who don't even acknowledge wtf is happening. I would rather the game have the darker more realistic graphics of OoT, I'd even settle for TP style.

I can easily say while there were some enjoyable parts to the game I didn't find any memorable parts and did not like the whole PuzZelda vibe. If I wanted to solves puzzles all damn day I'd go play DS. Not to mention that I was expecting this to be on par if not better than OoT since all of the fanboys hyped it up as being a 10/10 as did many review sites. I honestly feel like the only people who can give this game a 10/10 are those fanboy gay babies who's DS are strapped to their wrists at all times and that's all they play. Also you can't criticize the game anywhere because all of them crawl out of the cracks and pointlessly argue with you. I love being a Nintendo fan, but I just can't stand their fanboys.

OoT>WW>TP>MM>SS

#15 Posted by thechronodarkness (294 posts) -

Well..if you worried about game of the year, this game isn't it. Its a good game, with many flaws, that most people can ignore somehow. If there are busted mechanics....theres no way it could win a goty. Hell, theres even a glitch that prevents you from going any further in the game.

Great game, but FAR from 10/10 or 5/5. A 4/5, sure

#16 Posted by IAmNotBatman (627 posts) -

@Shadow: The only bit I had trouble with was the first dungeon... with the eye, that took me aaaaaaaaaaaages to work out even if it was simple.

#17 Posted by oatz (1103 posts) -

Zelda is so fucking overdone, I'm not surprised.

#18 Posted by Relys (984 posts) -

@IAmNotBatman said:

@Shadow: The only bit I had trouble with was the first dungeon... with the eye, that took me aaaaaaaaaaaages to work out even if it was simple.

Same, the game gave you no context of what they expected you to do with the motion controls. It was a terrible turnoff and a bad start to the game.

#19 Posted by DeF (4808 posts) -

@Relys said:

@IAmNotBatman said:

@Shadow: The only bit I had trouble with was the first dungeon... with the eye, that took me aaaaaaaaaaaages to work out even if it was simple.

Same, the game gave you no context of what they expected you to do with the motion controls. It was a terrible turnoff and a bad start to the game.

wow did you go on a media blackout for the game or did you just happen to miss the E3 2010 demo where they showed off the eye puzzle? (it was also in the E3 2011 demo)

Online
#20 Posted by zityz (2360 posts) -

It's an Ok game but no where close to being a goty. Maybe Best Wii game of the year? but not overall. The areas are too tedious and there is way too much filler in the game and things you shouldn't ever be doing in a game this day and age ( I have to climb that fucking mountain...AGAIN? for the 3rd fucking ti- fine sure nintendo let's have it your way) It's not the worst zelda game, but it's not the best. Good story though.

#21 Posted by WarlockEngineerMoreDakka (432 posts) -

@thechronodarkness said:

Its a good game, with many flaws, that most people can ignore somehow.

Yeah, which reminds me of several other GOTY contenders of the past and present... (*cough* Half-life 2 *cough*)

.... I'm going off topic with that though. :P

Skyward Sword's current situation really just seems to be a case of Skyrim stealing most, if not all of its thunder.

Yes- Skyrim may apply to the top quote more than Skyward Sword can, but Skyrim is arguably the more unique game of the two. (Unique in that it is of a size that hardly any other developers even think of trying to match- not because it's actually innovative, which it doesn't need to be.)

Skyward Sword will certainly be getting Wii GOTY accolades though. :) (At least in america. In other places there are decent odds Xenoblade Chronicles will beat it out.)

#22 Posted by IAmNotBatman (627 posts) -

@DeF: I didn't watch any trailers or demos for the game :)

#23 Posted by punkxblaze (2957 posts) -

It'll be Wii GOTY. That's not exactly a vast and competitive field, though. What the fuck else came out on the Wii this year?

#24 Posted by RelentlessKnight (963 posts) -

says who.. how do you know that the GB crew will "dismiss" this year from GoTY awards? Seriously stop interpreting things

#25 Edited by sgjackson (528 posts) -

@mac_n_nina said:

Stuff

You're occasionally right on the money, and it's a shame you express yourself so immaturely. I'm going to elaborate further, because I've thought a lot about this game recently.

I think Zelda is at its best when it's rooted in exploration, and not puzzles. Think back to The Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time - it never really had much challenge in terms of execution, but it was an enthralling level because of atmosphere, design, and the feeling of openness. You walk inside and that weird ambient music starts to play and there's almost immediately this huge room with a bunch of different directions to go. It feels so abstract, yet full of life, and the rest of the game's dungeons are similarly atmospheric. Skyward Sword's dungeons largely fall short in this regard, and it's rooted in two primary issues - the fact that the game holds your hand far, far too much, and a shift in dungeon design priorities.

Skyward Sword's dungeon design is focused on contained puzzles. It's never hard to figure out where to go - Nintendo usually makes it pretty obvious, by overusing Fi or with the more subtle cutscene showing a hint - but once you get there, it's much harder to figure out what to do. This succeeds in getting rid of that feeling that the player isn't thinking like the designer, and getting stuck for a while. Remember the first key in The Forest Temple? I bet you didn't get it first. Same with missing the key in the center section of the Water Temple. Skyward Sword avoids that problem by making the dungeons less a tangled web to unweave, and more a Portal-esque sequence of puzzle rooms. It's more obvious early on, when dungeon designs are largely straight lines, but this design strategy continues throughout the whole game.

Going in this direction can be OK - it definitely feels more modern, and when executed well (Lanayru Mining Facility) it feels fantastic, and almost captures the feeling of old dungeons without the dated frustration. The problem is that the way Nintendo executed it makes the dungeons feel suffocating, and video-gamey - not abstract, just something to do. This is made much worse by Fi, who has a lovely habit of telling you things which were obvious right before she pops out. An example is found in the 5th dungeon - you come across a large door covered in barbed wire, similar to the many other doors of that nature you've seen earlier in the game. Fi, however, sees fit to inform you that you should probably figure out how to open the door. Her hints are rarely much more useful.

Although I have issues with the dungeon design in Skyward Sword, for the most part what is contained in them is solid, challenging, and enjoyable gameplay. I hold Nintendo to a very high standard in level design, and when they fall a bit short it's disappointing to me. The bigger issue with Skyward Sword has to do with the content outside of dungeons, mainly the fact that the world is so partitioned.

The game is split into 4 areas - the sky, and three areas on the surface. You revisit them regularly, which isn't much of a deal - Zelda games usually have plenty of backtracking. The problem is that they're too separated - the only way to travel between areas on the surface is to go into the sky. This leads to a world which feels unnatural, like you left the volcano world in a platformer and you're suddenly in an ice world. It doesn't help that the content that is contained in them is occasionally highly questionable. Why does Nintendo continue to feel the need to add sections into Zelda games where you explore ethereal versions of their world finding collectables? You do this around a half-dozen times in this game, and it's boring and frustrating every time, especially when they make you fight the swimming controls while doing so.

This game gets a lot right. Outside of a few minor nitpicks like swimming, the controls are largely a success, and they added some needed strategy to the combat. The art style is a wonderful mix of the realism fans desire and the bright, painterly colors Nintendo's always seemed to love. But Skyward Sword, and modern Zelda in general, sits in this weird point between its N64-era heyday and modern gaming. The last few games felt like wonderful 20 hour games in the body of a 40 hour experience, and Skyward Sword is no different. Once Nintendo figures out that less can be more, we might see something amazing out of Zelda again.

#26 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5806 posts) -

Who cares what they think.
 
It looks like a great game and you should enjoy it.

#27 Posted by Oni (2095 posts) -

@sgjackson: Great post, I've been thinking about the game and its critical reception as well. More than anything, playing through Skyward Sword felt like an obligation, a thing to do, more than any other Zelda game - and I've loved every console Zelda game since A Link to the Past. I think getting rid of the exploration is a huge part of that, in hindsight. When you can see exactly where you have to go and it's just a matter of getting there, every time, it feels like you're working off a checklist. The exploration is what makes Zelda fun more than the puzzles, absolutely. I love Ocarina's dungeons because the challenge is equal parts figuring out where you have to go and what you have to do. In SS, every room has its puzzle, you clear it and move on. The puzzles weren't particularly challenging. If anything, they were laborious.

Another big beef is that Skyloft is criminally underused. It could have been like an ocean in the clouds, like Wind Waker, where there was always something cool on the horizon to check out. In Skyloft, there's just fuck-all to do except collect treasure chests you unlocked on the ground and the occasional very dull fetch quest. No interesting side quests to speak of at all.

And then all the filler content with revisiting old zones time and time again. It just feels grindy. There's no connective tissue between the zones other than Skyloft as well, so the whole thing feels disjointed and game-y. The fact that there's no cohesion in the game at all is the biggest killer for me, along with the repetitive structure (going back to Skyloft and the same areas each time). It's just kind of... boring. It's a pretty boring game. I was really disappointed. Easily the weakest Zelda in a long time, DS games notwithstanding (don't care much for either of them, though I should play some more of Spirit Tracks, which is definitely better than the mediocre Phantom Hourglass).

All that said, I loved the story, even though it's literally at a dead stop through the entire second act of the game. The story and ending was all so great. I just wish the rest of the game didn't feel so incredibly tired.

#28 Posted by SonicFire (821 posts) -

@Cloudenvy said:

Well, there's not much you can really do if you're tired of the Zelda formula.

Pretty much this... Zelda at one time was my favorite thing ever...then Nintendo started making it over, and over, and over.. by twilight princess I just turned it off and said "no thank you." I have some interest in skyward sword, but at the end of the day, what's mostly changed is how you go from dungeon to dungeon, not the fact that you are stuck with dungeon, new gadget, dungeon, new gadget, or the same basic temples we've seen over and over.... not to mention the mind-numbingly annoying npcs

#29 Posted by sgjackson (528 posts) -

@Oni said:

@sgjackson: More than anything, playing through Skyward Sword felt like an obligation, a thing to do, more than any other Zelda game - and I've loved every console Zelda game since A Link to the Past.

If I had to TL;DR my post, it would say this (except with OoT instead of ALttP). If Skyward Sword wasn't a Zelda game, I would have put it down in the monotonous middle section.

#30 Edited by Taku128 (793 posts) -

I really don't understand the dismissal of Skyward Sword for being "more of the same" while at the same time celebrating games like Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Uncharted 3, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, Saint's Row The Third, and Assassin's Creed: Revelations. Yeah, this is the fifth 3D Zelda game, but between the release of the fourth (Twilight Princess) and fifth (Skyward Sword) there were six Call of Duty games. Zelda changes as much between releases as any other series, so I don't understand why it gets dumped on for being iterative when the same can be said about pretty much every other major release of this year.

#31 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Taku128 said:

I really don't understand the dismissal of Skyward Sword for being "more of the same" while at the same time celebrating games like Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Uncharted 3, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, Saint's Row The Third, and Assassin's Creed: Revelations. Yeah, this is the fifth 3D Zelda game, but between the release of the fourth (Twilight Princess) and fifth (Skyward Sword) there were six Call of Duty games. Zelda changes as much between releases as any other series, so I don't understand why it gets dumped on for being iterative when the same can be said about pretty much every other major release of this year.

Because they don't want to play another Zelda game, they do want to play more of these other games.

#32 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

It was just released at a bad time.

#33 Posted by Black_Rose (7785 posts) -

@Taku128 said:

I really don't understand the dismissal of Skyward Sword for being "more of the same" while at the same time celebrating games like Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Uncharted 3, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, Saint's Row The Third, and Assassin's Creed: Revelations. Yeah, this is the fifth 3D Zelda game, but between the release of the fourth (Twilight Princess) and fifth (Skyward Sword) there were six Call of Duty games. Zelda changes as much between releases as any other series, so I don't understand why it gets dumped on for being iterative when the same can be said about pretty much every other major release of this year.

Exactly, how much did Gears of War 3, Resistance 3, Assassin's Creed or Uncharted 3 changed between the new game and the last one? At least the main Zelda games are released every 4 or so years and they add as much new to the formula as those games do. At a point it just sort of becomes less about the games themselves and more about their general dislike for the Wii as a console.

#34 Posted by GlutenBob (143 posts) -

from the 2 1/2 - 3 hours that I have played...its rather boring. This coming from a huge Twilight Princess fan.

#35 Posted by ick_bop (110 posts) -

@Black_Rose:

None of those games have a super rigid structure like Zelda has had since it's inception, i.e., go to dungeon, find weapon, solve puzzles using said weapon, get a key, open door, find boss's weakness and attack x3. The way the game plays is different, but it's still mostly following a 25 year old formula.

#36 Posted by GlutenBob (143 posts) -

I take back my earlier statement. This game is brilliant. The gameplay is much better than Skyrim.

#37 Posted by DeF (4808 posts) -

@ick_bop said:

@Black_Rose:

None of those games have a super rigid structure like Zelda has had since it's inception, i.e., go to dungeon, find weapon, solve puzzles using said weapon, get a key, open door, find boss's weakness and attack x3. The way the game plays is different, but it's still mostly following a 25 year old formula.

they actually do: run through room "shoot that guy!"; cutscene; vehicle sequence; repeat. as for AC: run across/climb on rooftops; stab dudes in the face; listen to dudes talk then stab them in the face; climb huge building; equivalent of turret sequence; find key story dudes and stab them in the face; more cutscenes

you can reduce ALL games to a formula and most games in a series follow said formula. zelda gets a lot of flack because that formula is a lot older and the series has been around much longer. the ironic thing is that people complain that there is no change when there actually is a lot: different graphical styles (wind waker), new gameplay variations (twilight realm), different structure (majora's mask); different focus on exploration, puzzles (gameboy titles) ...

I think if zelda had come around only in 2004-5 and we'd have had 3-5 console games since then, people wouldn't mind it so much. The other franchises are all still kinda fresh and new and we're still in the mindset of "oh, cool another one of those" (mostly ...) when we think "ah Zelda .. I've been playing that for 20+ years now ... I want something new!" ..just because it's been with us for so long.

on a sidenote: Re: @Black_Rose: Resistance 3 was actually quite different from 1 and 2 with dynamic storytelling and well written story/characters for a change, the gameplay was also a lot more fun with there finally being use for all the weapons and re-introduction to the weapon wheel.

Online
#38 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

@Cloudenvy said:

Well, there's not much you can really do if you're tired of the Zelda formula.

There is. You can play Skyward Sword.

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