Disappointed by the end? (spoilers)

#1 Posted by carlos707 (28 posts) -

After looking through the end discussion topic I was surprised that no one seemed disappointed by the end.

I enjoyed the story itself very much but was disappointed that there weren't multiple endings. I figured the developers were waiting till the last episode to let the stories diverge; it seemed like your final party makeup was the beginning of that. Playing through the game, I got the impression that all your choices would affect whether Clem survived the last chapter or not. The game says multiple times "xxxx will remember that". But in the end, the player doesn't have any effect on Clem's fate, regardless of how she feels about you.

Also, when Ben died in episode 5 (for me) I realized the world is like the Final Destination movies. You can never escape death.

#2 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3782 posts) -

It's less about the destination and more about the journey. Your choices don't change many events, but they color how you experience it.

#3 Posted by The_Ruiner (1041 posts) -

I was pretty happy with it. Multiple endings would have been cool. But I'll never replay it anyway. My story is what it is and changing it with replays would lessen the impact for me.

#4 Posted by Zeik (2362 posts) -

They can't have Clem die if they're planning on bringing her back in season 2, which I think is pretty likely based on that ending.

Although even if that wasn't the case I don't think having Clem die as an option would necessarily be a good thing. Much like with Lee, making your choices directly affect whether these two characters live or die at the end would most likely change every choice up until that point that affected that outcome into "right" and "wrong" choices. This game has a done a great job of keeping your choices morally grey. Most people have a solid argument for why they chose what they did, regardless of what it was. But if those choices are suddenly deciding whether Clem lives or dies then I'm pretty sure 99% of the people who played this and got Clem killed are going to feel like they played it wrong, which would be a far more disappointing way to end the game. I may regret some of the choices I made over the course of the game, but I don't feel the need to go back and change it to get the "best ending".

#5 Posted by cannedstingray (387 posts) -

I get the feeling that, they will use the end of ep 5 as a jumping off point for season 2. If that is the case, it would be a ton more work to have a whole bunch of totally different starting points.

I found myself incredibly moved by the series as a whole, especially the last episode.

I have two daughters myself (they are both older than Clem) and being put in a helpless position, as well as being faced with saying goodbye, really fucking choked me up.

#6 Posted by mtcantor (947 posts) -

Dude, its The Walking Dead. Shit was never going to turn out well. It's always going to end the same way. Just like life.

#7 Posted by Zaccheus (1792 posts) -

I was happy with it. I thought it was pretty clear early on that your choices don't really effect anything major. I more of an illusion and I think it's very effective. By not actually branching all over the place they kept the narrative very solid all the way through while giving, actually forcing, you the feeling of agency in minor events.

I love'd the ending and it would be a bummer if everyone wouldn't experience it. I think it was handled so well with incredible style and restraint. The shot of Lee's head hitting the radiator, cut to black and the credits without music nor sound of any kind... Well done Telltale, well done.

#8 Posted by Kerned (1170 posts) -

I look at it this way: the story I experienced was amazing and moving and engaging, and I enjoyed every bit of it. The choices I made felt weighty and important, it doesn't matter if in the end they really weren't. It's irrelevant to me if everyone else's stories basically end up the same at the end. The way in which others experienced the game has no impact whatsoever on how I experienced it.

#9 Posted by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

You can't escape death in real life either...

#10 Posted by nohthink (1223 posts) -

I agree with you on certain things. I was not surprised by the fact that it did not have multiple endings. I thought the ending was great and it definitely moved me. With that said, I really did not like the way they presented your previous choices. It was just a guy whom you've never met and just laying it down all the choices you made. Yeah it affected him but he's not the character that I care about. So that was my disappointment. Still, amazing game, It is my game of the year, without a doubt

#11 Posted by Xeirus (1297 posts) -

@The_Ruiner said:

I was pretty happy with it. Multiple endings would have been cool. But I'll never replay it anyway. My story is what it is and changing it with replays would lessen the impact for me.

Exactly how I feel.

I don't see what's disappointing about the ending anyway, I think it has more to do with that specific players inability to attach to the characters through the entire game and less about just the ending itself. I'm sorry for the people who couldn't get into it, for me, it was one of the most moving moments in any game to date.

#12 Posted by Animasta (14673 posts) -

OP wasn't saying there needed to be a happy ending, merely different ones; ones where Clem might not have survived, for instance, or something similar (maybe she doesn't save you by pulling you into that garage or w/e and you just get eaten)

#13 Edited by Chontamenti (153 posts) -

I was just disappointed of the length of the last episode, and that after all that praise in the last few weeks "that the last episode is a HUGE thing" it was over in two hours and had not a huge impact for me after all!

Maybe something is wrong with me.. I don't know. I enjoyed the game for what it was, and yes I enjoyed the fact that I could decide that Ben dies!!!!

But I never felt this involvement of "holy shit this decisions are all horrible!" .. so I let Lee turn, and didn't even get a "Zombie-Lee"-Image at the End! =-/

#14 Edited by Zeik (2362 posts) -

Even if there wasn't a happy ending, Clem dying would undeniably be a worse ending, and I don't think there's any way they could make an ending where she dies not feel like you screwed up and got the "bad" ending. If you're going to do multiple endings in a game like this you have to approach it in a way where they all seem equally valid, not just make a bunch of bad endings and one "good" ending.

They actually kind of did that with the "shoot" or "don't shoot" Lee aspect. Sure, it didn't have a drastic effect on what actually happened in the ending, but there was a pretty profound difference in what it meant to the story, and neither choice was necessarily better or worse, it was entirely based on the player's feelings on the matter. If they were ever going to do more drastic alternate endings it would have be something that falls in line with that concept, not just whether Clem or Lee lives or dies.

#15 Posted by ApeGantz (217 posts) -

I'll likely never play it for a few months but is the world REALLY like Final Destination? So I'm guessing Christe and Omid couldn't die(Not counting Lily) right?

As for the people remembering things, I cut that straight off in the middle of ep 2 because I realized that it was affecting how I would engage with that person in the future. I just wanted to go through the game with as less hints as possible, bad enough I had the little circles.

All in all, having multiple endings may have been the best idea if TT were not planning on going back to those characters(which I hope they don't).

#16 Edited by mellotronrules (1183 posts) -

@carlos707 said:

I enjoyed the story itself very much but was disappointed that there weren't multiple endings. I figured the developers were waiting till the last episode to let the stories diverge; it seemed like your final party makeup was the beginning of that. Playing through the game, I got the impression that all your choices would affect whether Clem survived the last chapter or not. The game says multiple times "xxxx will remember that". But in the end, the player doesn't have any effect on Clem's fate, regardless of how she feels about you.

Also, when Ben died in episode 5 (for me) I realized the world is like the Final Destination movies. You can never escape death.

yeah- it would have been cool if there were multiple, divergent endings. but as it is today, i'm completely satisfied with the ending they wrote.

the problem is (in my opinion) a combination of practical and philosophical concerns. the practical being- the man-hours and budget required for that sort of thing would be enormous. not impossible, but overwhelmingly daunting, ESPECIALLY if you consider the prospect of a subsequent season- if everyone ended in different places, imagine how large that choice-matrix would be by the end of season 2. and then the philosophical- much like my thoughts on mass effect 3, i'm 100% ok with a game giving a specific ending. i don't mind being limited to the author's version of the ending, because i'm a big proponent authors retaining the sole licence/ownership of their work. this makes for good, bad, and wholly middle-of-the-road endings across a variety of media- but i'm alright with that. they don't owe me anything, and i do like to have a sense of the author's 'voice' in the telling.

also- there is SOMETHING to be said for linear experiences- it's the essence of traditional storytelling. likewise there's something to be said of emergent storytelling (a la skyrim)- both work for me, but they're scratching different itches.

#17 Posted by mellotronrules (1183 posts) -

@carlos707 said:

Also, when Ben died in episode 5 (for me) I realized the world is like the Final Destination movies. You can never escape death.

hah- i know i'm taking you slightly out of context, but death and taxes man. nobody gets out alive. 'walking dead' just makes it pervasive.

#18 Posted by Pezen (1594 posts) -

I know it's not really The Walking Dead way, but had Clementine met up with Christa and Omid instead of ending abruptly on a cliffhanger I probably would have enjoyed it more. I think Lee biting the dust was alright but I never quite felt the overarching story really got a proper resolution. But then, I've grown increasingly tired of modern games approach to "endings" and how "happy conclusion" seems rare at best. In a story drenched in sorrow, there needs to be some rays of light.

But at the same time, it is to the credit of the writing that I care enough about the characters that I wish them well.

#19 Posted by familyphotoshoot (653 posts) -

You seem to be forgetting that the title "The Walking Dead" doesn't refer to the zombies.

#20 Posted by Flappy (2197 posts) -

Nah, I was totally fine with the ending of this game. Surprisingly enough, I found myself caring about a lot of the characters and the last couple of scenes involving Lee and Clem were pulling on a couple of heartstrings. It didn't help that I was still reeling from the shit that Lilly pulled in Episode 3. Poor Carley...

#21 Posted by jozzy (2042 posts) -

@mellotronrules said:

@carlos707 said:

I enjoyed the story itself very much but was disappointed that there weren't multiple endings. I figured the developers were waiting till the last episode to let the stories diverge; it seemed like your final party makeup was the beginning of that. Playing through the game, I got the impression that all your choices would affect whether Clem survived the last chapter or not. The game says multiple times "xxxx will remember that". But in the end, the player doesn't have any effect on Clem's fate, regardless of how she feels about you.

Also, when Ben died in episode 5 (for me) I realized the world is like the Final Destination movies. You can never escape death.

yeah- it would have been cool if there were multiple, divergent endings. but as it is today, i'm completely satisfied with the ending they wrote.

the problem is (in my opinion) a combination of practical and philosophical concerns. the practical being- the man-hours and budget required for that sort of thing would be enormous. not impossible, but overwhelmingly daunting, ESPECIALLY if you consider the prospect of a subsequent season- if everyone ended in different places, imagine how large that choice-matrix would be by the end of season 2. and then the philosophical- much like my thoughts on mass effect 3, i'm 100% ok with a game giving a specific ending. i don't mind being limited to the author's version of the ending, because i'm a big proponent authors retaining the sole licence/ownership of their work. this makes for good, bad, and wholly middle-of-the-road endings across a variety of media- but i'm alright with that. they don't owe me anything, and i do like to have a sense of the author's 'voice' in the telling.

also- there is SOMETHING to be said for linear experiences- it's the essence of traditional storytelling. likewise there's something to be said of emergent storytelling (a la skyrim)- both work for me, but they're scratching different itches.

Multiple awesome endings would have been cool, but like you said I rather have one really good ending than multiple meh ones. I was actually slightly affraid they would screw it up Mass Effect 3 style.

#22 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5816 posts) -

I don't like games with multiple endings, I'd rather have one strong ending. And this game's ending was really strong. I loved it.

#23 Posted by sirdesmond (1235 posts) -

@FancySoapsMan said:

I don't like games with multiple endings, I'd rather have one strong ending. And this game's ending was really strong. I loved it.

I agree. I think a lot of people (and Telltale may have contributed to this) were a bit put off by the illusion of choices and differences you can make. I always took them to be what it says in the warning at the beginning of each episode: ways to tailor the story specifically to you. Tailor it, not dramatically change it.

That said, I was really happy with the ending. Loved the final scene with Clementine (although I was sad there wasn't a fatherly "I love you" option for the final line) and was intrigued by the post-credits bit. I thought for sure it was Omid and Krista until the ominous BUM noise but that may just be intended to throw me off. Either way, Clem made it out of the city which is good.

#24 Posted by Mrsignerman44 (1100 posts) -

@Wrighteous86 said:

It's less about the destination and more about the journey. Your choices don't change many events, but they color how you experience it.

This, best ending in a video game regardless of my ability to decide how it ends.

#25 Posted by frankfartmouth (1016 posts) -

I wouldn't care if they had multiple endings as long as they were all as good as that one. But they probably wouldn't be. I'm glad I got to experience the ending as it was. I'm not really concerned that the whole thing was on rails to some extent.

#26 Posted by Nightriff (4990 posts) -

By episode 3 I felt my choices really didn't matter except for cues here and there. They made it feel like it was a personal journey but really everyone had the someone. Nothing wrong with that by any means but if I really had a choice I would've dumped Kenny during episode 2 and stuck with Lily. Is the ending scene with Clem in a field different depending on what you tell her? I assume no but there might be a chance.

#27 Posted by civid (412 posts) -

Man that scene where the copzombie got loose from his handcuffs and attacked Clem freaked me the fuck out. I can't imagine how heartbreaking it must be if you actually failed that scenario. Also, while I REALLY enjoyed the episode, I can't believe they killed of Lee, in my opinion one of the best protagonists in the entertainment media as a whole. The balls on Telltale...

...And was I the only one who was reminded of the microwave scene in MGS4 when Clem and Lee was shambling down the street filled with zombies?

#28 Posted by civid (412 posts) -

@Nightriff said:

By episode 3 I felt my choices really didn't matter except for cues here and there. They made it feel like it was a personal journey but really everyone had the someone. Nothing wrong with that by any means but if I really had a choice I would've dumped Kenny during episode 2 and stuck with Lily. Is the ending scene with Clem in a field different depending on what you tell her? I assume no but there might be a chance.

I would have told him to go fuck himself by the midway point in episode 1. Glad they somewhat redeemed him in ep 5 (in my version at least, he sacrificed himself to get the walkie-talkie back)

Maybe your choice determians how many sillhoutes Clem sees at the end of episode 5? I told her to find Omid and that black woman (can't remember her name) and that fitted with the number of persons she saw (two), but I don't know...

#29 Edited by Maajin (1059 posts) -

I've been saying this for Mass Effect 3, and The Walking Dead shows my point very well: the illusion of choice is way more important than choice itself.

#30 Posted by Nightriff (4990 posts) -

@civid said:

@Nightriff said:

By episode 3 I felt my choices really didn't matter except for cues here and there. They made it feel like it was a personal journey but really everyone had the someone. Nothing wrong with that by any means but if I really had a choice I would've dumped Kenny during episode 2 and stuck with Lily. Is the ending scene with Clem in a field different depending on what you tell her? I assume no but there might be a chance.

I would have told him to go fuck himself by the midway point in episode 1. Glad they somewhat redeemed him in ep 5 (in my version at least, he sacrificed himself to get the walkie-talkie back)

Maybe your choice determians how many sillhoutes Clem sees at the end of episode 5? I told her to find Omid and that black woman (can't remember her name) and that fitted with the number of persons she saw (two), but I don't know...

Our's are exactly the same. Didn't hate Kenny as much because of what he did and 2 sillhoutes in the distance. What other choices did you make, I'm curious how much our playthroughs paralleled.

#31 Posted by jasonefmonk (350 posts) -

I wasn't surprised, but sure, maybe a little disappointed. That said the story that was told, was excellent, and I love the game. I think it was hurt the most by the fail states. In Heavy Rain if you fuck up and your character dies, that's it. The game keeps going, the story adapts, and you rarely replay anything. You could finish the game without solving the mystery and letting the killer get away, you can finish with everyone alive, and many things in between.

There are important differences between them, and each games does something better than the other. Heavy Rain has four playable characters, The Walking Dead has one. Heavy Rain was a $60 release with (I'm sure) a much bigger budget, The Walking Dead is $25. Heavy Rain is more of game than The Walking Dead, there are more sequences with direct control. These could be positive or negative design choices to different players.

I'm just really happy we have more games of this type to compare.

#32 Posted by civid (412 posts) -

@Nightriff said:

@civid said:

@Nightriff said:

By episode 3 I felt my choices really didn't matter except for cues here and there. They made it feel like it was a personal journey but really everyone had the someone. Nothing wrong with that by any means but if I really had a choice I would've dumped Kenny during episode 2 and stuck with Lily. Is the ending scene with Clem in a field different depending on what you tell her? I assume no but there might be a chance.

I would have told him to go fuck himself by the midway point in episode 1. Glad they somewhat redeemed him in ep 5 (in my version at least, he sacrificed himself to get the walkie-talkie back)

Maybe your choice determians how many sillhoutes Clem sees at the end of episode 5? I told her to find Omid and that black woman (can't remember her name) and that fitted with the number of persons she saw (two), but I don't know...

Our's are exactly the same. Didn't hate Kenny as much because of what he did and 2 sillhoutes in the distance. What other choices did you make, I'm curious how much our playthroughs paralleled.

Lets see now... I chose Carley over Doug, I let go of Ben up in the clocktower, which if I am to believe you guys sounds like a mistake, I tried to save Larry and supported him all the way, but only because I wanted to annoy Kenny, I left Lily on the side of the road without hesitation (can't believe I trusted that woman), I tried to save Herschel's son instead of Kenny's kid, because I found him annoying, my final party consisted of that black woman, Omid and Kenny and I let Clem leave Lee without putting a bullet through his brain (I couldn't bring myself to let her shoot him).

Overall I'm very satisfied with the outcome of most of my decisions and I don't think I'll be replaying the game any time soon. No reason to ruin the illusion of choice or force myself to make other choices just to see the different outcomes. I really don't care about that stufff.

#33 Posted by civid (412 posts) -

Now that I think about it, the most disappointing thing to me about the whole game was that my favorite character, Molly, only appeared in one episode and left without any real explanation other than "ya well I'm more of a loner typer, I guess, I don't know". I would have really liked to have her by Lee's side till the end

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