@Barrock said:

I played Nier. Walking Dead is superior.

cool, I think Nier is superior, but I completely respect your opinion.

the thing is, how many people are going to agree with me vs. you? we'll never know the true number because no one really played it.

also @ImmortalSaiyan: you could always catch up with this http://lparchive.org/NIER/ if you're a fast reader.

What a baby.

@Demoskinos said:

@Animasta I played/have Neir but I did a dumb dumb thing and my completionist self got obsessed with doing all the side quests then ended up not finishing it. I got to about the halfway point after a huge event happened.

yeah being a completitionist in Nier is rough :(

@JerichoBlyth: I am the biggest baby there is

TWD does it for me because there were only four or five ten-minute bits in which I felt like I was playing a video game. For the rest of the fifteen hours I WAS Lee.

And Metro 2033 is a fantastic game that everyone should play, but I never thought it was depressing.

@Animasta said:

@ValiantGrizzly said:

"THE WALKING DEAD IS GOOD BUT PEOPLE CAN'T SAY IT'S GOOD BECAUSE OTHER GAMES ARE ALSO GOOD."

"IF PEOPLE LIKED THE WALKING DEAD THERE ARE ALSO GAMES THAT THEY NEVER PLAYED THAT THEY SHOULD CHECK OUT MAYBE"

more accurate!

I kind of hate that conclusion that people come too. "You're only saying this is game of the year because you haven't played these games." I've played The Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol, Persona 4, and Fallout. Well Walking Dead is sill my game of the year. Also none of the games you've listed has come out this year.

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Animasta said:

@ValiantGrizzly said:

"THE WALKING DEAD IS GOOD BUT PEOPLE CAN'T SAY IT'S GOOD BECAUSE OTHER GAMES ARE ALSO GOOD."

"IF PEOPLE LIKED THE WALKING DEAD THERE ARE ALSO GAMES THAT THEY NEVER PLAYED THAT THEY SHOULD CHECK OUT MAYBE"

more accurate!

I kind of hate that conclusion that people come too. "You're only saying this is game of the year because you haven't played these games." I've played The Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol, Persona 4, and Fallout. Well Walking Dead is sill my game of the year. Also none of the games you've listed has come out this year.

Well there's two things.

1. I was talking about playing those games because they were interesting games.

2. The only time I mentioned GOTY was looking back at the other GOTY winners, which were more gameplay focused than TWD is.

go ahead and call it your game of the year, I don't know why people think I'm trying to dissuade people from doing that.

I will never understand how somebody can cry at a video game. I've never been so emotionally invested in a video game that it has made me cry. Maybe I'm a robot, but I just don't get it.

@jsnyder82 said:

I will never understand how somebody can cry at a video game. I've never been so emotionally invested in a video game that it has made me cry. Maybe I'm a robot, but I just don't get it.

Let's go with; you are a robot and I am over emotional and a proper response is somewhere in the middle

Why did Devil Survivor 2 make you cry? Did you go for Hotsuin's ending or was it the thing with Jungo and his cat?

@Nux said:

Why did Devil Survivor 2 make you cry? Did you go for Hotsuin's ending?

I'm pretty sure it was when I messed up and had Jungo die

also the end of his social link or w/e

Just because those games deal with the same themes and concepts as The Walking Dead doesn't make them as good. The Walking Dead is much more well-written than any of the games you listed. It's not getting praise simply because it's depressing or it makes your choices matter, it's because it does all these things and is also really, really fucking good.

@Animasta said:

@Nux said:

Why did Devil Survivor 2 make you cry? Did you go for Hotsuin's ending?

I'm pretty sure it was when I messed up and had Jungo die

also the end of his social link or w/e

That will do it. I'll admit that the end of his S.Link was pretty sad and made me tear up a bit.

@Milkman said:

Just because those games deal with the same themes and concepts as The Walking Dead doesn't make them as good. The Walking Dead is much more well-written than any of the games you listed. It's not getting praise simply because it's depressing or it makes your choices matter, it's because it does all these things and is also really, really fucking good.

but see, that's opinion, just like all things.

and many of the games I listed have not been played as much as the walking dead (new vegas was an obvious exception I shouldn't have mentioned). Again, as I have said, if you think TWD is better, fine, I'm just saying that people should play these other games

LIKE NIER

FOR EXAMPLE.

:P

GAMES WITH GUNS: Battlefield, Call of Duty, Gears of War

GAMES WITH JUMPING: Mario, Ratchet and Clank

GAMES WITH VOICE ACTING: Dragonball Z: Budokai, Halo.

THEREFORE UNCHARTED 2 ISN'T THAT GREAT!

Almost every game, in one way or another, takes from others. Hell, the whole entire Clem-Lee relationship is pretty much lifted straight out of The Road. But none of that matters, because the Walking Dead was a fantastic experience. Yes, it is indeed flawed, but it's still proof of the intrinsic value that video games offer to storytelling.

Nier is worth playing for the music.

In fact, just listen to the OST; skip the actual game playing part.

@PixelPrinny said:

Nier is worth playing for the music.

In fact, just listen to the OST; skip the actual game playing part.

I don't think the OST is as impactful without playing the game.

songs like the dark colossus destroys all or song of the ancients / fate would not be nearly as good without knowing what happened in the gameplay.

@Animasta said:

@PixelPrinny said:

Nier is worth playing for the music.

In fact, just listen to the OST; skip the actual game playing part.

I don't think the OST is as impactful without playing the game.

songs like the dark colossus destroys all or song of the ancients / fate would not be nearly as good without knowing what happened in the gameplay.

Meh, the only song that I felt had any sort of real emotional connection to the storytelling was 'Grandma', but even without the scene (if you can really call it that, since you're just reading a story) that goes with the song, it's still a very moving song.

Well, sure, there are a bunch of games that have specific similarities to The Walking Dead. But it's the combination of those elements that make it stand out. In the case of Nier, I think the gameplay really got in the way for a lot of people, whereas the kinda crappy action stuff in The Walking Dead was relatively brief. And hey, this could lead to more of these story-based games. It doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Seconded everyone go play nier now.

Virtues Last Reward > TWD

@Animasta said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Animasta said:

@ValiantGrizzly said:

"THE WALKING DEAD IS GOOD BUT PEOPLE CAN'T SAY IT'S GOOD BECAUSE OTHER GAMES ARE ALSO GOOD."

"IF PEOPLE LIKED THE WALKING DEAD THERE ARE ALSO GAMES THAT THEY NEVER PLAYED THAT THEY SHOULD CHECK OUT MAYBE"

more accurate!

I kind of hate that conclusion that people come too. "You're only saying this is game of the year because you haven't played these games." I've played The Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol, Persona 4, and Fallout. Well Walking Dead is sill my game of the year. Also none of the games you've listed has come out this year.

Well there's two things.

1. I was talking about playing those games because they were interesting games.

2. The only time I mentioned GOTY was looking back at the other GOTY winners, which were more gameplay focused than TWD is.

go ahead and call it your game of the year, I don't know why people think I'm trying to dissuade people from doing that.

Alright then let's go with the argument that all the other games were ignored in favor of TWD.

1. I think Alpha Protocol is a terrible game and I didn't really get the feeling my choices mattered all that much over all. It was way more broken then anything you've listed making it so it was a chore to get to the stuff that really made the game interesting. The time limit was the smartest thing they've done. I also believe it had a worse ending than ME3.

2. The Witcher 2 has received plenty of praise because of it's story, characters, choices, and dark atmosphere. To say that game was ignored is baffling. The combat was seen as really hard but there wasn't anything technically wrong with that. Just made a higher barrier to entry. It also sold 4 million units worldwide which is pretty damn good for a game like that.

3. Fallout: New Vegas and Fallout 3 sold really really well and received numerous goty awards. If anything those games were forgiven for their flaws way more than any of the games you've listed including TWD. Those were really easy to break.

4. Atlus games were always kind of underground, and I think they are fine with that. The Persona series is steeped in Japanese culture and can be kind of hard to get into if you aren't familiar with those elements.

I think because the Walking Dead just came out you are hearing all this praise for that game and forgetting that most of the games you've mentioned weren't ignored and in fact have been given their props. Like I said those other games didn't come out this year so they aren't as relevant to the conversation. No one's talking about them this year because almost everyone has already played them.

@SethPhotopoulos: okay you dont' get my ultimate point, which admittedly I made it kind of hard to get, so lemme spell it out for you;

these games never got the accolades that TWD will get. I never mentioned fallout 3, I kinda think that is a bad game, new vegas got way less props. TWD will be the skyrim for this year, it's quite obvious. those games I mentioned were not given nearly as many props, because those games all have significant problems. So does the walking dead, but people are handwaving that (this is my point)

also you thought your choices mattered in TWD but didn't in AP? I've played AP 4 times and I've gotten way different endings most of those times. I can play TWD again and know what the end will be.

@Milkman: admittedly half of those people are me with different avatars because I change it every week

@Animasta said:

@SethPhotopoulos: okay you dont' get my ultimate point, which admittedly I made it kind of hard to get, so lemme spell it out for you;

these games never got the accolades that TWD will get. I never mentioned fallout 3, I kinda think that is a bad game, new vegas got way less props. TWD will be the skyrim for this year, it's quite obvious. those games I mentioned were not given nearly as many props, because those games all have significant problems. So does the walking dead, but people are handwaving that (this is my point)

also you thought your choices mattered in TWD but didn't in AP? I've played AP 4 times and I've gotten way different endings most of those times. I can play TWD again and know what the end will be.

I remember making a lot of big choices in Alpha Protocol that were never adressed in the ending. You are a spy who is supposed to have influence in world wide events and the game kind of ignored it. TWD may always lead you down the same path but at least it effects character interaction which was the Ultimate point of TWD. Part of the Walking Dead is the powerlessness you feel in some of your choices. It's what kind of person you are at the end of your journey that matters.

Also I wildly disagree with your sentiment on New Vegas, that game ran like garbage on release and there was a lot of ways to break the game without knowing. Like I said it sold really really well (better than TWD will) and did score plenty of accolades. That game had it's flaws ignored

Almost everyone who has ever played the Persona games are going to give it praise, it's just that those are more underground style games and they won't appeal to everyone.

The Witcher 2 has received plenty of praise and was a commercial success. That's damn impressive considering the nature of the game.

TWD also didn't have that many problems/performance issues that would hinder a game. The "action" sequences may be what you're talking about but some of those worked really well, and there wasn't even a lot of those.

Those games weren't ignored, certainly not because of their significant problems. Maybe if you told us what problems you are talking about your point would make more sense.

@SethPhotopoulos: the puzzles were dumb busywork (either take them out or make them better) which doesn't sound like much but they are still a significant portion of the game (and I played through all of the episodes in 2 days like a week ago so I should know). Playing through any amount of the game over again makes you realize how little your choice actually matters, as well.

also that game has so many performances issues what? There are plenty of people who've had saves deleted or it deletes their choices or whatever. It never happened to me but that is a significant problem that people are ALSO handwaving.

also I realize that some of the games I listed recieved some small amount of accolades, please stop being condescending, what I'm saying is that they recieved not as much as they deserved and not nearly as much as TWD is going to do.

It seems more than a little petty to be mad at people for not liking the stuff that you like, even if that is basically the backbone on which all forum discussion is built. But at least you admit you're being unreasonable in the thread title, so that's nice.

@Demoskinos said:

@Animasta Hmmm...something we can finally agree on? Crazy! I pretty much agree too and look Ill admit that I haven't played the game but from the knowledge I have of the game alot of what I've read that seems well...kinda forced. The basic flow of the story seems to be everyone running from point to point escaping the zambies then something horrible happens and you have to make a fucked up choice often involving someone dying. It seems really formulatic.

This is just lazy criticism. If we are going to get this reductive about video games they will all sound terrible.

Play the game before you shit on it. Ridiculous.

I love this narrative some of you are crafting that Walking Dead is for dummies who are just now discovering the wonders of video games with stories.

@Hunter5024 said:

This rant reminds me of this rant I made once. It was about those people who grew up playing Doom and Duke 3d and decided that games weren't for story, were all about killing and having fun, and were full of nothing but shallow characters, all because they were caught in this little bubble. Then Half Life, Portal, and Bioshock come along and creep their way into this bubble they've created and introduce them to the idea of games being more, and suddenly it's like those three titles are the pinnacle of gaming achievement, where story telling in games begins and ends to this audience of people. As someone who'd been appreciating story based games for years, it drove me crazy. In the end I basically realized that if it's going to expand these peoples definition of a game, then I can put up with their idiotic notions about video game stories being invented in 2007. The Walking Dead is allowing more people to experience a video game whose sole merit is it's story, it's teaching a wider audience of people that you don't need engaging gameplay to have an awesome video game, and overall I think that's a good healthy thing. Even if it's going to be annoying to the people who have been enjoying games like visual novels, and text adventures for decades.

Also I wish a game could make me cry. I must have a cold black heart.

Just like this. Why would it be annoying for you to see a game appreciated for having a good story? I loved the Walking Dead, so I must be an idiot who had a "notion about video game stories being invented in 2007"... oh except Max Payne... or Grim Fandango.. or any other amounts of great stories in the past I've played. And Walking Dead stacks up against any of them and more than any other game I have played, the narrative creates a real emotional response. I've never come close to crying playing a video game and I did at the end of this one.

For lack of a better term, this is the most hipster bullshit I'm reading. People like this game, get over it.

This rant reminds me of this rant I made once. It was about those people who grew up playing Doom and Duke 3d and decided that games weren't for story, were all about killing and having fun, and were full of nothing but shallow characters, all because they were caught in this little bubble. Then Half Life, Portal, and Bioshock come along and creep their way into this bubble they've created and introduce them to the idea of games being more, and suddenly it's like those three titles are the pinnacle of gaming achievement, where story telling in games begins and ends to this audience of people. As someone who'd been appreciating story based games for years, it drove me crazy. In the end I basically realized that if it's going to expand these peoples definition of a game, then I can put up with their idiotic notions about video game stories being invented in 2007. The Walking Dead is allowing more people to experience a video game whose sole merit is it's story, it's teaching a wider audience of people that you don't need engaging gameplay to have an awesome video game, and overall I think that's a good healthy thing. Even if it's going to be annoying to the people who have been enjoying games like visual novels, and text adventures for decades.

Also I wish a game could make me cry. I must have a cold black heart.

I had fun reading that.

I have only almost cried while playing a videogame when

@Animasta said:

@Hitchenson said:

@Animasta: Out of your listed games I've played all of them but Persona (because I straight up don't care about JRPGs) and Nier. I've played tons of games that have "deep and meaningful" stories, yet TWD remains the best I've played. In my opinion games often struggle to make the player actually care about the characters and TWD nailed it. Maybe other games have made you care, but they haven't nearly made me to the same extent TWD did.

then fine, you aren't the person I'm talking about (though I think you should play Nier because of all the games I've mentioned it's the most similar to TWD, despite the differing gameplay styles). Are you going to say that, if people had taken the time to get into, say, alpha protocol, it would not have gotten a better response than it had, which was whining about the combat (the combat was pretty bad admittedly).

Yeah, I've heard a lot of good things about Nier so I'll definitely give it a whirl.

And I agree with what you're saying about Alpha Protocol totally, people should give that game more of a chance because it's pretty damn great. I'm just saying I feel TWD absolutely nailed what it set out to do and I understand why people are so pleased with it. But you're right, if people can look past TWD's shortcomings and appreciate the narrative it offers, then they should be able to do the same to other games. I think that in TWD's favour, it's got a lack of gameplay (as in always interactive and you the player being in control, it is a game of course) I guess, but it's not that the gameplay is shoddy.

@Encephalon said:

It seems more than a little petty to be mad at people for not liking the stuff that you like, even if that is basically the backbone on which all forum discussion is built. But at least you admit you're being unreasonable in the thread title, so that's nice.

exactly.

people on the internet have no... self awareness when it comes to stuff like this. As long as you're aware your being petty, it's best to get it out asap.

@Hunter5024: this brings up a good point I had not considered, and that I can now rag on people for not trying visual novels with "well you liked the walking dead didn't you!?"

I rescind all criticism

@Animasta said:

@SethPhotopoulos: the puzzles were dumb busywork (either take them out or make them better) which doesn't sound like much but they are still a significant portion of the game (and I played through all of the episodes in 2 days like a week ago so I should know). Playing through any amount of the game over again makes you realize how little your choice actually matters, as well.

also that game has so many performances issues what? There are plenty of people who've had saves deleted or it deletes their choices or whatever. It never happened to me but that is a significant problem that people are ALSO handwaving.

also I realize that some of the games I listed recieved some small amount of accolades, please stop being condescending, what I'm saying is that they recieved not as much as they deserved and not nearly as much as TWD is going to do.

If I'm being condescending it's an accident based on the way I write.

The puzzles may have been simple but they didn't get in the way and can be taken care of quickly to get to what you really want. I posit that your choices are supposed to matter with character interaction and not on the grand scale, that was always the goal. Whenever the devs would talk about TWD they always said that what mattered was the interaction between characters giving you a slightly altered version of everyone else's story. They have never said that the choices you make were meant to be game changing. That's where TWD and other game with choices differ like The Witcher 2, Alpha Protocol, and New Vegas. You had way more influence on the wrodl around you and that was their goal. TWD's goal was the smaller scale, character building. I think Vinny said it best when he pretty much stated he wasn't trying to stop the apocalypse, just try to figure out who gets the crackers.

The save issues with TWD didn't happen to that many people. It happens and it sucks when it does but it wasn't that wide scale. New Vegas on the other hand had issues that everyone who has ever played it has dealt with. Everyone played a busted game, and most people forgave that.

You are also forgetting about what appeals to audiences. The world of TWD is easier to get into than The Witcher 2 and Persona 4. In TWD you are dealing with realistic people put in a shitty situation. The Witcher 2 is a sequel to a game that's a sequel to a book series that haven't been translated. To play that game you have to ask a lot from people to understand that world. The Witcher 2 is also way harder to play and makes it easier to get stuck. Again I'll disagree with you on New Vegas. Persona 4 is steeped in Japanese culture and is also really hard. Those games just won't/can't appeal to as many people as TWD.

ohhh yeahhh...

@SethPhotopoulos: I'm aware they won't, but as long as one person plays nier in response to my blog post than it has all been justified

@ArtisanBreads: Well that is just the problem isn't it? The game gives me zero reason to want to play it. And the actual "game" part of it sounds terrible by all accounts. Its the story that people cling onto and if I wanted that I would just read the graphic novels. Lazy criticism or not its the way I feel.

@Animasta said:

@SethPhotopoulos: I'm aware they won't, but as long as one person plays nier in response to my blog post than it has all been justified

If that's the point of all of this then why not just say "If you like TWD try these games out." Instead of "These games deserve way more praise than this game."

@Demoskinos said:

@ArtisanBreads: Well that is just the problem isn't it? The game gives me zero reason to want to play it. And the actual "game" part of it sounds terrible by all accounts. Its the story that people cling onto and if I wanted that I would just read the graphic novels. Lazy criticism or not its the way I feel.

Either way if you haven't played a game you probably shouldn't criticize it because it's uninformed and confuses the discussion.

@Demoskinos said:

@ArtisanBreads: Well that is just the problem isn't it? The game gives me zero reason to want to play it. And the actual "game" part of it sounds terrible by all accounts. Its the story that people cling onto and if I wanted that I would just read the graphic novels. Lazy criticism or not its the way I feel.

There is no "clinging" to the story. That's like saying Call of Duty "clings" to its shooting. The story is legitimately excellent. It hardly even tries to have action gameplay. That is the beauty of it: it knows what it wants to do and it does just that and it nails it.

The action gameplay isn't terrible, it's just pretty much non-existant. In the first episode they had puzzles and I quite enjoyed them but eventually they did away with those and just focused on story and choice. The game knows what it wants to be.

Do graphic novels react to how you play? No. You can play Lee as yourself or do a bit of roleplaying but either way it is choice and therefore quite personally affecting.

And it's lazy criticism. You have an uniformed opinion and if you don't want to play the game, fine, but don't tell me what it is and isn't, and what it "clings" to.

@Animasta: I'm actually really glad the game only had one ending :P

I can't imagine how frustrating it would have been to have gotten a shitty ending the first time through because I made some stupid decisions early on.

@ArtisanBreads said:

*slowly backs away*

this.

I played the first episode of TWD and didn't like it. Didn't care about the events or characters or any choices I made. I have episode 2 on my PS3 (thanks to PSPlus) and I haven't bothered to start it and I probably never will.

Nier is pretty much the only video game I've ever felt emotionally invested in. I'm also one of the weirdos who likes actually -playing- it. I still get really strong feelings when I think about it or listen to the music. I love Nier. But FUCK THE SIDEQUESTS and FUCK YOU CAVIA.

@Animasta

Don't think your love of Nier puts you on my good list....okay it kinda does. :(

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Animasta said:

@SethPhotopoulos: I'm aware they won't, but as long as one person plays nier in response to my blog post than it has all been justified

If that's the point of all of this then why not just say "If you like TWD try these games out." Instead of "These games deserve way more praise than this game."

yeah, but who would have paid attention to that blog post?

@Animasta said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Animasta said:

@SethPhotopoulos: I'm aware they won't, but as long as one person plays nier in response to my blog post than it has all been justified

If that's the point of all of this then why not just say "If you like TWD try these games out." Instead of "These games deserve way more praise than this game."

yeah, but who would have paid attention to that blog post?

Is anyone paying attention to that point, though?

@Video_Game_King said:

@Animasta said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Animasta said:

@SethPhotopoulos: I'm aware they won't, but as long as one person plays nier in response to my blog post than it has all been justified

If that's the point of all of this then why not just say "If you like TWD try these games out." Instead of "These games deserve way more praise than this game."

yeah, but who would have paid attention to that blog post?

Is anyone paying attention to that point, though?

this was my plot;

make a really controversial, and in retrospect terribly written, blog post

get people in to start calling me crazy

respond sensibly

extoll Nier's values

???

profit!

(at least that's what I decided just now)

All of your example games are large, sprawling experiences. The effectiveness of a 10-hour emotionally resonant story gets diluted when you divide it across 40+ hours of gameplay. The Walking Dead's triumphs are as much about pacing as anything else. And I'd like to note that none of your examples do all three things that you're crediting The Walking Dead for doing.

DEPRESSING GAMES WHERE CHOICE MATTERS WITH A LITTLE GIRL YOU WANT TO PROTECT WITH EXCELLENT PACING DELIVERED IN A MANNER DIGESTABLE BY GAMERS OF ALL STRIPES: The Walking Dead (end of list)

The walking dead video "game" is popular because it is the walking dead which has some massive "culture" BS behind it. No it doesn't do anything I haven't seen before. No it doesn't do anything "better" than it's ever been done before. But that doesn't matter cause it's "the walking dead" and therefore good just because.

Sorry if I offended anyone with this post. (not really actually)

@Karkarov:

But that's certainly not just it; look at the actual television show and the reaction for that show is decidedly mixed. People are reacting to it because it's a well-crafted story that takes place in an established fiction, yet is able to stand apart from it.

aka: you don't need to like the comic-book or television show to enjoy the video game.

@Karkarov said:

The walking dead video "game" is popular because it is the walking dead which has some massive "culture" BS behind it. No it doesn't do anything I haven't seen before. No it doesn't do anything "better" than it's ever been done before. But that doesn't matter cause it's "the walking dead" and therefore good just because.

Sorry if I offended anyone with this post. (not really actually)

Thanks for saying that. I hate this game now. You're a genius.

People like you are what's wrong with video games.

@Karkarov: By that logic, everyone would love a Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter game.

Yeah, the problem with your argument is that Nier is fucking awful whereas The Walking Dead isn't.