Episode 2 Discussion (SPOILERS)

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#51 Posted by golguin (3969 posts) -

I enjoyed the episode even though I was a season pass holder on the 360 and I wasn't able to get the game until the free code was sent out. The technical issues seem worse than what they were in the first episode, but I guess that's something that I'll just have to deal with.

If Lily can be glamoured to look like Snow then someone can do the same for Ichabod.

I don't know if the choices glitched again, but did anyone see Prince Lawrence in the "previously on" segment? I saved him, but there was no mention of him anywhere.

#52 Edited by ToTheNines (753 posts) -

I don't think Ichabod smokes, so I found it odd that the suspect had been smoking huff and buff, which you can buy at the strip club. Also from reading Ichabods bio, apparently some guy has been screwing up his life and trying to ruin his reputation, so that's probably related.

Loved this episode, though I wouldn't have minded it being maybe 45-60 mins longer. It's too good!

#53 Posted by golguin (3969 posts) -

One more thing. Did anyone else have a strong reaction when Bigby told snow, "I almost lost you once-" and she responded with, "I'm not yours to lose!" because I'm surprised I did. That was just a super fucked up thing to say.

#54 Edited by SgtSphynx (1490 posts) -

@papercut: There are two points, one in each episode, where you have the option of paying. In the first episode when you are at the bar and order a drink from Holly, and in the second episode when the little mermaid makes an appointment with you. If you don't have any money, Holly just says typical, and the little mermaid uses some of her own for the situation.

#55 Posted by kishinfoulux (2402 posts) -

@golguin said:

One more thing. Did anyone else have a strong reaction when Bigby told snow, "I almost lost you once-" and she responded with, "I'm not yours to lose!" because I'm surprised I did. That was just a super fucked up thing to say.

I thought she acted like a bit of a bitch in this episode. Yes god forbid I care about you and was worried you DIED.

*Kishinfoulux will remember that*

#56 Posted by Nodima (1244 posts) -

@golguin said:

One more thing. Did anyone else have a strong reaction when Bigby told snow, "I almost lost you once-" and she responded with, "I'm not yours to lose!" because I'm surprised I did. That was just a super fucked up thing to say.

Taking into account these people have been living for a really long, I figure there's unspoken history between the two of them that makes it pretty clear Bigby cares about her more as someone he used to have a relationship with and still loves than a current love interest. And vice versa. In that scenario her reaction makes perfect sense - she's a single woman, he doesn't have any controlling interest in her life, and sometimes she feels like he needs to be reminded of that.

That said, it really didn't make sense for that conversation to go hostile no matter what. That whole transition from the cold open to her re-introduction felt oddly scripted, I played it totally confused and bummed out only to get berated, and the path I took to get there didn't really make sense. It ended with a solid premise but it didn't really give me any good reason to expect that as it unfolded.

#57 Posted by SunBroZak (1204 posts) -

Okay, so I just played through the first episode again, and I'm convinced "Faith" is another character under the disguise of a glamour. The fact that the Woodsman was demanding she recognize him, coupled with the fact that Bigby swore he knew her from somewhere, coupled with the fact that she knew where his apartment was, I bet there's something more to who she is. But I don't have the slightest clue who she would be, if she's not Donkeyskin.

#58 Posted by ThunderSlash (1829 posts) -

@sunbrozak: In my playthrough of the second episode, I had the chance to interrogate the Woodsman. Basically he tells Bigby that he thought that she was Lily cus he was drunk. Plus, there was evidence that Faith was there to cover for Lily because she was busy with another client (Ichabod) that night at the strip club. But I could have sworn that it was said that Faith was at the Woodsman's place to get her donkey coat. Something's not adding up.

#59 Posted by smcn (926 posts) -

@yesiamaduck said:

I loved this episode because it got suitably dark towards the end, built a lot of character and the club owner is one I look forward to seeing more from the future... I thought it was a great episode even if it was short. Also one of the main complaints I've seen was 'not enough action'... what you mean QTEs? I thought gamers hated QTEs! People are soo fickle XD

My only complaint as far as the action sequences go is how TellTale for some reason likes to ignore how important meaningful decisions are whenever it's in the context of a fight. Like, I was fighting Beast but I didn't want to fight him at all, so after dodging, ducking and smacking him away a couple times, I stopped. He then smacked my head into the wall and I got a Game Over. I'd much rather have had it end with Bigby passing out or something and then wake up to find Beauty and Beast settling things; it'd have made me feel like I missed out on something as a result of not fighting, but also that i'd made an important character decision to not fight. In the end I just fought until the game said I was allowed to stop fighting, then Beast punched me through the door and the scene went on; it just didn't feel quite "right" like the rest of the episode did.

If the player is given agency while controlling an actual character instead of a cipher, it's inevitable that at some point the characterization will take priority over what the player wants to do. In this case it's even justified that the player would lose a bit of control in the outcome, just as Bigby does. Beast started the fight, it would be out of character for Bigby not to finish it.

#60 Edited by DinosaurCanada (115 posts) -

Good episode. Decided Bigby was in a weird place, so played him kind of inconsistently. Georgie was a fun character and the lighting puzzle was awesome. Hotel part seemed a little rushed though, and some scenes hitched bad (360 version). EDIT: Knowing what I know from the comics (which is very little via off-hand forum posts), I predict it is NOT indeed Ichabod, there is another creeper.

@papercut said:

2) Did anyone investigate the...occupied room at the hotel?

No ew that's private

#61 Edited by Nodima (1244 posts) -

Okay, so I just played through the first episode again, and I'm convinced "Faith" is another character under the disguise of a glamour. The fact that the Woodsman was demanding she recognize him, coupled with the fact that Bigby swore he knew her from somewhere, coupled with the fact that she knew where his apartment was, I bet there's something more to who she is. But I don't have the slightest clue who she would be, if she's not Donkeyskin.

If she were, she'd have changed back by now, right? Maybe this is mentioned in the comics so some people would consider it a spoiler, but do people lose the spell after they die or after the magical vial is taken off of their person?

#62 Posted by StarvingGamer (8379 posts) -

@nodima: Well, the Troll was dead for half a day and didn't turn back until after the black market spell was broken open IIRC.

#63 Posted by StarvingGamer (8379 posts) -

@golguin said:

One more thing. Did anyone else have a strong reaction when Bigby told snow, "I almost lost you once-" and she responded with, "I'm not yours to lose!" because I'm surprised I did. That was just a super fucked up thing to say.

I thought she acted like a bit of a bitch in this episode. Yes god forbid I care about you and was worried you DIED.

*Kishinfoulux will remember that*

I imagine that discovering yourself as the second victim in a serial killing would really fuck with your state of mind.

#64 Edited by Voxus (343 posts) -

So is it just me, or does the Headless Horseman HAS to have something to do with the murders right? Maybe going behind Crane and finishing off his lady friends?

#65 Posted by StarvingGamer (8379 posts) -
#66 Edited by LackingSaint (1833 posts) -

@yi_orange said:

After reading some of the comics, I think I played this episode a bit differently. I was always on the cusp of beating people down and breaking all their shit, but never actually did it(I smashed Georgie's sign and ciagrette machine, and punched the woodsman once). I kinda feel like the scariest part about Bigby isn't that he WILL hurt you, it's that he MIGHT.

Anyway, I thought it was a good episode. A lot of the thoughts I have tie in to what I know about the comics so I won't say anything about that. Just that I hope I get to beat the shit out of Bluebeard at some point.

Haha, that's weird, I broke almost the exact same things in Georgie's club, only additionally breaking the disc-spinnin' table. And yeah, it's definitely an odd feeling playing this episode after reading the comics, especially knowing the fates of certain characters and interacting with them.

@smcn said:
@lackingsaint said:

My only complaint as far as the action sequences go is how TellTale for some reason likes to ignore how important meaningful decisions are whenever it's in the context of a fight. Like, I was fighting Beast but I didn't want to fight him at all, so after dodging, ducking and smacking him away a couple times, I stopped. He then smacked my head into the wall and I got a Game Over. I'd much rather have had it end with Bigby passing out or something and then wake up to find Beauty and Beast settling things; it'd have made me feel like I missed out on something as a result of not fighting, but also that i'd made an important character decision to not fight. In the end I just fought until the game said I was allowed to stop fighting, then Beast punched me through the door and the scene went on; it just didn't feel quite "right" like the rest of the episode did.

If the player is given agency while controlling an actual character instead of a cipher, it's inevitable that at some point the characterization will take priority over what the player wants to do. In this case it's even justified that the player would lose a bit of control in the outcome, just as Bigby does. Beast started the fight, it would be out of character for Bigby not to finish it.

That seems like a bit of a cop-out. It's out of character for Bigby to not beat up a good friend over a misunderstanding, but it's totally in-character for him to treat a scumbag who knows something about Snow White's murder with the utmost care and respect (which the player can enforce)? I can tell you from reading the comics that that wouldn't be the case. Besides, I DID in fact have the power to refuse to finish the fight as Bigby, stopping the prompts about halfway in so Beast is the one tossing me through a door; the problem is that for an arbitrary reason, the game refused to let me play the role of the peacemaker until halfway into the fight.

#67 Edited by Xymox (2106 posts) -
@golguin said:

If Lily can be glamoured to look like Snow then someone can do the same for Ichabod.

Indeed. At this point I don't believe anything the game says.

@lackingsaint said:

My only complaint as far as the action sequences go is how TellTale for some reason likes to ignore how important meaningful decisions are whenever it's in the context of a fight. Like, I was fighting Beast but I didn't want to fight him at all, so after dodging, ducking and smacking him away a couple times, I stopped. He then smacked my head into the wall and I got a Game Over.

Happened to me as well. Beast was upset and freaking out. I purposely didn't put up a fight but then it sort of turned into that anyway because of the Game Over screen.
Perhaps that's why only like 7% of players actually managed to not beat the shit out of him...

Also the "out of character" thing doesn't really work due to the nature of how the game is set up. People will play the game differently and have different experiences, and those events will define the character. In my version Bigby doesn't go around raging at everyone and everything, smashing up people's clubs and stuff. Unless I'm damn sure you're the perp, I'm just not going to fight you, because that's not going to accomplish anything. If you still decide to aggro on me I will defend myself but I'll only use as much force that is necessary to have you stop.

Just because the game offers you a go-into-wolf-rage or "smash this guy's face in?"-prompt during every dialogue tree doesn't mean you have to push it or that it's out of character to not push it. If you know Bigby from the comics perhaps your experience will be different, that you're more likely to be influenced into pushing one dialogue option over the other because that makes more sense to you... perhaps in the comics he can't control his rage - I don't know - haven't gotten a feel for Bigby in the comics (having only read one or two).
But either way the game offers something different.

Still, it's funny. Everyone I've met so far thinks Bigby is this raging monster who can't control himself, so at this point I'm just playing on people's prejudices. Heck, even Snow got on on my ass about it even though I did exactly zero torturing and was actively trying to stop the guy that was as she stepped into the room.

#68 Posted by granderojo (1792 posts) -

The problem with Fables as a murder mystery story(or one of it's strengths depending on your perspective) is that if you are aware of the story of certain Fables, you can accurately predict which way the story is going. As soon as they introduced Ichabod Crane I had the hunch that he was responsible. The same can be said for the first major story arc with Blue Beards in the comics.

That said I really like how more grody they've opted to go with the The Wolf Among Us but modernized some of the storytelling. One of my big hangups with the Fables comic is that it's sort of stuck up it's own ass with trying to be nastolgic for a certain time period of pre-Giuliani New York. It does this to an extent so much early on that even the comic reads like a comic in style to comics of the era(late eighties and early nineties).

@xymox said:

@golguin said:

If Lily can be glamoured to look like Snow then someone can do the same for Ichabod.

Indeed. At this point I don't believe anything the game says.

No one would go through the effort to elaborately frame Ichabod while they were paying a prostitute to live out a fantasy. That said I have no question that it's more complicated than just "Ichabod chopped off her head" but at this point it's quite clear that he was the one who did it. I don't know, it's just how the stories are told in the comic as well. If they tell you something major like this it usually ends up being true.

#69 Edited by golguin (3969 posts) -

The problem with Fables as a murder mystery story(or one of it's strengths depending on your perspective) is that if you are aware of the story of certain Fables, you can accurately predict which way the story is going. As soon as they introduced Ichabod Crane I had the hunch that he was responsible. The same can be said for the first major story arc with Blue Beards in the comics.

That said I really like how more grody they've opted to go with the The Wolf Among Us but modernized some of the storytelling. One of my big hangups with the Fables comic is that it's sort of stuck up it's own ass with trying to be nastolgic for a certain time period of pre-Giuliani New York. It does this to an extent so much early on that even the comic reads like a comic in style to comics of the era(late eighties and early nineties).

@xymox said:

@golguin said:

If Lily can be glamoured to look like Snow then someone can do the same for Ichabod.

Indeed. At this point I don't believe anything the game says.

No one would go through the effort to elaborately frame Ichabod while they were paying a prostitute to live out a fantasy. That said I have no question that it's more complicated than just "Ichabod chopped off her head" but at this point it's quite clear that he was the one who did it. I don't know, it's just how the stories are told in the comic as well. If they tell you something major like this it usually ends up being true.

Unless the clients are somehow sneaking into their rooms or concealing their appearance Beauty would have recognized Ichabod. Bigby asked her if she saw anyone suspicious and she answered no. How would Ichabod get into the room to commit the murder when Beauty was standing at the front desk? The body somehow made its way out of the room while she was on shift too.

#70 Edited by granderojo (1792 posts) -

@golguin: He already has a key to the room and he just welcomes himself in to 107. You'll notice she wasn't in the front and bigby had the buzz her during that segment in episode 2.

#71 Posted by SgtSphynx (1490 posts) -

@granderojo: If you try to walk up the stairs without ringing the bell she stops you.

#72 Posted by granderojo (1792 posts) -

@sgtsphynx: I guess I just find it much more likely that someone would slip by Beauty than say the alternative you guys are proposing but I concede that it's a possibility. If it's anything like the comic it will set in stone that you know who it was but a bunch of shit will happen in between to complicate things.

#73 Edited by Xymox (2106 posts) -
@golguin said:

@granderojo said:
@xymox said:

@golguin said:

If Lily can be glamoured to look like Snow then someone can do the same for Ichabod.

Indeed. At this point I don't believe anything the game says.

No one would go through the effort to elaborately frame Ichabod while they were paying a prostitute to live out a fantasy. That said I have no question that it's more complicated than just "Ichabod chopped off her head" but at this point it's quite clear that he was the one who did it. I don't know, it's just how the stories are told in the comic as well. If they tell you something major like this it usually ends up being true.

Unless the clients are somehow sneaking into their rooms or concealing their appearance Beauty would have recognized Ichabod. Bigby asked her if she saw anyone suspicious and she answered no. How would Ichabod get into the room to commit the murder when Beauty was standing at the front desk? The body somehow made its way out of the room while she was on shift too.

Ichabod could have concealed himself prior to heading to the room. Note also that Beauty didn't notice Snow (If I remember correctly she did say she thought she saw someone who looked like Snow). If it really is Ichabod and that's how he got in unnoticed, it would make some creepy sense for him to cancel the glamor (if that's possible?) and live out his Snow White fantasy while being himself. I'm not really sure what to believe right now. Try replaying the scene if you didn't notice this, but when Snow talks about stalkers, the scene has a temporary mirror frame around it - hinting at the later reveal. Also, Snow keeps her perfume on the desk, and the troll was given it. It makes sense for it to be someone who's seen it up close. That said, Ichabod smashing the mirror doesn't necessarily mean "oh shit they found out" but could also mean "someone framed me and no one's going to believe I didn't do it". I dunno.

#74 Posted by ChoboBot (156 posts) -

Looking back at the end-game stats which tell other players decisions, I made similar decisions to the majority of people except the TweedleDee tortune scene. I am surprise the majority of people didn't beat the crap out of him from answers, especially since he was starting fights with his brother before.

#75 Edited by audioBusting (1623 posts) -

@nodima said:

@golguin said:

One more thing. Did anyone else have a strong reaction when Bigby told snow, "I almost lost you once-" and she responded with, "I'm not yours to lose!" because I'm surprised I did. That was just a super fucked up thing to say.

Taking into account these people have been living for a really long, I figure there's unspoken history between the two of them that makes it pretty clear Bigby cares about her more as someone he used to have a relationship with and still loves than a current love interest. And vice versa. In that scenario her reaction makes perfect sense - she's a single woman, he doesn't have any controlling interest in her life, and sometimes she feels like he needs to be reminded of that.

That said, it really didn't make sense for that conversation to go hostile no matter what. That whole transition from the cold open to her re-introduction felt oddly scripted, I played it totally confused and bummed out only to get berated, and the path I took to get there didn't really make sense. It ended with a solid premise but it didn't really give me any good reason to expect that as it unfolded.

The "Bigby's Mercy" entry in the Book of Fables does make it sound like they have a history. Maybe someone who has read the books knows better.

@chobobot said:

Looking back at the end-game stats which tell other players decisions, I made similar decisions to the majority of people except the TweedleDee tortune scene. I am surprise the majority of people didn't beat the crap out of him from answers, especially since he was starting fights with his brother before.

Personally I chose to not beat Tweedledee, because I thought he's the kinda smartass in these cop stories who would spill things by accident if let talking (and I was right! I only chose "..." most of the time and got everything out of him.) Plus I was going for a bad cop/good cop kinda thing with Bluebeard without really knowing Bigby and Bluebeard's history, and it kinda worked out anyway because it pissed him off. And I guess I have the idea at the back of my mind that torture doesn't always work too.

#76 Edited by Sessh (871 posts) -

Yeah, I also don't think that Crane actually did it, but was framed instead. He is a creep and a wuss, but I don't see him as the murderer here. I also doubt the Bluebeard theory, even though he obviously tries to profit from the situation.

My bet's still on the guy, who I don't think has been seen yet, who's Dee's and Dum's boss.

Oh, and I beat the crap out of everyone this episode, except for Beast, and I feel good about it.

#77 Posted by SunBroZak (1204 posts) -

@nodima said:

@golguin said:

One more thing. Did anyone else have a strong reaction when Bigby told snow, "I almost lost you once-" and she responded with, "I'm not yours to lose!" because I'm surprised I did. That was just a super fucked up thing to say.

Taking into account these people have been living for a really long, I figure there's unspoken history between the two of them that makes it pretty clear Bigby cares about her more as someone he used to have a relationship with and still loves than a current love interest. And vice versa. In that scenario her reaction makes perfect sense - she's a single woman, he doesn't have any controlling interest in her life, and sometimes she feels like he needs to be reminded of that.

That said, it really didn't make sense for that conversation to go hostile no matter what. That whole transition from the cold open to her re-introduction felt oddly scripted, I played it totally confused and bummed out only to get berated, and the path I took to get there didn't really make sense. It ended with a solid premise but it didn't really give me any good reason to expect that as it unfolded.

The "Bigby's Mercy" entry in the Book of Fables does make it sound like they have a history. Maybe someone who has read the books knows better.

I don't recall much of what that entry said, but without giving too much away, Bigby saved Snow White and her sister a long time ago. He's had feelings for her since. Their argument in episode 2, in which she doesn't want him protecting her all the time, was probably related to that past experience.

#78 Posted by ChoboBot (156 posts) -

@audiobusting: I guess I was going for a more renegade cop approach who will do anything he wants to villains for answers.

#79 Posted by granderojo (1792 posts) -

@nodima said:

@golguin said:

One more thing. Did anyone else have a strong reaction when Bigby told snow, "I almost lost you once-" and she responded with, "I'm not yours to lose!" because I'm surprised I did. That was just a super fucked up thing to say.

Taking into account these people have been living for a really long, I figure there's unspoken history between the two of them that makes it pretty clear Bigby cares about her more as someone he used to have a relationship with and still loves than a current love interest. And vice versa. In that scenario her reaction makes perfect sense - she's a single woman, he doesn't have any controlling interest in her life, and sometimes she feels like he needs to be reminded of that.

That said, it really didn't make sense for that conversation to go hostile no matter what. That whole transition from the cold open to her re-introduction felt oddly scripted, I played it totally confused and bummed out only to get berated, and the path I took to get there didn't really make sense. It ended with a solid premise but it didn't really give me any good reason to expect that as it unfolded.

The "Bigby's Mercy" entry in the Book of Fables does make it sound like they have a history. Maybe someone who has read the books knows better.

I'm going to spoil probably the most major plot point in the entire comic series, look at your own peril.

In the comics after their marriage, Bigby tells Snow that he fell in love with her from her scent when the fables were escaping the wrath of Geppetto. So it's the old "love at first sight" thing but instead "love at first scent". From my understanding Bigby up until that point was an evil fable everyone was in fear of but it was the beauty of Snow White that snapped him out of his rage. It doesn't make sense if you've only played the game but Bigby has loved Snow this entire time but he doesn't think he's worthy of her. You later find out that Bigby is the Prince of the North, and his father is the North Wind and he was an angry evil mess because his fathers is a cunt.

#80 Posted by Korwin (2893 posts) -

@khann said:

Why was Beast at the hotel at all?

I wondered that too... and also thought there's something fishy going on with Beauty's part in things also.

I thought it was pretty clear that Beast had been following Beauty to find out what she was hiding from him, he probably went full crazy spouse after the run in with Bigby in the first episode.

#81 Posted by Aegon (5704 posts) -

Why would Ichabod be hurrying them to solve the case if he was the murderer? Why would the murderer leave ALL of the evidence there including pictures of him in the act?

Either Ichabod wanted them to find out (breaking the mirror points to no) or he's being framed. Otherwise it ends up being in bad writing territory.

#82 Edited by SgtSphynx (1490 posts) -

@sessh said:
My bet's still on the guy, who I don't think has been seen yet, who's Dee's and Dum's boss.

I'm pretty sure their boss is the Crooked Man. Also, quite a possibility since some people were speculating that the taxi driver from the first episode was seen at or prior to every crime scene and has a sheepherders crook emblem on him.

#83 Posted by Khann (2885 posts) -

@korwin:

@korwin said:

@james_hayward said:

@khann said:

Why was Beast at the hotel at all?

I wondered that too... and also thought there's something fishy going on with Beauty's part in things also.

I thought it was pretty clear that Beast had been following Beauty to find out what she was hiding from him, he probably went full crazy spouse after the run in with Bigby in the first episode.

Makes sense.

#84 Posted by Veektarius (4922 posts) -

I agree that it was a short game for such a long wait. I'm glad I didn't have the immersion breakers that some others did. I feel a little bad about breaking Georgie's shit but the guy was holding out on me, so I guess I shouldn't. Jack wasn't a big fan of me, either. What happens if you let him have his say instead of throwing him out? In general I've tried not to burn bridges and it's worked out for me.

#85 Posted by YI_Orange (1163 posts) -

@veektarius: I didn't throw him out and things played out pretty calmly. Told the troll her sister was dead, Jack got kinda quiet. I wasn't looking to start shit so I kinda just let him talk. Also, Jack is a giant asshole in the comic too.

Online
#86 Posted by Stonyman65 (2765 posts) -

I never trusted that motherfucker Crane!

I agree they need to do something about the release dates. I would rather it take more time for them to produce the game as a whole and then release episodes on schedule rather than them developing one episode at a time and waiting 1-3 months for a 2 hour (at most) episode. They have the same problem with The Walking Dead games too. Telltale needs to fix that shit quick if they want people to stick around and keep playing their games.

Online
#87 Posted by Stilblad (89 posts) -

One thing I have been thinking about that has been brought up a few times is the cigarettes. People seem to keep assuming that the cigarettes were the killers and therefore the killer isnt Icabod since he hasnt been shown smoking but couldnt those cigarettes have been Lilly's?

The other thing I dont think I saw mentioned was that Icabod was acting extremely suspicious during the scene where you are looking for clues on the corpse so I think that Icabod might have been coerced into playing a part in the murder of lily. I dont think he was simply framed like a bunch of people suspect.

#88 Edited by Robopengy (475 posts) -

I thought it was Crane the whole time, it was so out there I thought it was TOO obvious and there was going to be a twist at the end. I don't think he is the murderer but I do think he was up to some seriously creepy shit with Snow White lookalikes. Also when are we going to see full on Wolfman Bigby?! Are they going to keep teasing that at the end of every episode? :P

#89 Edited by Manhattan_Project (2162 posts) -

I thought it was Crane the whole time, it was so out there I thought it was TOO obvious and there was going to be a twist at the end. I don't think he is the murderer but I do think he was up to some seriously creepy shit with Snow White lookalikes. Also when are we going to see full on Wolfman Bigby?! Are they going to keep teasing that at the end of every episode? :P

Putting my money on the fifth or fourth episode having a moment similar to Lee murder-walking his way through that zombie crowd in WD.

#90 Edited by SunBroZak (1204 posts) -

Since I can't seem to pull myself away from this game, I'm going full speculation mode here.

I don't think Crane is the murderer, I think he's been framed. I do think that he has been living out a Snow White fantasy, sleeping with prostitutes made to look like her. I don't think someone went to the effort to glamour themselves as Crane, and it would explain the "massages" he would go for. I think once he found out that Faith was killed, he payed Dee & Dum to investigate the murders, perhaps also trying to cover up his connection to the prostitutes. Crane makes it clear in the car journey from the police station that he doesn't like that you're interrogating one of the brothers. Dee & Dum claim their on your side, which would make sense if Crane was trying to solve the murder before you so he could cover his back. Once he found out that Bigby discovered his sick obsession with Snow White's mundy story, of course he's run for it. Destroying the mirror to hide his tracks, and taking the lamp as insurance. It's just made too painfully obvious that he would be the prime suspect, and I don't believe Telltale would have the most obvious suspect be the killer.

So, out of the rest of the suspects (ignoring the brothers & the husband), I don't think Bluebeard, Woodsman or Georgie were murderers either. I think there's still plenty more for Georgie to tell us, particularly about the "discretion" spell that seems to be surrounding the prostitutes, but he doesn't strike me as the killer. A scumbag, but not a killer. While it would appear that Bluebeard has the most to gain out of framing Crane, as it appears that he is given Crane's position in the next episode, I don't think he is the killer. He has the past and the temper to make it seem conceivable, but I don't think he would go after prostitutes. In regards to the Woodsman, he seems too sympathetic. Which might lead to the twist of "oh no, he was the killer after all", but I think it's more likely that he'll get the axe. Not before he tells us more, though.

So, who do I think done it? Well, I find the conversation you have with TJ (Toad's son) interesting. When you press him for information about the night he discovered Lily's body, he claims that there was something shouting "Stop laughing at me", despite there not being anyone there who's laughing. This strikes me as someone who might have insecurities, perhaps about their appearance. And who would have reason to be insecure about their appearance? Maybe a crooked man.

The only thing that I can think of that would bring my theory crashing down, is that Dee & Dum were harassing Beauty about a loan she had to the Crooked Man. If they work solely for him, then I can't explain why Crane would be protective of the brothers in the car conversation, but not the Woodsman. Perhaps the Crooked Man has some dirt on Crane as well. Even then, The Crooked Man is my primary suspect.

#91 Posted by WalkerTR77 (1380 posts) -

I'm absolutely enthralled by The Wolf Among Us. From the hard boiled detective intrigue driven plot through the Drive meets Brothers Grimm aesthetic, it's just far more interesting to me than anything The Walking Dead ever attempted.

I was a little offput by the 4 month wait then a further 4 day postponement due to the season pass farce, but by the time the late title card cropped up I was entirely back onboard.

I really like Bigby as a character, not only is he some gruff and tumble mix of Solid Snake and Raylan Givens but he has such a rich history with each character. In every situation you feel the weight of the present case mixed with your past actions pressing all your decisions - especially since everyone has pretty defined preconceptions about what they expect you to do.

The scene with Bigby leaning on the pimp for information was just a classic pulp detective setup. Walking along the bar, dragging the bat along threatening to trash the place was a very Raylan moment that was a total pleasure to participate in.

Overall I am a little concerned that the overall murder investigation has too much setup an promise to really be fully delivered upon. Taking into account all the leeway afforded by the fantastical element of the setting (glamours allowing anyone to be credibly disguised as anyone else for example) I expect a Twin Peaks style unraveling of the central thread as we go on with an unsatisfying conclusion.

Still, as long as we get affecting small scale character interactions like the conversation with TJ and further intrigue - it's certainly going to be worth following through. Surely Telltale is aiming to adhere to a tighter release schedule going forward though?

#92 Posted by sometimesavowel (122 posts) -

My girlfriend brought up the theory the other day that it's the Headless Horseman and I was like "AH-HA OF COURSE!" And now that I see Ichabod Crane is somehow involved, it seems even more plausible.

#93 Posted by InsaneGenis (99 posts) -

@veektarius: You ever see Jack, just ignore his boisterous presence. Immediately when I saw him, from the comic book, I knew he was going to offend everyone and be an asshole. He is a "hero"/ good guy in the comic though and a main character of the series. Like a Tony Stark, but a huge dick and doesn't understand why everyone doesn't get his sense of humor.

He supports you and realizes you're being serious and stops joking when you don't throw him out.

#94 Posted by lord_canti (1517 posts) -

i feel bad for the first victim it seems like she will be forgotten over the next few episdoes because the story is now entirely about snow

#95 Posted by sometimesavowel (122 posts) -

@lord_canti: That's what they want to happen, then towards the end we'll all be like "She's ALIVE?!"

#96 Posted by BeachThunder (12094 posts) -

That ending seemed ultra-telegraphed =/ As soon as they were talking about how it must be some really creepy guy, the first thing I thought of was Crane, especially given how cagey he was acting before. Not to mention that they work together...

Guessing plot twists always seems like it will be great, but then it just feels disappointing when you actually get it right...

#97 Posted by lord_canti (1517 posts) -

@lord_canti: That's what they want to happen, then towards the end we'll all be like "She's ALIVE?!"

the regenerative property of fables is based on how there story's are remembered, her story is not told in modern times due to creepy moments and incest overtones. snow if she died for real would have probaly been back towards the end of this episode because she is one of the most famous fairy tales in the world today however im afraid faith is probably gone for good :(

#98 Edited by grapesoda (36 posts) -

Just finished episode two and I'm thinking that Crane is being framed but hes not totally innocent. I do believe he is seeing prostitutes and giving them cheap glamor to look like Snow White but killing them doesn't make sense. If I'm pointing fingers right now its at Bluebeard: Him and crane seem to be at odds with each other during the interrogation scene, according to his folktale hes killed multiple times in the past(not that he constantly needs to kill but he wouldn't have problems doing it.), and there was a little scene during the preview for the next episode where Bluebeard was sitting at Crane's desk with him saying something like "there's gonna be some changes around here.".

#99 Posted by bybeach (4898 posts) -

I got back into The wolf Among Us last night, and enjoyed it this time. I have nothing to add except the sentiment that Ichabod seems guilty of something. I thought he would be. But I think not all the murders, if any of them. Beast looks like he has a anger problem, but nothing to tie him to the murders to me, right now. But It won't be Crane I bet. Just the same the end of episode 2 did not surprise me at all. He is an asshole.

I played Bigby as fair. That is, he always gave the option out first before he acted. Seems to fit his character, and the world. Being violent is in his nature, but he is a thinker, also. And if you play him as such, the Wolf is actually a being with good, even noble intentions. Though those intentions and their motivations may be acquired, rather than how he started out.

Big Bad Wolf.

#100 Edited by csl316 (8975 posts) -

Since IGN apparently broke an embargo and briefly posted a 9.2 review of Episode 3 early (a high-watermark, apparently), I finally got around to playing part 2.

I enjoyed it, despite it mostly dealing with fallout. It was a cool ending that wasn't as surprising as the previous cliffhanger, but now it seems like the stakes are raised a bit. I'm still playing Bigby as a guy that means well but still has to deal with his nature (resulting in the occasional bottle across the face).

The aesthetic is still amazing. And...

EYE POKE!!

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