Could someone explain to me where the rape stuff is coming from?

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#1 Edited by benjaebe (2783 posts) -

**Spoilers for Heavy Rain, in case you're really slow and have never played it.**

I've been reading all over the place, most recently at Penny-Arcade, about how the new Tomb Raider is full of attempted rape, misogyny and uncomfortable violence against women. Now, I've watched all the trailers and gameplay that people have seen and I've seen none of that. All that comes to mind is one scene where a bad guy sort of puts his hand on Lara's hip and then she shoots him in the head. Wasn't there a similar scene in the first Mass Effect where you first meet Tali and the bad guys do something very similar? I don't understand why this time it's such a big deal. I mean, Heavy Rain, a game which I love dearly, didn't even get this kind of flack for having one of the main characters forced to strip at gunpoint, get attacked by robbers while she's in her underwear, get drugged and tied up by a crazy dentist who wants to drill her (quite literally), and in the DLC attacked and assaulted by a man who poses and stuffs dead women in his house. All of that sounds and looks a lot worse than what I've seen in the Tomb Raider trailers and gameplay.

Also, I know it's fun to make fun of how Lara is moaning and groaning all the time, but it seems pretty fitting for someone who is in her situation. People make fun of women's tennis too, but I don't really see a difference. I think people are really looking for excuses to make a big deal out of this game, honestly.

If there's something I missed in these trailers that is causing all this talk, please point it out to me.

#2 Posted by Hailinel (24431 posts) -

People are apparently uncomfortable with the idea of a woman having to defend herself against sexual assault.

Online
#3 Posted by Dagbiker (6974 posts) -

I think people dont think men can write strong woman.

#4 Posted by SuperSambo (2860 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

People are apparently uncomfortable with the idea of a woman having to defend herself against sexual assault.

I think it is more with the idea of watching that, which is uncomfortable.

#5 Posted by Subjugation (4720 posts) -

Unfortunately the internet is full of double standards and sensationalism. Tomb Raider looks to be the latest victim.

#6 Posted by Binman88 (3686 posts) -

Because people like to think they're on the "good side" of a cause, and go about it in disastrously incorrect ways. You will never convince them that they are wrong, so you might as well not even try, and avoid any debates on the topic lest you be branded a misogynist for advocating true equality ideals that they cannot comprehend.

#7 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

People whine about wanting to feel something when they play games. As soon as they get it, they don't want it anymore.

#8 Edited by Milkman (16698 posts) -

I'll admit that the first few times they showed this game around last E3, it was a little uncomfortable. But now that they've shown more of the game, I don't see what the problem is. 

#9 Edited by Animasta (14677 posts) -

I think the point is that if Lara did not shoot that guy in the head, well... It was just kinda uncomfortable. The fact that she's making a lot of moaning sounds is also a little weird, and can come off as torture porn-ish. I'm not saying it's any more or less misogynistic than games usually are, but still, it's a little more in your face in tomb raider. They're also probably not going to talk about the rape attempt in any decent capacity, rather sweeping it under the rug which is a little insensitive.

Also pretty sure plenty of people were angry about how women were portrayed in Heavy Rain.

edit: Heavy Rain is undoubtedly more misogynistic than Tomb Raider will be

#10 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@Animasta said:

I think the point is that if Lara did not shoot that guy in the head, well... It was just kinda uncomfortable. The fact that she's making a lot of moaning sounds is also a little weird, and can come off as torture porn-ish. I'm not saying it's any more or less misogynistic than games usually are, but still, it's a little more in your face in tomb raider. They're also probably not going to talk about the rape attempt in any decent capacity, rather sweeping it under the rug which is a little insensitive.

Also pretty sure plenty of people were angry about how women were portrayed in Heavy Rain.

I was upset about how human beings were portrayed in Heavy Rain.

#11 Posted by Animasta (14677 posts) -

@TentPole: true

#12 Posted by Omega (831 posts) -

I found this rare video of the bad guys from the latest Tomb Raider game being hired. We should have seen this coming.

#13 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@BraveToaster said:

People whine about wanting to feel something when they play games. As soon as they get it, they don't want it anymore.

Why is the thread still going after this comment? 
#14 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

People whine about wanting to feel something when they play games. As soon as they get it, they don't want it anymore.

Why is the thread still going after this comment?

Was my comment really that bad?

#15 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@BraveToaster said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

People whine about wanting to feel something when they play games. As soon as they get it, they don't want it anymore.

Why is the thread still going after this comment?

Was my comment really that bad?

No. I agree fully. People beg to feel more about the game they play. But as soon as you give it to them. Say the death of a main person they get out raged and throw hissy fits. 
#16 Posted by believer258 (11820 posts) -

*crosses arms*

I ain't sayin' shit on the matter until I hear the perspective of a woman or two, 'cause a bunch of men don't have quite the same say as to whether it's misogynistic or not as a bunch of women do mainly because they're, well, women.

Seriously, all I ever hear complaining about misogyny when a new game like this comes out are men. Fellows. Dudes. Yes, it's uncomfortable to watch. I hope you never get to see, say, Schindler's List.

On a different note, Nathan Drake and Isaac Clarke are at least two male video game protagonists who do a lot of grunting and moaning, and I'm pretty sure that Lara's older incarnations did some of that as well. At the end of Dead Space 2 Isaac Clarke has a bloody needle go through his eye and later gets an arrow spike thingy shot through both his hand and his upper chest; this isn't to mention all the really gory death animations. Nathan Drake gets shot and has to climb out of a falling train in Uncharted 2. You're telling me that men in games don't ever go through some crazy abuse?

#17 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4728 posts) -

I too haven't heard or seen the proclaimed sexuality in any of the Tomb Raider material released thus far. The fact that people are even considering that Lara's struggles are being sexualized in any way is creepy as fuck. Seriously. Stop it. Y'all are being super fucking creepy.

Seriously though. A person who can't tell the difference between a woman moaning in pain and a woman moaning in pleasure (i.e. sex, if you're doing it right) need to see a therapist. The only way you could possibly misconstrue the intent of the sound is if you've got some dark sexual desires in your subconscious that're bubbling to the surface. What these weirdos are seeing, I don't see at all. I see a bad-ass survivalist protagonist. Something old school like out of a Jack London story, except the big twist is that it's Lara Croft.

The Grey featuring Lara Croft sounds great to me, and not sexualized at all.

TL;DR - stop being creepy you fucking creepers.

#18 Edited by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

People whine about wanting to feel something when they play games. As soon as they get it, they don't want it anymore.

Why is the thread still going after this comment?

Was my comment really that bad?

No. I agree fully. People beg to feel more about the game they play. But as soon as you give it to them. Say the death of a main person they get out raged and throw hissy fits.

Yes. It seems like devs who enter this sort of territory can't win; it's no wonder why only a few of them dare to cross the line. How else is Lara supposed to sound when she's in that much pain?

#19 Posted by Animasta (14677 posts) -

@BraveToaster said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

People whine about wanting to feel something when they play games. As soon as they get it, they don't want it anymore.

Why is the thread still going after this comment?

Was my comment really that bad?

No. I agree fully. People beg to feel more about the game they play. But as soon as you give it to them. Say the death of a main person they get out raged and throw hissy fits.

Yes. It seems like devs who enter this sort of territory can't win; it's no wonder why only few of them dare to cross the line. How else is Lara supposed to sound when she's in that much pain?

well, moaning aside, I would love for a game to touch on rape in a mature, thoughtful, way. problem is, I don't see Tomb Raider being that game. If they just sweep Lara's rape attempt under the rug, that's worse than if they had never mentioned it at all.

#20 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4728 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@BraveToaster said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

People whine about wanting to feel something when they play games. As soon as they get it, they don't want it anymore.

Why is the thread still going after this comment?

Was my comment really that bad?

No. I agree fully. People beg to feel more about the game they play. But as soon as you give it to them. Say the death of a main person they get out raged and throw hissy fits.

Yes. It seems like devs who enter this sort of territory can't win; it's no wonder why only few of them dare to cross the line. How else is Lara supposed to sound when she's in that much pain?

well, moaning aside, I would love for a game to touch on rape in a mature, thoughtful, way. problem is, I don't see Tomb Raider being that game. If they just sweep Lara's rape attempt under the rug, that's worse than if they had never mentioned it at all.

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

#21 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@Oldirtybearon said:

@Animasta said:

@BraveToaster said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@BraveToaster said:

People whine about wanting to feel something when they play games. As soon as they get it, they don't want it anymore.

Why is the thread still going after this comment?

Was my comment really that bad?

No. I agree fully. People beg to feel more about the game they play. But as soon as you give it to them. Say the death of a main person they get out raged and throw hissy fits.

Yes. It seems like devs who enter this sort of territory can't win; it's no wonder why only few of them dare to cross the line. How else is Lara supposed to sound when she's in that much pain?

well, moaning aside, I would love for a game to touch on rape in a mature, thoughtful, way. problem is, I don't see Tomb Raider being that game. If they just sweep Lara's rape attempt under the rug, that's worse than if they had never mentioned it at all.

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

You know how people love to jump to conclusions. 
 
@Animasta said:


Would make a great revenge game. 
#22 Edited by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@Oldirtybearon said:

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

A dude grabs her thigh and then she fucking shanks him. is blowing it out of proportion.

Edit: He is grabbing her in a sexual aggressive manner to be sure.

#23 Edited by Animasta (14677 posts) -

@TentPole said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

A dude grabs her thigh and then she fucking shanks him. is blowing it out of proportion.

he was quite clearly groping her dude. It's not hard to figure out what would've happened if Lara had not shot the dude.

#24 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4728 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@TentPole said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

A dude grabs her thigh and then she fucking shanks him. is blowing it out of proportion.

he was quite clearly groping her dude.

Sexual harassment =/= rape. Rape is a vile, despicable thing and considering I've experienced it first hand, let me tell you someone copping a feel is not in the same fucking ballpark.

Sexual harassment sucks, it's shitty, but it is most definitely not rape.

#25 Posted by Animasta (14677 posts) -

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Animasta said:

@TentPole said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

A dude grabs her thigh and then she fucking shanks him. is blowing it out of proportion.

he was quite clearly groping her dude.

Sexual harassment =/= rape. Rape is a vile, despicable thing and considering I've experienced it first hand, let me tell you someone copping a feel is not in the same fucking ballpark.

Sexual harassment sucks, it's shitty, but it is most definitely not rape.

you're right, but it's still not hard to figure out what would've happened had Lara not got away. Do you really think he would've stopped at groping her above the shirt?

#26 Edited by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@TentPole said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

A dude grabs her thigh and then she fucking shanks him. is blowing it out of proportion.

he was quite clearly groping her dude. It's not hard to figure out what would've happened if Lara had not shot the dude.

Yeah, that came out wrong. It is sexual to be sure I just think that you are blowing it out of proportion regardless.

@Oldirtybearon said:

Sexual harassment =/= rape. Rape is a vile, despicable thing and considering I've experienced it first hand, let me tell you someone copping a feel is not in the same fucking ballpark.

Sexual harassment sucks, it's shitty, but it is most definitely not rape.

In all fairness the dude seems to have every intention of raping and then murdering her. The game isn't about Lara Croft getting a job at Walmart and having to deal with a gross asshole of a boss or anything like that.

#27 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4728 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Animasta said:

@TentPole said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

A dude grabs her thigh and then she fucking shanks him. is blowing it out of proportion.

he was quite clearly groping her dude.

Sexual harassment =/= rape. Rape is a vile, despicable thing and considering I've experienced it first hand, let me tell you someone copping a feel is not in the same fucking ballpark.

Sexual harassment sucks, it's shitty, but it is most definitely not rape.

you're right, but it's still not hard to figure out what would've happened had Lara not got away. Do you really think he would've stopped at groping her above the shirt?

It could have escalated to rape most definitely, but it didn't. Lara killed the fool. Smoked 'em. Hard. Claiming that there's rape in this game from the material we've seen is foolish. Lara gets groped, is sexually harassed, but she is most definitely not at any point raped. That's the thing I've taken issue with dude, how you used "rape" to describe a scene that is anything but. It's just factually incorrect.

besides, the scene was awesome. She smoked that fool hardcore.

#28 Posted by Klei (1768 posts) -

Well, armed men with low moral standards, stuck on an island, who stumbles upon a hot chick straight out of a softcore magazine. What do you expect, in a credible situation?

#29 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

DON'T TOUCH ME! NOTHING GIVES YOU THAT RIGHT!

#30 Posted by JasonR86 (9659 posts) -

@benjaebe:

In a video Lara defends herself from a guy who is feeling her up. 'Rape' is a strong word but it was certainly sexual assault. I don't get the 'feeling uncomfortable' part of this though. It does seem a little weird that every person on the bad side seems to be a man but, when it was Nathan Drake in a similar scenario (minus the sexual assault bit), no one raised any questions. I think people are just overly sensitive when women are involved. Plus it's a bunch of guys who seem to be weirded out and, in this instance, they're view on the uncomfortable-ness of the game is less important to me. I would like to see how a female journalist feels about the game.

#31 Posted by Animasta (14677 posts) -

@TentPole said:

@Animasta said:

@TentPole said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

A dude grabs her thigh and then she fucking shanks him. is blowing it out of proportion.

he was quite clearly groping her dude. It's not hard to figure out what would've happened if Lara had not shot the dude.

Yeah, that came out wrong. It is sexual to be sure I just think that you are blowing it out of proportion regardless.

maybe, I just don't see the point in it being there if it wasn't supposed to be a sort of attempted rape analogue at the very least. Why the sexual harassment towards her, why was he not just trying to kill her? Clearly she had been captured once, and she was stealthy enough to escape, so you should be trying to kill her or if you need her alive, to just detain her.

#32 Posted by Zlimness (554 posts) -

I don't think Tomb Raider should be compared with Heavy Rain in any way. Two completely different games in terms of genre and tone. Also I wouldn't single out the female characters in Heavy Rain as being particularly mistreated, because pretty much everyone in that game gets fucked up.So I don't think the violence towards the female character stands out when you look at the whole game and in context.

The Tomb Raider stuff is weird because you get the sense that the developers are putting her through so much _because_ she's a female protagonist. Like they're saying "Yeah you weren't expecting us to do this to her, right?!" It's obvious they're trying to ride on Uncharted's success and that includes what that series has put Nathan Drake through. He get's pretty beat up, but only just enough to make it seem like he's not a superhero. But the abuse Lara takes, seems almost comical. She can't just take a fall without getting impaled, can't parachute without hitting every tree on the way down and of course every enemy is a potential rapist as well. Everything that could go wrong, does and it does so times ten. I like the idea of a different Tomb Raider and the game looks nice anyway. But I don't think this way of portraying women and violence is that groundbreaking as the developers seem to think it is. Having seen The Descent, it has been handled sooo much better. It doesn't matter if it's a dude or dudette falling 50 feet in a dark cave, limbs will be broken regardless and we're not afraid to show it. But right now, the sole focus of the game seems to be "How many terrible things can we put Lara through". So I guess the potential rape was the thing that finally took it over the top.

#33 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4728 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@TentPole said:

@Animasta said:

@TentPole said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

but there wasn't an attempted rape. If you can show me where someone tries to rape Lara in any of the videos shown so far, please do. And if it's that one Bad Dude™ putting his hand on her hip, man, I don't even know.

A dude grabs her thigh and then she fucking shanks him. is blowing it out of proportion.

he was quite clearly groping her dude. It's not hard to figure out what would've happened if Lara had not shot the dude.

Yeah, that came out wrong. It is sexual to be sure I just think that you are blowing it out of proportion regardless.

maybe, I just don't see the point in it being there if it wasn't supposed to be a sort of attempted rape analogue at the very least. Why the sexual harassment towards her, why was he not just trying to kill her? Clearly she had been captured once, and she was stealthy enough to escape, so you should be trying to kill her or if you need her alive, to just detain her.

Because he's a man stuck on an island and there's a beautiful woman right under his fingers. You need to keep in mind that when humanity is stripped of laws and customs, civilization and culture, we can become the most brutal things on this planet. We as people struggle with our most base nature every day. When you have removed all of those mental/moral blocks in a Lord of the Flies scenario like Tomb Raider seems to have, you're not dealing with a man at that point, you're dealing with a savage animal.

Sexuality is a part of humanity, and the struggles, concerns, and narrative plights are different between men and women. Considering that 1-in-3 women have suffered some from of sexual abuse in the United States, it's not exactly responsible or mature of the studio to handle a very real situation that could happen in that scenario by ignoring it. She's a woman. She's pretty. She's also trying to survive on an island full of savage animals, both man and beast. I'd honestly be disappointed if they held that part of the scenario back because it might offend some people. Good. People should be offended. Whether it happens in a jungle or a parking lot, the fact is that this is something women have to deal with. I don't see why it shouldn't be used in a video game.

Especially when the Bad Dude™ gets his in such a visceral fashion.

#34 Posted by Phatmac (5725 posts) -

I understand why some people feel uncomfortable when they show questionable content like her moaning in pain and so no, but I think it's been unfortunately the main talk point about Tomb Raider. I'm just tired of people making it a big issue when it really isn't. Hopefully this dies down soon, the game has other points to be discussed.

#35 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

Can people stop replying to Animasta? Everything is sexist to him. Female Shepard being on the flip side of the ME3 cover was sexist to this person.

#36 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -

Because people.

#37 Edited by Animasta (14677 posts) -

@CL60 said:

Can people stop replying to Animasta? Everything is sexist to him. Female Shepard being on the flip side of the ME3 cover was sexist to this person.

I was being hyperbolic about it and that was like 5 months ago let it go dude (pst also i'm a lady)

@Oldirtybearon: Yes, women have to deal with sexual harassment, I know this. However, if they're not going to touch on that, about how terrible it is, whether it be a discussion between characters, inner monologue, whatever, than it's pointless, and I don't think they're going to bring it up after it happens. They may, but this is still a video game after all.

#38 Posted by Hailinel (24431 posts) -
@Animasta Dude paws Lara's thigh with signals of more to come and gets shanked by her for being a murderous pervert. What is there for Lara to discuss after the fact?
Online
#39 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

I don't know, she looks like she can handle herself to me. She fucking shot an arrow into a guys head.

#40 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4728 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@CL60 said:

Can people stop replying to Animasta? Everything is sexist to him. Female Shepard being on the flip side of the ME3 cover was sexist to this person.

I was being hyperbolic about it and that was like 5 months ago let it go dude (pst also i'm a lady)

@Oldirtybearon: Yes, women have to deal with sexual harassment, I know this. However, if they're not going to touch on that, about how terrible it is, whether it be a discussion between characters, inner monologue, whatever, than it's pointless, and I don't think they're going to bring it up after it happens. They may, but this is still a video game after all.

If there needs to be any sort of discussion as to how terrible sexual harassment/rape is, then there's a much bigger problem in western culture than those things being depicted in a video game. By a wide, wide margin. I don't see the point in having a discussion about it in-game. What are you hoping they're trying to achieve? The Bad Dude™ gropes Lara, she blasts the fool. I mean, if anything, the developers are providing wish-fulfillment from a victim's side of the equation. She gets to do something that most victims never get - she fends off her attacker and pumps lead into 'em. I'm not seeing the downside in its inclusion, nor am I seeing where you're hoping they go with this.

I'm enjoying this discussion, so please tell me what you're hoping for.

#41 Edited by Animasta (14677 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Animasta Dude paws Lara's thigh with signals of more to come and gets shanked by her for being a murderous pervert. What is there for Lara to discuss after the fact?

Then why IS it sexual harassment at that point? I'd feel for Lara just as much as if the dude was trying to kill her.

Well not that sexual harassment is BAD, perse, it's more that I'd like it if they touched on how much it fucks with you. Sure, someone trying to kill you is terrible as well, but games have been trying to kill you since the dawn of time. There haven't been too many games that have featured someone trying to molest another character, and I'd think it'd be a cool thing if they actually touched on it. Obviously I don't know if they would or not, they might touch on it with that later scene of Lara rescuing that other girl, but still.

#42 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Hailinel said:

@Animasta Dude paws Lara's thigh with signals of more to come and gets shanked by her for being a murderous pervert. What is there for Lara to discuss after the fact?

Then why IS it sexual harassment at that point? I'd feel for Lara just as much as if the dude was trying to kill her.

I don't understand what you are getting at here.

#43 Edited by iAmJohn (6117 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

@benjaebe:

In a video Lara defends herself from a guy who is feeling her up. 'Rape' is a strong word but it was certainly sexual assault. I don't get the 'feeling uncomfortable' part of this though. It does seem a little weird that every person on the bad side seems to be a man but, when it was Nathan Drake in a similar scenario (minus the sexual assault bit), no one raised any questions. I think people are just overly sensitive when women are involved. Plus it's a bunch of guys who seem to be weirded out and, in this instance, they're view on the uncomfortable-ness of the game is less important to me. I would like to see how a female journalist feels about the game.

Because there's no implications of Nathan Drake about to be sexually violated against his will before another scene of complete brutality. How is this so hard for you people to understand?

I'm sorry, but that kind of sexual violence makes me really uncomfortable. Couple it with the unflinchingly brutal. bordering on torture porn violence seen throughout every other parts of all the Tomb Raider demos, and you get a game that makes me very uncomfortable to look at. How is that hypocrisy? How is that a double-standard? You internet people are insane.

Not to mention that comparing the violence of the Uncharted series--which is less violent than Raiders of the Lost Ark, the film it's pretty much based on whole cloth--to the violence in any of the Tomb Raider demos is disingenuous and an false fucking equivalency as all hell.

#44 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (3859 posts) -

@Animasta: I don't really think that sitting down and having a discussion about how bad sexual harassment is really works with that narrative. She's stuck on an island full of bad guys, there's not a lot of time to sit down and talk about it. I think the majority of us just inherently know that its a bad thing and the dude who tries getting handsy with her is a bad guy and deserves it when she ganks him. Talking about it isn't really necessary in that story.

#45 Posted by benson (318 posts) -

@CL60 said:

Can people stop replying to Animasta? Everything is sexist to him. Female Shepard being on the flip side of the ME3 cover was sexist to this person.

Hahaha you're still angry about it

#46 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@iAmJohn said:

@JasonR86 said:

@benjaebe:

In a video Lara defends herself from a guy who is feeling her up. 'Rape' is a strong word but it was certainly sexual assault. I don't get the 'feeling uncomfortable' part of this though. It does seem a little weird that every person on the bad side seems to be a man but, when it was Nathan Drake in a similar scenario (minus the sexual assault bit), no one raised any questions. I think people are just overly sensitive when women are involved. Plus it's a bunch of guys who seem to be weirded out and, in this instance, they're view on the uncomfortable-ness of the game is less important to me. I would like to see how a female journalist feels about the game.

Because there's no implications of Nathan Drake about to be sexually violated against his will before another scene of complete brutality. How is this so hard for you people to understand?

I'm sorry, but that kind of sexual violence makes me really uncomfortable. Couple it with the unflinchingly brutal. bordering on torture porn violence seen throughout every other parts of all the Tomb Raider demos, and you get a game that makes me very uncomfortable to look at. How is that hypocrisy? How is that a double-standard? You internet people are insane.

So if something makes you uncomfortable then it should not exist?

#47 Posted by iAmJohn (6117 posts) -

@TentPole: Name a single time in which I have said that Tomb Raider should not exist. Oh wait that's right, you can't.

#48 Posted by Animasta (14677 posts) -

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@Animasta: I don't really think that sitting down and having a discussion about how bad sexual harassment is really works with that narrative. She's stuck on an island full of bad guys, there's not a lot of time to sit down and talk about it. I think the majority of us just inherently know that its a bad thing and the dude who tries getting handsy with her is a bad guy and deserves it when she ganks him. Talking about it isn't really necessary in that story.

I don't need some 3 minute conversation, I'd appreciate a simple sentence at least. Lara Croft is supposed to be messed up by all of this, from what I know of the premise, and this is what turns her from some normal person into that cocky badass who kills animals in tombs for sport.

#49 Edited by JasonR86 (9659 posts) -

@iAmJohn said:

@JasonR86 said:

@benjaebe:

In a video Lara defends herself from a guy who is feeling her up. 'Rape' is a strong word but it was certainly sexual assault. I don't get the 'feeling uncomfortable' part of this though. It does seem a little weird that every person on the bad side seems to be a man but, when it was Nathan Drake in a similar scenario (minus the sexual assault bit), no one raised any questions. I think people are just overly sensitive when women are involved. Plus it's a bunch of guys who seem to be weirded out and, in this instance, they're view on the uncomfortable-ness of the game is less important to me. I would like to see how a female journalist feels about the game.

Because there's no implications of Nathan Drake about to be sexually violated against his will before another scene of complete brutality. How is this so hard for you people to understand?

I'm sorry, but that kind of sexual violence makes me really uncomfortable. Couple it with the unflinchingly brutal. bordering on torture porn violence seen throughout every other parts of all the Tomb Raider demos, and you get a game that makes me very uncomfortable to look at. How is that hypocrisy? How is that a double-standard? You internet people are insane.

Not to mention that comparing the violence of the Uncharted series--which is less violent than Raiders of the Lost Ark, the film it's pretty much based on whole cloth--to the violence in any of the Tomb Raider demos is disingenuous and an false fucking equivalency as all hell.

I said minus the sexual assault bit. The brutality and violence, well, do you remember Uncharted 2 and 3? It doesn't seem as brutal because Drake is more jovial and light hearted about the shit he takes then Lara. But the dude gets fucked up in those games. What people are noticing is the tone change. The nature of the violence is very similar to me though. What Crystal D is trying to show is how Lara became so hard-edged and, to get there, she has to go through some shit.

#50 Posted by Ursus_Veritas (383 posts) -

Whilst I do find some of the stuff they've show of the game to be uncomfortable, it's not because Lara Croft is a woman that makes me uncomfortable with it - I'd feel the same level of discomfort if it was, say, Nathan Drake. It's more like the constant barrage they've put her in the trailers that is kind of crazy and uncomfortable. I mean, She falls from being strung up in a dank cave (which she gets out of by SETTING HERSELF ON FIRE) to get gored by a stake on the ground, she gets attacked by a wolf, knocked unconscious by enemy dudes, Foot in a bear trap, sexual harassment that leads to her shooting (what is implied by the trailer's voice over) her first human victim point blank in the face... then at MS's conference we see her just being flung about left right and centre, smacking into branches, failing parachutes and being almost crushed by a falling plane!   
 
The insane level of bad shit that happens to her over the course of what we've seen in the footage so far is what makes me uncomfortable, not 'oh Lara is a lady so she can't be hurt, where's the big strong man to take care of all this'. It's almost gotten comical to me to see just what they do to the poor girl next! I just kind of want to see game footage of her sitting down and having a nice cup of tea or something, just to balance it out.

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