The issue WHY sexual violence is being used

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Posted by hawkinson76 (354 posts) -

(reposted from another thread) It is the kind of violence. Sure Nathan Drake, Batman, even the original Laura get the shit kicked out of them, maybe even tortured, but they are never been threatened with rape. Or even taking the (overt) sex out of it, a bad guy hasn't slowly slid a knife over Indiana Jones's bare skin , maybe drawing a little blood, while cooing/growling in a low voice, describing what he is about to do to him.

Think of all the male action characters in films and games. What the percentage of them have faced the threat of rape? Now think of every female in those movies and games, and how many have them have been sexually threatened. The difference is vast, huge, division by freaking zero.

Why is it so different? It certainly isn't because of reality, sexual assault of males is common enough. This is where sexism, probably unconscious sexism, comes into play on the part of both game designers and gamers.

Why is the threat of rape so rarely used on male characters? Rape isn't something you want your avatar to be threatened with, you won't come away from that situation feeling empowered, so designers leave it out, including instead the kind of punishment that is empowering, like getting punched in the face and showing you can take it.

And so we are left with the question: Is this game pushing the boundries by confronting (mostly male) players with the threat of rape (that would be neat), or is it that Laura isn't meant to be an avatar for male players at all, but rather an object, a device to keep the game moving forward, like Elika in Prince of Persia? If it is the latter, then I'm with Jeff, Fuck that game.

That said, I think there is room for that kind of grittiness in both film and video games with male or female avatars. I'd like to see it in a game like Yakuza, where I could be compelled (as the player) to accept torture, sexual exploitation, etc as a matter of honor. But that is pure genre fiction, not aiming for the mainstream (although they sometimes break through, like Kill Bill).

#1 Posted by hawkinson76 (354 posts) -

(reposted from another thread) It is the kind of violence. Sure Nathan Drake, Batman, even the original Laura get the shit kicked out of them, maybe even tortured, but they are never been threatened with rape. Or even taking the (overt) sex out of it, a bad guy hasn't slowly slid a knife over Indiana Jones's bare skin , maybe drawing a little blood, while cooing/growling in a low voice, describing what he is about to do to him.

Think of all the male action characters in films and games. What the percentage of them have faced the threat of rape? Now think of every female in those movies and games, and how many have them have been sexually threatened. The difference is vast, huge, division by freaking zero.

Why is it so different? It certainly isn't because of reality, sexual assault of males is common enough. This is where sexism, probably unconscious sexism, comes into play on the part of both game designers and gamers.

Why is the threat of rape so rarely used on male characters? Rape isn't something you want your avatar to be threatened with, you won't come away from that situation feeling empowered, so designers leave it out, including instead the kind of punishment that is empowering, like getting punched in the face and showing you can take it.

And so we are left with the question: Is this game pushing the boundries by confronting (mostly male) players with the threat of rape (that would be neat), or is it that Laura isn't meant to be an avatar for male players at all, but rather an object, a device to keep the game moving forward, like Elika in Prince of Persia? If it is the latter, then I'm with Jeff, Fuck that game.

That said, I think there is room for that kind of grittiness in both film and video games with male or female avatars. I'd like to see it in a game like Yakuza, where I could be compelled (as the player) to accept torture, sexual exploitation, etc as a matter of honor. But that is pure genre fiction, not aiming for the mainstream (although they sometimes break through, like Kill Bill).

#2 Posted by TheHT (10880 posts) -

By virtue of being the player-controlled character, I'm going to relate to Lara as I would with any other player-controlled character (provided they're not incredibly off-putting I suppose) despite what that dev thinks.

Online
#3 Edited by TentPole (1858 posts) -

People just want videogames to remain teenage power fantasies forever I guess. But until we can have serious issues in our games without people losing there fucking minds that is all we will get.

#4 Posted by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -

Shawshank redemption. Dudebro gets raped all the time. Good movie

#5 Edited by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@TheHumanDove said:

Shawshank redemption. Dudebro gets raped all the time. Good movie

  • Pulp Fiction
  • Deliverance
  • American History X
  • Lawrence of Arabia
  • Valhalla Rising

Just off the top of my head. All great films.

#6 Posted by konig_kei (596 posts) -

The kite runner, never saw the movie but the book is pretty....graphic.

#7 Posted by hawkinson76 (354 posts) -
@TheHumanDove

Shawshank redemption. Dudebro gets raped all the time. Good movie

Yes, and American History X had an intersting (story wise) male rape scene, but those films aren't likely to inspire video games. Kill Bill had rape, of a woman, and I know a lot of mainstream women who loved the films, so it is definitely possible to include it in action movies and games without turning off your audience.
#8 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

@TentPole said:

People just want videogames to remain teenage power fantasies forever I guess. But until we can have serious issues in our games without people losing there fucking minds that is all we will get.

My thoughts exactly. I'm all for both sexes being portrayed in any number of ways (equally), but the fact that this game is getting so much undue criticism is really just sad. It shows how truly immature everyone involved in this industry can be. There isn't a single thing sexist about what Tomb Raider is doing, and the fact that we can't live in a world where these guys create the mature, adult story they want without people flipping shit is just depressing for those of us who want to see this industry move forward. I've said this many times, and I'm going to say it again. Everyone flipping out is just sending a message to all creators of games to make their characters male, because if they try to tell a serious story with a female lead character, there is a much greater chance of people flipping out over a mature part of their narrative.

It baffles me how this Tomb Raider thing has been taken so negatively. If anything, people should be happy these guys are trying to create a female lead character with a unique story who runs into serious situations that have never really been dealt with in a video game before. Instead, everyone is actually hurting the cause they are trying to support by flipping out. This is really a time where lack of reasoning and the ability to evaluate ones self and ones own personal stance really gets in the way of what everyone is trying to achieve. If everyone would just act like adults by taking a step back and actually evaluate the situation, maybe we could actually get some progress. As it is, it's similar to what happened with Mass Effect. Everyone is really pissed off about something related to games, but before stepping back, cooling off, and evaluating the situation, everyone decides to act immediately in the most instinctual way possible, and there is little evaluation of those initial feelings from then on, so everyone just runs with it.

#9 Posted by hawkinson76 (354 posts) -
@TentPole

@TheHumanDove said:

Shawshank redemption. Dudebro gets raped all the time. Good movie

  • Pulp Fiction
  • Deliverance
  • American History X
  • Lawrence of Arabia
  • Valhalla Rising

Just off the top of my head. All great films.

Deliverance! If that was the promise of the new Tomb Raider I would be all in, ALL IN I SAY. I am very, very doubtful they will handle it that well I am thinking itll be closer to Straw Dogs, gross.
#10 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@hawkinson76 said:

@TentPole

@TheHumanDove said:

Shawshank redemption. Dudebro gets raped all the time. Good movie

  • Pulp Fiction
  • Deliverance
  • American History X
  • Lawrence of Arabia
  • Valhalla Rising

Just off the top of my head. All great films.

Deliverance! If that was the promise of the new Tomb Raider I would be all in, ALL IN I SAY. I am very, very doubtful they will handle it that well I am thinking itll be closer to Straw Dogs, gross.

I am thinking it is not even going to be more than a two second lustful look. We should be able to handle that without flipping out.

#11 Posted by Silver-Streak (1338 posts) -

I think there's a major problem with both sides of the Tomb Raider argument:

As far as Tomb Raider advancement goes, Everyone is acting like the potential/attempted rape is what starts her growth as a character, which we have no way of knowing at this point, maybe she's already started becoming self-empowered throughout the game, nearly gets raped, and her becoming this badass beforehand is what allows her to stop it rather than simply submit to the will of the agressor. On top of that, just because rape /isn't/ the only way, nor best way, to show growth of a female character, it's also something that, to my knowledge, has not been done before. Acting like the idea that someone can have growth as a person by surviving or narrowly escaping rape is impossible belittles the women and men who have done just that in reality. Shunning the discussion of horrible acts such as rape and the survival of it, rather than shunning the act itself, is what causes so many women and men to simply not report when they've been raped in the first place.

On the other hand, while Crystal Dynamics is awesome, a lot of their comments about "you'll want to protect her" and their decision to highlight the rape itself is kinda retarded, they've sort of brought a lot of the hate on themselves.

As far as people complaining about the Hitman trailer. There is 0 things to do about rape in that trailer. Stripper nuns came to kill 47. 47 instead killed stripper nuns. The only thing that should be complained about that trailer is that it's terrible in general, and in no way represents the awesomeness of Hitman.

Rape is a horrific and unjustifiable crime. However, I'm of the opinion that taking anything remotely sexual that also has anything remotely violent around it and acting like it empowers rapists is retarded.

Rape culture is such an inane concept that it makes the discussion and emotional impact of rape belittled. If you want to stop rape, then talk about how to deal with it. Lumping such a huge thing as Rape in with a billion minor things that are really totally unrelated to rape, makes Rape seem just as minor.

These are just my opinions, and you are entitled to your own opinions. (Besides the opinion that Rape is good. In which case, fuck you.),

#12 Posted by JordanK85 (140 posts) -

Can games as a medium even tackle rape effectively? Sure rape can be addressed in the narrative of a game but games as a medium are defined by interaction. Rape as an interaction is an interesting case because, by definition, one of the parties doesn't have any meaningful input or choice. That means if the player character is the one being raped then there is no player choice and really isn't an interaction. All the interactive possibilities are on the side of the rapist and this probably isn't a role you would want to place the player. You could place the player in the role of a victim in an attempted rape but then do you really want rape as a failure state? Maybe this is one of those subjects that games can't really address. Maybe Roger Ebert was right and games can't be art.

Note: None of what I write here is meant to trivialize the very serious matter of rape.

#13 Edited by theveej (812 posts) -

@DoctorWelch: Yep totally agree

@TentPole: was gonna bring up bunch of those movies. For me personally Pulp Fiction was the first of those movies listed that I watch, and the rape scene in it was def something shocking to me.

I'm perfectly ok witht he direction the new Tomb Raider game is going. If you want a "mature", "gritty", Tomb Raider origin game, I would imagine it would look something like what they have shown. Island of crazy criminal males, there is bound to be atleast 1 bad guy getting the urge to sexually assualt a young attractive women. The other thing I like to bring up about this topic is the movie Haywire, which perfectly shows how a semi realistic and gritty movie can be lead by a female heroine. The main charecter in that movie, played by mma fighter gina carano, gets fucked up badly in the action scene like really badly (I know a lot of people who were taken back by the stuff happening to her even in a PG-14 movie) but she also kicks a whole lot of ass and is a bad ass hero. Even if her character is a well trained bad ass assassin, she is only a 150-160 pound women fighting 200+ pound trained killers who are men. There are certain physical advantages that she has to concede, and therefore gets her ass kicked a lot during the fight/chase scenes; but doesnt mean she is helpless or not bad ass. So when Crystal Dynamic tells me that this is an orgin story which is mature, about a relatively untrained Lara Croft going through and surviving an island full of crazy people and becoming a bad ass hero by the end; the sexual violence and "attempted rape scene" just seems part of the course if thats the game they are pitching.

The quote from Tomb Raider PR guy saying they want to put Lara through these ordeals so the player "cares" for her more is of course not the right way to approach it, but there is an element of truth in it. Look at any horror movie, in most the lead character is always a helpless young girl who eventually survives through the horror and violence. People have the right to be angry about that sort of stuff, but that also happens a lot in movies and even books; also I will give the game the benefit of the doubt and play it for myself first before jumping to the conclusion. The game looks good, and I dig what I have seen from it.

#14 Posted by hawkinson76 (354 posts) -
@TentPole we have already seen the scene that is at issue, so i am not talking about the intensity of that particular scene. What interests me is the overall arc of being transformed (or at least being forced to question) by the need to survive. That did Not come across in all the demos shown at E3, which was more an assembly of "oh shit" moments.
#15 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

Male rape comes up all the time. It's used as a threat all the time. Your argument is invalid. I would go so far as to say the threat of rape is used more against men than women in media.

#16 Posted by NMC2008 (1231 posts) -

Are there about to be a bunch of topics about this subject?

#17 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

@TentPole said:

People just want videogames to remain teenage power fantasies forever I guess. But until we can have serious issues in our games without people losing there fucking minds that is all we will get.

fuck man, I would love for this game to tackle rape with the gravitas it deserves, but the comments made by the developers have done nothing to make me think that it'd be portrayed well.

#18 Posted by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -

@NMC2008 said:

Are there about to be a bunch of topics about this subject?

We're trending, bro. Roll with it

#20 Posted by jakob187 (21642 posts) -

@hawkinson76 said:

@TentPole

@TheHumanDove said:

Shawshank redemption. Dudebro gets raped all the time. Good movie

  • Pulp Fiction
  • Deliverance
  • American History X
  • Lawrence of Arabia
  • Valhalla Rising

Just off the top of my head. All great films.

Deliverance! If that was the promise of the new Tomb Raider I would be all in, ALL IN I SAY. I am very, very doubtful they will handle it that well I am thinking itll be closer to Straw Dogs, gross.

There are a LOT of movies beyond the few listed throughout this. The difference is in whether it is attempted to be glorified or used to show massive emotional trauma that leads to the character overcoming adversity. I Spit On Your Grave is a prime example of glorifying rape by offsetting it with bloody revenge. Meanwhile, you look at something like American History X and it shows a progression of character, how this guy who thought he was bulletproof now shows humility and humanity.

The same can be said between the two different Straw Dogs films. In Peckinpah's original, it was an incredibly ambiguous scene due to the way that Susan George played it. There has always been a level of controversy about whether she showed an emotional response of acceptance within the scene, but overall, the scene wasn't even ABOUT that. It was about the violation of a man's home, a man in particular who was something of a wuss and took no action of his own when threatened. If anything, the scene itself was the catalyst for the change in Hoffman's character. Meanwhile, the remake was nothing more than a glorification of two "pretty" people having violent and unwanted sex in a generally unwanted movie. There was little to do with emotional response in it.

A Serbian Tale is another film that I feel just glorifies rape as a way to say "ISN'T THIS SHOCKING OH WOW". It's both a terrible film and utterly pointless beyond being violent and shocking for the sake of being violent and shocking. Meanwhile, looking at a film like Irreversible, you see a change in Monica Belluci's character and the amount of terror that she goes through. It's a very long and drawn out scene, but one that has a purpose. It's not trying to glorify anything. Monica struggles the entire time, and afterwards, we see the trauma she goes through.

I don't think that something like this should necessarily be off-limits in gaming. I mean, if you want to be considered as an art, you need to allow ANYTHING. However, you need to understand WHY you are putting it into your game. If they are talking about having Lara be raped, the question I would ask is "why is that happening". Is there an actual reason for it? Is it just a cutscene to say "here's Lara being raped, now she's pissed"? That would be dumb. It would also be stupid and rather insulting to turn it into a context-sensitive button masher where you are trying to escape, much to the effect of something like MGS4's infamous microwave sequence. I could understand why they would do that: it gives the player the understanding through mashing the shit out the buttons that it's a struggle. At the same time, putting a player in direct control of something like that seems like you are giving them the opportunity to participate...and there's just too many people that would get off on it more than try to prevent it...sadly enough.

In turn, I would say this: there's literally no point from either a gameplay angle, a situational angle, or a character angle that there needs to be sexual violence in Tomb Raider, especially since Lara is a character that has been sexually idolized by the gaming public for a long time. You are merely feeding into the wet dreams of a million gamers at that point in the worst way possible.

Instead, if you wanted to bring rape or sexual violence into a video game in a meaningful way that can have an effect on players to say "yo, this is fucked up", it would probably be best implemented with a new character of some form that we go on a heavy emotional journey with and get attached to, then find this horrible thing happening that we cannot prevent. If anything, the way that the "Jenny kill" in The Darkness played out - a cutscene in real-time gameplay engine that you were held back from and could do nothing to prevent - would probably produce the results that any developer would (hopefully) be aiming for.

Then again, when you know that games like RapeLay exist, it's kind of hard to actually not think the gaming industry will just glorify sexual violence as much as possible.

#21 Posted by Brodehouse (9585 posts) -

The fact that Lara cries out in pain when she's injured makes people (sadly, even our own Bomb Crew) assume that she's moaning like a whore bothers me to no end. The assumption that she's breathing haggard, heavy breaths in order to sexually titillate you, not because that's a natural reaction to having a stick driven through your side. That's completely awful. Like seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?

I've seriously considered sending Patrick a private message or his twitter and asking if he can tell the difference between someone crying out in sexual climax or in agonizing pain.

#22 Posted by jakob187 (21642 posts) -

@Brodehouse: To the defense of those users, her moans and groans of pain DO sound that way. Even I hear that, even though I've tried not to. They really should redo the voice work for that stuff.

#23 Posted by believer258 (11631 posts) -

Guys.

Can we wait until the fucking game is out first?

#24 Posted by Godlyawesomeguy (6386 posts) -

The thing is that- the bad guy threatening a male character with rape is less likely because a lower percent of the population is gay/bisexual compared to heterosexuals. Now, could there be some of that "empowerment" aspect in the game designers choice? Sure, but women are seen as much more fragile, and sexually-appealing than men in the context of an action video game (in which the vast majority of the audience are males) and it makes a lot more sense for a male bad guy to want to rape an attractive woman such as Laura Croft as opposed to, I don't know, Batman.

#25 Posted by jakob187 (21642 posts) -

@believer258 said:

Guys.

Can we wait until the fucking game is out first?

This is the internet. Nothing needs to be released for people to converse. Moreover, I think that the conversation that has BEEN occurring is being handled in a fairly mature manner rather than the natural devolution that most threads end up falling into. Therefore, I don't see what the issue is.

#26 Posted by Hunter5024 (5541 posts) -

@believer258 said:

Guys.

Can we wait until the fucking game is out first?

THANK YOU

Online
#27 Edited by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@hawkinson76 said:

@TentPole we have already seen the scene that is at issue, so i am not talking about the intensity of that particular scene. What interests me is the overall arc of being transformed (or at least being forced to question) by the need to survive. That did Not come across in all the demos shown at E3, which was more an assembly of "oh shit" moments.

@jakob187 said:

In turn, I would say this: there's literally no point from either a gameplay angle, a situational angle, or a character angle that there needs to be sexual violence in Tomb Raider, especially since Lara is a character that has been sexually idolized by the gaming public for a long time. You are merely feeding into the wet dreams of a million gamers at that point in the worst way possible.

Instead, if you wanted to bring rape or sexual violence into a video game in a meaningful way that can have an effect on players to say "yo, this is fucked up", it would probably be best implemented with a new character of some form that we go on a heavy emotional journey with and get attached to, then find this horrible thing happening that we cannot prevent. If anything, the way that the "Jenny kill" in The Darkness played out - a cutscene in real-time gameplay engine that you were held back from and could do nothing to prevent - would probably produce the results that any developer would (hopefully) be aiming for.

But you don't need to spend a whole game contemplating a two second scene. You don't even need two seconds. Plenty of great films and books hint at rape or depict it outright without dwelling on it and they do so without trivializes rape in any way.

There is a place for stories that tackle that subject but the idea that any mention of rape is taboo for every other story is bullshit. Some examples (including ones that I have already mentioned) are American History X, Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, Gran Torino, Kill Bill, and Gladiator. They all have rape without needing to dwell on it or carefully tackle the resulting emotional trauma. or explain themselves. Not because they are trying tomake light of rape but because it is not relevant to the story to do so. For this they do not apologize. Why should videogames be any different?

And that is only films with actual rape. If we are going to include films that merely imply the possibility of rape for a couple seconds, without expounding on the topic, we are putting this game in the heinous company of films such as Spiderman.

#28 Posted by TheFreeMan (2712 posts) -
@TentPole said:

we are putting this game in the heinous company of films such as Spiderman.

I'm not trying to be snarky and I dunno if this is a joke or not, it's been a long time since I've seen Spider-Man. Where was rape in that movie?
#29 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@TheFreeMan: No rape. i said implied rape.

It is the scene in which Mary Jane is getting jumped in an alleyway in the rain. One of the muggers makes obscene licking motions with his tongue and the implication is definitely there. The scene ends with the famous upside down nipple shirt kiss and completely sidesteps what just happens and that is perfectly okay.

#30 Posted by JasonR86 (9608 posts) -

What is up with the internet lately?

#31 Posted by TheFreeMan (2712 posts) -

@TentPole: My mistake, I misread your post. Thanks for explaining anyways, though.

#32 Edited by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

What is up with the internet lately?

As of this moment the internet is being offended by your insensitive question of "what's up with the internet", let's discuss this.

#33 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

You're right. I only want meaningful rape in my games.

#34 Edited by MarkWahlberg (4578 posts) -

@hawkinson76 said:

Deliverance! If that was the promise of the new Tomb Raider I would be all in, ALL IN I SAY.

Bruce Reynolds: Original Year of the Bow

I assume that's what you mean, as opposed to "Press X to squeal like a pig."

#35 Posted by psylah (2162 posts) -

In one of the PS3 Yakuza games, Kazuma Kiryu can end up in a street fight with a rather large transsexual man, that if you lose, the game implies that you were raped by him. He says "that was rougher that any time in the joint" and "no one must know about this".

It's played comedically, but still, pretty rapey.

This whole thing is definitely blown out of proportion, the guy touches her arm, and she makes sure he knows her advances are not wanted. Done and done. What do these people want, should we revert to back when games had no stories? Because apparently you can't have a narrative without pissing EVERYONE the fuck off.

#36 Posted by artgarcrunkle (970 posts) -

@psylah said:

In one of the PS3 Yakuza games, Kazuma Kiryu can end up in a street fight with a rather large transsexual man, that if you lose, the game implies that you were raped by him. He says "that was rougher that any time in the joint" and "no one must know about this".

It's played comedically, but still, pretty rapey.

This whole thing is definitely blown out of proportion, the guy touches her arm, and she makes sure he knows her advances are not wanted. Done and done. What do these people want, should we revert to back when games had no stories? Because apparently you can't have a narrative without pissing EVERYONE the fuck off.

Are the Japanese as caught up in flaunting their faux-outrage as the western world?

#37 Posted by NMC2008 (1231 posts) -

@believer258:

No, that would make too much sense, let's rage now and rage some more when the game comes out, double rage!

#38 Posted by psylah (2162 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

The fact that Lara cries out in pain when she's injured makes people (sadly, even our own Bomb Crew) assume that she's moaning like a whore bothers me to no end. The assumption that she's breathing haggard, heavy breaths in order to sexually titillate you, not because that's a natural reaction to having a stick driven through your side.

It gives me the impression that they have little sense of context.

#39 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

I think the average gamer age has increased alot that this kind of stuff should be expected. Now alot of reviewers will go into this game with wanting to hate it, like they do with alot of games.

#40 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

The fact that Lara cries out in pain when she's injured makes people (sadly, even our own Bomb Crew) assume that she's moaning like a whore bothers me to no end. The assumption that she's breathing haggard, heavy breaths in order to sexually titillate you, not because that's a natural reaction to having a stick driven through your side. That's completely awful. Like seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?

I've seriously considered sending Patrick a private message or his twitter and asking if he can tell the difference between someone crying out in sexual climax or in agonizing pain.

I completly agree with this, I've heard them say this multiple times on the Bombcast which is completly sexist. With that notion any Gears of War, Uncharted or COD game is gay porn sound effects.

#41 Posted by Draugen (628 posts) -

@TentPole said:

People just want videogames to remain teenage power fantasies forever I guess. But until we can have serious issues in our games without people losing there fucking minds that is all we will get.

The problem is that it's never been handled deftly in video games even when they've tried, meaning that it will always tumble into exploitative or cartoonish territory. Even Heavy Rain, which was supposed to be a counter to the teenage power fantasies by telling a dark, adult story was extremely clumsy whenever it approached the subject of sexualised violence. Though I would be interested to see them pull it off, I have seen nothing so far to indicate that Tomb Raider will attack the subject with anything less than sledghammer-like subtlety.

#42 Posted by Blannir (243 posts) -

Seriously what is going on with all this nonsense over a culture of rape and sexism in games because Lara groans and there's implied rape in the new Tomb Raider trailer. News flash Alice: Madness Returns had rape and child prostitution in it and I don't recall everyone losing their shit about it.

#43 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

The reason video games aren't more then Male fantasy's is because that's all people ever say they are. They will never become anything more unless we allow them to make mistakes.

#44 Posted by psylah (2162 posts) -

@artgarcrunkle said:

@psylah said:

In one of the PS3 Yakuza games, Kazuma Kiryu can end up in a street fight with a rather large transsexual man, that if you lose, the game implies that you were raped by him. He says "that was rougher that any time in the joint" and "no one must know about this".

It's played comedically, but still, pretty rapey.

This whole thing is definitely blown out of proportion, the guy touches her arm, and she makes sure he knows her advances are not wanted. Done and done. What do these people want, should we revert to back when games had no stories? Because apparently you can't have a narrative without pissing EVERYONE the fuck off.

Are the Japanese as caught up in flaunting their faux-outrage as the western world?

Japan don't give a FUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuck.

Also, I think Fauxtrage should be a word.

#45 Posted by psylah (2162 posts) -

@Blannir said:

Seriously what is going on with all this nonsense over a culture of rape and sexism in games because Lara groans and there's implied rape in the new Tomb Raider trailer. News flash Alice: Madness Returns had rape and child prostitution in it and I don't recall everyone losing their shit about it.

For all that happened in that game, I was SUPREMELY PISSED at how quickly the guy died at the end. He deserved a slower, more painful death.

#46 Posted by Blannir (243 posts) -

@psylah said:

@Blannir said:

Seriously what is going on with all this nonsense over a culture of rape and sexism in games because Lara groans and there's implied rape in the new Tomb Raider trailer. News flash Alice: Madness Returns had rape and child prostitution in it and I don't recall everyone losing their shit about it.

For all that happened in that game, I was SUPREMELY PISSED at how quickly the guy died at the end. He deserved a slower, more painful death.

I don't know, I kinda liked how he was ranting on about he was untouchable due to his standing in society and Alice just casually pushes him in front of a train with a smirk on her face. I found it very satisfying, he didn't deserve some grand finale just gone in a flash like the trash that he was.

#47 Posted by Bloodrush545 (50 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

The reason video games aren't more then Male fantasy's is because that's all people ever say they are. They will never become anything more unless we allow them to make mistakes.

I couldn't agree with you more. Rarely does a medium venture into new subject matter and handle it well in its first few attempts.

#48 Posted by mitsuko_souma (135 posts) -

In video games you're normally playing a hero that has to dispatch countless numbers of bad or evil people. Real life murderers and such would not even flinch at raping or threatening to rape a woman. If a real life Lara Croft was up against 100 real life murderers and other people with nonexistant morals, how many of those people would potentially rape her? I'm going to say an overwhelming majority probably would if the opportunity presented itself.

So if anything, there is far less rape in video games then there would be in real life situations. But of course, most video game situations would never happen so this is all hypothetical.

#49 Posted by DeF (4799 posts) -

@TheHumanDove said:

Shawshank redemption. Dudebro gets raped all the time. Good movie

Let's add Oz to that. 24/7 rapefest, that show was. Comes with the prison setting though, I guess^^

Why don't male characters in games never get threatened with "rape"? Well, simply because the bad dudes are pretty much always male as well.

This Tomb Raper thing gets totally over-dramatized based on badly worded public statements and over-sensitive knee-jerk reactions to a trailer. Let's all just shut up and wait until the game comes out so we can all look at these things in context and judge the game based on that instead!

#50 Posted by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

@Eujin said:

I think there's a major problem with both sides of the Tomb Raider argument:

As far as Tomb Raider advancement goes, Everyone is acting like the potential/attempted rape is what starts her growth as a character, which we have no way of knowing at this point, maybe she's already started becoming self-empowered throughout the game, nearly gets raped, and her becoming this badass beforehand is what allows her to stop it rather than simply submit to the will of the agressor. On top of that, just because rape /isn't/ the only way, nor best way, to show growth of a female character, it's also something that, to my knowledge, has not been done before. Acting like the idea that someone can have growth as a person by surviving or narrowly escaping rape is impossible belittles the women and men who have done just that in reality. Shunning the discussion of horrible acts such as rape and the survival of it, rather than shunning the act itself, is what causes so many women and men to simply not report when they've been raped in the first place.

On the other hand, while Crystal Dynamics is awesome, a lot of their comments about "you'll want to protect her" and their decision to highlight the rape itself is kinda retarded, they've sort of brought a lot of the hate on themselves.

As far as people complaining about the Hitman trailer. There is 0 things to do about rape in that trailer. Stripper nuns came to kill 47. 47 instead killed stripper nuns. The only thing that should be complained about that trailer is that it's terrible in general, and in no way represents the awesomeness of Hitman.

Rape is a horrific and unjustifiable crime. However, I'm of the opinion that taking anything remotely sexual that also has anything remotely violent around it and acting like it empowers rapists is retarded.

Rape culture is such an inane concept that it makes the discussion and emotional impact of rape belittled. If you want to stop rape, then talk about how to deal with it. Lumping such a huge thing as Rape in with a billion minor things that are really totally unrelated to rape, makes Rape seem just as minor.

These are just my opinions, and you are entitled to your own opinions. (Besides the opinion that Rape is good. In which case, fuck you.),

Sanity at last!

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