@grantheaslip:

I'm not as up in arms about this as some other people are. I'm just depressed how often, when relationships are brought up, heterosexual relationships are automatically considered and homosexual relationships aren't. Regardless of the tone or nature of this game, there is a relationship mechanic, heterosexuality was automatically considered, and homosexuality was not. And that's depressing. But it's a bigger issue then this game. Nintendo's response speaks to that bigger issue. It isn't a social commentary to show every type of relationship. It should be assumed as a norm and be automatic.

I was referring to the fact that even now in 2014 Nintendo are like the elderly grandparents of videogaming, no one should be surprised that they didn't put same sex marriage in. Hell that would probably get them a lot more heat if they did as in this game you don't decide anything, it is basically a toybox. Instead you'd have threads about "why is my friend/wife/cousin/sonic the hedgehog having a "gay marriage" in mah videogame!?"

@amikron: That person who would start that thread would be torn apart on this site and hopefully most others.

@grantheaslip: I hear where you're coming from. But at the same time I don't like the idea of placating to a willfully naive audience. Eventually big companies need to make a stand and help in social change. Accepting all manner if relationships has been a long time coming. I would hope it would be harder to ignore this change then it is to accept it.

@amikron:

Well, I can speak to tastes in the US and the majority side with us here. Not all, but the majority. That's why gay marriages is becoming widely accepted. And this is happening elsewhere too. And frankly we're discussing the North American localization of a video game. With that in mind, the view on homosexuality world at large is pretty irrelevant.

@grantheaslip: I personally don't think the context needs to be as deep as you are talking about. The game isn't super serious, but it still portrays relationships.It should to it inclusively. Period. It's a pretty simple concept. So I don't think the context of being a more Sims esque game is needed, that's just an extra complication. If anything, this game seems more relationship focused than those so being inclusive in how that concept exists in the game makes more sense to me.

I don't think that anyone should be hugely upset; I also don't see anyone who's hugely upset. Just a lot of people who are appropriately wanting for a better solution.

Am I the only one who thinks that Nintendo's "social commentary" response has been taken way out of context?

To me it seems like everyone else interpreted it as, "We didn't want to include gay relationships because we didn't want to make any social commentary." Whereas I interpreted it as, "We didn't intend any social commentary by only including hetero relationships." Subtle difference,but the former implies that they deliberately left out gay relationships to avoid a hot-button political issue (or worse), while the latter implies that they weren't trying to push some anti-gay agenda by only including hetero relationships. I suppose you could make the argument that whatever their intention, not including gay relationships is a tacit approval of the status quo or even anti-gay sentiment. I think that argument is total bullshit, but hey, knock yourself out.

I don't know, I guess I got something different out of it than everyone else.

I took it to mean this as well but I can still recognize that Nintendo bungled their response. By not stating that explicitly they've opened it up to wide interpretation. Worst case scenario they knowingly left it vague so that they could "double dip" on it and have anyone potentially think Nintendo is on their side, which rarely works as intended.

We are committed to fun and entertainment for everyone

We apologize for disappointing many people by failing to include same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life. Unfortunately, it is not possible for us to change this game’s design, and such a significant development change can’t be accomplished with a post-ship patch. At Nintendo, dedication has always meant going beyond the games to promote a sense of community, and to share a spirit of fun and joy. We are committed to advancing our longtime company values of fun and entertainment for everyone. We pledge that if we create a next installment in the Tomodachi series, we will strive to design a game-play experience from the ground up that is more inclusive, and better represents all players.

Source: http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/c4FWbi-Uave2T9R1h7SFzX0aoa-d4pgx

@fattony12000: Well. Now that's an actually decent response.

@truthtellah said:

@fattony12000: Well. Now that's an actually decent response.

Agreed! They should have just said that in the first place.

@fattony12000:

Should have been their first response. That's completely reasonable. Changing this mechanic probably isn't as trivial as it seems like it should be.

@fattony12000:

There we go!

Well not the result we would have liked ideally, But a big step in the right direction!

How we got here is unfortunate, but that response is simple and what they should've said to head off any potential controversy to begin with. I'm glad they finally confronted the issue more directly. That's good enough for me.

Well, you only get one first impression, but I'm glad Nintendo finally got around to saying what they should've said from the jump. This is why PR is a thing.

There are so, so many more important things to rattle ones sabers about, yet I really do agree that same sex relationships should be in more games the real issue comes down to, if X (cost of changes) is greater than Y (amount of extra revenue they would gain from adding this feature) they won't do it. Plus all the conservatives would get all pissy.

Honestly, I feel that this is the result that would have been reached, with or without the furor. In a way, it reminds me of Retake Mass Effect, though the specifics and circumstances are different. Both Miiversity and Retake Mass Effect asked for content in their respective games to be added/altered. But while Bioware seemed to capitulate to the demands, they already had the money and resources set aside post-launch to work on DLC. They just told the DLC staff to work on making the ending better before moving on to the content they wanted people to pay for.

In the case of Tomodachi Life, the localization has been complete for a while now and there aren't any resources set aside for DLC, paid or no. The game is, for all intents and purposes, complete, and I doubt that Nintendo would do anything to change what exists now unless a game-breaking issue was found that needed patching. (Which was, ironically, the case in the Japanese release, leading to a complete misunderstanding in the west with a presumption circling around that Nintendo removed pre-planned homosexual content from the game for some reason no one could identify.) But Nintendo said in both their initial press release and in their clarification today that they're taking feedback into consideration, and so we might yet see such content in a future Tomodachi Life game. (And it's reasonable to expect that their may well be a third game at this point, at least in Japan, as both the DS and 3DS entries have sold incredibly well in that territory alone.) So regardless of the state of Tomodachi Life, the Miiversity campaign organizers have the right idea when it comes to continuing to support the game in the west, even if Nintendo isn't going to patch it. If the fruits of the campaigning won't be seen until a hypothetical third game, then consumers need to let Nintendo know that it's worth their while to localize it.

Otherwise, what was the point?

Response from Tyeforce on NeoGAF

Okay, so I want to post a proper update here. First of all, thank each and every one of you here who supported #Miiquality and helped spread the word. This success could not have been achieved without your efforts. The NeoGAF community has been especially helpful towards the movement, and many of you here helped tremendously in getting #Miiquality off the ground.

I've been unable to read and update this thread over the last few days due to the overwhelming amount of attention I've been getting from the media and all, so I apologize for leaving you all hanging here. However, I've since skimmed over the threads and read a lot of your comments, and I want to say that I really, truly appreciate all of the kind words from many of you here. Some of your comments of support have literally brought me to tears (hey, I'm an emotional guy, lol). So thank you for that. I can't say that enough.

I also want to thank those of you who have been upholding the original message of my #Miiquality video among all the spin from the media. I'm really not happy with a lot of the headlines out there, and I don't like how many reports have spun the story in different directions. I especially don't like that so many reports are attacking Nintendo so harshly and calling them homophobic, because that was never my intent. However, I suppose it may have been necessary in order to get a response like this from them. At least it made international news. I just hope that the media coverage of this can take a positive turn after Nintendo's latest response.

Lastly, here is the update I've posted on the Miiquality pages regarding Nintendo's response:

#Miiquality has succeeded in its primary goal—to bring the issue to Nintendo's attention in hopes that future iterations of Tomodachi Life will support same-sex relationships. Despite its relationship limitations, please consider purchasing Tomodachi Life to support the development of future, more inclusive Tomodachi titles, as Nintendo has promised. Miiquality will continue to bring attention to Tomodachi Life and subsequent titles, and act as a hub for LGBTQIA Nintendo fans as well. We hope that the success of Miiquality will continue to influence the video game industry and raise awareness of other equality issues in video games and other media, and in general. Thank you all who have supported Miiquality and helped spread the word. Without your efforts, this movement couldn't have been a success.

Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=111353200&postcount=1503

Like, cool but why even include the T in LGBT if all they'll focusing on is same-sex relationships?

This is a good start, for sure, but it seems like "equality" only extends so far in issues like this.

@ravenlight said:

Yes, and what about polygamy? Or zoophilia?

Also, can I make my character live in the manner of the Amish, or go to the mosque and pray like a good Muslim? Or can I play as a Romanian gypsy street beggar? Or as someone with Aspberger's?

If there isn't any representation in the game of my specific sexuality/culture/socioeconomic group/physical appearance, how am I supposed to enjoy it? For its mechanics, visual style, writing et cetera? Pah! As if those things are what really matter in games. Everyone knows social inclusion is the most important measure of a game's quality!

Besides, I deserve to be represented! If I'm not, surely that's sexist/racist/whatever-ist!

Why is this always the anti-same-sex-relationships argument? "Well, what's next? Are we gonna start fucking turtles?"

@video_game_king: My post is not "anti-same-sex-relationships", nor is it anti-zoophilia or anti-polygamy. You are missing my point.

@icemael:

You're insulting the Miiquality movement as childish, selfish, short-sighted, and probably a bunch of other nasty words I can't muster right now. That's not much better. (Also, you're denying that games can implicitly communicate social/cultural values and/or the significance of that statement.)

This is supremely dumb.

The values of the developer can perhaps be read, to some extent, from inclusion (e.g. a developer who includes same-sex relationships is unlikely to be opposed to homophilia), but definitely not from exclusion. And regardless, this is not something anyone should come to video games for. A child who gets his values from video games lacks good parents. An adult who gets his values from video games lacks the ability to think. It shouldn't be the task of developers to compensate for either.

Even if they're good values?

Even if it's because I've thought of those games?

Considering Russia just gave the upcoming Sims 4 an "Adults Only" rating(basically making it hard to sell in the country) simply for having same-sex relationships in it, I think it's quite evident why people should encourage those who desire greater diversity in games and not just push them to shut up about it.

There are plenty of people in the world today who would prefer that those in same-sex relationships be kept in the margins and away from their media, but such prejudice cannot win. I'm glad at least one potential victory was found this week with Nintendo pledging to improve the diversity in their titles after many gamers refused to let others pressure them out of voicing their desire for change.

@video_game_king: Yes. No one should need a video game to tell him simple things like "gays and cripples are people too".

Who said those were the values I was taking from it? (Also, how did you get "gay" from Fragile Dreams? Or at least the part I linked?)

Although this perhaps loses the point that....I'm not quite sure how to put it into words. That you're not giving video games their due credit? That you're not allowing them the ability to communicate greater meaning? That you find fault with those who bring attention to previously unnoticed cultural assumptions permeating our media, rather than those very assumptions?

@video_game_king: I didn't even watch the video, it was just an example of the kind of banal message people keep clamoring for in video games.

As for communication of meaning, that's what we have writing for. There's a reason why all serious philosophers throughout the ages, from Heraclitus to Plato to Kant to Nietzsche, have communicated their ideas through books and not through, say, board games or opera, and why books are the medium anyone serious about understanding things should turn to.

OK, so cultural elitism. Also, funny that you mention board games and opera. Hell, Wagner's operas are a huge factor in German nationalism! Under those circumstances, saying that non-literature can't communicate ideas (or that the ideas it does communicate are somehow inferior by simple virtue of how they are expressed) comes across as historically ignorant.

Also also, what about Socrates? I don't think the father of Western philosophy had a particularly high opinion of writing.

The point isn't that ideas can't be communicated through means other than writing, the point is that writing is the best way (and, if the ideas are complex enough, the only real option).

As for Socrates, he is only remembered precisely because Plato wrote his words down.

Why?

What's Martin Luther King Jr. known more for? His Letter from Birmingham or his I Have a Dream speech?

@video_game_king: Why are you writing right now? Why aren't you sending me little platforming games to communicate?

@icemael:

You have dodged the point through snide language. More importantly, it seems we have, to an extent, derailed the thread.

Writing is the best way....to have your words and thoughts exist for centuries, after your civilization crumbles into ruin. The spoken word has long since superseded the book based on the simple fact that not everyone can read, but almost every human being on the planet can comprehend at least one language.