A second Kickstarter...

#1 Posted by Kidavenger (3511 posts) -

...before your first one is out the door?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera?ref=live

inXile Entertainment, Inc.; the people already working on the wildly over funded Wasteland 2 have decided to start a second kickstarter project before even delivering on their first.

Seems really shady and do these guys have any legitimate claim to Planescape: Torment other than working on similar games in the past?

I can see funding for this taking off in a big way, it's already up to $190,000 and it's been active for less than an hour.

#2 Edited by Funkydupe (3312 posts) -

If they had finished Wasteland 2 before starting a new Kickstarter project, I would have supported them. I don't like that this relatively small company is stretching themselves thin.

#3 Posted by CaLe (3912 posts) -

I don't see what the problem is, the pledge button is right there. Just click it, won't you?

#4 Posted by joseffthered (76 posts) -

I'm pretty sure inXile is made up of dudes from Interplay, some of which worked on Planescape: Torment.

#5 Posted by Schurik (11 posts) -

Take a look at the info posted there, this isn't a cash grab, it's very well thought out and there's reasons for why they're doing it now and not when WL2 is already out.

Also: PLEDGE!!

#6 Posted by EarlessShrimp (1631 posts) -

They also probably need fewer and fewer dudes working on WL2? I mean it's supposed to be out this October and Torment is supposed to come out Dec 2014. I'm sure they'll just be doing some moving around. But, that's just an opinion that isn't based on too many facts.

I'm pretty sure inXile is made up of dudes from Interplay, some of which worked on Planescape: Torment.

And it sounds like this is good enough explanation to me why it might not be too shady. Anywho, I pledged and I pledged for WL 2. I'm pretty excited!

#7 Posted by Istealdreams (148 posts) -

if only they had a video posted at the top of the page explaining why this kickstarter started so soon...

#8 Posted by Funkydupe (3312 posts) -

I doubt we'll ever see another Fallout from that visual perspective. A top down/isometric-like view. So that we get an almost equivalent in a new Wasteland game is great. I hope it turns out to be a good game.

They need fewer and fewer people working on WL2? I was hoping they'd put their hearts and souls into that game to make it as big and diverse as possible.

#9 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7613 posts) -

I don't see anything wrong with this. All the information the present on their page explains why they're doing this and how it's not going to affect Wasteland 2.

If you're uncomfortable giving them money before they've released their first game, don't back them. I don't see anything shady going on though, they just seem very committed to making quality, old school games.

#10 Posted by chilibean_3 (1622 posts) -

Their reasoning. Seems solid.

On Monday we released the news that we would be launching another Kickstarter campaign for Torment: Tides of Numenera today. If your reaction to the news was, “Hell yes, that is awesome news!” you can stop reading this update and head right to theTorment Kickstarter page to check out a lot more detail on the product. There is a ton of information about the team and the project, so please give it a read. We are crazy excited about the opportunity to work on Torment, and the Torment Kickstarter page should be enough to get all of you excited too.

If your reaction to the news about Torment was more like, “inXile, you greedy bastards, why would you launch a Kickstarter before Wasteland 2 is even done!”, then keep reading; we are addressing that point in this update…

To those outside the industry, it might seem odd to launch another Kickstarter before Wasteland 2 is done. We understand that it raises some questions, and we want our Wasteland 2 backers to understand the decision and to have access to all the information that has led us down this path. The goal of this update is not to convince you to back Torment; the goal of this update is to answer one simple question. Why now?

One of the keys to success for a small game company is being able to create continuity within the development team. It takes a long time to get a team put together, and it takes an even longer time for a team to settle in to new working relationships, a new engine, new systems, and a new asset creation pipeline. A team’s knowledge and experience grows a lot during a development cycle, and all of that knowledge gained is lost if we let the team break up when a project ships. To address that issue we have developed a very simple strategy that has already worked for us on dozens of titles in the last 25 years. Here is a quick explanation of our development team-structure philosophy:

inXile, with all of our internal employees and outside contractors, consists of enough people to be considered about the size of a team and a half. This is by design. We always want a small and efficient team (the “half team”) to design both our product and our product development plan. This is called pre-production. It is the most important time in a project’s life cycle. This is the time when we want to make sure we slow down and get it right. During this phase we don't need all the engineers and 3D Artists on the project, it is mostly concept art, design and dialog writing. When this process is completed and we are ready to roll into full production we want to have a large team of people ready to make the game. If the planning was done well during the pre-production phase we can be very efficient during production and leave ourselves with plenty of time to iterate and make amazing games. If there is no pre-production done, and the full team is trying to create the design and development plan as they go, months, if not years, are wasted. Having a full team try to start a project when the pre-production has not been completed is like stacking up a giant pile of money and lighting it on fire. This same philosophy served us quite well at Interplay in creating some of the best RPGs of all time.

The “half team” in our team and a half model consists of writers and artists as well as designers and a producer. They are the ones that define the game design, write the dialog, define the combat, the UI, the missions, and even parts of the level design. We spent about 6 months working on this pre-production for Wasteland 2 and we would like to spend even longer doing it on Torment. For inXile, this “half team” that did the pre-production for Wasteland is done, their work on Wasteland 2 is completely finished. We want to get this group into pre-production on Torment to keep them working together on a project we are all passionate about.

Currently, Wasteland 2 is in full production with a team of 15+ people cranking away on it. This is the full team that consists of engineers, scripters, character modelers, environment artists, and animators. This team is implementing the plan created during the Wasteland 2 pre-production cycle. When this full team rolls off of Wasteland 2 at the end of the year, they will need something else to do. Having a complete pre-production plan at that time allows us to roll the entire team onto a finely honed game design. Team continuity is maintained, and efficient production can begin. In a traditional publisher model, now is the time in the project life cycle where we would start to try and sign the next big contract. The best tool we have to get that done is to go back to our new publisher, you, and explain that now is the best time to start the next project.

Our “half team” is ready to start the pre-production for Torment now. They need about 8 months to get this pre-production work done. In an amazing coincidence, in about 8 months I will have a full team that is ready to take that pre-production plan and create a game. The alternative, starting pre-production on Torment after Wasteland 2 is done, increases the cost of Torment production greatly and requires us to reduce our headcount during the process.

Staggering projects like we are doing with Wasteland 2 and Torment is the best tool a single-team company like inXile has to be successful. It has the triple value of making us more efficient, giving us a better game design and making sure we keep our design and art talent working with us.

To make everything as clear as we can regarding the Torment Kickstarter and what it means for Wasteland 2, I will attempt to answer some other questions you might have:

• We do want to be abundantly clear that no Wasteland money is to be spent developing Torment. No Torment money is being spent on Wasteland 2. That said, lots of tools, plug-ins and pipeline processes that have taken man months to create will be shared between the projects if we can keep team continuity.

• The pre-production of Torment is not going to hinder the development of Wasteland in any way. As explained above, they are different teams during the pre-production.

We hope this update helps to explain the logic of why we are launching this Kickstarter now. Based on our experience we know that now is the time to get Torment rolling. We also hope that we can count on your support for Torment, and if not your support, at least your understanding. This system has always served us well so we think it makes sense to try and re-create it with you.

#11 Posted by Funkydupe (3312 posts) -

@wintersnowblind: Shady isn't the word I want to describe it. But I don't like it either way. I gave a lot to see WL2 happen. They gave me the impression that WL2 was their chance to do something great and I wanted to support that. I don't want them to juggle two titles. That's just my take on this.

#12 Posted by Kidavenger (3511 posts) -

Over halfway funded now in just a few hours.

@chilibean_3: That's nice, I'm aware of the complexities of project management, it would be nice if they would prove themselves and deliver a game before they start asking for more money.

They are expecting to sell these games after they are done, I think it's fair that they would be expected to fund a small part of the game's development, say that first 8 months.

Having Obsidian dudes validate the project is nice and all, but there is a little conflict of interest seeing how they are being paid to work on InXile's other game.

I hope this turns out great, but it's still super shady at this point.

#13 Posted by Brodehouse (9599 posts) -

Just so you guys know, that while production companies are beginning their current job, they're setting their next job. This is no different, especially considering the pipeline of game development. The writers have finished their portion. Did you guys want the writers to work forever, which means the artists have to work forever, which means the coders have to work forever? If they did that, you'd complain that the game isn't finished yet. Remember, regardless of how much you specifically gave, they still only only got like two and a half million. That's not enough to run a 20 person studio for more than a year. This still qualifies as a budget game as far as money is concerned.

Though I'm finding it so hilarious to watch backers acting exactly like the corporate execs they hate. As in "why isn't it done yet? Why aren't there more features? Why doesn't it have three times more content? What did you do with the money we gave you? You should be able to do more than this with less money. And why isn't it done yet?" It's hysterical.

#14 Posted by Funkydupe (3312 posts) -

@brodehouse: Which Kickstarter game are you referring to with regards to backers complaining?

#15 Posted by Brodehouse (9599 posts) -

ALL of the kickstarters!

#16 Edited by SlashDance (1804 posts) -

Me before watching the video and reading the page : "what the hell, that seems greedy as fuck !"

Me, after : "HEY HERE'S A HUNDRED BUCKS ! DO YOU WANT MORE ? I GOT MORE !"

#17 Posted by StarvingGamer (8025 posts) -

Makes sense to me. This is how all well-oiled machines work. Sure, they're an unproven studio, but they were also unproven when Wasteland 2 was being Kickstarted. That doesn't suddenly matter more now that they have one product in full production and one product in pre-production. If you didn't like it back then you can keep on not liking it now, but if you gave them the benefit of the doubt back then, I see no reason why you shouldn't do the same for them now.

#18 Posted by Istealdreams (148 posts) -

Over halfway funded now in just a few hours.

@chilibean_3: That's nice, I'm aware of the complexities of project management, it would be nice if they would prove themselves and deliver a game before they start asking for more money.

They are expecting to sell these games after they are done, I think it's fair that they would be expected to fund a small part of the game's development, say that first 8 months.

Having Obsidian dudes validate the project is nice and all, but there is a little conflict of interest seeing how they are being paid to work on InXile's other game.

I hope this turns out great, but it's still super shady at this point.

I'm with you! I would like those shady motherfuckers like writers and art designers out of a job...no wait, I would rather they move on to other projects that I am excited about. They COULD use some of that wasteland money to fund it, but instead do the honest thing and put it out there again to see if they can fund their next project without taping into Wasteland kickstarter money that I am sure you and everyone else would complain about similarly.

#19 Posted by SlashDance (1804 posts) -

So it's been what, 5 hours or something ? They just broke 800K...

Is this the fastest kickstarter funding ? It's going pretty fast, you guys.

#20 Posted by AssInAss (2544 posts) -

So it's been what, 5 hours or something ? They just broke 800K...

Is this the fastest kickstarter funding ? It's going pretty fast, you guys.

I think this might be one for the record books! GODDAMN

#21 Posted by SlashDance (1804 posts) -

Aaaaaaand, it's done.

#22 Edited by Xymox (2068 posts) -
@cale said:

I don't see what the problem is, the pledge button is right there. Just click it, won't you?

I've told myself to stop buying games on steam until I finish what I got, because it's just gone out of hand. But for some reason, that doesn't seem to apply to kickstarter which I'm starting to treat like some kind of pre-order service... But whatevz, pledged.

They're about 100k shy of Project Eternity at this point with only a few hours to go.

But I can't say I'm not worried. I assume Wasteland 2 will be a 2-2.5 star game. I'm okay with that. But I do want to see them actually put something out there.

Though I'm finding it so hilarious to watch backers acting exactly like the corporate execs they hate.

And that's without ever getting any money back on the initial investment...

#23 Posted by Arach666 (64 posts) -

It´s over 4 million with 4 hours to go! :o

#24 Edited by Kidavenger (3511 posts) -

It's kind of insane thinking about the eventual outcome of these kickstarted projects; 70,000 people pay 100% of the development costs and end up with a copy of the game, then the company gets to bring the product to market and sell it to everyone else and they get to keep 100% of that profit. You have to figure a game like this will sell 500,000 copies easily; that 4 million is just a small drop compared to what they will end up with once this is all said and done and they are literally taking on zero risk, there is no down side to this for them at all.

#25 Posted by Jimbo (9775 posts) -

It's kind of insane thinking about the eventual outcome of these kickstarted projects; 70,000 people pay 100% of the development costs and end up with a copy of the game, then the company gets to bring the product to market and sell it to everyone else and they get to keep 100% of that profit. You have to figure a game like this will sell 500,000 copies easily; that 4 million is just a small drop compared to what they will end up with once this is all said and done and they are literally taking on zero risk, there is no down side to this for them at all.

You're right, but if this is what it takes to get the people I want making the games I want them to make again then so be it.

#26 Posted by jakob187 (21644 posts) -

@kidavenger said:

It's kind of insane thinking about the eventual outcome of these kickstarted projects; 70,000 people pay 100% of the development costs and end up with a copy of the game, then the company gets to bring the product to market and sell it to everyone else and they get to keep 100% of that profit. You have to figure a game like this will sell 500,000 copies easily; that 4 million is just a small drop compared to what they will end up with once this is all said and done and they are literally taking on zero risk, there is no down side to this for them at all.

Thems the breaks.

#27 Edited by Kidavenger (3511 posts) -

@jimbo: @jakob187: I'm not saying it's a bad thing, these guys are going to be making a shitload of money if these games turn out even remotely decent. Good for them, I hope they deliver on it.

#28 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4602 posts) -

My only issue with this is that if anyone deserves another crack at Planescape: Torment, it's the Obsidian guys.

#29 Posted by Kidavenger (3511 posts) -
#30 Posted by Ixaan (24 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: A bunch of the people working on this are people who worked on the original. Obsidian is focused on making their own game right now, but there are plenty of people at inXile that were originally with Black Isle Studios and worked on Planescape. Chris Avellone getting involved is amazing by itself.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.