SPOILERS

So one thing bugged me about the Uncharted 3 quicklook. Brad said that Uncharted 3 could be seen as Uncharted 2 - 2. I'll preface what I'm about to say as, I realize Brad loved the game, and that he didn't really mean it in a negative way, but I still find that to be a ridiculous comment, that many people on the interwebs have said. I ask you, what did Gears of War 3 do that was so different? Nothing really, so why wasn't that called Gears of War 2 - 2? What did Arkham City do that was so vastly different? Nothing really... The open city is an illusion. The framework is EXACTLY the same as Arkham Asylum. The main city, like the asylum grounds, is just a small hub world you use to to traverse to get around to indoor environments. Yet that game wasn't called Arkham Asylum 2.

I think, because Uncharted 2 was of such a high quality game peoples expectations make them say some weird things. The experience is similar, but they can keep using that framework as long ast the polish is there. Same way they can make more Gears or more Batman.

Bonus

All information below comes from Uncharted 3 collectors guide. Will add more tidbits as I read them.

• Drake and Elena got married after Uncharted 2. Some people assume they are just engaged, but nope, they full on married.
• Drake's Deception refers to the deception of Sir Francis Drake's deception of Queen Elizabeth, not Nathan Drake's deception.
• There has thus far been no "true" supernatural elements in an Uncharted game. The El Dorado zombies were creatures born of a virus, and the tree of life was some type of pseudo-scientific drug found in an unknown type of tree. This leads us to believe that the urn found at the end of Uncharted 3, is not a vessel holding Djinn, but a vessel that is maybe holding some sort of ancient hallucinogenic drug. Maybe Scarecrow visited Ubar at one point in his life.
• Drake is in his mid thirties at the start of Uncharted 3. His character model has gotten progressively older in each game, with added wrinkles and what not.

[More to come]

Siiiiiiigh.

Cool tidbits though.

They are married? The game could of said something.

To be a complete asshole about it, i wish this game was more like Uncharted 2, then i wouldn't have the issues with it that i do
 
Drake and Elena are married? WTF?! why would they not state that in the game? See, this just expounds upon 1 of the problems that i have with the game which is that there isn't as much as of an emotional investment in this game and their characters unlike Uncharted 2. None of the characters are really fleshed out the way they were in Uncharted 2. Openly stated that they were married could've helped things. That's just dumb. Not to mention it raises a whole bunch of other questions.
 
Why would he leave his wife in the dark for most of the game? Probably cuz he knew she had an issue with him hunting but then...
Why wouldn't you take heed to ur own wifes advice? Especially considering she practically died in the last game
Why did he look like he was about to kiss her at the end but didn't? That's his wife. What would be the point in not doing that?

Semantics

He only said the game was like Uncharted 2-2 because of the comparisons to Assassin's Creed, and both have a similar amount of innovation and new ideas in them. He's not talking in terms of story progression or anything like that. If you reduce his statement to regarding the amount of changes from iteration to iteration, then yeah he's right, it's uncharted 2-2 on a technical level, just not on a story level.

@hbkdx12 said:

To be a complete asshole about it, i wish this game was more like Uncharted 2, then i wouldn't have the issues with it that i do Drake and Elena are married? WTF?! why would they not state that in the game? See, this just expounds upon 1 of the problems that i have with the game which is that there isn't as much as of an emotional investment in this game and their characters unlike Uncharted 2. None of the characters are really fleshed out the way they were in Uncharted 2. Openly stated that they were married could've helped things. That's just dumb. Not to mention it raises a whole bunch of other questions. Why would he leave his wife in the dark for most of the game? Probably cuz he knew she had an issue with him hunting but then... Why wouldn't you take heed to ur own wifes advice? Especially considering she practically died in the last game Why did he look like he was about to kiss her at the end but didn't? That's his wife. What would be the point in not doing that?

I feel like by the third game you know the characters well enough that they don't need to blatantly yell things at you for you to understand. They took the subtle approach, and if you listen to what Drake and Elena say, you can deduce what happened. Drake, because of his parents committing suicide, always has fear of being alone, and yet he also keeps people at arms distance because he's afraid of losing them. During the climax of the game when that certain character dies, he is having a hallucination of the absolute worst thing he can imagine, which is losing his loved ones. That also plays into his marriage. He had Elena twice, and couldn't properly keep her, until he lost Francis Drakes ring, and accepted the ring that symbolized Elena.

Who cares? Why does this bother you so much? If you like the game, then good for you. You shouldn't give two shits what other people say about them, they are called "opinions" for a reason.

Jesus Christ...

Uncharted 3 has identical gameplay to 2, nothing is new. The shooting still sucks, Drake still craps out tired one-liners, and the game still consists of repetitive shooting sequences and ledge-jumping. They added nothing. It's Uncharted 2.5

Arkham City is a huge improvement on Arkham Asylum, yes the game is similar, but it's only the second iteration, and there are a hell of a lot of big differences that make the game feel, look, and play differently. New characters, Catwoman levels, new gadgets, improved mobility systems, a much much much bigger world to explore, it's a completely different and improved game. Same goes for Gears, they add Beast mode, they completely remake Horde mode, they add weapons and enemies and a whole mess of new crap to keep the core features of the series, but make it feel and play like a whole new game. Uncharted 3 doesn't do that at all, they took 2 and made it again, and could barely get that right since the game kinda sucks and I'd much rather play 2. The multiplayer is the same, shooting is the same, climbing around is the same, there is nothing new. There's a difference between what games like Arkham City and Gears 3 did, keeping fundamentals but adding plenty of new stuff, compared to what Uncharted 3 did, keeping fundamentals and adding jack shit.

@Pr1mus said:

They have all expressed the feelings that Gears 3 was more of the same and that Arkham City was more of the same too... not sure where you're going with this. Is calling it Uncharted 2-2 that much of a big deal or is it a big deal because Jeff didn't call it Arkham Asylum 2 despite saying it is more of the same?

Edit: You're awfully defensive about what Brad said. You're not defending Uncharted 3 by proving it's not just more of the same but rather attacking other games that are also more of the same... aka every single sequels this generation.

@mcderby4 said:

Who cares? Why does this bother you so much? If you like the game, then good for you. You shouldn't give two shits what other people say about them, they are called "opinions" for a reason.

It doesn't bother me SO MUCH. I am just saying that it is a reductive way of looking at the game and nitpicking on a game, because there isn't much else to nitpick about.

@mcderby4 said:

Who cares? Why does this bother you so much?

Because people are insane.

@Stingraymond said:

Jesus Christ...

Uncharted 3 has identical gameplay to 2, nothing is new. The shooting still sucks, Drake still craps out tired one-liners, and the game still consists of repetitive shooting sequences and ledge-jumping. They added nothing. It's Uncharted 2.5

Arkham City is a huge improvement on Arkham Asylum, yes the game is similar, but it's only the second iteration, and there are a hell of a lot of big differences that make the game feel, look, and play differently. New characters, Catwoman levels, new gadgets, improved mobility systems, a much much much bigger world to explore, it's a completely different and improved game. Same goes for Gears, they add Beast mode, they completely remake Horde mode, they add weapons and enemies and a whole mess of new crap to keep the core features of the series, but make it feel and play like a whole new game. Uncharted 3 doesn't do that at all, they took 2 and made it again, and could barely get that right since the game kinda sucks and I'd much rather play 2. The multiplayer is the same, shooting is the same, climbing around is the same, there is nothing new. There's a difference between what games like Arkham City and Gears 3 did, keeping fundamentals but adding plenty of new stuff, compared to what Uncharted 3 did, keeping fundamentals and adding jack shit.

There is a ton of new things. Grenade throwback, expanded combat, vertical action scenarios etc... This thread is not about insulting the other games, but stating that to call one game Uncharted 2 - 2 while not mentioning anything of the similarities in other games as a negative is unfair. Anyways, the world of Arkham City is not that much bigger the Asylum. It just looks bigger. It's still a hub world with scattered trophies, that lead to indoor environments. New gadgets would be the equivalent of new guns, and the new flight mechanics are the equivalent of new animations for traversal found in Uncharted. So yeah...

@Cloudenvy said:

@mcderby4 said:

Who cares? Why does this bother you so much?

Because people are insane.

Thanks for the insult.

I didn't read your post so I'll just make a useless comment. I hated Uncharted 3 but liked 2. I'd go as far as to say that Naughty Dog is a crap developer now. Just thinking of Uncharted 3 gives me a headache. Fuck this game. Why did Naughty Dog do this to me? I miss Crash Bandicoot. Sentence.

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

They are married? The game could of said something.

Well, she is still wearing a ring when they get off the plane and meet her. It was pretty heavily implied.

You're getting hung up on game titles, great.

@Pr1mus said:

You're awfully defensive

It's LiquidPrince and it's a Sony exclusive

@hbkdx12 said:

To be a complete asshole about it, i wish this game was more like Uncharted 2, then i wouldn't have the issues with it that i do Drake and Elena are married? WTF?! why would they not state that in the game? See, this just expounds upon 1 of the problems that i have with the game which is that there isn't as much as of an emotional investment in this game and their characters unlike Uncharted 2. None of the characters are really fleshed out the way they were in Uncharted 2. Openly stated that they were married could've helped things. That's just dumb. Not to mention it raises a whole bunch of other questions. Why would he leave his wife in the dark for most of the game? Probably cuz he knew she had an issue with him hunting but then... Why wouldn't you take heed to ur own wifes advice? Especially considering she practically died in the last game Why did he look like he was about to kiss her at the end but didn't? That's his wife. What would be the point in not doing that?

I'm having a little problem having an opinion either with Brad's statement, or what Liquid prince says. It's just a matter of perspective.

However, I always favored Chloe over Miss Bossy(Elena), and as good as Elena looks I would try to leave her home as much as I could, because she would always try to be the boss of me. Grrrrr!!! Chloe on the other hand is a team player, and simply suffered a moral difficulty. After all, she felt her input completely and out of hand disregarded by Nathan Numb-nuts.True, she did screw up and she then regretted it. Hell, these ppl. are in the other-peoples-important-things 'acquiring'business, anyways. Seems like Drake could have been a little more forgiving....working the grey areas hisself, isn't he?. I think he needs another bitch slap from Mrs old-but-kind-of-Hot lady Monroe.

Someone's in denial.

It also refers to the fact that he ain't no drake yo, that's some deception y'see. Also the game is nowhere near the quality of 2.

@TeflonBilly said:

@Pr1mus said:

You're awfully defensive

It's LiquidPrince and it's a Sony exclusive

Right... because you know me well enough to make this random statement...

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

Someone's in denial.

About what? Uncharted 2 is my favorite game ever, and Uncharted 3 is now pretty much right up there beside it. This is just a matter of no matter how good the game is, there are always some people who end up saying sequels suck.

@benjaebe said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

They are married? The game could of said something.

Well, she is still wearing a ring when they get off the plane and meet her. It was pretty heavily implied.

I figured it out, yes but a off hand line of dialogue about it would of been nice.

@LiquidPrince: You're the most prolific SDF fanboy on these forums. "Know you well"? One needs just hover around this board whenever a Sony exclusive release is coming up to see you hype it up almost to the level get2sammyb would back in the day. I don't need a damn eidetic memory to notice these trends.

I agree with you, but there's really no point in arguing it when other people just love to jump on the hate bandwagon of a popular series. 

You're indicting Brad because he didn't use the exact same criticism across multiple games? He's just saying what he's thinking at the time, it's silly to expect thematic consistency in someone's opinions. What's to complain about anyway? You worried someone won't buy the game because of his review and Naughty Dog will go out of business? C'mon man, get it together.

@LiquidPrince: That's not what he meant. He meant that Uncharted 2 is so different from the original Uncharted that it feels like a different series.

@hbkdx12 said:

To be a complete asshole about it, i wish this game was more like Uncharted 2, then i wouldn't have the issues with it that i do Drake and Elena are married? WTF?! why would they not state that in the game? See, this just expounds upon 1 of the problems that i have with the game which is that there isn't as much as of an emotional investment in this game and their characters unlike Uncharted 2. None of the characters are really fleshed out the way they were in Uncharted 2. Openly stated that they were married could've helped things. That's just dumb. Not to mention it raises a whole bunch of other questions. Why would he leave his wife in the dark for most of the game? Probably cuz he knew she had an issue with him hunting but then... Why wouldn't you take heed to ur own wifes advice? Especially considering she practically died in the last game Why did he look like he was about to kiss her at the end but didn't? That's his wife. What would be the point in not doing that?

I feel like by the third game you know the characters well enough that they don't need to blatantly yell things at you for you to understand. They took the subtle approach, and if you listen to what Drake and Elena say, you can deduce what happened. Drake, because of his parents committing suicide, always has fear of being alone, and yet he also keeps people at arms distance because he's afraid of losing them. During the climax of the game when that certain character dies, he is having a hallucination of the absolute worst thing he can imagine, which is losing his loved ones. That also plays into his marriage. He had Elena twice, and couldn't properly keep her, until he lost Francis Drakes ring, and accepted the ring that symbolized Elena.

@mcderby4 said:

Who cares? Why does this bother you so much? If you like the game, then good for you. You shouldn't give two shits what other people say about them, they are called "opinions" for a reason.

I thought he was being a bit over-the-top too, I mean it's a video-game not someone slandering like 9-11 or anything like that. He kind of needs to get some perspective really.

@TeflonBilly said:

@LiquidPrince: You're the most prolific SDF fanboy on these forums. "Know you well"? One needs just hover around this board whenever a Sony exclusive release is coming up to see you hype it up almost to the level get2sammyb would back in the day. I don't need a damn eidetic memory to notice these trends.

Really? Show me an example of such blatant displays of fanboyism. Otherwise please shut it.

@Milkman said:

@LiquidPrince: That's not what he meant. He meant that Uncharted 2 is so different from the original Uncharted that it feels like a different series.

I could believe that. That's a good way to think about it actually.

@Getz said:

You're indicting Brad because he didn't use the exact same criticism across multiple games? He's just saying what he's thinking at the time, it's silly to expect thematic consistency in someone's opinions. What's to complain about anyway? You worried someone won't buy the game because of his review and Naughty Dog will go out of business? C'mon man, get it together.

No I just think it's a nitpick someone makes when there is nothing really to nitpick about. I don't understand why people are being so defensive of Brad. He criticized the game, I criticized something he said. It's not like I dislike Brad... He's like a virtual buddy.

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

@benjaebe said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

They are married? The game could of said something.

Well, she is still wearing a ring when they get off the plane and meet her. It was pretty heavily implied.

I figured it out, yes but a off hand line of dialogue about it would of been nice.

There is. When you first see Elena, Drake says "I see you're still wearing yours" and looks at her ring. Then she says something like "It helps in this part of the world."

@LiquidPrince: Ugh no, I'm not gonna drudge through the posting history of someone who actually defended Revenge Of The Fallen, I might catch residual brain damage.

Search your feelings. You know it be true.

just let it go, get on with your life

@hbkdx12 said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@hbkdx12 said:

To be a complete asshole about it, i wish this game was more like Uncharted 2, then i wouldn't have the issues with it that i do Drake and Elena are married? WTF?! why would they not state that in the game? See, this just expounds upon 1 of the problems that i have with the game which is that there isn't as much as of an emotional investment in this game and their characters unlike Uncharted 2. None of the characters are really fleshed out the way they were in Uncharted 2. Openly stated that they were married could've helped things. That's just dumb. Not to mention it raises a whole bunch of other questions. Why would he leave his wife in the dark for most of the game? Probably cuz he knew she had an issue with him hunting but then... Why wouldn't you take heed to ur own wifes advice? Especially considering she practically died in the last game Why did he look like he was about to kiss her at the end but didn't? That's his wife. What would be the point in not doing that?

I feel like by the third game you know the characters well enough that they don't need to blatantly yell things at you for you to understand. They took the subtle approach, and if you listen to what Drake and Elena say, you can deduce what happened. Drake, because of his parents committing suicide, always has fear of being alone, and yet he also keeps people at arms distance because he's afraid of losing them. During the climax of the game when that certain character dies, he is having a hallucination of the absolute worst thing he can imagine, which is losing his loved ones. That also plays into his marriage. He had Elena twice, and couldn't properly keep her, until he lost Francis Drakes ring, and accepted the ring that symbolized Elena.

To be honest, the closest thing to a fleshed out relationship/characterization that this game offers is between Drake and Sully and even then i'd still say it's lacking any real "oomph" other than to say we experience how and when Sully took drake under his wing. All the things you say are plausible but it's delivered poorly due to the fact that there's nothing at stake for Drake emotionally, atleast not revealed to us as the spectator, ever. Sully, Chloe, Elena and even Marlowe all question Drakes motives. Drake is exceedingly pigheadish and arrogant to the point that he's only on the hunt to fulfill his selfish need for the thrill and he's willing to drag along and risk his "loved ones" to do it. Which is fine, problem is that why do these people see his blind arrogance and then foolishly just tag along? Focusing on Elena specifically, she begged Drake not to put Sully through everything and she's clearly opposed to him doing himself, at all. You'd think there would be a make or break point for her where she'd give him an ultimatum and not just tag along every inch of the way being that she knows Drake is doing it for the thrill, Francis Drake hid his passage for a reason and not to mention she damn near got blown the fuck up last time. No one or nothing really holds drake accountable for his actions to say enough is enough. Sure he went through the whole hallucination and fear of losing Sully and what not but too much of what's at stake emotionally falls through the cracks by time he gets to the end and tells Marlowe he has nothing to prove. It just didn't work the way i felt it should have. Not to mention, other than telling Elena he traded Francis Drakes lost ring for something better (their rings) he never really makes amends or acknowledges fault for carelessly risking the lives of the people closest to him even though he knows (or should know by this point) that he was acting selfishly

Well it's because Elena loves Drake. She may make an excuse, but she's still wearing his ring at the end of the day. Same with Sully, she was planning on saving him all alone. She doesn't approvr their adventures, but she knows they're going to do it anyways, so she wants to try and keep them alive. That's why she expected Drake to leave her when they went to the air field.

@TeflonBilly said:

@LiquidPrince: Ugh no, I'm not gonna drudge through the posting history of someone who actually defended Revenge Of The Fallen, I might catch residual brain damage.

Search your feelings. You know it be true.

Hilarious, except totally unrelated as ROTF is a movie. You're a condescending dick, and you wouldn't be able to find any such thread even if you tried to. I have and enjoy all three of my consoles, so I'd appreciate you keeping your asinine comments to yourself.

@LiquidPrince said:

That's why she expected Drake to leave her when they went to the air field.

@LiquidPrince said:

• Drake's Deception refers to the deception of Sir Francis Drake's deception of Queen Elizabeth, not Nathan Drake's deception.

This. Both Drake's Fortune and Drake's Deception refer to Francis Drake, not Nathan Drake.

I think you're reading to much into it. Brad's statement was not wrong. It may not have been necessary for Brad to say it is Uncharted 2-2 and that may seem reductive if you interoperate it a certain way but thats semantics. I think he meant what he said and he's not wrong for saying so. 
 
... P.S. they did say Gears and Batman were more of the same so I don't know why you brought those games up as comparisons. Even if you did want to compare it to Gears of Wars 3, Uncharted 3 didn't change its formula nearly as much as Gears of Wars 3 did anyway.

@hbkdx12: It was actually quite obvious that they were married. The rings were wedding bands rather than your typical engagement rings. I actually quite liked that they made things subtle this time around, they can actually afford to do that because of the amazing chemistry the voice actors have together.

@LiquidPrince: That's not what he meant. He meant that Uncharted 2 is so different from the original Uncharted that it feels like a different series.

@DonPixel said:

Semantics

Syntax

@ComradeKhan said:

@Milkman said:

@LiquidPrince: That's not what he meant. He meant that Uncharted 2 is so different from the original Uncharted that it feels like a different series.

I would agree with this... I believe Brads statement was aimed at how different Uncharted 2 and 3 are from Uncharted 1 not how similar Uncharted 2 is to 3 (even if it is really similar).

The core of Uncharted 1 is still very similar. The cinematic aspect was just bumped up a ton in 2 I believe.

You care about this too much.

Uncharted, the shining white knight of the Playstation brand.

If his statement bothers you, go look for another review that makes you feel better about the whole thing. I heard IGN liked it a lot. Problem solved.

It's an Uncharted-ass Uncharted game.

No really.

I think they have mentioned in bombcasts and such how similar those games they listed are to their respective predecessors. I havent played uncharted 3 yet, but maybe it just has more prominent similarities to 2 compared to the other games. And as Brad has stated and you have acknowledged thats not really a bad thing, uncharted 2 was really awesome, it may just feel similar.

I could've sworn I heard Jeff make side comments about Gears of War 3 being similar to GoW2 but I could be wrong. They don't have to full out say "this could be GoW 2 -2" for it to be a comparison like you're talking about.

I feel like Uncharted 3 was the apex of the franchise: They really figured it out.
 
They took Uncharted 2 and said "YOU KNOW WHAT, NOW YOU ARE EVEN BETTER".
 
I remember a review for God Of War 3, the guy was talking about the controls and how they've hardly changed from game to game, and then he said something like "Can that be a bad thing, when the controls are pretty much perfected from the get-go?".
 
I mean, look at the possibility of Arkham 3. What can that even be at this point? Arkham Asylum was this big ass game, but it wasn't open world. And then Arkham City came in, it was open world by a technicality(Even though that world was just a giant hub). What can they do from here? Just straight up RPG it and combine the whole world together?
 
So back to the point, why would people expect Uncharted 3 to be better than Uncharted 2? And even deeper into that, what does that even mean? Higher production values? Bigger scenes with more explosions? They improved everything from the gameplay to the graphics, and in my opinion the story was even better than Uncharted 2(Call me crazy, but I like the whole "Shady black ops organization" angle better than the "crazy, unstoppable war lord of death". But that doesn't mean I didn't like it at all, it was fucking awesome both ways.) What I mean is, look at people that don't like Uncharted 3. They always say "MAN, UNCHARTED 2 WAS MY FAVORITE GAME EVAR. EVERYTHING WAS JUST SO GOOD ABOUT IT! IT WAS PERFECT TO ME!" And it's like... So, how COULD they do better? And should they? How can you take a game that MANY consider to be one of their favorites or just perfect to them etc, etc, and make it better, when almost everyone agrees that Uncharted 2 was the highest reaching game it could have been? I liked that the Uncharted 3 has it's own identity and didn't try to copy Uncharted 2.
 
I don't know. It's pointless to group everyone that didn't like Uncharted 3 into one group of people or something dumb that people do. It's all so opinionated and different.
 
Man, you know what, why can't people just not like a game anymore? Why does anyone have to justify anything? I thought Arkham City sucked a pile of dick. I'm not going to justify why though, because I fucking hated it. So what, even if Brad didn't like Uncharted 3(Even though he did), who cares? I fucking love this game. Who cares if anyone likes anything! WHY DOES IT BOTHER PEOPLE SO MUCH. WHAT HAS JIM STERLING DONE TO US!?!?!? WHY CAN'T WE JUST ENJOY ANYTHING ANYMORE OR NOT ENJOY IT IN PEACE.

Those ''tidbits'' were obvious enough, I think. But cool to have some official confirmation.

@LiquidPrince said:

• Drake's Deception refers to the deception of Sir Francis Drake's deception of Queen Elizabeth, not Nathan Drake's deception.

I kind of figured that's what it was referring to.

Wait some people didn't work out they got married? The whole "She's still wearing the ring" they shoved down our throats was a pretty big hint. As for the Drakes Deception it was pretty obvious it wasn't Nathan from the start, the bit where they clearly explain that it should of taken 1 month to sail across the ocean, not 6 and that he lied about it to everyone.

Why do some gamers need every bit of information spelt out for them? Books never have to explain everything.