Uncharted 3, the worst combat in a game since Uncharted 2

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Posted by shakra (252 posts) -

Everything about uncharted 3 is pretty stellar, except for the terrible combat. Normally I groan in games with the too stupid AI, but in uncharted the smarter AI make the awful combat controls even more glaring. The ps3 controller is awful for this type of combat, and it doesnt help that the controller moves the camera too slow for the dozens of snipers at once that surround you in every combat situation.

I quit playing the 2nd uncharted because the combat was so awful and unfun. I'm at the final stage of 3, but goddamn do i hate the frustrating combat. If it weren't for the story that keeps pushing me I would have broken this disc in half. How can a developer create a game where half of the experience is so terrible?

#1 Posted by shakra (252 posts) -

Everything about uncharted 3 is pretty stellar, except for the terrible combat. Normally I groan in games with the too stupid AI, but in uncharted the smarter AI make the awful combat controls even more glaring. The ps3 controller is awful for this type of combat, and it doesnt help that the controller moves the camera too slow for the dozens of snipers at once that surround you in every combat situation.

I quit playing the 2nd uncharted because the combat was so awful and unfun. I'm at the final stage of 3, but goddamn do i hate the frustrating combat. If it weren't for the story that keeps pushing me I would have broken this disc in half. How can a developer create a game where half of the experience is so terrible?

#2 Posted by Hailinel (23689 posts) -

How is the PS3 controller unsuited to the combat?

#3 Posted by Maajin (1052 posts) -

I love the combat. Don't really know what you're talking about.

#4 Edited by SethPhotopoulos (5060 posts) -

I rather enjoyed the combat in Uncharted 2. I thought the way it handled was pretty good and I had no problems with the controller. But I have a blue name so what do I know.

#5 Posted by shakra (252 posts) -

Guess I'm just used to a mouse. Combat in this game with a controller makes me want to weep. Everything else is amazing though, I'm just getting frustrated with this madness.

#6 Posted by Yummylee (21208 posts) -

The combat in Uncharted 3 is a bit of a mess, to be sure, but Uncharted 2 had sublime combat and some of the best third-person shooting around--least I think so.

#7 Posted by Andorski (5173 posts) -

What's your problem with the AI? I thought the AI in Uncharted 2 was competent. Nothing stellar - the game uses enemy numbers, better accuracy, and more hit points to increase difficulty rather than having AI with a greater sense of tactics. Still, I never found it awful compared to the spectrum of other shooters out there this generation.

The controller issue is probably just due to not being use to it for shooters. I definitely ran into this problem when I first got my PS3. Thought the sticks were terrible. Then I played on the PS3 for a while before switching back to using the 360 controller. At that point, I got so use to the Dualshock that the feel of the 360 controller was very alien to me.

#8 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

I agree. The gunplay is atrocious (crippling acceleration, input translated into too slow movement for too long, especially in when aiming) and I hate aggressively/suicidally charging/flanking AI.

I love the game to bits because of its production values and thrillride setpieces, despite not digging the core shooting mechanic and generally all standard 3rd person shooter encounters. It reminds me of a corridor in a very early Halo 3 level playing on Legendary. Being locked in a confined and very narrow space with a tonne of Brutes. Them closing in relentlessly. And at some point a golden brute joins the fray with a power hammer. Only solution. A LOT of headshots and being even more aggressive than the Brutes.

Thing is, I've one such memory from beating Halo 3 solo on Legendary. Uncharted 3 on normal is like that 'Brutes Situation' in a majority of its combat encounters. Doesn't fit the bill of a cinematic experience at all. Way too much challange and 'player fail' inherent to their design and balancing. The AI is too successful with fucking with me. I'm definitely not playing UC3 for the challenge. I guess I should have gone with easy difficulty then.

#9 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@shakra said:

Guess I'm just used to a mouse. Combat in this game with a controller makes me want to weep. Everything else is amazing though, I'm just getting frustrated with this madness.

Nah - the gunplay is definitely off. You are right about that.

@Andorski said:

...The controller issue is probably just due to not being use to it for shooters. I definitely ran into this problem when I first got my PS3. Thought the sticks were terrible. Then I played on the PS3 for a while before switching back to using the 360 controller. At that point, I got so use to the Dualshock that the feel of the 360 controller was very alien to me.

The PS3 has mechanically less deadzone on its analogsticks. Hence they're capable of being more responsive and fluid than the 360 gamepad, though the pleb calls that 'floaty' sometimes. Some developers chose to hamstring responsiveness by adding more deadzone to their games softwareside (like Guerilla did with KZ2).

Why would anybody want what is the equivalent of a 'lower DPI mouse'? Outside of formfactor and triggers, the PS3 pad is way superior to the standard 360 pad. Integral design. USB wired and wireless in one device. Higher quality materials. Less deadzone. All that Microsoft does better is formfactor and monetizing to the max with their modular hardware design.

#10 Posted by Andorski (5173 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@shakra said:

Guess I'm just used to a mouse. Combat in this game with a controller makes me want to weep. Everything else is amazing though, I'm just getting frustrated with this madness.

Nah - the gunplay is definitely off. You are right about that.

Would you say its off from what Uncharted 2 was like, or do you feel the Uncharted series in general has sub-par shooting?

#11 Posted by devilzrule27 (1239 posts) -

If you say so. Plays just fine to me.

#12 Posted by SomeJerk (3130 posts) -

Uncharted 3 has messed up aiming, I can confirm. Puts a lot of people off bigtime. Uncharted 2 is still fine.
 
Oh, you naughty dogs, you :<

#13 Posted by MiniPato (2714 posts) -

I don't get the complaints about the PS3 controller. I find it perfectly fine and I have big hands too!

I agree I find the gunplay to be slower than in Uncharted 2 (which I felt had great gun play, don't know what you are talking about), but it's not cripplingly unplayable. But the melee combat is exceptional, almost as good as Arkham Asylum I'd say, very enjoyable.

#14 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Andorski said:

@Seppli said:

@shakra said:

Guess I'm just used to a mouse. Combat in this game with a controller makes me want to weep. Everything else is amazing though, I'm just getting frustrated with this madness.

Nah - the gunplay is definitely off. You are right about that.

Would you say its off from what Uncharted 2 was like, or do you feel the Uncharted series in general has sub-par shooting?

I can't remember having an issue with either UC 1 & 2. It's been awhile though and I really just play the campaign and a 'lil coop. Not a hardcore UC buff.

#15 Posted by Andorski (5173 posts) -

@SomeJerk said:

Uncharted 3 has messed up aiming, I can confirm. Puts a lot of people off bigtime. Uncharted 2 is still fine. Oh, you naughty dogs, you :<

NeoGAF has a thread where some of its members were brought into the Naughty Dog studio to help improve the aiming for an upcoming update. So fingers crossed on them fixing the issue people have been having with the aiming controls.

#16 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Andorski said:

@SomeJerk said:

Uncharted 3 has messed up aiming, I can confirm. Puts a lot of people off bigtime. Uncharted 2 is still fine. Oh, you naughty dogs, you :<

NeoGAF has a thread where some of its members were brought into the Naughty Dog studio to help improve the aiming for an upcoming update. So fingers crossed on them fixing the issue people have been having with the aiming controls.

You know what DICE has? A dude doing nothing but designing gunplay. All year long. I sometimes feel like some studios underestimate how much work goes into satisfying gunplay.

#17 Posted by Korolev (1694 posts) -

I can sympathize - I've always had a problem with the combat in the Uncharted series. Don't get me wrong: I love the series. I really liked Uncharted 3 and I really loved Uncharted 2... but man the combat can be excruciatingly difficult. I remember the first time I went through the Pirate Levels on Uncharted 3.... that was a nightmare. No other area of the game, aside from one section in Settlement, even remotely approach the difficulty of that section. I had to run around like a lunatic, diving into the water constantly to regain health. It was not fun. There were times which I had killed almost all the pirates, taken out the THREE shotgun carrying armour plated heavies, only to be killed by a sniper. Or during other times in which I had killed the sniper, but then I got hit by a shotgun blast from a dude who came out of NOWHERE and then I died by grenade.

The aiming is too sluggish, and I feel that the reticule does not give a good indication of whether or not you'll hit an enemy. There were times in which I had the reticule clearly on an enemy, yet my pistol shots just would not hit them. And they were fairly close too. And while I like the aggressiveness of the enemies (a really refreshing change of pace compared to a lot of other games), I really hated the fact that the game would spawn enemies off screen who would creep up silently behind you and finish you of almost immediately.

Love the writing. Love the characters. Love, love, LOVE the artstyle and the music and pacing of these games (even if I am aware that they take more than a few cues from Indiana Jones). It's really, really good. But the combat is, without a doubt, the least satisfying part of the game for me. It's astonishing that I love a game so much even if I really don't like many of the actual "game" parts of it.

Online
#18 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Korolev said:

...Love the writing. Love the characters. Love, love, LOVE the artstyle and the music and pacing of these games (even if I am aware that they take more than a few cues from Indiana Jones). It's really, really good. But the combat is, without a doubt, the least satisfying part of the game for me. It's astonishing that I love a game so much even if I really don't like many of the actual "game" parts of it.

QFT. Word.

#19 Posted by DarthOrange (3827 posts) -

I like the combat in this game. its a little slower then uncharted 2 and yet a little faster then gears of war. Much like Goldilocks i found the third uncharted game just right.

#20 Posted by N7 (3572 posts) -

I thought the combat was phone.

#21 Posted by avidwriter (667 posts) -

I never played either but when I read that title I said "huh?"

#22 Posted by Commisar123 (1790 posts) -

I think the combat is fine, I just think some of the scenarios they set up are poor. Also certainly not the worst since U2, because Deadly Premonition had way worse combat.

#23 Edited by spazmaster666 (1965 posts) -

I kinda have to agree with the sentiment that there are parts to the combat in Uncharted 3, much like in Uncharted 2 that just feel off or imprecise compared to some other third person shooters I've played (Gears for instance). Sure UC3 has more to it than the shooting (i.e. platforming and melee combat) but as a shooter, it's definitely not best-in-class (the big dead zone doesn't help either). Also, maybe this is because I'm too used to the 360 controller, but I really dislike the placement of both analog sticks so close to each other on the DS3 and also the convex shape and texture make it very easy for my fingers to slip and make it sometimes difficult to judge which direction is being pushed (this can be fatal in certain chase sequences when you are required to run in a particular direction at a split-second notice). Uncharted 3 is definitely one of those games that make me long for my 360 controller.

#24 Posted by ESREVER (2650 posts) -

The combat is freakin' stellar! You gotta be off your rocker, or you're playing the game wrong. There's so much variety to be had and so many different ways to handle each situation. It's awesome! Try changing your look sensitivity or something. Mine's just below half.

#25 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -

I don't know why people complain about how this game feels in terms of controls and gameplay. Yes it's not the absolute best, but I would say it's more than competent. On the other hand, games like GTA (especially 4) play and control like shit yet very few people seem to complain about that.

#26 Posted by Tacoboy1986 (143 posts) -

It also doesn't help that the enemies are bullet sponges.

#27 Posted by ahgunsillyo (443 posts) -

I liked the combat quite a bit. It wasn't perfect, but I didn't have any major problems with it, nor have I had any with the previous games in the series. It's apparently significantly different from the gunplay in Uncharted 2, but I haven't played 2 recently enough for it to be too jarring for me to handle.

@SethPhotopoulos said:

I rather enjoyed the combat in Uncharted 2. I thought the way it handled was pretty good and I had no problems with the controller. But I have a blue name so what do I know.

What do the colors of the usernames mean?

#28 Posted by mastrbiggy (229 posts) -

I like everything about it except the gameplay, well I like the traversing part.

#29 Posted by Landon (4127 posts) -

@N7 said:

I thought the combat was phone.

It's probably the most phone combat I've ever experienced.

#30 Posted by Sanj (2342 posts) -

Eh? I thought the combat was the best since the first game. To each their own I guess.

#31 Posted by left4doof (286 posts) -

There is some room for improvement but its not terrible

#32 Edited by Slaker117 (4835 posts) -

The aiming is stiff and the encounters are a mess. I didn't think 2 was great in those areas either, but it was definitely better. A weird step back.

#33 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5060 posts) -

@ahgunsillyo said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

I rather enjoyed the combat in Uncharted 2. I thought the way it handled was pretty good and I had no problems with the controller. But I have a blue name so what do I know.

What do the colors of the usernames mean?

Your console "allegiance". Blue is Sony, Green is Microsoft, Red is Nintendo, PC and Neutral are very close in color so I don't remember which was which. Though some people pick the colors because they want a red name or a green name.

#34 Posted by benjaebe (2783 posts) -

I've always enjoyed the combat a fair amount. Same goes for Uncharted 3. The aiming feels a little odd but apparently they're fixing that in a patch to make it more like UC2 and the multiplayer, which would be fine by me.

#35 Posted by zombie2011 (4968 posts) -

Yeah it kinda sucks, so much so i just didn't even bother with the MP. By the time they fix it MW3 will be out and most people will have moved on it's a shame.

#36 Posted by RecSpec (3754 posts) -

The only problem I had with the combat was some of the checkpoints. There were a couple where if you didn't go a specific way you died in seconds.

#37 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

I really don't understand the complaint about gunplay. I found it to be perfectly fine. I mean hell, I doubt I would have completed the game on Hard so fast if it had sucked.

And the combat was, at worst, competent. Compared to pretty much every game I've played besides Arkham City, it's freaking stellar.

#38 Posted by Djratchet (668 posts) -

I just find the AI is too smart/accurate, especially in parts where the game fucks with my accuracy.

Examples: How can I not land a single shot in the sand storm, but soldiers can see me before I see them and shoot my ass? How come when the ship is capsizing, and my aim is all shaky from things sinking/exploding, the pirates' aim is still perfect?

Shit like that makes the constant dying I suffered on Hard feel even cheaper. And I'd like to think I'm good at these games. I breezed through U1 and U2 on Crushing with minimal difficulty.

Also, I still stand by U2 being one of the best games I have played in years, and U3, while still being good, just simply not being as fun.

#39 Posted by buzz_killington (3532 posts) -

Mess with the sensitivity. It felt weird at first, but then I found my sweet sensitivity spot and it made a huge difference.

#40 Posted by huntad (1930 posts) -

The only problem I had with the actual combat itself was how you can get killed by a sniper, or any other random shooter, while engaged in melee combat.

#41 Posted by shakra (252 posts) -

@MiniPato: I agree with this, I like the melee combat. The problem is you can't normally do it becuase there are eleven snipers and sixteen dudes with beanies for helmets and shotguns who kill you when you're just trying to brawl around.

#42 Posted by Marz (5642 posts) -
@zombie2011 said:

Yeah it kinda sucks, so much so i just didn't even bother with the MP. By the time they fix it MW3 will be out and most people will have moved on it's a shame.

multiplayer's aiming is fine, it's the single player that was goofed up.
#43 Posted by MooseHead (23 posts) -

After reading the Naughty Dog Blog post on what they did differently for the combat it makes sense why I had such a hard time with the combat. I loved Uncharted 2 and my experience with it was flawless. I was very excited to play 3 but my experienced became so soured with the shooting combat and it broke my experience. There was just something "different" that changed it enough that suddenly it was harder even though it shouldn't be. I didn't mind that the AI is quite aggressive. But the problem I had was they were too good quickly vs the time it took for me to line up head shots. At a certain point I gave up playing the game on Normal to put it on Easy so the experience could just continue.

It's the recoil of the guns that throws everything off. It's explained in the blog post that Uncharted 2 did not have recoil but the bullets were not 100% accurate. It was a smoother combat experience personally because you line it up and shoot. That also meant you use guns that you discover have more accuracy. Uncharted 3 is continuously finicky with the reticle because you have to compensate for the targeting recoil. That meant it took longer to take out enemies, meant you were exposed for much longer in the open when aiming, allowed more time for enemies to flank and in general made the combat harder.

In the end, I'm disappointed my first playthrough was not smooth and enjoyable for such a scripted game the way the developer intended it. I wish my first experience was essentially that. If I wanted harder combat, I would have put it on hard. I was disappointed that I had that experience on Normal, which I play every game.

#44 Posted by zombie2011 (4968 posts) -

@Marz said:

@zombie2011 said:

Yeah it kinda sucks, so much so i just didn't even bother with the MP. By the time they fix it MW3 will be out and most people will have moved on it's a shame.

multiplayer's aiming is fine, it's the single player that was goofed up.

Did not know that, well then i don't really care if they fix it know seeing i've already beat the SP.

#45 Posted by GJSmitty (651 posts) -

Maybe you just suck

ooohhhhh I went there

#46 Posted by shakra (252 posts) -

I didn't even look in the menus to speed up aim looking. Too late now I've finished the game, but I now feel retarded for not even checking.

#47 Edited by Vitor (2809 posts) -

@shakra said:

Guess I'm just used to a mouse. Combat in this game with a controller makes me want to weep. Everything else is amazing though, I'm just getting frustrated with this madness.

There's an aiming glitch that they're going to patch, it's not just you. The diagonal movement is broken and the reticule gets stuck on the x-axis even when you move the stick up and down a little. The deadzone is way too big.

I actually enjoyed the combat in 2, but the aiming difficulties made me somewhat frustrated when playing the latest.

Also, the sensitivity options in the menus does not fix any of this. It changes makes the reticule move faster, not more accurately with regard to your actual movements via the stick.

#48 Posted by mikey87144 (1649 posts) -

Combat is fine. I do think it's a bit less responsive than U2. Also why the hate for the PS3 controller? It works fine with a lot of shooters.

#49 Posted by Tiwi (1401 posts) -

This is a fantastic "blog"... 
 
also if it's not for you, it's not for you. There's not much more to it.

#50 Posted by SSully (4118 posts) -

@huntad said:

The only problem I had with the actual combat itself was how you can get killed by a sniper, or any other random shooter, while engaged in melee combat.

Why shouldnt you be able to? You would be able to just run around and melee enemies without worrying about being killed because you would be invincible while taking out enemies with your fists.

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