Unreal Engine 3 Forum

Unreal Engine 3 is a concept that appears in 79 games

What's with the hate?

Topic started by GeekDown on Aug. 26, 2009. Last post by torus 3 weeks, 4 days ago.
Post by GeekDown (182 posts) See mini bio
377 ACH / 7555 P

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With the releases of Shadow Complex and Arkham Asylum I have seen a lot of hate over the Unreal Engine. I don't get it, I really like the look of games with the engine and it's probably my favorite game engine if  have to choose one. I can sort of get the complaints with the facial animation but they mostly look great and the texture pop-in doesnt bother me at all.
 What do you think, does it deserve the hate or not?



Post by L33tfella_H (358 posts) See mini bio
616 ACH / 5890 P

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Personally, i don't think it's an extremely well optimized engine. There are a few games that utilize it well, but that only because the developers have studied and spent time working around all of the engine's shortcomings.


Post by FrankCanada97 (1,425 posts) See mini bio
86 ACH / 1450 P

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You can't even get Anti-Aliasing in America's Army 3.0 using that engine. But I think that's the fault of the developer and not the engine itself.


Post by addictedtopinescent (1,910 posts) See mini bio

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The faces are bullshit, but apart from that the engine doesn't bother me


Post by FlamingHobo (2,731 posts) See mini bio
1981 ACH / 36480 P

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It's a graphically great engine except it's not hugely optimised well, it needs a bit more tuning.


Post by Mordukai (2,646 posts) See mini bio
1347 ACH / 25910 P

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  • Texture pop-ins. 
  • Crappy facial rendering. 
  • Not very good at rendering vegetation, foliage.
 
It's not much hate but I think developers are starting to see that there are other options out there. CryEngine 3, idTech 5, Anvil, Dunia, Frostbite... 
UE3 is like what...3-4 years, I think.  Most of the problems that engine has should have been solved by now. 


Post by Lashe (927 posts) See mini bio
368 ACH / 6400 P

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I don't mind it, it seems to provide some alright looking games and from what I hear it's both versatile and easy to use. I say props to them. 


Post by Ahmad_Metallic (2,469 posts) See mini bio
32 ACH / 0 P

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i dont like it becuase it seems.. i dunno... seems like its made by people who wanna go LOOK AT US KICKING ASS! BADASS GRAPHICS! COMPETE WITH THAT, BITCHES !!   
its just an inner feeling, i cant express it, but i dont like how things look in the Unreal engine. they annoy my eyes


Post by ryanwho (1,557 posts) See mini bio

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Its a pretty old engine. There are better engines out there is the bottom line, dunno why people are still using this.


Post by pornstorestiffi (1,676 posts) See mini bio
2592 ACH / 51098 P

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@Mordukai said:
"
  • Texture pop-ins. 
  • Crappy facial rendering. 
  • Not very good at rendering vegetation, foliage.
 

That pretty much sums it up.


Post by RHCPfan24 (6,360 posts) See mini bio
1179 ACH / 24800 P

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@pornstorestiffi said:
" @Mordukai said:
"
  • Texture pop-ins. 
  • Crappy facial rendering. 
  • Not very good at rendering vegetation, foliage.
 

That pretty much sums it up. "
Yeah, those are my complaints too. The pop-in, mip-map effect happens with pretty much every game and it is pretty ugly. The Punisher: No Mercy Quick Look shows it at its worse and most other games have the same effect. The level of pop-in varies but it usually is close to that.


Post by Diamond (4,744 posts) See mini bio
2746 ACH / 51380 P

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The first version of UE3 and the first UE3 engine games seemed extremely poor.  They all had the same bad lighting effects, they all performed considerably worse than other engines, they all looked kind of bad.
 
Recently they've been on UE3.5, since Gears of War 2.  It's quite a bit better, arguably still far from the best looking engine, but at least now even 3rd party games are comparable to some of the best looking games which don't use UE3.
 
The bad face rendering is a combination of cheap lighting effects & bad shadow maps.  You need to throw more power in a UE3 game to get faces to come out looking right.  I find a lot of UE3 games have a washed out look, lots of really poor looking specular effects...
 
Weirdest thing I've noticed about UE3 games.  They always have lights the same shade of pink.  I've seen it in so many games.  Colors don't saturate well or realistically (Mirror's Edge is an exception which uses UE3, but obviously they really tweaked stuff heavily).  Why are there so many pink lights?  It's as if the developers are using the most basic tools and can't set their lights to red or something.


Post by leky1 (502 posts) See mini bio

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bump


Post by DCFGS3 (138 posts) See mini bio

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Just putting it out there, I would kill for a Source Engine 2.0, that engine rocked the world. The issue with Unreal is that while a very robust and versatile engine, it isn't well refined, and any refining done has to be done by the developers, who simply can't be bothered. Having said that, the competition isn't amazing.


Post by jakob187 (9,571 posts) See mini bio
2130 ACH / 40690 P

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UE3 is the lowest common denominator of "next-gen" engines.  It's affordable for most studios to license, meaning it helps keep the budget down.  Unfortunately, companies are becoming more and more willing to use a poorly optimized engine in order to make a good game that suffers from bugs and glitches galore rather than license a worthwhile engine and have a solid game. 
 
Hopefully, id Tech 5 will change all this and we can forget the travesty that is UE3.


Post by Alex_V (378 posts) See mini bio
318 ACH / 4760 P

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@DCFGS3 said:
" Just putting it out there, I would kill for a Source Engine 2.0, that engine rocked the world. The issue with Unreal is that while a very robust and versatile engine, it isn't well refined, and any refining done has to be done by the developers, who simply can't be bothered. Having said that, the competition isn't amazing. "
The Source engine is modular so doesn't work in versions (1.0, 2.0). It is continually updated, the engine is now far in advance of when HL2 was released. There's a huge misconception about the engine - I think if you look closely at L4D the engine is absolutely up to the standard of most competitors - it's just a sparse-looking game.


Post by TwoOneFive (4,832 posts) See mini bio
169 ACH / 2165 P

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all unreal engine games have a similar look and feel.  
too much of everything and none of it is all that great.  
thats why the best looking game that uses it is Gears 2, and that game is so caricature, and "videogamey" looking. I'd much rather games be made using stuff built on their own, like Naughty Dog does. 


Post by Romination (163 posts) See mini bio
150 ACH / 2445 P

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It's just too overused. I remember when it was new and I was the only one that was into it, it was cool then, but then all the poseurs came in and started liking it but THEY'RE NOT THE REAL FANS


Post by L33tfella_H (358 posts) See mini bio
616 ACH / 5890 P

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@jakob187 said:

 " Hopefully, id Tech 5 will change all this and we can forget the travesty that is UE3. "

yea, really hoping id tech 5 will be another id tech 1 or 3, cause i'm id till the day i die.


Post by Meltac (130 posts) See mini bio
901 ACH / 15982 P

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Not only the engines fault, but it feels like many games that are using the UE3 Engine, are just so boring in the colours. Shadow Complex was so boring to look at, but then theres Bioshock, which made the engine its own. And if I remember right, Borderlands is using the UE3 Engine .. just a modified one of course. 
 

@Mordukai

said:

"

  • Texture pop-ins. 
  • Crappy facial rendering. 
  • Not very good at rendering vegetation, foliage.
And this pretty much sums it up too ^^


Post by TwoOneFive (4,832 posts) See mini bio
169 ACH / 2165 P

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@Meltac said:
" Not only the engines fault, but it feels like many games that are using the UE3 Engine, is just so boring in the colours. Shadow Complex was so boring to look at, but then theres Bioshock, which made the engine its own. And if I remember right, Borderlands is using the UE3 Engine .. just a modified one of course. 
 
@Mordukai said:

"

  • Texture pop-ins. 
  • Crappy facial rendering. 
  • Not very good at rendering vegetation, foliage.
And this pretty much sums it up too ^^ "
yup that does it dude. everything looks cartoony to me in UE3 games. Not a step forward in graphics at all like the Source engine did, and when MGS4 came out, as well as Uncharted, i could never look at UE3 games again they just look so ugly in comparison


Post by dbz1995 (1,551 posts) See mini bio
176 ACH / 2235 P

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Batman looked great, but that was mainly because the developers put a great bit of time attempting to eliminate every possible problem. A lot of other games have failed at this though.


Post by mhkjtha (428 posts) See mini bio

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I think the UE3 looks and runs fantastic. Never seen any texture pop-in in UE3 games either. (keep in mind this is all from pc experience)


Post by torus (742 posts) See mini bio

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For the last time, the fact that things 'look cartoony', or what colors are used in Unreal Engine 3 games does NOT HAVE TO DO WITH UNREAL ENGINE 3. It amazes me that people think that a game engine determines how gritty or cartoony a game is. 
 
These things are caused by the engine: 
 
-Pop in (although this can be minimized by preloading textures into memory) 
-Assets handled by middleware tend to look similar (speedtree). 
-Some shaders used in UE3 games clearly haven't been modified much from the stock ones, which tends to make things look similar (again, this is an artistic decision).
 
It pretty much ends there. A lot of UE3 games overuse shader effects like bumpmapping and gloss, as well as HDR, but that's a purely artistic decision. 
The fact of the matter is that the Unreal engine is quite an excellently optimized engine with an unparalleled, extremely well supported (better than any other engine) toolset, and it is very extensible and flexible. 
 
That is not to say that there aren't more powerful game engines. However, one has to consider that: 
 
-A game engine built specifically for a single console (Naughty Dog's engine, for example) has it much easier than one built primarily for cross-platform compatibility (UE3)
-Building a game engine from scratch is far beyond the realm of possibility for most studios.
-The Unreal Engine IS occasionally shoe-horned into games it wasn't designed for. It's not really designed for large terrains/open worlds. 





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