Coffee 'n Cameras 'n Q&As: 09/04/2014

@csl316 said:

I would imagine Disney prefers their reps stick to the script whenever possible. Not his fault for sure, plus there were two more people on the panel (Ninja Theory) with no previous GB experience.

That aside, if I recall correctly, they've definitely had people on their PAX panels to talk about their games before. Same with the podcast. Same with plenty of other videos on the site. This isn't anything new and I did not intend to call it out as such - rather, to call out the obvious double standard on the part of the people doing all the harassing recently. It has nothing to do with "ethics" and everything to do with women who say things they don't like (and to a lesser extent, the people who speak out in support of those women) and I wish they'd at least be honest about it instead of pretend they suddenly care about journalistic ethics.

(I mean really, I've seen people clamoring for "objective reviews" which are not even a thing)

@patrickklepek as soon as you said mired in the muck, I stopped and listened to that old Cold War Kids song. Resuming watching this now.

@patrickklepek: Keep doing these please!!

@mikey87144: This is the Adam Schefter one from the other day I found interesting where he will tell teams what is up days before he reports it in order to get info later. Basically you are right this type of stuff happens, I don't know why people are flipping out about it now. I also can't wade deep enough into the shitstorm to actually figure out what the 1% of sane people might be complaining about.

You even use the #gamergate as a joke on twitter and people pop their heads out of trashcans to yell at you about it.

this is an excellent idea!

@dokaka: I think a lot of the amped up hatred would settle down a bit if someone, ANYONE with some amount of respect and integrity in the industry actually investigated those claims instead of defaulting to the "misogyny!" part.

You don't think that it is perhaps telling that the people you respect don't think there's something to comment on?

For once I agree with you Patrick, I think the focus being on Zoe Quinn's sex life is ridiculous and as you said I think press being in bed with developers(excuse the pun) is the least important issue and in the case of GiantBomb is the driving force for a lot of the site's best content, you know the behind the scenes looks at games and discussions with developers, that stuff is why I'm here and that's why I will stay here.

My only problem with all of this nonsense, and I apologize if you addressed this in the video, I wasn't able to watch all of it right now, but my problem is that beneath it is still this unmentioned, uncontested bullshit coming from your "side" of the "discussion." Jeff's comment on the panel the other day straight up calling people who identify as Gamer out as assholes and saying they're meaningless now and like Leigh Alexander's recent article which is just paragraphs of taking a dump on "white basement dwelling nerds" as she put it. This is all just gross and yet you and others who have a voice, aren't speaking out against Leigh or Jeff's comments, nobody is calling out all the bullshit harassment that came from self proclaimed feminists aimed at the gamergate people, it's always about how bad the anti-feminists are.

For what it's worth, for all the entertainment that Johnny V provides to the site in periphery with his absolutely insane personality, I could really care less if he does a little shilling for the products he's building. As far as I'm concerned so far, it's been pretty harmless, and some people get some free Disney Infinity figurines. It's not a big deal.

Thanks Patrick for talking about the recent harassment of women in video games. The story's been big enough to make its way to larger news outlets, and so I've fielded questions from friends who want to know what's been happening, and that sure is fun to try and explain!

The arguments of #Gamergate are heavy with that attitude, that there is one true perspective that would be obvious if everyone just dropped their biases. So there's talk about "objectivity" and "evidence" and not being "political", all assertions made while exposing deep biases in the speaker. The "evidence" is often vaguely defined, displayed with conspiracy theory aesthetics entirely without irony. On objectivity and being apolitical, a person who refrains from engaging in the politics of their subject matter is making it clear that they do not think the political issues are important, and as a consequence they implicitly support dominant paradigms with their omissions.

It's kind of amazing that in all of their bluster and certainty, I haven't seen a single #Gamergate person point to one journalistic effort and say, "This one, this is the recent article or puff piece that has resulted from corruption, this is the kind of thing I'm against."

At least there's been some great writing out of this mess, particularly by Liz Ryerson and Owen Grieve.

The Lions not making the Super Bowl is my prediction every year.

This is somewhat akin (not entirely, but some) to the "this isn't the right climate to be discussing gun control" argument that happens every time there's a major shooting in the news. The existence of nutcases coming out of the woodwork shouldn't be used as an excuse to write off discussion of a topic. I understand the concern about validating their behavior, but isn't it just as validating to say "If you do this, we'll shut down and you get the mic by default"?

Really great feature. Thanks, it's nice to get to know the people behind the talent. You come across very genuine. Keep I it up.

Thanks for your input Patrick. I'm glad that you continue to stand your ground despite the crap you get for it.

I will always care about the harassment and threats that happen to people in this industry more than I care about who fucked who, who bought who a drink, or who ate salmon with Jeff.

My take on this whole thing... IF gamergate people ARE having an intelligent and thoughtful conversation, its not working because I don't know what they are trying to say exactly. Any of the "evidence piling up" must be hiding under the hate from "loud" people... I guess? And personally for me anything that manages to come to the surface that is not charged with hate comes off as very weak points or arguments... To me personally I find it very hard to wade through the chaos and negativity to see any real valid argument, and if there is one, it's a mystery to me... honestly. So at the end of the day I have to ask if its really worth it. And ultimately I go "Nah".

Hrm. I don't know if fans would like the change to the X-Files aspect ratio. There was such an uproar last week when FXX showed the older (non-HD) episodes of the Simpsons in widescreen (which the original 19 1/2 seasons were not). Also, the clean up of the older episodes caused the show to loose details and look just wrong. Hopefully Fox learned that it's not worth the effort to do the same process to the X-Files.

Thanks for another great video, Patrick. Knowing the shit you and others get for saying stuff, I appreciate so much that you say it anyway. Keep doing what you're doing!

Definitely hope you get around to watching the rest of Twin Peaks. I know your Shocktober viewing list will be primarily made up of films and not television shows/episodes, but that show in particular might be worth working in somewhere that month. While there's a bit of a dip in momentum during the second season, it really picks up again towards the final string of episodes, and the series finale (directed by Lynch himself) is one of the most bizarre/horrifying things that's probably aired on television. I would love to hear your opinion on the whole series once you get around to it.

Also, I know the daily videos you did were time-consuming and maybe don't feel as necessary now as they did prior to the hiring of Ryckert and to Vinny moving to New York, but I do miss seeing you on camera more often. Hopefully you end up streaming some of your Demon's Souls run, even if it's similar to your Dark Souls run in that does not end up on the site itself. Anyway, love the work that you do, Patrick. Keep it up!

I would also love that, same with Jeffs Q&A videos.

You're a good man, Patrick.

@csl316 said:

None of that bothers me in the slightest. Most of Giant Bomb's connections and friendships is out there in the public, and they have been upfront about that since the beginning. Those connections give us great content in return (Building the Bastion and having a PS4 box at their E3 show pop up in my head first). That kind of stuff is what places Giant Bomb a notch above any kind of youtuber.

Having that stuff out there plus years of following them have let me know that no matter what these guys are going to give their honest opinions on stuff for the most part.

Thanks Patrick, this is really good. Regarding your commentary on the whole mess, I think you hit the nail on the head.

I have always greatly appreciated Giant Bomb's forthcomingness with disclaimers and disclosures, Patrick in particular. Years before this was the issue it is today. It's one of the big reasons I give GB my money, and why they are the first and usually only source for gaming news. They do some of the craziest stuff around with their content and live shows, but they take this profession seriously, and have in my observation have strived to raise the bar for this industry, and consistently have done so.

So basically, thank you Giant Bomb, and thank you Patrick. There is gross, awful things being thrown around from all corners at this point, and it's awesome to see you defending your stance, acknowledging the others, giving insights into details that many on the outside may not have considered, being honest about your own shortcomings, and condemning the garbage in all instances.

Keep on keeping on, duders.

It's all about how it's presented. Too much of the Johnny V segment of the panel was devoid of humor and personality, it was about the game as a product, when it should have been entertainment.

It's well deserved though. Name one good journalist that writes about games. I can't think of a single one. It's either opinion pieces, which are good, and important, if a LOT hard to read lately, or people copying and pasting press releases and doing nuts and bolts shit.

"the new 3ds will have a slightly better processor", that kind of thing. I haven't read a really good long form piece on gaming since I started playing games in the mid 80s.

@edreedfan20 said:

It's different with live action. The X-Files will have been filmed on 35mm film, so the originals will be in widescreen already, and higher definition scans will be possible with a true increase in quality. It is not like cropping and up-resing an animation. But it depends how they framed the shots, the Star Trek blu-rays are still in 4:3, because keeping the full wide frames would have included stuff that was meant to be off the frame.

I'm sick of people trying to make excuses for the vile shit that's happened during this whole gamergate debacle. Regardless of whether the intentions or pure, the end result is that a significant segment of creators and critics have been bullied into silence. We are lesser as a culture as a result.

I would take a gamergate crusader seriously if I heard them state that they actually believe that feminist critique is a welcome or at least tolerated part of the non-corrupt games journalism culture they think they're advocating.

Bob's Burgers is great btw.

You're not trying hard enough to find good material. Worth Reading has it every week! And I also helped judge this games writing award, which is FULL of amazing stuff:

• http://gamesjournalismprize.com/2013-winner/

I've read maybe three decent pieces you've linked. Most of it's been nonsense or worse. A lot of it makes me feel like I'm grading middle school papers.

Best thing I've read is probably killing is harmless by brendan keogh or masters of doom, but I was mainly thinking online writing and not so much books.

great stuff as always patrick

two things:

adding vinny to the morning show seems like the natural progression, even if once a week, or with the caveat that he might have to leave if a baby starts crying, right?

the whole horrible stuff going on, i don't think i'm the only one to say it, but i'm sick of the apologists. the people who say 'yeah, they're going about it the wrong way but nobody has answered their questions'. screw those guys. the people carrying it out, they're obviously beyond saving, but if you think they're right but going about it the wrong way, then chances are you're just wrong.

That's kind of where I'm at as well. Honestly, if there are people trying to have a legitimate conversation on the topic then stop using the gamergate hashtag. All that is doing is associating them with the hate and vile deeds that people are committing. Start a different hashtag group or something that can illustrate some distance from the garbage and maybe you'll be able to have that conversation (until it gets overrun inevitably as well at least). I just don't know why people saying "it's not all of us doing it" continue to use the tag they are trying to separate themselves from. It makes no logical sense.

@patrickklepek: Thanks for this Patrick. Good to hear your well considered words on the various hot button issues of the moment.

Whoa, you weren't kidding when you said the audio quality improves after a few minutes. Nice. :)

Huh huh, root of the problem, huh huh...

Sorry watching by myself

Patrick, actually I think the way you are doing it now is perfect video + audio (same style as Jeff's jar videos). Keep up the amazing work. You rock!!!!!!! Thanks for being so awesome to us Giant Bomb community members.

I normally agree with Patrick but by virtue of being different humans there are little details that tend to differ anyway. This time, I couldn't have agreed more with @patrickklepek. That was wonderful, thank you Patrick.

Great video @patrickklepek! I always enjoy your opinions and insightful answers to these questions. Keep up the great work dude.

I wonder if the individuals sending rape and death threats to Anita Sarkeesian have any idea of how well they're proving her point.

Hey Patrick. Thanks for the video. Your answer to the question about Ryan was so heartfelt and sincere. Obviously you knew the man a lot better than the majority of the users of this site, so again thank you for your perspective.

It is difficult to hear him brought up in the past tense, but I will always associate him with this site that I love. Long may it continue <>

#

I forth that comment! Podcasts are my medium of choice since I can always listen to podcasts, but my ability to watch videos is limited.

@patrickklepek: try this http://goodgameswriting.tumblr.com/

Kudos for the salmon pants.

@patrickklepek: great video and it was nice meeting and apologizing to you at PAX.

If the conversation has been taken over by a vocal minority who only seek to tear people down, why aren't you trying to take the focus of the conversation away from them? You're a member of the media, you have a louder megaphone, you have the ability more than the rest of us to help steer the larger narrative; why haven't you tried doing so, then?

I saw a tweet from Alex pop through my feed earlier that complained about how the dialogue has been stolen by loudmouths and how much of a bummer that is; why has that been allowed to be the case? The only thing I've seen people try to do about it has just been to bitch back at them, which is counter-productive and in Patrick's Tedx talk was a big no-no. So what do we do about it?

We apparently can't change the topic, either, because some people are being too vile right now before the rest of us can have an adult conversation about something separate since... that totally makes sense and wouldn't be an invalid rationale against any other burning issue in history ever. "Police brutality? Sorry, we can't have that conversation right now with all these riots going on." I'm sure that's how we all think about that, right? In practice, the refusal to engage with any of the criticisms associated with the "GamerGate" silliness while any harassment continues, means that we never will, because there's always going to be some level of harassment going on somewhere.

So, we can't moderate these people out of existence, because it's real life and we're not Gods. We obviously shouldn't try fighting with them on our own because that only incites a mob. But we can't talk about anything tangentially related to it while any harassment goes on, either, so the topic can't ever change. I'm beginning to see why this isn't getting any better.

What's going on right now is basically the scene from Pokemon where Metapod fights Metapod.

@marokai said:

If the conversation has been taken over by a vocal minority who only seek to tear people down, why aren't you trying to take the focus of the conversation away from them? You're a member of the media, you have a louder megaphone, you have the ability more than the rest of us to help steer the larger narrative; why haven't you tried doing so, then?

I saw a tweet from Alex pop through my feed earlier that complained about how the dialogue has been stolen by loudmouths and how much of a bummer that is; why has that been allowed to be the case? The only thing I've seen people try to do about it has just been to bitch back at them, which is counter-productive and in Patrick's Tedx talk was a big no-no. So what do we do about it?

We apparently can't change the topic, either, because some people are being too vile right now before the rest of us can have an adult conversation about something separate since... that totally makes sense and wouldn't be an invalid rationale against any other burning issue in history ever. "Police brutality? Sorry, we can't have that conversation right now with all these riots going on." I'm sure that's how we all think about that, right? In practice, the refusal to engage with any of the criticisms associated with the "GamerGate" silliness while any harassment continues, means that we never will, because there's always going to be some level of harassment going on somewhere.

So, we can't moderate these people out of existence, because it's real life and we're not Gods. We obviously shouldn't try fighting with them on our own because that only incites a mob. But we can't talk about anything tangentially related to it while any harassment goes on, either, so the topic can't ever change. I'm beginning to see why this isn't getting any better.

What's going on right now is basically the scene from Pokemon where Metapod fights Metapod.

Another thing that comes up is that people on any side of the argument are lumping way too many disparate people into the same groups together. You have legitimate concerns about how close Zoe Quinn is to certain journalists or how she's berated, slandered and harassed people that disagree with her? You must be a sexist misogynist and internet troll too! But then there's the opposite...people with concerns that paint all sympathetic games media people, even trustworthy decent folk like Patrick, as being in some kind of secret cabal with each other and should be boycotted. Neither of these helps things and neither paints an accurate picture of the bigger discussion going on.

I really enjoyed a lot of this article and how it paints these issues with a fairly moderate, middle-ground and level-headed approach. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/03/gamergate-corruption-games-anita-sarkeesian-zoe-quinn

Also: nobody deserves to be treated the way they are on the internet sometimes (or all the time, as it is for some media figures). I've been "yelled at" and harassed on Twitter and Facebook because of my religious, conservative views and it does take a toll on your psyche when that happens. All voices have a place unless they are actively trying to shut other voices out and restrict others' freedoms.

@marokai said:

If the conversation has been taken over by a vocal minority who only seek to tear people down, why aren't you trying to take the focus of the conversation away from them? You're a member of the media, you have a louder megaphone, you have the ability more than the rest of us to help steer the larger narrative; why haven't you tried doing so, then?

I saw a tweet from Alex pop through my feed earlier that complained about how the dialogue has been stolen by loudmouths and how much of a bummer that is; why has that been allowed to be the case? The only thing I've seen people try to do about it has just been to bitch back at them, which is counter-productive and in Patrick's Tedx talk was a big no-no. So what do we do about it?

We apparently can't change the topic, either, because some people are being too vile right now before the rest of us can have an adult conversation about something separate since... that totally makes sense and wouldn't be an invalid rationale against any other burning issue in history ever. "Police brutality? Sorry, we can't have that conversation right now with all these riots going on." I'm sure that's how we all think about that, right? In practice, the refusal to engage with any of the criticisms associated with the "GamerGate" silliness while any harassment continues, means that we never will, because there's always going to be some level of harassment going on somewhere.

So, we can't moderate these people out of existence, because it's real life and we're not Gods. We obviously shouldn't try fighting with them on our own because that only incites a mob. But we can't talk about anything tangentially related to it while any harassment goes on, either, so the topic can't ever change. I'm beginning to see why this isn't getting any better.

What's going on right now is basically the scene from Pokemon where Metapod fights Metapod.

Thank you. I tried to respond to Patrick's question similarly in the forum thread, but it got locked before I could finish writing it and as usual I have no way of getting back all those words I wrote (which was hard enough to figure out how I should go about responding to his question) so the best thing I think I can do is highlight what you said and say I agree.

I feel this discussion became heated because even though it's not intended as an attack it comes off as an attack to peoples beliefs and morals. This begets them feeling hurt. That begets them getting angry.

A lot of people don't know how to control their feelings on a topic and have to be right as well.

There's more to it, but that's basically how I feel about it anyway.

I can't write the whole thing again, ugh.

@marokai said:

If the conversation has been taken over by a vocal minority who only seek to tear people down, why aren't you trying to take the focus of the conversation away from them? You're a member of the media, you have a louder megaphone, you have the ability more than the rest of us to help steer the larger narrative; why haven't you tried doing so, then?

I saw a tweet from Alex pop through my feed earlier that complained about how the dialogue has been stolen by loudmouths and how much of a bummer that is; why has that been allowed to be the case? The only thing I've seen people try to do about it has just been to bitch back at them, which is counter-productive and in Patrick's Tedx talk was a big no-no. So what do we do about it?

We apparently can't change the topic, either, because some people are being too vile right now before the rest of us can have an adult conversation about something separate since... that totally makes sense and wouldn't be an invalid rationale against any other burning issue in history ever. "Police brutality? Sorry, we can't have that conversation right now with all these riots going on." I'm sure that's how we all think about that, right? In practice, the refusal to engage with any of the criticisms associated with the "GamerGate" silliness while any harassment continues, means that we never will, because there's always going to be some level of harassment going on somewhere.

So, we can't moderate these people out of existence, because it's real life and we're not Gods. We obviously shouldn't try fighting with them on our own because that only incites a mob. But we can't talk about anything tangentially related to it while any harassment goes on, either, so the topic can't ever change. I'm beginning to see why this isn't getting any better.

What's going on right now is basically the scene from Pokemon where Metapod fights Metapod.

Oh christ, Thank god someone's saying it and it's visible to someone with the megaphone and integrity to use it. Are you a unicorn? This is amazing.

Anonymous trolls have *thrived* on negative attention since the dawn of time. Since posting Mario appreciation threads in Sega forums. There's no consequences to their real life so long as the anonymity of the internet exists, so they are PUMPED when people yell at them. They love it. Having an entire industry write official letters that not only include them but tar the entire medium must have them in a pleasure vortex about now. It's been true since middle school bullies.

I won't ask you to ignore them even if I think it's the most effective path, (terrorism tactics) but christ, talk to someone else sometimes. Anyone else!

It doesn't help that all the anti gamergate people sound as patronizing as Al Gore in August.

Really great, insightful video Patrick. Thank you! I keep telling people this is where the arguments are balanced, thoughtful and informed. You never let me down.

@marokai said:

If the conversation has been taken over by a vocal minority who only seek to tear people down, why aren't you trying to take the focus of the conversation away from them? You're a member of the media, you have a louder megaphone, you have the ability more than the rest of us to help steer the larger narrative; why haven't you tried doing so, then?

I saw a tweet from Alex pop through my feed earlier that complained about how the dialogue has been stolen by loudmouths and how much of a bummer that is; why has that been allowed to be the case? The only thing I've seen people try to do about it has just been to bitch back at them, which is counter-productive and in Patrick's Tedx talk was a big no-no. So what do we do about it?

We apparently can't change the topic, either, because some people are being too vile right now before the rest of us can have an adult conversation about something separate since... that totally makes sense and wouldn't be an invalid rationale against any other burning issue in history ever. "Police brutality? Sorry, we can't have that conversation right now with all these riots going on." I'm sure that's how we all think about that, right? In practice, the refusal to engage with any of the criticisms associated with the "GamerGate" silliness while any harassment continues, means that we never will, because there's always going to be some level of harassment going on somewhere.

So, we can't moderate these people out of existence, because it's real life and we're not Gods. We obviously shouldn't try fighting with them on our own because that only incites a mob. But we can't talk about anything tangentially related to it while any harassment goes on, either, so the topic can't ever change. I'm beginning to see why this isn't getting any better.

What's going on right now is basically the scene from Pokemon where Metapod fights Metapod.

If I had to provide an honest criticism of my own talks, it's that solutions are hard to come by. I try provide is a set of recommendations and general purpose tactics that are applied on a case-by-case basis. To say there are specifics that apply to every situation is unwise, as context is everything in these situations.

I'm not saying we can't change the topic, but when the topic changes are happening in the middle of people being pushed out of the industry, folks being chased out of their homes, I'm supposed to say "you know, put that aside, and these people have a pretty good point"? I just can't do that, and it's not reasonable. Even if there are some ethical concerns hidden in the forest, they're happening in the middle of a big ol' forest fire. In a forest fire, you're worried about putting out the fire.