Coffee 'n Cameras 'n Q&As: 09/04/2014

What's incredible about ISIS and the latest and tragic news of the journalists murdered were the journalists who wanted to get in the country. They knew they were placing themselves in danger. They realized it but they wanted to get back in because they wanted to report what was happening. They wanted the world to know what the citizens who were displaced were doing. They wanted to do their job.

Nobody deserves death threats, doxxing, or harassment.

I can't imagine why somebody would do such a thing but as an extreme, it is louder than legitimate questions and will not stop.

People are searching articles, twitter posts, and more trying to find connections. Legitimate or maybe a stretch, but when the websites delete posts, ban and write articles that take the side of being victims and lumping all gamers as deranged, the shouting gets louder and again, extremists choose to harass, dox, and send death threats.

Twitter is a horrible place to discuss anything serious. What is happening are people using their followers and retweets to fan the flames, like children who feel like they need to have the last word and win.

As a website that has a lot of respect, you guys can be one of the loudest to just clear the air. Let everybody know how the Giant Bomb sausage is made.

@drabnon: I agree that everything is depressing, but the answers to your questions certainly aren't "They haven't."

A month ago Max Temkin was being (apparently falsely) accused of rape, and a year ago Phil Fish left the industry due to harassment the first time.

These are high profile examples, but I've seen others over the years, mostly leaving quietly because it seems like nobody cares. Based on your post, they're right. Nobody does.

The only reason you think that this only happens to women is because there haven't been high profile men (that I'm aware of) who have successfully channeled their harassment into a PR / fundraising campaign.

@koriar: I don't know, Max is only really tangentially related to the game industry. And Phil Fish being targeted like that was awful. But it always feels like the women get the short end of the stick. Whether it's being specifically targeted by people who hack them or randomly being harassed just for playing a game and having a girl's voice. I don't think it's too much of a leap to say that this harassment has a much more intense and more gender-focused agenda. I don't think it only happens to women, but with women it's so much more consistent. When people disagree with a male journalist or game dev the chance of them being attacked like this is so much lower. When people disagree with a female in the industry, you can always count on rape and death remarks. Saying "Hey, it happens to guys too" is kind of missing the point.

Since you're reading this Patrick, a great way to keep up on new music is by listening to NPR's All Songs Considered podcast. Some great stuff there that also helps you be hip and relevant in conversations with people who are armpit-deep in that stuff!

Sometimes not commenting on something is the best way to address it. I agree completely with how GB handled this death threat riddled bus-fire. If you want to rubberneck then I'm sure there are plenty of places that you can go and speculate.

The only reason you are talking about it is because of hateful people. That is the whole point of Patrick's argument. How do people not see this is a good thing.

Come back in a month and maybe the death threats will have died down, if you still care, rad.

Thank you for not supporting patreons that, at the very least, look bad. It really means a lot to hear something like that. This site has handled the last few weeks better than any other major gaming site that I have read pieces on.

@drabnon: Hey, I wasn't coming in trying to make anything ok by saying that it happens to men too. I was just giving you the real answer to your questions. You were the one saying that it never happens to men.

And Max is a person who develops games... I think that qualifies him as a game developer.

Recent studies have actually found that in most cases, men are harassed more often than women online. (with Journalism being the exception where they weren't)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/04/men-are-harassed-more-than-women-online.html

Even that article admits that the sample size was incredibly small and focused only on British celebrities. I doubt anyone involved in this case would have qualified as a celebrity by their definition.

@theinvinciblemark: I agree, especially on the sample size, but the only other study I could find (positive or negative) was the IRC one that the article mentions, and I think IRC from almost a decade ago is even farther away. It'd be nice to have a more general test... Maybe I could write a script to grab some data for a night. I could at least see the relative use of gendered insults really easily.

Hmm... if TotalBiscuit counts as a british celebrity then maybe people just really want to harass male british celebrities.

EDIT: Ah, just re-read your comment and you said "anyone" and not "everyone" like I thought. I'd disagree there. I think "celebrity" is very relative. If I met Jeff or Patrick on the street I'd react as though they were a celebrity, whereas if I met Kim Kardashian or Kanye West or someone, I wouldn't recognize them at all.

The biggest problem here?

Us consumers are fucking hypocrites.

The truth of the matter is that the same people who say that they want more openness within the industry also say that they don't like people critiquing the things that they love, often in any shape or form let alone on gender of fairness fronts. Likewise we say that we don't want personal relationships between press and developers colouring the way games are publicised or promoted, while at the same time ignoring the fact that often the best coverage of games comes about precisely because of those relationships. We want to have our cake and eat it.

As Patrick highlights very clearly in this video there are innate contradictions in the #gamergate movement (or whatever you wish to call it) that have allowed it to be so easily co-opted by the most unsavoury elements along us. As such we need to accept that thinking in any way that the abuse that has/is happening does not matter or only muddies the water of the real issue of industry corruption (as if the world we live in is actually some kind of anime version of the cold war) completely invalidates any argument we may have had in the first place. In many respects it's exactly the same thing as someone who does not like the idea of our military/political activities in the Middle East justifying their stance by supporting jihadists that behead people, because in the round these extremists have the same world view as them. In short, tacit support for the actions that have been going immediately kills any validity your cause may have had.

The best answer I have seen to all of this is the call for people who dislike the status-quo to put their money where their mouth is and start their own guerilla press. Walk the walk and do things your way. Fact is though, nobody will every do this because when push comes to shove we are just spineless consumers, happy to snipe from the sidelines, see conspiracies where there are none (or at least to the degree that is anyway realistic), and support the vilest radicals if it helps to prop up our own meticulously build preconceptions.

So basically what I am saying is; fuck us all - we have the industry we deserve.

Thanks for your insightful and well-spoken thoughts Patrick!

Well said, as always, Patrick.

While I understand Patrick's feeling of "We can have this conversation later because bigger, badder things are happening", it just seems like an emotional response more than anything else. The personal information being leaked for various people is horrible, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about anything else. It just feels like an easy way to avoid having any conversations about the other topics because you can just brush it off as "Well this thing that is happening is worse, so let's not talk about it right now."

The truth is, the people who are doing these horrible things to other people -- exposing personal information, death threats, etc. -- they probably aren't even a part of the conservation and probably have no interest in conversing about it. So, while we all agree it's horrible, why do we have to drop every other discussion in favor of sitting around and agreeing that what happened to them is horrible? It lacks all logic and it just seems like a way to avoid having conversations about any other issues.

That all being said, I actually don't give a crap about games writers hanging out with developers and such, because I'm not concerned whether "the reviews are honest or not" garbage that some people get hung up on. I more so want to have a conversation about how games writers will defend developers or hold back their opinions just because they're friends with someone. Or that most of the games press live in such a bubble, and they only hang out with other people who share their opinions, so they always think they're on "the right side" of the conversation and if someone disagrees, then they lump all those who disagree into the same category and then write them off. They actively will try to silence those that disagree and say that "If you disagree with us, then your opinion isn't even worth hearing. You don't need to be part of this conversation."

I'm not saying Patrick has done that (not to my knowledge at least) but it happens a lot and I don't see other people in the games press calling out each other for that kind of dishonest nonsense, and I think that's a major problem.

@patrickklepek I'm afraid the only solution to your monitor problem is to buy a third monitor.

Patrick likes Sigur Rós, this is great news.

Well spoken!

Damn, that bump on his head is super distracting.

@patrickklepek Awesome to hear you are a friend of Sigur Ros and Explosions in the Sky. You should check out This Will Destroy you. I personally am a big fan of all three bands and I feel like you would really enjoy the, They are similar to Sigur Ros and EITS but a little on the darker side. Would love to hear your thoughts. I highly recommend checking out the tracks This World Is Our ___, A Three-Legged Workhorse, The Mighty Rio Grande, or They Move on Tracks of Never Ending Light. If you respond to me It would make my week.

@patrickklepek:

lol, we've all been there.

24:00 - What a very sad reality this social climate around games has turned into. Because of random insane people on the internet have who have nothing better to do than terrorize the people they disagree with, individuals within the industry are afraid to speak out due to apprehension of their familiy's safety as well as their own.

I just...man. what. the. hell.

Great video Patrick. I always enjoy these Q and A's you and Jeff do.

"I never knew Ryan but when he passed I felt like I lost a friend"

"you and me both"

Maybe a poor choice of words. I'm pretty sure you knew Ryan.