GDC 2014 Live Stream - Part 04

Remember Steam Machines?

Apparently when you get the money from EA you lose your reason. Explaining the awful-cash-grab-ass-of-a-game Dungeon Keeper on mobile with how this is the right way and how things will go for the better... man ... are really are a lost cause.

Most of the guests just couldn't tell him to his face how bad the monetization model ruined the game and he is implying people hate him because of dungeon keeper on mobile... PEOPLE HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY OUT OF THEM WITH A BELOVED GAME YOU FUCKTARD! GOD I'm so pissed. >_<

What's with the audio? About 9 minutes in, Barnett gets cut off, the ambient sound goes up and goes down and goes up, it sounds like the party mic is being turned off and on again.

phew im glad the frog fractions guy broke the polite barrier and called paul out on his bizarre justifications.

@sorax:

That sums up the conversation perfectly, I believe.

it is as though he has been hypnotized by scientologists, the things coming from his mouth

Rami is the man! This was far the most interesting discussion in the GDC videos.

Agreed!

I think he kinda has to as an employee. And most likely being one of the people working on the game he's coming at it from a totally different viewpoint from the people who didn't like it. I don't agree with all of his points but I think he did an alright job defending the game without coming across like a shill.

Overall great conversation from everyone, would be cool if the crew got Rami on a Bombcast or something, he seems like a rad dude.

I liked Paul on all he previous videos, but I don't know, defending all that nonsense left me a bit sour on him this time around.

Rami is pretty cool, get him back on some time soon!

That Rami guy seems pretty intelligent. I would like to hear more from him.

Paul Barnett deftly talking around the reason Dungeon Keeper was straight up terrible. I love Paul, but that was some bullshit, and I think he knows it.

All rhetoric aside, the situation with Dungeon Keeper boils down to a poor marketing decision: by putting the name "Dungeon Keeper" on what otherwise would be a free-to-play casual game, EA tried to position the game to target two different market segments. This is difficult in the best of circumstances, let alone when the two target segments have such different expectations for a game, and it's generally more profitable to produce different products positioned for single, different segments.

Black & Decker faced a similar situation in the early 2000s when it tried to position its power tools to both "casual" users as well as professionals. The professionals didn't want a product positioned for casual users and stopped buying them. Black & Decker then launched the DeWalt line of power tools, positioned to target professionals only, and won back the market. In short, EA should keep the Dungeon Keeper IP for core gamers and use another IP for casual gamers.

@vlambeer: Thanks for being on the show with the guys! You're a smart freaking guy who makes awesome games to boot.

Thanks for all the kind words everybody. Just revving down from GDC and getting ready for Rezzed next week, but wanted to let you all know that your comments both here and on Twitter are super appreciated. I'd love to spend some more time with all of you on GiantBomb in the future - this was super fun to do.

I love Paul Barnett, but the lad does go on a bit. I feel like in any kind of round-table thing he's in like this, he starts a rant that takes up a third of the show.

It seems like the community here has had some real blind love for Paul, even though he has been pushing F2P and casual/mobile for a long time, which seems to be at odds with the interest of the same community. As a total outsider looking in (did I say 'seems' enough times yet?), it felt like that blind love was based on Jeff's/the crews friendship with him, noticeably when they didn't really address the EA louse thing at all. Maybe fans feel betrayed now ...I don't really have a care on it, just saying what I've perceived.

And yes, Rami is a sharp guy and has positioned himself as a strong voice/leader in the 'indie' scene. Joystiq has monopolized him when it comes to interviews/podcasts...they've been interviewing him at GDC/Gamescoms, etc for quite a while. It helps that Vlambeer is putting out good games.

As a developer, I'm fully aware of the possibility of disappearing up the teams collective ass during development, but not seeing the difference of Clash of Clans doing F2P and Dungeon Keeper doing F2P before release? I certainly haven't been that far up.

Tiny violin for Paul

I'm not sure what angered me more - Paul's stance on F2P garbage, or they way he sits on a couch with his shoes up on the cushions. What kind of savage does that? My nephew knew better when he was 4 years old. Either take off your shoes, or leave them on the floor where they belong.

Rami's 30 second comment about multiplying the game progression by three totally nailed the F2P model perfectly. +1 for him on Scoops and the Wolf.

@xrolfx: Agreed, can't understand why that didn't get mentioned. Didn't Jeff have a video of him showing off how he couldn't do anything for 24 hours, then say the same thing again on the bombcast.

Felt really uncomfortable to watch this and him just not bringing up what had clearly astonished him when he played the game.

And frankly, Paul's defense that many people writing about the game hadn't played it just didn't hold water. The criticism I read was all from people who had played to and much from people who were familiar with F2P and they all felt it was one of the worst examples they'd seen.

Sad day to watch Paul jumping through hoops to justify this one. Hopefully he's got a brighter future planned that's more worthwhile. Be a shame to watch his passion crushed working in this area of EA.

Sorry if someone mentioned this already, but what was bad about Dungeon Keeper wasn't even the fact that is was F2P, it was that is was a BAD F2P-game. It's modelled after Clash of Clans, but there is actually something to play in that game even if you don't spend money. There is NOTHING in Dungeon Keeper to do for hours and hours on end if you don't want to spend any money. It sucks!

It certainly doesn't help that they slapped a well loved IP on it, but it's not the core of the awfulness.

Dota 2 is one of the most profitable video games in the world and you can actually play it for free. What the fuck is this "No one has figured out free 2 play" non-sense? High Noon is free 2 play, is very popular, and you can actually play it for free! The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot... Very similar to DK. People were upset about the microtransactions so they.... fixed it! Ubisoft didn't complain, blame their gamers, or make up bullshit excuses they just fixed it! How many times does EA have to fuck this kind of thing up before they get it right? Other companies are not having these problems! Maybe it's because your company put microtransactions in my $60 copy of Dead Space 3!

I believe he mentioned that to illustrate how personally affected the developers were by the criticism - i.e., people they had great respect for disliked the product they created on a fundamental level. Nothing to do with being owed a good review. Hopefully, him mentioning that indicates the team in question has taken those criticisms to heart, and not just blocked out external feedback entirely (which his tangent about the awful internet response might suggest).

Oh Paul... I pray for you.

I can't believe what Paul was saying about dungeon keeper! Games that make you wait several hours to build a fucking room are disgusting! It doesn't matter how much the fucking gems cost! You put a timer on EVERYTHING! Please for the love of all things nerdy make free to play games that can actually be played for free!

Poor Paul....when your blaming other games..... just blame a big wig at EA, I mean everyone loves Paul Barnett.

This Rami guy seems pretty cool and really intelligent. Would like to hear more from him. He was poetic describing the problems with these exploitive, disgusting free to play games and how these companies are designing great games and then purposely ruining their own game by inserting insane grind and time restrictions to force you buy microtransactions over and over to play the game the way it was actually designed to be played. In the process, taking advantage of gamers in any way they can, playing on their emotions/addictions/urges to get them to buy more and more "gems" or whatever. I'm glad there's at least some companies like Valve doing f2p right with Dota 2 and so on, not everyone is as shameless as EA and these other mobile developers.

Was cringe worthy listening to Paul drone on and on defending Dungeon Keepers and it's gross microtransactions and misrepresenting why people were mad about it so he could brush off the criticism (they were mad about how the gameplay was ruined for the sake of begging them to buy more microtransactions, not that you put an old franchise on mobile, also him acting like most the people criticizing the game didn't even play it and playing the sympathy card cause there's some assholes on the internet saying mean personal things as usual was just pathetic). I'm glad the other guests somewhat called him out on the bullshit because Jeff and Patrick didn't seem to want to.

I was already a fan of Vlambeer, but this is my first exposure to Rami. what a smart, interesting guy. I hope GB can get him on the air again sometime.

Some of these comments are blowing this discussion way out of proportion. I may not agree with what Paul is saying, but yall are making it sound like he was burning bibles or something. His comments might have been somewhat out of touch or overly...poetic, but his demeanor totally doesn't deserve the shit people are giving him here.

Also, I never heard of Rami before, but that dude seems like a really insightful and smart guy. His comments were really focused and kept the discussion moving. Would love to see an interview with him sometime.

Good discussion on an interesting topic. All the guests were really likeable dudes.

Although Paul usually seems like a carefree guy, so this was certainly a different vibe from him.

Real happy Rami was there to call Paul Barnett out. I always like it when Paul Barnett makes an appearance on this site, he's a fun guy to listen to, but in this case there is no way I agree with him. Shame about the abuse him and his coworkers got, but his excuses and comparison to television or adaptations don't ring true to me. Glad he admitted they were poor at it.

@flip175: Yup, the guy has lost the plot.

I love Paul Barnett. I think he's an insightful and thoughtful guy and I've always loved hearing him on Giant Bomb content, but his argument for Dungeon Keeper was pathetic in the face of the counterpoint that Rami offered.

At some point money talks and obviously EA is making a ton of money off of Dungeon Keeper and their other FTP properties, but don't condescend to the enthusiasts and act like you're doing this out of any kind of respect to these old games.

Paul, sorry, but if your excuse for doing something shitty is "Well it's not as shitty as what these other guys are doing", then you don't really understand why it's shitty in the first place.

Rami and the Frog Fractions guy were great.

Sorry Paul, but you don't seem to get it. You are being called out for contributing to a terrible and harmful business model making a shell of a game in the process. It being named after something people have fondness for is only icing on the cake.

The part where he was talking was kinda awkward as he seem so oblivious and everyone around him just held back. Sounds like people went over the line in attacking him and not the game but that is no reason to dismiss the criticism of the game itself.

God, I hope Barnett is wrong about mobile games being the main art form of the 21st century.

Luftrausers guy is on point!

Paul's really drank the EA kool-aid, huh?

Paul whining that people crossed a line while reviewing his game? He crossed the line while making it so fuck him.

Naming shovelware Dungeon Keeper and not respecting a backlash, how fucking gone really is EA at this point? I stopped buying EA games over a year ago and I really haven't missed out on anything.

Paul Barnett is always great to listen to.