PAX East 2014: Why Internet Jerks Aren’t Going to Win, And You Can Help

Whatevs. Just gonna ignore this nonsense. May it one day end.

I used to think of Patrick as someone who I couldn't stand. I recall there being so much hate for him, and I agreed with it. He just wasn't someone who I wanted in my already accepted group of "these guys I love to listen to every week."

That lasted for a while. And it may have taken Ryan's passing for it to become apparent to me but..

I have really come to respect his opinion, but the way he words it. I love the passion that he has for his message, and I love that he has that message to begin with. I used to think he was "preaching" and now he seems to be the only one talking about these topics.

I appreciate him as part of the team very much. I regret having ever doubted him.

P.S.

This goes for Drew as well.

P.P.S
Zoey did extremely well. It was a tough act to follow and I am thoroughly impressed.
Thumbs up!

Well done Patrick and Zoe. I think it was a good idea focusing on making the internet a more positive place rather than just finger-wagging.

Maybe kids should learn at school how to communicate on the internet just like people have to learn how to use other forms of communication (business letters and phone calls for example). You know, become aware of consequences.

But I do stand my ground, it is an impulsive form of communication so no amount of law or consequence is going to change its nature. These things will exist en masse and we'll have to look at it for what it is, the unfiltered thoughts of a person that you would normally, probably, not hear in a real life conversation.

The very best we could wish for is for acting dumb, sarcasm and being overly mean to go out of fashion. And that will happen. So in that sense, better times await us. And the novelty of being able to say a lot of things on the internet that you cannot say someplace else will wear thin. In that sense I do expect a part of the internet to 'grow up'.

From what I understand, having not played it, it isn't even the placement of the device that's the problem; it's just a fucking pure unrefined deus-ex machina. It's just a spoiler for probably the worst-written moment in the whole game.

Great talk!

It is a pretty significant one, but damn the story in that "game" (hate doing that since it's fun for what it is and I'm a big MGS fan but GZ is pretty rough) is so bad, in hindsight it doesn't feel so bad. Like when I realized it I was just like ".......fucking Kojima. ugh." and just disgusted how stupid it was and how much of it shit show that became because of it.

Thats a great presentation Patrick. I saw you do the TedX version, but it had no less and possibly more impact this second time i experienced it. The humility shown in admitting the mistakes you've made during your own internet discourse gives you an extra level of credibility that makes the presentation more powerful. You arent just preaching, you are expounding wisdom from experience. That is the difference between telling, and teaching. A distinction that is founded on intent and comprehensible by all who were open to your message.

This is what i title your talk in my memory castle.

"Haters gonna hate.....dont be a hater" - by Patrick Klepek

Pass along my cheers and a big fuzzy "great job" to Zoe if you read this. Im always rooting for her.

I love the calm way that this panel was done. I cannot imagine any other way that it would have happened since it was with Patrick and Zoe. It was not inflammatory and simply called out a way for people to make the internet a better place. I have been lucky for the most part on YouTube and maybe that is because I follow people who have small audiences.

It seems to me that until a certain point the internet is like going to see a local band. The only people that show up are people who love the band. It is a lot harder to be the one person shouting "boo" in a crowd of 20 people. I would be fascinated to see if there is a tipping point where the hateful comments start showing up.

@dark_lord_spam said:

No. I used "we" because clearly nothing catastrophic happened when there were dicks using the internet in the early 2000s. Society hasn't devolved into anarchic chaos. Our economy, social structure, military and every facet of humanity continues to function with or without jerks, both online and off.

Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. Well, guess what? The world doesn't work like that. You choose to engage in social media with your real identities, be it to make a living or to enhance your quality of life, and yet you do so with the expectation of protection. You're asking for too much here. Everyone needs to learn that the world is never kind. Humanity is here because we are the dominant predators; we take advantage of any form of weakness. The moment you display this weakness, which in today's context is unnecessary information, is the moment you're allowing yourself to be preyed upon.

@fallen189: They mention this in the talk at the end

@mormonwarrior: Depression Quest isn't the only thing she's made, it just blew up and got her well known. She's made a ton of games.

Dear Zoe Quinn,

Watching this video, I think you dyed your hair since you were on that Giant Bomb GDC panel recently. Right? I say this because I'm now positive I saw you in line to pick up your badge on Friday at PAX East, but I was too unsure it was you to come up and say hi. Truly, you are a chameleon.

Sincerely,

BisonHero

I like how a year or two ago literally nobody knew who Zoe Quinn was and now she's everywhere with one fairly notable text-adventure thing under her belt. She seems insightful and cool, so I'm totally fine with it...just seems like her reputation as a game designer may be a little premature or overblown so it makes her perspective on those design-related things a little...odd. But for community/internet etiquette topics like this, I guess she's a perfect fit so that's great.

I don't recall ever being too big of a jerk on the internet....but I am definitely an asshole in real life.

The internet to me seems decent enough and understanding that shitty part of it helps. I mean when we say "12 year old on the internet" / "trolls" we are actually secretly hoping that is truly the real case right?

On the other hand real life is full of real shittiness and true ugliness (not everything of course!) that lashing out seem...I hesitate to say it, but more of an appropriate response?

Great job! You both made fantastic points and I hope that it helps make an impact.

Absolutely loved this talk and I'm sharing it wherever I can. Thanks for posting this Patrick. Oh, and for the talk too. You and Zoe killed it.

Here, here Patrick. That was inspired. People need to be less insecure about themselves, and not troll anonymously behind a veil to vent their opinions so they can feel a slight bit of happiness. Relax people. And to all the 13 year olds who most likely post offensive comments. Grow up. Or wait until you've matured before using the internet.

Great job, I'm someone who never comments on things and it got me thinking I should start pushing a bit more positivity out into the comments world

The internet seems like nothing, but a hopeless vacuum of negativity nowadays, but meaningful discussions like this make me feel hopeful. Great panel Patrick and Zoey.

@patrickklepek:

Well good enough place to start, Patrick I don't read many of the news articles posted on this site but of the ones I do read, yours have been very well written, and usually very interesting. I ended up watching bananasaurusrex's entire 8 hour spelunky run, I don't even really like spelunky.. No idea why. I appreciate what your doing, along with everyone else on the Giant Bomb crew. Keep doing what your doing.

This was a good listen.

@fallen189: I think about this and forgiveness a lot. It's easy to make dumb choices and to be compelled by emotions so strong that you can't resist. If everyone was in complete objective control of themselves 100% of the time with perfect information about the world there would be no such thing as regret in hindsight and we would all make good decisions. I think about hypocrisy a lot too. If a person addicted to cigarettes tells you not to start not to be heeded because it's hipocritical or does that person just have the hindsight that yes nicotine addiction is serious and real and lung cancer is no joke. What's important is that Patrick acknowledged his mistake corrected himself which is difficult. A lot if times the chemicals in our brains make us rationalize bad choices in the moment but questioning those choices is important and Patrick did that. Nobody is perfect and everybody makes mistakes and everyone is damned forever if that isn't acknowledged. The point of human growth and development is working to correct these mistakes and it's slow. You might say that Patrick as a public figure should be held to a higher standard but I disagree. We should all show our weaknesses because having weaknesses is human nature and so much of media is a manufactured perfection that has no basis in reality. A lot of what giant bomb is is about the 'realness' of everyone at it. Vinny and Jeff and brad and Patrick and Ryan and rorie and drew are all real people that express thier own personalities and there's nothing more 'real' than showing yourself at your weK moments and acknowledging them afterwards. I meant this to not have an aggressive tone so sorry if it sounded agressive. Thanks for asking your question because I've been thinking about these things a lot lately

"Asshole Ouroboros" is not the same as a human centipede. Still scary, but not the same thing. At all. Trust me.

Also, this was rad and I dig it. I have lifelong friends that have always been amazing people to me and others in real life but have become complete pieces of shit to other people on the internet. Imma show them this and hope they get it.

Really great panel. I especially enjoyed Zoe's portion.

Great talk, with some interesting findings from each. Especially the depersonification comments from Zoe.

My only caveat is that I've always interpreted the Don'tReadComments twitter account and PopSci's ban of comments to not be just because of asshole trolls, but because comments are filled with the least interesting and most extreme opinions, provoking pointless argument between committed poles instead of interesting discussion. I don't think all those people yelling about Obama the traitor on any tangentially political article are trolls trying to rile people up for their own entertainment. They're deadly serious, which is sad for different reasons.

Extremes dominating any large comment section and turning it into a flame war is bad on its own, but it's a separate problem from the harassment that you're usually talking about.

@scaramoosh: Dude, not cool.

Well Said Both Patrick And Zoe

No, Zoe isn't the greatest public speaker. Get over it. How would you feel if you had to give a talk in front of a crowd that big?

A great quote I've always used when listening to things like this is

"Don't listen to what they are saying. Listen to what they are trying to say."

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned it, but if you look at Japanese videos on YouTube, they've often completely blocked comments. Japan has also had some serious issues with bullying between teens, because before we all had Facebook, they all had cellphones and blogs and emails to be jerks to each other on, so now it seems like commenting is filtered out.

It's also ingrained so much in the Japanese culture that you might notice that amateur musicians, dancers and performers often wear masks or disguises, because that way you don't run the risk of getting noticed or approached in public.

It's an interesting solution.

Also, in regard to the comment Zoey displayed that reads "you pussys dont even take heroin", it is something which I believe is a gaff of the "classic" track by Viper called "You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack"

Thanks for the great talk Patrick and Zoë. I tend to lurk in most forums and comment sections, but from now on I will try to add positive (though generally not insightful) comments to things I like and call out hurtful interactions from others (hopefully without inciting more).

@scaramoosh: Please tell me this is supposed to be ironic?

Scoops and Zoe. I love you both. Great job.

I think she would have made it eventually anyway. Patrick was talking about her game before the Greenlight fiasco occured, and she still holds her own with the Bombcrew even when she isn't discussing it. (Examples: her Top 10 Games of 2013 list & her appearance on the GDC post-show.) And if it seems like she wears it on her sleeve, it's because it's specifically brought up either by other people or the topic in-general.

The Giant Bomb and Royal Rumble might be the most entertaining panels, but this was the most interesting!

@thekitkatshuffler: I was always under the impression that Drew replaced him in the "young dude who, in actuality is far older than he looks" position.

"you shouldn't blame the victim, but" *goes on to blame every victim ever*

Great talk!

Amazingly enough, I feel like we're actually getting closer to understanding this problem as more talks like this happen. Zoe's points about depersonalization were especially thought-provoking.

I mean, what if every so often, Twitter popped up a message before you posted saying "hey, remember the person you are about to tweet this to is a real person?"

I feel like such a simple thing would accomplish an almost shocking amount, merely by reminding people of something they already know. Especially if the text was blue.

Great talk, dudes. Patrick and Zoe made some really good points, Zoe especially with her practical advice on how you could approach dealing with this stuff. Patrick did a good job refining his earlier talk and expanding it, as well. His admission of his own mistakes in regards to this stuff was also pretty admirable.

This is true but i think the idea that " if you're not anonymous you wont say bad things on the internet" Is totally invalid.

I say bad things in real life too. Most people do. Hell I use the same handle almost everywhere. You can find a lot about me if you want to. Disliking someone or not agreeing with somebody doesn't change when Anonymity is removed.

Great talk! Thanks for this.

I have never played and MGS game and I didn't follow the game at all ... but even I knew about the thing Patrick mentioned for at least 2 weeks.

[edit:] @patrickklepek and Zoe ... to start doing my little part: thanks for the panel, it was really interesting and well done. Keep up the good work.

While I do think people were very mean to her in the past, I can't help but wonder if she would be half as popular or if we'd even care about her if these "jerks" didn't go after her so hard. She sure does wear it on her sleeve and bring it up every chance possible. I think in one regard, what happened to her was what allowed her entrance into the video game industry because it certainly wasn't the game she made.

Also when Patrick mentioned someone sending a picture with a bonfire and asking if he was burning his father's body kinda sounds like someone who doesn't know English well and was trying to ask if he was cremating his body. He might have been paraphrasing though.