503 Comments
Posted by Quarters

Fantastic. Drew's come a long way from the start of MGS. Can't wait to see how Metal Gear Scanlon 3 turns out. As a side note, when it comes to the location of the big reveals at the end, I think it's implied that you are inside a large hangar area for the RAY fight, and then when Ocelot is revealing everything at the end after Raiden wakes up, you are physically on top of Arsenal, which is why you hear the water and such. That's also why Solidus and Raiden are thrown off Arsenal when it crashes.

MGS2 is still awesome, even with all its zaniness. Yes, it isn't the best told story in the world by a long shot, but it is SO ambitious, and has some really good ideas. The sheer effort put into the thing is really impressive.

All that being said, though, MGS4 is still my favorite. Personally, that's the one I'm looking forward to the most. I just hope Dan gives Drew a recap of everything before they play it, because he really needs to be at the top of his game for that one so you understand how everything wraps up.

Posted by RvanceTal

The best written thing on the entire internet on Metal Gear Solid 2

http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

Posted by mrfluke
Posted by Matiaz_Tapia

@jonny_anonymous said:

Also I don't know why people can't understand the White House Primordial Soup part. it's really not hard to understand at all.

I understand it. It's just stupid.

Is it? Maybe the wording is strange, but it's otherwise a very simple analogy. Nothing more, I think.

As in, "We based our fundamental ideologies on it".

Posted by Wes899

Great job! My personal favorite of the series in the can!

Posted by jzo99

Great job guys, this is my all-time favorite GB series,

Can't wait till MGS 3

Posted by The_Infamous_C4

dan needs to do a skip cutscene play through for comparison,

Posted by DonChipotle

It's such a shame that Metal Gear Solid never got any better than this game. It's all downhill from here. We'll always have presidental sword fights. We'll always have Manhattan. We'll always have Metal Gear Solid 2.

Posted by Rasmoss

@matiaz_tapia: yeah, it basically just continues the information-like-genes metaphor. The ideas behind America grew stronger over time and eventually led to the Patriots.

Edited by MariusAquarius

The video is not working for me either. We must tweet the guys!

Posted by Shtinky

Good job, dudes; looking forward to MGS3.

Posted by sjack

It's such a shame that Metal Gear Solid never got any better than this game. It's all downhill from here. We'll always have presidental sword fights. We'll always have Manhattan. We'll always have Metal Gear Solid 2.

Personally, MGS 3 was the peak of the series for me. The amount of awesome boss fights, set pieces, crazy cool characters and overall tragic story made for a near perfect package of a game.

Posted by gla55jAw

HTML on High works for me!

The video is not working for me either. We must tweet the guys!

Posted by Xue

@gvalo said:

@xue: How is the 3DS version? Its the only version of MGS3 I don't own.

It has a rather poor framerate and pretty much requires a circle pad pro if you intend to aim a lot, but I still found it to be a really enjoyable version of the game, probably one of my favourites. Inventory management on the touch screen was nice, as well as having the over-the-shoulder aiming option and the ability to crouch-walk from Peace Walker. The 3D is some of the best I've seen on the 3DS too.

Apart from a somewhat toned down Shagohod chase sequence (3DS limitations, I imagine) and slight difficulty adjustments (Normal has one less guard per area than the PS2/HD versions, Extreme and Euro Extreme were merged together) I believe it's essentially the same game as the Subsistence version. Considering the size of the game, I was amazed they managed to fit it pretty much in it's entirety on the 3DS.

Edited by Wes899

@sjack said:

@donchipotle said:

It's such a shame that Metal Gear Solid never got any better than this game. It's all downhill from here. We'll always have presidental sword fights. We'll always have Manhattan. We'll always have Metal Gear Solid 2.

Personally, MGS 3 was the peak of the series for me. The amount of awesome boss fights, set pieces, crazy cool characters and overall tragic story made for a near perfect package of a game.

Everything about 3 is cool except the part where you play it, at least for me. I'm not actually good at stealth games. I'm not a run and gun guy in these, but I don't reset or kill myself if I get caught. Led to a lot of sitting in MGS3 healing menus. 1 and 2 were the sweet spot for me because you didn't have to be ultra patient/sneaky to complete them and have fun. Also I got lost in 3 a lot. All my own fault, but still a valid enough reason to dislike 3.

Posted by Vasta_Narada

It's funny how much more sophisticated Drew is than Dan, while Dan will happily take Kojima's insanity with "but you sword fight the president" Drew immediately sees it for some of the wishy washy buzzword bullshit the plot actually is.

I kinda like Metal Gear but I still can't take the plot seriously, I just appreciate it for some of the easter eggs and elaborate characters. I dunno why some people won't just admit that it's dumb, it's an elaborate form of dumb, but it's still dumb.

I agree with you 100% that the story is incredibly dumb, but the storytelling that people love about MGS is not the overt storytelling--it's the meta-commentary that makes up the hidden storytelling. Like the scene where Snake is philosophizing to Raiden at the end: he's not talking to Raiden, he's talking to the player. But Raiden is supposed to be the player, even after Raiden has been developed into his own character instead of the player's substitute he was at the beginning. Or when the S3 plot is revealed to be developing Solid Snakes--and Dan noted this as well--that's about how the game is shaping the player.

There's a reason that Raiden is such a piece of shit that you hate dealing with. Raiden wants to be Solid Snake just as bad as the player wanted to play Snake when they first picked up the game. All the VR that he did, simulating being Snake, is just referring to the player having plyed MGS1. Raiden hates talking to Rose over codec because the player hates it--who wants to have Rose on codec instead of Mei Ling?

That's not to say that the story that is presented to the player is poor, but the dumb part isn't what people are appreciating--at least not with the sophisticated attitude you're mentioning. There's a really good in-depth investigation of MGS2 that, while pretty lengthy, articulates this much better than I ever could. It also presents some quite interesting theories about the story of MGS2, such as the idea of the entire game taking place inside an actual VR simulation.

Posted by Xel

Wait, how can the Patriots' AI claim the exercise was a resounding success when the efforts of Snake, Otacon, Raiden and Emma ended up destroying GW? They were able to control most of the situation from behind the scenes, not everything like they claimed in that final conversation with Raiden.

Posted by cbarnes86

Granted, the gameplay of MGS: Revengeance wasn't "great," I thoroughly enjoyed it and its story. I'm surprised Dan didn't care much for it. I feel like if he beat it (maybe he did?), he would LOVE how insane it gets. Definitely my least favorite in the franchise, but a 7/10 is still pretty great in my book!

Posted by DonChipotle

@sjack said:

@donchipotle said:

It's such a shame that Metal Gear Solid never got any better than this game. It's all downhill from here. We'll always have presidental sword fights. We'll always have Manhattan. We'll always have Metal Gear Solid 2.

Personally, MGS 3 was the peak of the series for me. The amount of awesome boss fights, set pieces, crazy cool characters and overall tragic story made for a near perfect package of a game.

I thought the bosses to be the worst in the series, actually, and this is from someone who thought the B and B Corps was the worst kind of stupid (Get it, it's like a callback to ALL THE BOSSES!). At least with FOXHOUND, Dead Cell, and B and B you had a little bit more reason and care and information about the bosses other than "Okay well it's been a bit since your last fight, here's crazy limbs, go nuts" The majority of the characters I found completely uninteresting, something that would carry over into MGS 4 and even into Peacewalker/GZ. I mean, yeah, The Boss is a good character but she's the only one in a game filled with uninteresting archetypes.

Metal Gear Solid 3 is like half remembered so fondly specifically because of its last twenty minutes or so. I mean, I appreciate them trying to make an interesting lead character because lord knows Solid Snake is not a good character until, like, MGS 4. I don't hate MGS 3 by any means, I just think that some of its more gameplay specific hangups (menus, inventory stuff) and its characters top it from being great. Some may like how it's kind of a more...reserved and blatant spy thriller type of story (reserved is not something anyone should associate with MGS) and that's cool, I just wasn't a fan of the players on the chessboard that is MGS 3's narrative. Then again, I also hate MGS 4 for kind of similar reasons so I guess my problem is that I need to stop caring about the narrative in MGS games because they are all pretty dumb.

But I just remembered that MGS 3 has Para-Medic and she talks about movies to you when you save and I fucking love movies and her movie talks so actually disregard everything I just said.

Posted by bitsrboolean

Getting "Failed - No File" on the HD version.

Posted by mattgriffin

File Not Found

Posted by Alucitary

@xel said:

Wait, how can the Patriots' AI claim the exercise was a resounding success when the efforts of Snake, Otacon, Raiden and Emma ended up destroying GW? They were able to control most of the situation from behind the scenes, not everything like they claimed in that final conversation with Raiden.

GW was never destroyed it was only warped into the messed up Colonel AI. The success was that it was able to collect the full S3 plan data, and crash into Manhattan where it could be retrieved by Ocelot. GW's S3 data is later used to construct and empower Outer Haven in MGS4.

Posted by Xel

@xel said:

Wait, how can the Patriots' AI claim the exercise was a resounding success when the efforts of Snake, Otacon, Raiden and Emma ended up destroying GW? They were able to control most of the situation from behind the scenes, not everything like they claimed in that final conversation with Raiden.

GW was never destroyed it was only warped into the messed up Colonel AI. The success was that it was able to collect the full S3 plan data, and crash into Manhattan where it could be retrieved by Ocelot. GW's S3 data is later used to construct and empower Outer Haven in MGS4.

Thanks, I think I was confused when Raiden said the AI was destroyed, and the Colonel responded with "only GW".

I'll need to replay MGS4 again to remember the exact details.

Posted by Max_Cherry

Broken video

Posted by sjack

@sjack said:

@donchipotle said:

It's such a shame that Metal Gear Solid never got any better than this game. It's all downhill from here. We'll always have presidental sword fights. We'll always have Manhattan. We'll always have Metal Gear Solid 2.

Personally, MGS 3 was the peak of the series for me. The amount of awesome boss fights, set pieces, crazy cool characters and overall tragic story made for a near perfect package of a game.

I thought the bosses to be the worst in the series, actually, and this is from someone who thought the B and B Corps was the worst kind of stupid (Get it, it's like a callback to ALL THE BOSSES!). At least with FOXHOUND, Dead Cell, and B and B you had a little bit more reason and care and information about the bosses other than "Okay well it's been a bit since your last fight, here's crazy limbs, go nuts" The majority of the characters I found completely uninteresting, something that would carry over into MGS 4 and even into Peacewalker/GZ. I mean, yeah, The Boss is a good character but she's the only one in a game filled with uninteresting archetypes.

Oh yeah, in terms of backstory, it's practically non existent for the boss characters in 3. I'm talking more about the gameplay in the actual fights to be really cool (e.g. sniper fight with The End that can last for an hour, going through the river of dead when confronting the sorrow, the Fury's cool design, the Fear basically being predator)

Also, while the last 20 minutes of MGS 3 are incredible, I'm also referring to Snake's interaction with EVA, Young Ocelot's shenanigans with Snake all the weird dumb easter eggs with your codec buddies. The menu and inventory managing is a pain in the butt, but introduction of a 3D camera to the series, as well as all the crazy and multitude of gameplay options it gives you make it the most re-playable in my mind. Case in point:

Edited by DarkeyeHails

@davidh219 said:

EDIT: After listening to Dan talk about the story, I can see where people are coming from with their love for it on a series-wide level. If things really do get answered and tie in like he claims, I can forgive 2 for being so verbose and vague. MGS2 is kind of an art game, if you think about it.

MGS4 has that end of a franchise feel and at times almost awkwardly addresses a whole pile of stuff that has come up over the course of the series. So there are answers, it is just that those answers aren't... all that great. Basically it is just Kojima alternating between yelling Nanomachines and Ocelot.

Whatever people may feel about Metal Gear as a series, and I am torn myself, I am sure we can all agree that Metal Gear Scanlon is great. You're in the Reboot of my heart, Drew. Great stuff.

Posted by HoodCommando

May as well just quit now Drew. This is the absolute pinnacle of the series. It's only downhill from here. Series goes to shit in a major way after this.

Metal Gear Solid 3 is much better than Metal Gear Solid 2.

Posted by Sneakybadger

The music in the long shot of the statue just before the credits gave me flashbacks to Gran Turismo 5s menu music.

Posted by Victor018

HD is broken

Posted by sdowling3516

This is the reason I subscribed and I can't wait until MGS 3. Still one of my favorite games

Posted by sjack

@danryckert Hey Dan, if you're going to do a preview video for MGS 3 with Drew like you did with MGS 2 please don't show any footage with Young Ocelot. I want to see Drew's authentic reaction to seeing him for the first time.

Posted by RVonE

Amazon S3.

Posted by tonygxp

Merry Christmas, it's just what I wanted!

Edited by cr0pduster

1-3 are all pretty great in their own way, and 3 actually has large chunks of gameplay for the first time in the series. 2 has grown on me over the years just because of how much it messed with my expectations.

4 feels more like a MGS Saturday morning cartoon. A big mess of fan service where every character who's still alive shows up and at least 3 that are dead. Killed a lot of my enthusiasm and respect for the series, and any interest in the wider story. Super dumb game.

But still fingers crossed for Phantom Pain.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

@jonny_anonymous said:

Also I don't know why people can't understand the White House Primordial Soup part. it's really not hard to understand at all.

I understand it. It's just stupid.

Not really, not at all in fact in the grand scheme of things.

Posted by Lucien_Lachance

@cr0pduster: "4 feels more like a MGS Saturday morning cartoon."

Which is exactly why I loved it so much. Liquid Ocelot is such a great cartoon villain and so much fun to watch. The Raiden/Vamp fight was where I had my Dan moment of "a breakdancing cyborg ninja is fighting a flamenco dancing vampire! This is the best series!" My only problem is the entirety of the epilogue, which, granted, is a pretty big problem. The ending would have been so much better if they had just cut that whole section out.

Posted by Radish

Drew loses a little from this, but honestly he could never experience it like the people that played it the week it came out. As Dan says no one expected this game to be so nuts. Drew went in knowing something was up but we thought this was just going to be another military action adventure with Snake.

Edited by AuthenticM

@drewbert playing MGS3 will prove to be very refresing for you, Drew. One, the story is simple and not convoluted. Two, the story is better. Three, it is set in Cold War shit and you love it. And four, the gameplay is tons better. You control the camera this time around, à la Splinter Cell. So don't wait too long before playing it ! :)

Posted by sjack

@cr0pduster: "4 feels more like a MGS Saturday morning cartoon."

Which is exactly why I loved it so much. Liquid Ocelot is such a great cartoon villain and so much fun to watch. The Raiden/Vamp fight was where I had my Dan moment of "a breakdancing cyborg ninja is fighting a flamenco dancing vampire! This is the best series!" My only problem is the entirety of the epilogue, which, granted, is a pretty big problem. The ending would have been so much better if they had just cut that whole section out.

B-but this is good, isn't it?

Seriously though, that ending is up there with 3's for making me cry the most.

Posted by ColonelXanders

Outstanding Drew! You got the final boss down way way faster than I did when I played it for the first time.

Really glad you'll be giving MGS3 a shot in the New Year sometime. Particularly the HD/Subsistence version sorts out any issues I had with the initial release. It is still incredibly wacky and amazing but without any vague waffling or incoherence. You will see weird stuff, but you will know why.

Well, sometimes.

Posted by MrMazz

Dose Solidus have like flint on th ebottom of his boots or something. Why dose he always come in with fire trailing him? That can't bee good for the VR platform thingy they're on.

Posted by bigmess

It's a Chrimbus miracle! I got the video to work on high settings!

Posted by mattgriffin

I just got it to play through Plex. You might have to add the giant bomb channel and link it to your account here, but it's totally watchable in Plex.

plex.tv

Posted by Tits_Matador

I know it's a long way off and we could all be dead by then, but I hope they have Jeff join them for at least parts of MGS4.

Edited by cr0pduster

@lucien_lachance said:

@cr0pduster: "4 feels more like a MGS Saturday morning cartoon."

Which is exactly why I loved it so much. Liquid Ocelot is such a great cartoon villain and so much fun to watch. The Raiden/Vamp fight was where I had my Dan moment of "a breakdancing cyborg ninja is fighting a flamenco dancing vampire! This is the best series!" My only problem is the entirety of the epilogue, which, granted, is a pretty big problem. The ending would have been so much better if they had just cut that whole section out.

The Big Momma monologue in act 3 was what killed it for me. Wrapping up all the loose ends in one game was a noble goal but everything all seemed so random and unsatisfying that I honestly hope the whole game gets retconned.
But I understand what you mean, it's definitely not lacking on the spectacle front.

Posted by Nasar7

I like how Dan had to teach Drew how boss fights work in video games at the end there.

Edited by Pilgore

Seems pretty clear to me now after having watched Drew play trough MGS1 and MGS2 that he's not that into the series. The controls, crappy writing, and insanity of it all is not for everyone. You need to *like* the crappyness in an endearing kind of way.

Edited by yyZiggurat

Dan is spot on about the "people who played immediately think it's bat shit crazy and don't understand it after the first playthrough"/"it takes time to appreciate MGS2."

When I played this game as a teenager I was way into the action, the spy fiction part of the series. I dismissed all of the ending as complete BS. I rolled my eyes at all the everything that happens after the Ray(s) fight and got through the ending. A few people told me how I was wrong and that it was the best game in the series because it was post modern, I didn't listen to them.

I never thought of replaying it, so watching the cutscenes and listening to the codec calls in this series was my first time revisiting it. It's only now, in 2014, after wikileaks put out the U.S.' dirty laundry on a torrent to disperse information the government was trying to contain and Snowden leaked the news that the NSA's developed a program to spy on pretty much everyone, do I realize how much that part of MGS2 (GW) was ahead of it's time. And Dan was right, I appreciate that part of MGS2 now. There are still some things I think are way out there but I coming away from this with a much better opinion of this game.

Thanks, Dan, for convincing Drew to do this, Drew for agreeing to put yourself through this, and Jason for recording it!