The Consequences of Bullying Are Inspiring Silent Enemy

Guess I should count myself as lucky then I'm an artist and wasn't bullied, but you make good point kids who are different from the norm tend to get picked on.

I saw this pop up a few days ago, and I've been giving it a lot of thought. I did most of my adolescent growing up in the 90's, during that time my dads store was closed, my mother wasn't working for a few years while she went back to school and being the kids we didn't get "stuff" with the same regularity as class mates. You'd be amazed how fast things like "poor kid" or "dirty" begin getting bandied about, especially when your clothing is clearly from goodwill or from the cheaper department stores.

The worst experience I had was when I got a GameBoy pocket and Metroid 2, this was a huge expense for my parents and it was something I coveted it was my pride and joy. So the bullies in my life upset that the "poor kid" had a nice new piece of kit, within 2 weeks took it from me and smashed it. It's something I still remember rather vividly, it sucks but as time went on my parents fortunes and my own improved and events like this began to kinda disappear.

I am very well aware that my "experiences" with bullying in my early years is not how everyone's went, I know some involved far more violence than my own and perhaps they weren't exactly as well equipped to shrug of being picked on for things outside of their control as I was. This is what makes the issue so hard to tackle in an effective manner (What we're doing is NOT effective.) no two instances are the same, and some like Golguin had pointed out can be extremely dangerous.

I made a friend in my last year of public school (K-8), he had ADHD and acted out in ways some people didn't quite understand and so I witnessed him get bullied pretty mercilessly. He had been moved from a few different schools, and each one he had been bullied in different ways. I ended that isolation, and because of that I changed his perception of the world outside and his life throughout high school (We remained very close friends, but we went to different high schools) was MUCH better.

Do I think this video game is going to capture any of that? No probably not, but I won't condemn them or accuse them of ulterior motives for trying either.

I would say it exploits the fetishization of guns in modern culture, but either way. I'm certainly not in favor of bullying, but I think people use that term to mean a lot of things these days, to the point where it just comes off as whining. Maybe all the people working on this game did have the shit beat out of them when they were younger just because they were a little different, but I find that hard to believe. More likely that not they weren't part of the 'popular clique' and maybe were made fun of by those people. That's not bullying IMO. That's just people being dicks, and a person should have enough self-esteem to be able to deal with people being dicks, because that ain't ever going to go away completely.

While somewhat mild, that's assault, and we have a system in place to punish those who assault.

been told they would be killed

Depending on how credible the threat is, uttering death threats is also illegal.

derogatory terms,

Sorry, derogatory terms is something you have to learn to deal with. I got called a "dumb fuck" the other day for daring to do my job. I cannot arrest that person for being mean.

thrown down flights of steps

Thrown down a flight of steps? There are people being thrown down flights of steps, a potentially lethal form of assault, who do not go to police? Someone who has had a severe form of assault inflicted upon them gets my sympathy, but not if they refuse to do absolutely anything to rectify the situation.

None of that exists in the "reality of adulthood." Being in an adult environment is absolutely nothing like any sort of actual bullying that happens in schools.

Being in an adult environment actually is like the bullying that happens in schools, the only difference is is that you expect an adult to exercise their rights. Because of course they would. It's not a matter of "it's kids so it's inherently different", it's that no one ever seeks actual legal justice for assault committed in school, so we develop this idea that it's this lawless zone where there's nothing to stop people from punching someone else in the face. In the adult world, there's also nothing to stop people from punching someone else in the face, but there are available punitive and renumerative measures, and adults are likely to use them.

Rather than instruct kids on what it's like to live in the adult world (as in, someone injures you, you go to the police), we want to develop all these insane intermediate measures, often at the expense of the curriculum. I'd rather you spent 27,000 dollars on new science textbooks than to hire more counsellors to provide emotional comfort that simply will not be there once they're in college.

I was bullied in school. Do you know what did more for me than any counselor or lecturer? It was my first law class I took in university. There were no law or civics classes in my high school. And there never will be if we're spending money on "anti-bullying" measures rather than education. Unless that anti-bullying measure is a full civics class.

As someone with a lot of personal experience on the subject, it would be interesting to see what they might accomplish. I always found it interesting listening to people with little to no actual experience sit around and talk about the subject because it's so.. amusingly misinformed. It's one of those things you just don't really grasp until you've been on the receiving end.

yay \o/ another boring moralistic art project, so in the lyrics of 'The Who' - I Won't Get Fooled Again

I think people tend to really under play Bullying or misinterpret bullying as just being made fun of or being called names occasionally and that is something that everyone experiences. Over the years some of the kids that were reported to in the news that killed themselves because of the result of bullying were shoved around on a daily basis, been told they would be killed, derogatory terms, thrown down flights of steps, etc, etc. None of that exists in the "reality of adulthood." Being in an adult environment is absolutely nothing like any sort of actual bullying that happens in schools.

Watch the documentary "Bully" on netflix and then try to honestly tell me that what happens to those kids is what adults deal with the on a day to day basis, because it surely isn't what I experienced in what you consider to be "adulthood."

@voshinova: lol

I look at it even more cynically. It plays specifically to the type of people who see themselves solely as victims in the world, exploiting a terrible character trait in the target audience in order to make a product more attractive.

It's the "nice guy" version of a headless tits-torso pack-in.

@groverat said:

A great point lost in the rest of the comments. This idea seems like a gross oversimplification that will make the "I just want video games to make me feel something" crowd happy, but won't ultimately make any sort of coherent or fair point and make absolutely no difference in the bullying debate.

@hailinel: You might be surprised, actually.

@jdevlin24tgb: I wasn't trying to say that bullying isn't prevalent, but that it isn't as personal of a story. Hm, look at it this way, Papa y Yo feels like a narrative specific to one person. A story that has thematic hooks in the life of one of the writers. Bullying is far more general. Sure, everybody deals with it, or a lot of people anyway, but it isn't as personal. Maybe I'm wrong, and they'll find a way to make the story feel more personal, but bullying is such an overdone topic, that'll be hard to accomplish.

Are you saying that bullying is best in life?

Your last line is key. I believe that the line for finding a solution to bullying is very thin. Sway too much to either a passive/dismissive approach or overaggressive disciplinary action can be detrimental and ultimately more damaging. We both agree there--no question. My argument was that "Susan from the video" was way too dismissive and her approach seemed to be, and I'll quote myself again, "If you think happy thoughts, you won't get bullied." I disagree more with her attitude toward the victims of bullying than with her outlook on how to deal with bullies.

And of course, anytime there is someone who spews ALL CAPS BULLSHIT in one line without making a coherent point, that helps no one. Both sides of the coin have a little dirt on them that we just have to brush off or ignore.

Shut up and give me your lunch money.

The moral lesson is that all game developers got bullied.

I agree wholeheartedly. People who are cynical towards the concept of this game seem to me the kinds of people who would challenge ANY indie game utilizing sensitive topics as just "manipulating" or "trying to make a profit through people's emotions". Bullying is a serious issue; I think that we should see how this game turns out. If it's both a good game and treats this subject with the right amount of weight, then I would consider it a success.

Yeah, no.

....Wow did they just rip off an Amanda Todd video idea?

I'm not comfortable with that.

amusing that they’re representing bullies with the most intelligent, misunderstood birds on Earth, ostracized for how they look + sound

And how is that different from how it ever was? Did we not have telephones when we grew up?

Furthermore, how does 'catching wind' of people talking shit about you constitute a campaign of harassment? Unfortunately we cannot police people's speech so that it conforms to what we want to hear. What's your solution for people being rude to people? If someone zoomed into this topic twelve seconds from now and called us cockshit fuckheads, would the appropriate reaction to be ignore them and continue on with our lives, or to keel back in horror, and fall to pieces and hope someone, anyone, could come in here and validate our feelings?

I understand that teenagers don't understand how to ignore insults or control their feelings, this is something you learn through experience. It makes sense to take care of them as they develop these skills, and attempt to guide their decision making... it does not make sense to attempt to bubblewrap the entire world to protect their feelings. It's not going to work, and even if it did, they'll become adults who don't understand how to deal with insults.

Remember also that assault is assault. 'Bullying' is not assault, assault is assault. And in cases of assault, you call the police. No one will ever strike me or threaten to strike me and not wind up either arrested, fined or with a civil suit on their hands. And this goes double for my child. That's what living in a lawful society is.

@sadisticwolf: By accepting bullying as a valid form of preparing children for an adult life, we are endorsing a life that flagrantly tolerates, accepts, and even glorifies behavior that is, put frankly, archaic at best and undeserving of a modern peoples. So yes, we are preparing children for life. However, we are also, by accepting bullying as a means of preparation, allowing it to exist later on. This is self-perpetuating behavior.

We are forcing "B" onto children because "A" exists, but "A" continues to exist because we demand that children endure "B." If we took "B" away and punished the thing that caused "A" (i.e., bad parenting, poor dialogue skills between individuals, tolerance for unnecessary violence, etc), then neither would be as common. Yes, they would still exist on some level, but to say we ought not act because we cannot eradicate the issue entirely is to say we ought to tolerate racism because it'll never be eradicated entirely.

I have to admit, I was never bullied as a kid. What has caused me to examine this debate has been my work with children as an adult. Some children simply are not strong enough to overcome these issues. To then demand they suffer is to condemn the man not intelligent enough for an exam to pass it, lest he suffer for 18+ years.

I think it's less about strengthening as about preparing teenagers and children for the realities of adulthood. Assholes exist everywhere in the world and you're much more prepared to understand how to deal with those people when you are younger, the consequences are lower and when you have parents and educators as a support structure to aid you throughout the process. A mass market media campaign to highlight that bullying is bad and that bullies should understand that their actions have consequences far beyond what they imagine will occur is fine and acceptable but most of the criticism, whether presented poorly or not, is that these efforts are only going to shield children from the realities of adulthood until they are thrust into situations where the consequences of dealing with assholes will be dire and the victims have no experience in how to save themselves from physical or emotional harm.

Bullying finds kids even if they take your advice about F-book, though. If a kid is really determined to get at someone else, he or she will find them via text, Twitter, email, or a plain old phone call. Even if you're not on Twitter or whatever, that may not even help. In a suburb of my city a kid started a Twitter account about HS crushes which predictably turned into students getting called out by name for being gay, having a small penis, and in one case, having a "huge bush." It would be easy enough for a student to get wind of that, whether or not they're on social media.

@firecracker22

It appears either you or these kids doesn't understand how Facebook works. If you are receiving insults on Facebook, set your account to private. If you are still receiving insults, _maybe don't friend the people who you are bullying you_. Or how about just don't go on Facebook? My God, I was bullied in school, and if I walked around some parts of town dicks would yell insults at me. So I didn't go to the skate park. This is telling kids to continue going to the skate park, and that if you are insulted to call a police officer. Bullying doesn't "follow kids home", they continue to interact with it on their personal time because they choose to. That's immaturity and it's to be expected, but rather than accept eventually someone will mature and go 'why do I even talk to this person if I can't stand them', what the suggestion is is permanently immaturity. Rather than learn to ignore and not spend time with assholes, we tell them their victimization is of such magnitude and that their oppression will never end and that the only solution is for an authority figure to punish the offender. Fantastic. I wonder why today's generation continues buying game franchises they hate, but now it maybe makes sense.

The kids will look up and scream "stop bullying us!" And the bullies will look down and whisper "... that's two for flinching."

That's fair. I can agree with you on that.

Usually the comment section on GB is less disappointing than this.

My question to all the people that say bullying isn't a big deal. Why do you feel a need to defend something like bullying? I agree that there's a lot of coverage on bullying in the media right now. Do the PSAs and documentaries, that you can avoid if you see fit, annoy you because of their frequency and visibility or because you actually think the act of bullying is being blown out of proportion?

There are a lot of people out there that can benefit and heal from things like this. Even if this ends up not helping a single person it is always good to try and help people. There's really no reason to be against something like this.

This whole damn trailer was just playing to the emotions of people who have been bullied. Maybe if they would have shown/talked about a little more gameplay instead of just the dev team holding signs saying "we were bullied just like you man".

Here I was hoping for a game where you secretly fart on someone and then slip away, how disappointing.

I don't know how the game will be but this trailer is pure manipulation. It tries to make you emotionally invested in bullying, for what cause? To buy their game? Fuck. That.

It would have been fine if they just made a video with a bunch of people discuss bullying and explaining what their game was about. But this garbage trailer has the music, black and white visuals and the cards just like those Youtube videos. WTF.

But hey, hope the game is good.

No one said having a social commentary within a videogame make such videogame automatically good.. that is your fail assumption. As with everything execution counts.

I would say however, people flipping out because of this videogame subject speaks of the lack of diversity in the medium, and the lack of tolarance for something different in a huge chunk of the audience.

I don't know about that. I mean, is the bullying market even a thing?

I think the video can come across as esoteric, or maybe pretentious, or maybe too metaphorical a concept for some people watching it.

But, I don't think marketing ploy comes across for me. Especially given how people described PAPO Y YO and how the storytelling was done in that.

Wait, how is this showing up in the forums?

Bulling now isn't what it was before. Half of you guys saying that people need thicker skin NOW, probably wouldn't be able to stand it now any way. Mainly because before, you needed to only physically be in school to get it. Now, you'll get as your're physically in school and out of school as well.

Things like spamming you're facbook page, spamming you on twitter and unleashing some vicious ass shit on youtube or on a photo hosting site carries shit over from your school day crap. When I was kid, bullying was pretty much confined to school. So, kids dealing with it would make it through the day and not have to deal with it when they got home or on the weekends or while on vacation break. But, not now. Motherfuckers can mind fuck the hell out of you beyond school because of social media and the fact that every 12 year old seems to own a damn cellphone that has more capabilities than my pc did 15 years ago. So, when you get someone on your ass...you'll most likely get them on your ass 24/7.

I'm amazed that most of you people aren't even aware of these things. Have any of you even seen the number of kids (kids, as in UNDER 18 years old) that have committed suicide because of out of hand some of this shit even gets?

I always find it odd when people defend bullying by claiming that it strengthen's people.

I'm not saying they're wrong. However, what sort of strength do they gain? Let us simply examine our society and see whether or not the strength we have is one we would like to keep. Personally, while I do quite favor Western society, I am not very impressed by our lack of impulse control and our desire to destroy or kill that which we do not understand.

It would seem that the strength we garner when bullied is one of fear, one based entirely off of paranoia, one where we must resolve to belittle, dehumanize, and abandon all those who we believe might be or eventually become stronger than us.

Bullying, to me, seems childish and to allow our society to try and flourish under it is to build peace through weaponry, rather than dialogue or logic.

This screams marketing ploy. They better send some of the profits from this game to help bullied kids.

You're pretty much tinker bell, dude.

Quoted for emphasis.

There are some jaded dudes in here.

I see no problem with them trying to tackle this topic in their new game, or that they're generally interested in the more "depressing" aspects of life and actively incorporate those themes into their work. What could ever be wrong with that? There are so many developers saturating the market with shooters, RPGs, strategy and sports games already, I can't say I'm worried that a few "Papo y Yos" will suddenly transform the gaming industry into a hyper-sensitive niche of media. Also, nobody should even begin to care about side-effects like that; I WANT developers to be able to work on stuff that's important to them.
Just like similar experiences can have a drastically dissimilar impact on different persons, these devs just seem to value these issues higher than others, it's great they get to incorporate them into their creative output, actually.

Now, if this game will turn out to be any good or not is an entirely different discussion. Papo I did not enjoy, so I'm rather sceptic.

@fiberpay: Yeah. Is it a requirement to have been bullied and/or abused to get a job at Minority Media?

No? Then don't make this "We Are The World" ad, just state your business and get on with it.

I don't like the subject of bullying at all. Whenever it comes up, nearly everyone comes with a 'solution' they so readily believe in, while there really is no standard for that stuff. Half of the people believing their solution will work, the other half not believing it could.

I feel nothing solid and concrete every comes out of this argument except for: you really don't know.

@jerseyscum: I must have lived a sheltered life. I literally thought when she burst into the bathroom, she was trying to open a jar of pickles or something.

Exclusive gameplay footage?

Fine, let them make it - as long as they include Guile's theme. Then it'll be a cool game.

@hailinel: I have to disagree. My whole point is that the issue is complex. You can't solve it just by being 'against bullying'. You need to address cultural problems. I mean seriously, have you ever stopped to wonder (as an adult who is capable of logical processees) what makes these kids into bullies? Wouldn't it be great to pull it out at the root instead of demonizing every new generation of troubled kids that comes along?

I live in Philadelphia and I work with inner city kids in the summers. Bullying goes far beyond the definition of that word in these schools. Kids get picked on by getting beat up in an alley as a common occurance.

The program I work for emphasizes the fact that as educators you NEED to understand the child before taking disciplinary action. They will boot your ass out on the street if you take the lazy way out and yell a bully into submission. I am vocally against bullying every single day at that place, but if we just yelled at bullies all day, we'd make the problem worse.

What we do instead is take childred who are acting out aside, and we ask them what's going on. How was your morning? Did you remember to eat breakfast? Usually, we hear some pretty crazy shit about their parents beating them that morning. That sort of life makes a kid act out, and the better solution is to improve their life instead of making it more miserable.

So with this positive approach, what happens at the end of every year like clockwork? 99% of the kids begin to get along, and in our final theater performance, you'll probably see up on that stage dressed as a duck, quacking in front of his entire school, and having fun with his peers like he should.

knock that bully the f*ck out

Wow, it's so cool to be a cynical asshole.

I hope they nail this one.

Those of you who want to throw the label "bully" on people who bully someone at some point, remember that you're going to be labeling Autistic kids at a 2.5x higher rate than non-spectrum kids.

Children with autism are also more likely to bully others: About 20% of kids with autism bullied (vs. only 8% of neurotypical children). According to the report, many of these kids may actually be both bully and victim, which is somewhat more common in children with developmental or emotional problems.

The developer in the video says people fit in three categories:
1 - Those who bully.
2 - Those who are bullied.
3 - Those who watch.

That is ridiculous. Virtually everyone is all 3 at different times. Everyone who holds up an "I was bullied" sign should be required to write ", and I also bullied others" after it. A single incident or a single series of specific incidents doesn't define people.

Every moment I watched of the Papo y Yo quick-look did it no favors. It did not look enjoyable at all.

I guess it's really tough to tackle issues without getting hamfisted, but I'd really like to see someone get there.

I think the closest I've seen was the buddhist message of Journey.

I love that people have this idea that any sort of social commentary within a video game makes it the most popular and successful thing in the world. "These indie games are just exploiting issues to turn a profit." "Patrick is only writing these articles because they're inflammatory and getting page hits," like he wouldn't be way more successful if he just incessantly uploaded new Battlefield trailers.

People are acting like "Shoot the Ethnicities Your Dad is Afraid of 4" is somehow not immeasurably successful right now and that every single indie developer isn't struggling.