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Wolfenstein: The New Order Introduces You to Frau Engel

This train scene was one of the better parts of the demo I got to play a few weeks back.

Mar. 20 2014

Posted by: Alex

In This Episode:

Wolfenstein: The New Order

104 Comments

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fisk0

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fisk0  Moderator

@jasius said:

This would be a great trailer for a game that everyone was behind and cared about, as far as reactions go, this seems like a game nobody asked for and nobody really wants, this trailer should have been action packed.

They have already shown 2 action packed trailers prior to this.

And judging by reactions to them, people are looking forward to the game too.

Yeah, honestly, a Wolfenstein game by the guys behind The Darkness and the Riddick games, and one that seems to avoid some of the bullshit of post-Halo FPSes, such as the two weapon limit and regenerating health, I'm looking forward to it. Last year's Rise of the Triad was great, and this seems to be more of that with an actual budget.

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deactivated-62a216db3532b

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Cant wait

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KillEm_Dafoe

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Edited By KillEm_Dafoe

That was awesome. I'm seriously really excited for this, perhaps unreasonably so. But I vastly prefer shooters of this style to the more modern conventions, and they simply don't make games like this too often anymore. This is definitely one of my most anticipated games of the year.

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deactivated-63b0572095437

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Looks like fun. I'm not expecting anything more than running around shooting Nazis. It looks like they're trying to be interesting with the story, so that's a bonus. All I want from Wolfenstein is for the shooting to feel good. I'll be shocked and pleased if there's more interesting dialogue like this, but it's not why I'm here.

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Nethlem

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Edited By Nethlem
@acidbrandon18 said:

Love how they stick to the German voice acting. I have high hopes for this game.

And it's actually pretty well delivered, even the soldier at the door says his line pretty convincing. It's kind of sad that the animation is not up to the job, the mouth is not really well synced/animated to the speech.

@mikemcn said:

+10 respect for actual swastika usage. Not being scared of a symbol that should be recognized for it's evil history rather than forgotten is appreciated. (I'm looking at you Captain America movie.)

Has nothing to do with "being scared", the issue being that showing the swastika, outside of educational or historical context, is banned in Germany, but Germany is a pretty big market for all things digital/entertainment. Videogames get around this by simply replacing the swastika texture with something else in the German version.

But movies, especially those that are not set in a proper historical context like Captain America, run into a lot more issues when they would have to replace all the actual swastika symbols with something different. They can't just replace a texture, they would need to edit large parts of the movie with heavy CGI, that's pretty expensive and a lot of work. So instead they just use "made up swastika".

There is something that's worse than "forgetting" an evil, it's belittling an evil by putting it in a plain wrong context and thus equaling it with "fantasy evil" like some super villains out of comics..

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blacklab

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Glad to see there is at least a little space between the shooty bits.

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Orysef

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Wolfenstein is in a class of one's own.

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Dagbiker

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@meatsim said:

I like how they build new passenger train cars just so their giant robots can walk through them.

Nazis are always remembered for being forethoughtfull and all inclusive. So it wouldn't surprise me.

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Sunjammer

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Edited By Sunjammer

So.. Like...

Man. Where to start.

Ok, straight up. I have a lot of respect for the team behind this game. I think the production looks great. I think the game will probably be very enjoyable.

But my granddad was recruited as a 17 year old from his small town, when the Nazis invaded Norway, essentially indoctrinated, and he fought in *Stalingrad* for Germany as a result, and he came back so fucked I struggle to explain how that impacted *my* dad, his family, and how that pans out.

I know the Nazis are a hilariously fun villain to put in a game, and to make as utterly vile and disgusting as possible for shock value, and how we oh so love to shoot at third reich soldiers. But when it's taken to this level of caricature, it really just bugs me how far we've gone down this path.

When my granddad died, a lot of his past was revealed to me, and I started digging up books about similar stories, including Guy Sajer's "Forgotten Soldier". I think it's important to know that Nazis, or rather third reich soldiers, were normal people, like you or me, that due to a set of circumstances did things that we now justfully revile them for. The third reich is a tragedy of the failings of modern society that I think honestly deserves a more thoughtful treatment than fuck yeah, kill the nazis.

I dunno.. I guess all I really feel is that this kind of game kind of boils down to propaganda, and a sort of harmful distortion of what actually transpired. If kids grow up to think this kind of cartoon villainy is what Nazi Germany was like, I feel like a real disservice is being done to the thousands of thousands of soldiers fighting for Germany that harbored few if any of those ideals beyond misguided nationalism, or even how those ideals can be insidiously spread through otherwise "benign" philosophy, especially to the young. It's almost ironic: A game about fighting the evil propaganda-driven empire, only the game is itself propaganda about that empire.

Maybe it's time we started making up metaphorical evil empires to fight against, rather than go for the "real deal". Oh wait, we have. All the time. Just not in Wolfenstein games.

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MikeJFlick

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@sunjammer said:

So.. Like...

Man. Where to start.

My family is German, my grand parents were killed by the Nazi's for being dissidents to the rise of fascism in Germany, fuck them and screw the revisionists that say otherwise.

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csl316

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Man, this reminds me of the opening of Inglourious Basterds

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shatted

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Still really digging this game's aesthetic, and I give them a great deal of credit for choosing German with subtitles instead of accented English.

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Coreus

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Edited By Coreus

Definitely liking those face gestures. It's got sort of a "No One Lives Forever" and Tarantino vibe to it. This could be interesting!

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@sunjammer said:

So.. Like...

Man. Where to start.

My family is German, my grand parents were killed by the Nazi's for being dissidents to the rise of fascism in Germany, fuck them and screw the revisionists that say otherwise.

you don't have to be a revisionist to see the guy has a point. a well thought-out post like his doesn't deserve your oneliner treatment.

but yeah, caricaturizing german WW2 soldiers to the point where they stop looking human and just evil monsters can potentially be dangerous. it neglects the fact that it were people like you and me who did this and makes us less aware of the idea that it could happen again. this has been going on for decades simply because it's so hard to grasp that it was man who was responsible for ww2's atrocities... literally demonizing the nazi soldiers is just that much easier to deal with, mentally.

that said, I still think there's a place for games like this and movies like Inglourious Basterds... I'll probably enjoy the former as much as the latter. God help us if these popular media are the only education on the subject of WW2 people are gonna get, though.

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@zombieslayingin3d: How on earth do you get out of this trailer that this is Bioshock Infinite with a bad Wolfenstein paint job?

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Edited By Tennmuerti
@sunjammer said:
Maybe it's time we started making up metaphorical evil empires to fight against, rather than go for the "real deal". Oh wait, we have. All the time. Just not in Wolfenstein games.

And a thousand other games that use Nazi's as the big bads you have to fight. Or Soviets.

You are also seeing a representation of a single character in a game that might well have German WW2 soldiers like you describe them. Wait the trailer even has that already, the soldier who remarks he doesn't know when asked the nasty question, to me seems like he wants no part of what the woman is doing and is just a normal soldier.

Secondly it's a purposefully exaggerated take on the Nazi germany, they take over the world, they have giant mechs and robot dogs, mad scientists, etc It's not trying in any way shape or form represent or convey what actually transpired, it's pure exaggerated in your face fiction. Anyone looking at this as any sort of accurate portrayal of the time seems frankly insane. Not everything has to be a historically accurate representation of events/times/people. Hell not even a lot of serious historical works that do attempt to be strictly representative like book accounts or documentaries manage to achieve or eve n try to do what you are asking. Certainly not a crazy "what if" scenario fantasy.

Finally and this is getting back to the first sentence. Why exactly is something pretty tame like this raisin an eyebrow and outpouring like this from you, now. There are literally thousands of fictional works that simplify, distil and play on the idea of Nazi being the ultimate villains, games movies books comics, we have a CoD game every other year that has Nazi zombies and had one every other year that made Russians into cartoon villains; we have a good looking well build American dressed in a clown outfit taking down a skull faced Nazi in super popular blockbuster, etc examples are countless. Frankly movies constantly making Russians into cartoon bad guys is even more prevalent as an example, they don't even hide them behind a political party like Nazis. And these examples are taking a far more blase approach to the subject with even less care and subtlety to real events.

I am not saying there isn't a place to treat these topics 100% seriously and try to be all inclusive, impartial and encompassing. There absolutely is. But not every place has to be it (nor trying to be).

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Edited By rjaylee

I had literally seen nothing of this game up until now, and holy shit, colour me impressed. Totally hype get.

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Hawkerace

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oh mein got

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President_Barackbar

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Mein Leben!

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OneManX

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@clush said:

@mikejflick said:

@sunjammer said:

So.. Like...

Man. Where to start.

My family is German, my grand parents were killed by the Nazi's for being dissidents to the rise of fascism in Germany, fuck them and screw the revisionists that say otherwise.

you don't have to be a revisionist to see the guy has a point. a well thought-out post like his doesn't deserve your oneliner treatment.

but yeah, caricaturizing german WW2 soldiers to the point where they stop looking human and just evil monsters can potentially be dangerous. it neglects the fact that it were people like you and me who did this and makes us less aware of the idea that it could happen again. this has been going on for decades simply because it's so hard to grasp that it was man who was responsible for ww2's atrocities... literally demonizing the nazi soldiers is just that much easier to deal with, mentally.

that said, I still think there's a place for games like this and movies like Inglourious Basterds... I'll probably enjoy the former as much as the latter. God help us if these popular media are the only education on the subject of WW2 people are gonna get, though.

But... this game isn't trying to be realistic... at all?

This game is teaching no one anything. It's trying to be a fun shoot 'em up, with big explosions, gore and over-exaggerated hero and villains.

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DragonNinja789

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What the..? Am I the only one concerned about how they got that mech on the train?

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Edited By xtafxfoulfellow
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I was into it.

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Edited By Sooty

@zombieslayingin3d said:

Sigh..., so it's just Bioshock infinite with a poorly thought out Wolfenstein paint job?

Well considering BioShock Infinite was just a standard first person shooter that happened to have a cool intro, with subpar corridor shooter gameplay, they have a lot they can easily improve on.

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Brought to you by Wes Andersen?

I actually really enjoyed that new Wolfstein a few years ago.

And this looks really cool.

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RVonE

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@amyggen said:

@zombieslayingin3d: How on earth do you get out of this trailer that this is Bioshock Infinite with a bad Wolfenstein paint job?

Indeed.

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So, what a-hole is going to have on a leather jacket with rolled up sleeves, red shirt with rolled up sleeves and a thermal shirt? Come on Dude, make up your mind. Although, the fingerless biker gloves are a nice touch.

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@tennmuerti: The problem with all this, it's painting a way too black&white picture, there are no subtleties, no moral dilemma, the only way these conflicts get portrayed are by the same, and tired, "Good vs Evil" themes.

Now, there is nothing wrong with having some of that. The issue with the media of Videogames being that they only have this kind of characterization in them. And as long as that agenda dominates, we shouldn't be surprised that the Videogames are still perceived as an "immature media".

I'm really looking forward to the day, when a past war gets depicted in a really serious and down to earth way, in a Videogame. Let the player play both sides of the conflict, let him die, show him that "war" isn't an issue if "Good vs Evil". But rather show him what real war means: People don't want it, people usually get drawn into it without much choice of their own. That's something Videogames as a media could do so much better, compared to any other media, but only very few people are actually trying.

@sunjammer: That's the stuff I'm talking about! It's shocking how simple some people paint that whole period back then, when for the people living in that time it hasn't been anything but "simple". I wouldn't be surprised if all the "Black&White" painting in different media ain't also in part responsible for that.

Heck there are tons of documentaries about the Nazis building "UFO's" or "Preaching the Occult", yet barely anybody knows about the heavy indoctrination, the German youth had go trough in education. The German kids growing up in that period, had to solve math text problems on the cost of caring for a relative with a hereditary defect, compared to the cost of simply killing them. Yes, that's how messed up it had been back then and everybody growing up in such a setting, is bound to be messed up in some way without having had much choice about it.

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Frumpa

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@jasius: Speak for yourself mate - love RTCW and am super excited for this.

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Edited By Herak

@meatsim said:

I like how they build new passenger train cars just so their giant robots can walk through them.

That was actually the plan. After winning the war the Nazis planed to build a a huge broad guage rail network all over main-land Europe The Breitspurbahn. If they have done their research there is likely an upstairs part of that carriage as well (more room for Nazi mechs).

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Tennmuerti

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Edited By Tennmuerti

@nethlem: And yet again everything I wrote above still applies. Nothing of what you have said brought any new info to the table. I should stop here, but I'll reiterate.

This isn't just about video games, it's present in every medium, in droves. And regardless of medium not everything is trying to be a historical text, nor can it be, nor does it need to be, especially when it's clearly not trying to be.

The criticism of simplifying issues historical or current events to black/white extremes is in 99.99% of every piece of info we consume daily. This applies to even when people are trying to be serious and thoughtful about a topic. Just look at the current Ukraine situation. Demanding a super deep representation of a (quite complex) subject from a fictional, exaggerated, what if scenario in a bombastic over the top shooter, like - dudewhat? Not even oscar winning movies about WW2 give you an impartial look that you won't be able to apply the argument "well it's too black and white" at. Not even many proper documentaries.

If you are looking for a serious in depth representation of WW2 in a video game that's totally fine, keep waiting, but that's not this particular games fault to not cater to your very specific need. The big military robot that walked by should have been clue number one.

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@mnzy@mikemcn said:

Funny twist: the actual German version's voice cast is worse than the English one.

Yeah, after you wrote that I watched the German version of this and the voice actress for Engel is a different lady and both her and her boy toy have vastly different lines and all swastika's and other SS symbols are replaced by Wolfenstein logos.

I guess these changes have been made to adhere to the German Nazi symbolism censorship requirement. Interesting to know that they had to pretty much record 2 different german voiceover editions.

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Edited By kippers

I'm cautiously optimistic. This looks good, the other trailers have looked fun. I want it to be good. I'll wait for reviews before I make a judgement.

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That's some happy music for having been crushed by a mech foot.

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This passes my 'do you get to shoot nazis?' game purchasing test.

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Edited By Sunjammer

@tennmuerti: I have always liked the stuff you write, but in this case, falling back on "allow it this once" is one of your weakest arguments.

The idea that WW2 is free reign hunting, and we should just expect it to be caricatured and wringed out for any and all comedic or horrific purpose is defeatist, at the very least.

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Edited By Tennmuerti

@sunjammer: That's reductive to the point of not even being my argument, so not even going to address that, sorry.

As far as defeatism goes, it's nothing of the sort. Nor do I expect it do be caricatured all the time, I've already said as much.

I've always been of a mind that if someone wants to argue with me I will extend them the courtesy of reading and replying to their points in detail and remaining open to be convinced otherwise. But I expect the same in return. If my arguments start getting twisted or ignored, I can only point it out once or twice before there simply stops being a point to continuing and spending even more time and thought on it then I've already put in, it only seems logical.

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Really nice.

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DedBeet

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Edited By DedBeet

Thought that was Drew sitting there on the left at first, nope just a Nazi.

Common mistake.

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grilledcheez

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Edited By grilledcheez

This looks dope

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deactivated-64be7a3eaf1a0

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Thought that was Drew sitting there on the left at first, nope just a Nazi.

Can't be Drew that guy wasn't sitting up straight in his seat.

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Loved the dialogue in this short trailer. I will probably give this game a try....still debating between this or watch dogs since they both are releasing in just about the same timeframe.

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Edited By Sunjammer

@tennmuerti: I did read your post before responding to it, so either I'm just a complete idiot (possible) or your argument was lost on me at the time. I'll rephrase.

Pointing out the multitude of transgression in the past as an excuse for transgression in the present ("If it didn't bother me before, why now?") is pretty easy to respond to: It's simply an indication that the exercise is getting painfully old, finally reaching its threshold. Again, this isn't some random Thing That Caught My Eye, it's a reaction to how I feel *personally* given my family's history. That cartoon Russians or other perversions of history in the name of entertainment also exist is completely besides the point.

As for "look how vividly unrealistic it is, nobody could take this seriously", I'm going to just toss in that you could have wildly unrealistic cartoon rape as well and I'd still think it was fucking atrocious, and a bad way to handle a pretty complex topic. Realistic or not, it's a reflection with reflections.

But in the end, unrealistic or not, cartoon Nazis (and parallel caricatures), in my opinion, drive a divide between what they *did* and what they actually *were* that no matter how you turn it compounds a fairly harmful bit of distortion either way: They're not bulbous-headed cartoon-german-accented aryans with eyepatches and weird sado-masochistic uniforms. They're *us*. Kids killing kids, driven ahead by outdatedly-principled old men, as is typical in war. And this is why right wingers making it to government remain scary: If we had a better perspective on just how little it really took to make regular people into monsters, maybe we'd collectively handle those situations better, rather than turning it into this battle of extremes that we tend towards?

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Tennmuerti

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Edited By Tennmuerti

@sunjammer: Thanks for taking the time to reply fully.

But it's not some kind of transgression. It's not some inherently bad thing. Not everything needs to be serious and true to life/history all the time. There is room in life, in all things in life, in all mediums, for comedy, for parody, for caricature, for exaggeration, for fantasy. Or do you only watch documentaries ever, read only scientific journals. I am pretty sure as a person who plays video games you consume quite a lot of entertainment that does not try to be taken as some kind of absolute truth, serious statement or deep discussion on a topic.

Sure I get it that it boiled over a threshold for you, that's understandable. However in that case it's a completely personal issue rather then an issue with this particular game. It just happened to be a target at the time. And that's not a good excuse to target it, at all.

I am not suggesting kind of full absolution from fault because it's unrealistic. That's not the point. The point is that you are asking for quite a lot of accuracy and a lot of depth from something that isn't attempting to be such. A dissertation on the topic of social pressures of the Nazi party is not the aim of this piece of entertainment. It's like going to a coffee bean shop, and then arguing that because they don't sell tea they are somehow at fault. You don't watch an action movie and then complain how it was not a deep emotional experience. You don't watch a documentary and then complain how it wasn't funny. You don't play an alternate history video game with Nazi robots and criticize it for not being an in depth true to history look at societal factors. That's the point.

I have also pointed out in my first reply that this video was a look at one particular character. It's wasn't some statement about how all of Germans were at the time for you to be treating it as such. There is just a simple soldier in it as well. In previous trailers they have shown conquering Germans making merry and kissing women at a victory parade. Showing a specific sadistic person is not equivalent to painting everyone with the same brush. In continuation of that argument, you would surely not deny that actions and attitudes similar to that shown in this trailer did in fact occur, or did the Nazi's not attempt ethnic cleanses and did not target people depending on their views or looks?

To tie in what I said at the start and what I said in the end. Misrepresentation of events can indeed be a bad thing if taken to a point. But it's not an absolute, just because something is not representative of what you perceive as truth does not make it at fault, just because it's a caricature of a more serious thing does not make it a bad thing, inherently. It only can be such potentially. For example if they claimed every German of the era was a sadist piece of shit, I would be right behind you, saying "WTF!"; or if they were attempting to show the opposite and oh no they were all just misguided and under social pressure so we shouldn't be so hard on them for gassing innocent people. It's degrees. Where that point of transgression lies depends on a lot of things. Such as: is this aiming to be representative of real events, is it showing something that is far from truth, how far is it, how is it asking to be perceived, how will people who consume it digest the information it presents into their existing knowledge on the topic, if at all, what's it's scope, what's it's aim, how is it shown. You can't just equate it to depiction of rape and call it a day, it doesn't work like that, that's a fallacy. Considering all these factors it's not even remotely in the "tame transgression" camp, it doesn't even show something that's blatantly untrue, in a fictional setting, aimed to entertain. There are far more serious examples that come out every week, in books, movies, games, press, news that would be a better focus of criticism and energy to scrutinize; with more potential benefit and where you would have a stronger argument to make.