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    Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Retribution

    Game » consists of 3 releases. Released Mar 01, 2011

    Ten years after the events of Chaos Rising, sub-sector Aurelia is still engulfed in all out war. In this third installment of Dawn of War II, you decide the victor!

    DoWII Retribution Beta Impressions

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    Geno

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    #1  Edited By Geno

    Post beta impressions in here if you like. I'll go first:  
     
    - Imperial Guard are overall interesting and nicely designed. Like in DoW1, they're quite squishy, but this seems more of a penalty in DoW2 since it's faster paced. The good news is that their reinforce is pretty much the cheapest in the game, and the Catachan devils are insanely good.  

    - Not so sure about the tanks later in the game though. A lot of people are saying Manticore is imba but I'm not really seeing it; its ability is as easy to dodge as any grenade and the unit itself goes down quickly to any AV.   

    - Eldar Autarch is an interesting unit, it's come-into-play ability acts like 5 plasma grenades which can be devastating if your opponent is caught unawares. The unit itself does little damage and doesn't really noticeably buff surrounding units, however it's insanely fast. Its default run speed seems to be that of banshees with fleet of foot, and the Autarch itself has fleet of foot. She can also jump over barriers. Combine that with Warlock's speed up global and she can cross an entire map at almost teleport speed, good for capping and disruption. You can also re-use her CIP ability for reduced cost. Overall, interesting and fairly effective unit, and looks spiffy leading a crowd of banshees, just not much good at actual hand to hand fighting vs. stronger units.   
     
    Random Autarch Pics: 
      



      
          
     
    - The Commisar (sp?) is my favorite IG commander so far, but like the rest of IG he's extremely squishy so might not see that much action early in the game. Later in the game however he can practically 3 hit any other commander with his power fist, and he also has a very effective self-healing wargear.  
     
    - The new map is pretty crazy. Extremely, extremely claustrophobic, all of the VPs, power nodes and requisition points are all literally bunched together. 
     
    - Change in SM Force Commander model = ew. 
     
    - All the voices have been reworked. About on par with what it was previously in my opinion.

    - Tyranid's new T3 unit seems kind of useless to me, doesn't do much that the Carnifex doesn't already do.    

    - Ran into a sound glitch where the in-game sound is much quieter than in the menu/lobby. No fix found yet.     

    - UI change looks nice, but seems to lag a little (i.e. HP bar changes a full second after getting hit rather than immediately).  
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    Seedofpower

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    #2  Edited By Seedofpower

    Geno I want to play you 1v1.

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    mazik765

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    #3  Edited By mazik765

    Looks good. Unfortunately the DoW2 games run extremely slow on my computer, so I probably won't be able to see this myself until I either get a new comp or OnLive gets this game :(

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    Geno

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    #4  Edited By Geno

    Also wanted to add that the graphics and sound quality seem to have decreased, but many people offer the possibility that it is only for the beta to keep file size small (and to leave some surprises for the main game). 

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    Tennmuerti

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    #5  Edited By Tennmuerti

    I actually preordered yesterday and was about to download the demo myself but then realised it's only MP :(
    DoW2 multiplayer just didn't hook me for some reason the way DoW1 did.

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    DocHaus

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    #6  Edited By DocHaus

    FC Vanilla Ice is the Blood Ravens' canonical traitor. Truth.

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    KaosAngel

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    #7  Edited By KaosAngel

    How's Last Stand?

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    Fallen189

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    #8  Edited By Fallen189
    @KaosAngel said:
    " How's Last Stand? "
    It's just more of the same good stuff.
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    KaosAngel

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    #9  Edited By KaosAngel
    @Fallen189 said:
    " @KaosAngel said:
    " How's Last Stand? "
    It's just more of the same good stuff. "
    ...my dude carries over or I gotta start new?
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    DocHaus

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    #10  Edited By DocHaus
    @KaosAngel: 
    There's supposed to be an option that will let you transfer over your MP stats (including Last Stand) from DoW2 vanilla and CR the first time you log in to Retribution. If it doesn't show, then try playing one round in the previous version and then try again.
     
    Also, the beta doesn't have Last Stand, so I don't know, though I hear the IG hero is the Lord General.
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    KaosAngel

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    #11  Edited By KaosAngel
    @DocHaus: I dunno if I'd mind re-doing it or not.  I only hit cap with the Soldier, so I'd still have more classes to play.  All I play is Last Stand as online DOW2 is kinda shit due to already having SC2.  >.> 
     
    No offense to DOW2 fans.  
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    Fallen189

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    #12  Edited By Fallen189
    @KaosAngel said:

    " @Fallen189 said:

    " @KaosAngel said:
    " How's Last Stand? "
    It's just more of the same good stuff. "
    ...my dude carries over or I gotta start new? "
    I don't think they've announced that. I would ASSUME that because of the client change between GFWL/Steamworks or however it works, it won't, but best to keep your save just incase 
     
    "  This will make the game entirely stand-alone with all the races included (unlike Chaos Rising which required the original Dawn Of War II for the original four races in Multiplayer) along with no carry over of characters from the original two campaigns. " 
     
    http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?188243-Dawn-of-War-2-Chaos-Rising-and-Retribution-FAQ  
     
    Don't count on it 
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    neoepoch

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    #13  Edited By neoepoch
    @Geno said:
    "  - Change in SM Force Commander model = ew.    "
    Yeah, what is up with that?
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    KaosAngel

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    #14  Edited By KaosAngel
    @Fallen189:  I guess I'm re-leveling.  No complaints, gives me reasons to play I guess.  It's not a day-one-buy, so I'll pick it up for the cheap during the holiday season.
     
    ...why do you have a Casshern avatar and not a Red Mage?
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    Fallen189

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    #15  Edited By Fallen189
    @KaosAngel said:
    " @Fallen189:  I guess I'm re-leveling.  No complaints, gives me reasons to play I guess.  It's not a day-one-buy, so I'll pick it up for the cheap during the holiday season. ...why do you have a Casshern avatar and not a Red Mage? "
    Because he's neo human and a baller?
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    DocHaus

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    #16  Edited By DocHaus
    @KaosAngel said:
    " @DocHaus: I dunno if I'd mind re-doing it or not.  I only hit cap with the Soldier, so I'd still have more classes to play.  All I play is Last Stand as online DOW2 is kinda shit due to already having SC2.  >.>  No offense to DOW2 fans.   "
    Have fun obsessively clicking your mouse in hopes that your thousands of APM will bring victory before the might of an oncoming bioball steamrolls through your base.
     
    See? I can overgeneralize too!
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    Vorbis

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    #17  Edited By Vorbis

    Last Stand characters should carry over, they're adding at least 1 new map and the Imperial Guard Lord General to the mix. Not heard anything else about it. 
     
    The new look for the SM commander is due to him being removed from the campaigns.

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    Seedofpower

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    #18  Edited By Seedofpower
    @Fallen189 said:
    " @KaosAngel said:

    " @Fallen189 said:

    " @KaosAngel said:
    " How's Last Stand? "
    It's just more of the same good stuff. "
    ...my dude carries over or I gotta start new? "
    I don't think they've announced that. I would ASSUME that because of the client change between GFWL/Steamworks or however it works, it won't, but best to keep your save just incase 
     
    "  This will make the game entirely stand-alone with all the races included (unlike Chaos Rising which required the original Dawn Of War II for the original four races in Multiplayer) along with no carry over of characters from the original two campaigns. " 
     
    http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?188243-Dawn-of-War-2-Chaos-Rising-and-Retribution-FAQ   Don't count on it  "
    Yes everything cares over and no the last stand is not in the beta.
     
    You don't have to re-level anything, The game requests if you want to care over the information from the other games. Just hit yes and everything will be fine. If you don't know that all your info is in the cloud, just install dow2 and log on for like a sec and it will update.
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    ekajarmstro

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    #19  Edited By ekajarmstro

    Can anyone tell me how to have fun playing the beta? When I finally get into a ladder game I immediately get stomped before I even know what happens. If I just try playing against AI I capture a bunch of points and the AI suicides itself into me and it's not fun at all.

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    KaosAngel

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    #20  Edited By KaosAngel
    @EkajArmstro: I'm not gonna lie, but when I tried DOW2 proper online I hated it.  It's just one of those things that you need to like innately.  
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    Seedofpower

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    #21  Edited By Seedofpower
    @EkajArmstro:  How about playing a custom game with real people or maybe ask for advice in the chat? It's a RTS so don't expect an easy learning curve.
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    leburgan

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    #22  Edited By leburgan
    @EkajArmstro:  You need to learn a bit how to play. I would say watch some vods, but I don't know if that's the best idea. I may make a little tutorial if I get a chance this weekend.
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    MuttersomeTaxicab

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    @Geno: Nice screencaps. I finally snagged a beta code of this yesterday evening. This beta definitely played merry havoc with THQ's main site as well as the DoW 2 community site. Frustrating, but I'm glad there's widespread interest, though. 
     
    Agreed on the Catchan Devils. I really hope those cats are left alone in the patching. 
     
    And the commissar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrCY7dgaqs 
     
    I think that's all that needs to be said.  
     
    I played a game as Chaos to try out the Noise Marines. Was gutted long before I could even get them into play, so I set up a compstomp to nurse my mewling ego and felt a lot better. Their upgrade significantly changes the unit, too. Either way, I can see some interesting play styles coming from those guys.
     
    @EkajArmstro
    said:

    "Can anyone tell me how to have fun playing the beta? When I finally get into a ladder game I immediately get stomped before I even know what happens. If I just try playing against AI I capture a bunch of points and the AI suicides itself into me and it's not fun at all. "


    I know the feeling. I love RTS games on a whole, but whenever I get into multiplayer I lose horribly. I mean, I'm getting better at Starcraft 2, but that's through constant practise and repetition and muscle memory - very few of those skills actually apply to DoW 2. 
     
    However, when I lose in Starcraft 2 and watch the replays, I mostly have the response of "how in the fuck am I supposed to be able to do that shit?" rather than any sense of learning something. For me, at least, in DoW II, the units themselves all feel powerful, even as they're being killed off. I mean, the weakest unit for Chaos (the Heretics), turns into absolute MONSTERS when they upgrade to grenade launchers (much to the annoyance of most of the DoW II community, I gather.) So when I lose in DoW II, I can go back and see constantly missed opportunities. If I'd hit this power here, that would've slapped this squad hard and they'd have retreated, etc. etc. I guess, at least for me, the interface for DoW II makes micromanagement a lot easier. 
     
    Right. You were asking for a suggestion on how to have fun. I only really have two options I can think of: 
     
    1. When Chaos Rising first dropped, the community realized that the game would be dead in the water if a bunch of newbs showed up and were eaten for breakfast by the pseudo-pros. So they started a community to help people get better at the multiplayer, here: http://rts-sanctuary.com/index.php?portal=DOW2&showforum=296 
      
    There's replays with commentary and basic strategies, etc. etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they already have a subforum dedicated to the beta. 
     
    2. Thankfully, the beta isn't saddled with GFWL, so if anybody on your Steam list is entered into the beta (that number should increase on Monday, since anybody who owns a DoW II product on Steam will be automatically invited on the 7thish)  
     
    In my experience, at least, playing with friends is usually more fun in any game, but very specifically in RTSes, since you don't feel like you were just rolled over by someone that was more machine than human.
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    Nentisys

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    #24  Edited By Nentisys

    I cant fucking wait for this to come out.

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    endless_void

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    #25  Edited By endless_void

    CoH is still superior imo in terms of gameplay.

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    ekajarmstro

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    #26  Edited By ekajarmstro
    @MuttersomeTaxicab: Thanks for the link! I've been looking for something like that but I couldn't find anything.
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    MuttersomeTaxicab

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    @EkajArmstro said:

    " @MuttersomeTaxicab: Thanks for the link! I've been looking for something like that but I couldn't find anything. "


    My pleasure. Also, other decent advice would be to try playing on team games. 2v2 or ffa games seem to be a little more forgiving for newcomers (just as they are in SC2.) 
     
    If you're hard-up for finding decent human beings to play with/against, feel free to add me on steam: Mr_Hands 
     
    Though, in my experience, there isn't a whole lot of shit talking in the DoW II community. Last night I was utterly taken apart, but there was no "u suck n00b" or after-game joshing. I'm sure it's out there in some capacity, but most players are pretty normal human beings.
     

    Here's a couple other links I've been poring over this morning (though they're culled from the L2P DoW II site): 
     
    Basic Strategy: 
    http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?218492-Basic-Tactical-Primer-Essential-Skills-Practices-and-Preparation-for-surviving-MP 
     
    A "Guide to Self-Improvement" (among other links): 
    http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=616482  
     
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    Vorbis

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    Geno

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    #29  Edited By Geno

    I'm more or less of the opinion that Catachans are completely broken. Grenade ability KDs and damages entire other team, nids are essentially screwed vs. them. Ranged DPS is equal to or greater then Warp Spiders' which is insane considering they're T1. Their melee damage puts them on par with shees, they can go head to head with fully upgraded ASM squads. At least one of these things needs to fixed. 

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    leburgan

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    #30  Edited By leburgan
    @Geno: Holy shit do I agree. That plus the Inquisitors fucking amazing nuke destroyed me today.
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    Geno

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    #31  Edited By Geno

    Just won about a dozen 3v3's in a row. I change my mind about Swarm Lord. He's actually the best unit in the game. Essentially grants invincibility (since you can reinforce, that late in the game resources aren't an issue) and Fleet of Foot to all of your units. The SL itself is pretty much invincible as well due to its heal ability, and when you have AG warriors around there's nothing stopping it. It might be a little too good, but as a nid player I'm enjoying while I can :).

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    Afroman269

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    #32  Edited By Afroman269
    @Tennmuerti: You can do private skirmish matches.
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    mosdef

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    #33  Edited By mosdef
    @Geno:  What about Last Stand?  That's my fav part of DOW2.
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    Geno

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    #34  Edited By Geno
    @mosdef: LS isn't in the beta. 
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    Geno

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    #35  Edited By Geno

    I'm not getting why people on the official forums are saying Sentinel needs a buff, that thing is imba as it is. It out-kites everything in the game and also does moderate damage, all for the cost of 350 req at T1. As it is, it's almost impossible to kill until T2, and up till that point it's basically free to go around decapping your points and disrupting your team with stomp. 

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    The_Drizzle

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    #36  Edited By The_Drizzle

    Anyone up for some Arranged Teams? I play Ork, i tried imperial guard but got rocked, why are they so easily owned?

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    Geno

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    #37  Edited By Geno
    @The_Drizzle: IG is all about the micro. Catachans are currently owning everything right now.
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    The_Drizzle

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    #38  Edited By The_Drizzle

    ah its seems early game against ork especially i cant even get passed tier 1, and the chick hero i sucked with

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    Geno

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    #39  Edited By Geno
    @The_Drizzle: The catachans are shotgun scouts on steroids, use them as such. Female hero has, I forgot what it was called but this AoE light ray that damages and debuffs, highly effective against orcs. Best IG hero is probably the Comissar though. 
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    The_Drizzle

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    #40  Edited By The_Drizzle
    @Geno said:
    " @The_Drizzle: The catachans are shotgun scouts on steroids, use them as such. Female hero has, I forgot what it was called but this AoE light ray that damages and debuffs, highly effective against orcs. Best IG hero is probably the Comissar though.  "
    Would you be up for some 2v2?
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    Geno

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    #41  Edited By Geno
    @The_Drizzle: I'd be glad to but I'm kind of busy as of late, sorry.  
     
    Preview of 3.7 Patch is out. TL;DR: Tyranids are now useless. 
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    The_Drizzle

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    #42  Edited By The_Drizzle
    @Geno said:

    " @The_Drizzle: I'd be glad to but I'm kind of busy as of late, sorry.  
     
    Preview of 3.7 Patch is out. TL;DR: Tyranids are now useless.  "

    Geno how the fuck do you counter the IG's artillery tank guns, those things drop "Rok" like damage on my shit and just obliterated them     
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    DocHaus

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    #43  Edited By DocHaus
    @The_Drizzle:  If you're talking about the Manticore, then it's actually quite simple: find it and kill it first. If that isn't possible, then try not blobbing your units up in one spot where the IG commander can find you. The Manticore has no regular attack and its armor and HP are light enough that even some infantry can take it down given enough effort.
     
    @Geno:
    How are 'nids useless now? I'm not really a 'nid player, but all I see is that it nerfs the Swarmlord and termagants a little. And if you reached the point in a match where you can bring out a Swarmlord it won't really matter. Hell, barbed strangler got a buff, and it already was quite useful in tier 1 fights. 
    -----------------------
     
    Also, general strategy while I'm here for everyone who chooses to play in this beta and/or the full game: please please PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE EMPEROR remember to cap the power nodes closest to your base. And once you have capped them, build on them. Use what requisition you have to continue building them until they are full or they are filled by others on your team. You will generate req easily and regain your investment in power provided you aren't playing like complete shit. 
     
    Sure, you can buy a flamer or big shoota for your troops as the situation demands it, but concentrate on take the power nodes, keeping your own, and then destroying the enemy's own power generators to make them waste time and effort rebuilding their dead forces before they can even think of upgrading. The more you do this, the easier you can move to tier 2 and grab a vehicle or two to steamroll over everything they throw at you while the enemy struggles with its tier 1 technology and units. I have played in too many games where they think that simply capturing a power node is enough only to have an enemy sentinel decap it before anything can be done.
     
    Also, don't be afraid to retreat if the odds are against you. There's no shame in running away if you are simply outmatched. The fewer squads you have to reinforce, the more money you save. And it's always, ALWAYS better to reinforce single soldiers than having to buy entirely new squads to replace them.
     
    [This PSA was brought to you by some guy on the internet sick and tired of playing with pubbies online.]
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    phrosnite

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    #44  Edited By phrosnite

    With patch 3.7 stats will be reset :)

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    The_Drizzle

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    #45  Edited By The_Drizzle
    @DocHaus said:
    " @The_Drizzle:  If you're talking about the Manticore, then it's actually quite simple: find it and kill it first. If that isn't possible, then try not blobbing your units up in one spot where the IG commander can find you. The Manticore has no regular attack and its armor and HP are light enough that even some infantry can take it down given enough effort.
     
    @Geno:
    How are 'nids useless now? I'm not really a 'nid player, but all I see is that it nerfs the Swarmlord and termagants a little. And if you reached the point in a match where you can bring out a Swarmlord it won't really matter. Hell, barbed strangler got a buff, and it already was quite useful in tier 1 fights. 
    -----------------------
     
    Also, general strategy while I'm here for everyone who chooses to play in this beta and/or the full game: please please PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE EMPEROR remember to cap the power nodes closest to your base. And once you have capped them, build on them. Use what requisition you have to continue building them until they are full or they are filled by others on your team. You will generate req easily and regain your investment in power provided you aren't playing like complete shit. 
     
    Sure, you can buy a flamer or big shoota for your troops as the situation demands it, but concentrate on take the power nodes, keeping your own, and then destroying the enemy's own power generators to make them waste time and effort rebuilding their dead forces before they can even think of upgrading. The more you do this, the easier you can move to tier 2 and grab a vehicle or two to steamroll over everything they throw at you while the enemy struggles with its tier 1 technology and units. I have played in too many games where they think that simply capturing a power node is enough only to have an enemy sentinel decap it before anything can be done.
     
    Also, don't be afraid to retreat if the odds are against you. There's no shame in running away if you are simply outmatched. The fewer squads you have to reinforce, the more money you save. And it's always, ALWAYS better to reinforce single soldiers than having to buy entirely new squads to replace them. [This PSA was brought to you by some guy on the internet sick and tired of playing with pubbies online.] "
    Also to add to your PSA, when an enemy army retreats with the "!" above their head, START DE-CAPPING THEIR SHIT, too many times i have teammates sit there behind cover playing tummy sticks relishing in their skirmish victory. So instead of only beating them in a gun fight you can also start hitting their resources where it counts. And in regards to the manticore's this guy had 2 of them and just set them back unleashing death from the skies while i attempted to fight his ground troops.
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    #46  Edited By Geno
    @The_Drizzle: Just keep moving around. If you move out of the way as soon as you see the Manticor signal, you'll barely even get damaged. Manticor costs 100 energy, it's a huge investment for IG in T2. If you put it in some sort of walker for instance, you can just march into their base and kill it in 10 seconds. Or you can just ignore and upgrade your ground infantry. I actually have no problem vs. Manticor at all, I consider it one of their weakest units. 
     
    @DocHaus: They nerfed TG crippling poison damage buff. That was essentially the core of the Tyranid army in T1 since Hormas are so terrible. If you watch game replays, most top nid players in CR made double termagants with crippling poison in the beginning of the game. 
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    #47  Edited By The_Drizzle
    @Geno said:
    " @The_Drizzle: Just keep moving around. If you move out of the way as soon as you see the Manticor signal, you'll barely even get damaged. Manticor costs 100 energy, it's a huge investment for IG in T2. If you put it in some sort of walker for instance, you can just march into their base and kill it in 10 seconds. Or you can just ignore and upgrade your ground infantry. I actually have no problem vs. Manticor at all, I consider it one of their weakest units. 
     
    @DocHaus: They nerfed TG crippling poison damage buff. That was essentially the core of the Tyranid army in T1 since Hormas are so terrible. If you watch game replays, most top nid players in CR made double termagants with crippling poison in the beginning of the game.  "
    Do you have any experience with Eldar? I'm attempting to learn different races and i was curious if you had any build orders or tips for them 
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    #48  Edited By Geno
    @The_Drizzle: Always build shees, but just the one squad. Upgrade both shees and guardians with their respective wargear as early as you can (and use them). Shuriken plat is quite decent, building 1 or even 2 is usually beneficial. In T2 you'll want to spam Warp Spiders and the Autarch. Brightlance is one of the best AV in the game, though Shees+Exarch+WS Haywire grenades should be able to handle most vehicles. Warp spiders need a lot of micro to use effectively, so beware of that. Each Eldar commander is equally viable, but warlock is probably most user-friendly. Witchblade for Space Marines, Immolate Blade for everything else. His Fleet of Foot global is also pretty good.  
     
    Only weakness with Eldar though is they have a relatively weak T3. Both Fire Prism and Avatar are useless if not also supported by your whole army.  
     
    Also, watch your req pool because Eldar units are very fragile and very expensive. Don't lose units needlessly (which applies to all factions, but especially to Eldar). 
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    #49  Edited By big_jon

    I am pretty happy that they added the Swarm Lord.

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    #50  Edited By DocHaus
    @The_Drizzle: 
    As Geno said, find ways to flank and hit the enemy, and keep your eyes on every infantry unit, because at the start Eldar are fragile as fuck and will die quickly without support. Grab wargear for Guardians early and put their plasma grenades to good use.
     
    If you're going up against marines from SM or CSM, grab a Ranger squad. The come standard with sniper rifles that can decimate any T1 infantry if you keep them safe, and they come with a special ability that can knock down almost any infantry from afar. Plus you can buy the ability to make them Infiltrate both themselves and surrounding allied units.
     
    I'd say don't rely on the shuriken/brightlance platforms too much after the early game. Eldar are better when they can move around, and these guys usually require setup time. Plus when the enemy comes up with a vehicle or assault marines unless your shuriken cannon has support it will die. I guess when you first march forward to attack, put a guardian squad and/or hero first, then banshees, then ranger or shuriken. Stagger it so when your guardians retreat your enemy will chase them into a waiting ambush.
     
    At T2 try saving up some money for a Falcon if you really need a vehicle. It'll give you a lot more bang for your buck than a Fire Prism and it'll allow you to reinforce nearby infantry just as any other faction's APC. Though I'd personally go for a squad or two of Wraithguard once you hit that tier. As long as you keep enemy melee units away, these guys will eat up anything the enemy throws at them, vehicles or infantry. Also, at this point if you still have banshees left you should get them an exarch and now the squad can hurt some vehicles as well as any infantry.
     
    If you're starting out with Eldar, use Warlock hero, but IMO Farseer is the best one with her Doombringer and Fortune abilities among others. However, Warlock is probably the least fragile of the three. If hit and run is more your style, take the WSE and troll the fuck out of your enemies.
     
    Hope some of this helps.

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