DS Games coming to Virtual Console... on Wii U

#1 Edited by Turtlebird95 (2365 posts) -
#2 Posted by Hailinel (24421 posts) -

@turtlebird95: There's no need for a DS VC on 3DS. The 3DS is already backwards compatible with the DS.

But I could totally go for The World Ends With You on a TV/Gamepad combo. It'd be interesting to see how well that would work.

#3 Posted by HatKing (5896 posts) -

Somebody else posted this already. But that might have gotten locked because I think it was just a link.

It seems like an obvious fit. But it does nothing for me. I have no desire to blow up DS games on my TV. A lot of them look pretty rough on a tiny DS screen. If they smoothed them out, there might be a couple classics I'd be willing to play, I guess.

I'm more frustrated that the 3DS Virtual Console is still lacking SNES games.

#4 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11636 posts) -

@hatking said:

I'm more frustrated that the 3DS Virtual Console is still lacking SNES games.

Don't forget GBA games as well! It's not like they haven't already done the work to emulate the hardware.... oh wait. They did. Two years ago.

#5 Posted by Turtlebird95 (2365 posts) -

@hailinel: I know, but it would still be nice to be able to download DS games on the 3DS and play them off the SD card. Some DS games are hella expensive man.

@hatking Hm, really? Did it get deleted? I looked in all the usual places and didn't see any threads about it.

#6 Posted by HatKing (5896 posts) -

@hailinel: Eh, a lot of DS games are next to impossible to find these days. Stores aren't actively stocking them, and second hand markets are spotty. Though, I guess this depends on your area and luck. I'm kind of stuck to online shops for anything more than slightly uncommon, and there's probably gonna end up being a massive premium that way. I say this as a person that's been looking to track down a few DS games I missed over the years. If they released some of these games digitally, I'd happily buy them. Just like I buy most of my 3DS game digitally.

#7 Posted by HatKing (5896 posts) -

@turtlebird95:

It probably did. I think the guy just posted a link to an untranslated Japanese article and didn't even comment on it.

@arbitrarywater:

With SNES and GBA games regularly making it to the 3DS Virtual Console, even if it were a few of the bigger ones, the 3DS might be my favorite handheld console of all time. It could be so damn great. How do they not see that? I would happily pay upwards of $10 for SNES games. Many of which I've already bought several times over at this point.

#8 Posted by TooWalrus (13175 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@turtlebird95: There's no need for a DS VC on 3DS. The 3DS is already backwards compatible with the DS.

But I could totally go for The World Ends With You on a TV/Gamepad combo. It'd be interesting to see how well that would work.

Weren't you arguing that this was a dumb idea the other day?

Anyway, VC is a start, I suppose. At least they're acknowledging that they realize that the WiiU is basically a big DS, but I'd still love to shove this copy of Soul Hackers that I've got into my WiiU and play it there.

#10 Posted by Hailinel (24421 posts) -

@hatking: @turtlebird95: I get what you guys are saying, but as far as the VC is concerned, they don't need to create a full Virtual Console emulation platform for DS titles on the 3DS. Whether they start selling 3DS digital ports of existing titles is another story (I believe some devs have actually done this to one degree or another), but it's not something that would seemingly require development work on the scale of VC.

#11 Posted by Hailinel (24421 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@turtlebird95: There's no need for a DS VC on 3DS. The 3DS is already backwards compatible with the DS.

But I could totally go for The World Ends With You on a TV/Gamepad combo. It'd be interesting to see how well that would work.

Weren't you arguing that this was a dumb idea the other day?

Anyway, VC is a start, I suppose. At least they're acknowledging that they realize that the WiiU is basically a big DS, but I'd still love to shove this copy of Soul Hackers that I've got into my WiiU and play it there.

No?

There will definitely be some limitations. Certain DS titles were designed with the positioning of the DS screens in mind and hardware elements, which would make them particularly awkward if they were to be ported, if not impossible to port in a functional manner. Trace Memory and Hotel Dusk among other games that made creative use of sleep mode would be particularly odd. Not to say that there wouldn't be ways around it, but it wouldn't be the same.

I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean.

#12 Posted by TooWalrus (13175 posts) -
#13 Posted by bobafettjm (1459 posts) -

Is this going to be using the gamepad and TV as the two screens, or just have both screens on the gamepad?

#14 Posted by HatKing (5896 posts) -
#15 Posted by JJOR64 (18956 posts) -

This pleases me. Now I just need my 3DS Player for my Wii U.

#16 Posted by TruthTellah (8826 posts) -

This is really nice for Wii U, but then, I worry about their emulation of those DS titles. They may end up looking like crap.

Hopefully they look great, but judging by their emulation of DS games on 3DS, I'm skeptical. The 3DS is backwards compatible with the DS, but they don't offer good options for viewing them properly. There are two options. Actual that is too small and Stretched which looks bad for most games. I wish it had various size options. The Vita allows various sizes for PSP and PS1 games, but the 3DS can't?

Not to mention the lack of GBA and SNES games as others have said. I'm happy for the Wii U to hopefully get good versions of some popular DS games, but I'll believe it when I see it. *crosses fingers*

#17 Posted by LiquidPrince (15915 posts) -

DS games stretched to the size of a TV screen will probably look terrible... I mean people were complaining about the difference between the DS and DSXL. That wasn't that big of a change relative to this...

#18 Posted by ripelivejam (3816 posts) -

i would buy so many fucking games for my 3DS if they were available in digi versions

meteos :'(

#19 Posted by Hailinel (24421 posts) -

This is really nice for Wii U, but then, I worry about their emulation of those DS titles. They may end up looking like crap.

Hopefully they look great, but judging by their emulation of DS games on 3DS, I'm skeptical. The 3DS is backwards compatible with the DS, but they don't offer good options for viewing them properly. There are two options. Actual that is too small and Stretched which looks bad for most games. I wish it had various size options. The Vita allows various sizes for PSP and PS1 games, but the 3DS can't?

Not to mention the lack of GBA and SNES games as others have said. I'm happy for the Wii U to hopefully get good versions of some popular DS games, but I'll believe it when I see it. *crosses fingers*

I doubt that the emulation they use will stretch the games too terribly. Assuming that they display the top screen image on the TV, my guess is that they'll have a frame around the image and try to scale it as best as they possibly can. But then, who knows how it'll look in the end.

#20 Posted by Fuzzy_Dunlop (189 posts) -

Uh.... yay? Call me when I can play some god damn 3DS games on my Wii U.

#21 Posted by Hunkulese (2702 posts) -

So when's A Link to the Past getting released?

#22 Posted by JJOR64 (18956 posts) -
#23 Posted by TruthTellah (8826 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@truthtellah said:

This is really nice for Wii U, but then, I worry about their emulation of those DS titles. They may end up looking like crap.

Hopefully they look great, but judging by their emulation of DS games on 3DS, I'm skeptical. The 3DS is backwards compatible with the DS, but they don't offer good options for viewing them properly. There are two options. Actual that is too small and Stretched which looks bad for most games. I wish it had various size options. The Vita allows various sizes for PSP and PS1 games, but the 3DS can't?

Not to mention the lack of GBA and SNES games as others have said. I'm happy for the Wii U to hopefully get good versions of some popular DS games, but I'll believe it when I see it. *crosses fingers*

I doubt that the emulation they use will stretch the games too terribly. Assuming that they display the top screen image on the TV, my guess is that they'll have a frame around the image and try to scale it as best as they possibly can. But then, who knows how it'll look in the end.

But even on only a slightly higher resolution screen with the 3DS, they only offered two options of either "too stretched at a random interval" and "too small at the original resolution". The Wii U is 1080p on a much, much larger screen. Unless they put in the effort to emulate it so that pixels are resized well instead of just blowing up rasters to look too soft or muddy, I just imagine it looking even worse. They -can- do it. I just wonder if they actually will put in the needed effort for it. They didn't do that with the 3DS's DS emulation; so, it worries me. Even the PSP and Vita have more options with emulation than the 3DS.

I hope they do make it look good. Their SNES emulation has been nice enough on Wii U. The 3DS emulation of DS games just really disappointed me, and it worries me with them trying to emulate it on the Wii U. Hopefully they surprise gamers with some decent effort. Many of those great games really deserve it, and they'd be a nice addition to the Wii U.

#24 Posted by frankfartmouth (1016 posts) -

I have to cramp my hand into a funny position to play the DS for long. It really gets uncomfortable. I wouldn't mind playing with a larger controller and with my arms a little more relaxed. I think it's worth a try.

#25 Edited by GrantHeaslip (1573 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

This is really nice for Wii U, but then, I worry about their emulation of those DS titles. They may end up looking like crap.

Hopefully they look great, but judging by their emulation of DS games on 3DS, I'm skeptical. The 3DS is backwards compatible with the DS, but they don't offer good options for viewing them properly. There are two options. Actual that is too small and Stretched which looks bad for most games. I wish it had various size options. The Vita allows various sizes for PSP and PS1 games, but the 3DS can't?

Not to mention the lack of GBA and SNES games as others have said. I'm happy for the Wii U to hopefully get good versions of some popular DS games, but I'll believe it when I see it. *crosses fingers*

In all honestly, I've played through quite a few DS games on the 3DS and 3DS XL, and didn't find the upscaling that annoying or even noticeable. I'm not an expert on upscaling algorithms, but given the mismatch between the DS and 3DS resolutions, they seem to have done all they could.

I was very skeptical going in, because the idea of stretching a game up like that sounded like it was going to look bad, but after the initial period of overscrutinizing it, I got over it and stopped noticing. The one thing I do find a little annoying is fonts, but that's because I've got a thing for sharp pixel fonts. I just played through the entirety of 999 without any legibility problems.

Edit: When I think about playing DS games on the 3DS, it's not the rendering that bugs me -- it's the awful d-pad position. Some DS games might actually play better on the Wii U because its d-pad is positioned in a way that allows it to be used while holding the GamePad in a comfortable way.

#27 Posted by crithon (3138 posts) -

....... remember how annoying there was that little space in between the two screens on Contra 4 and Yoshi's Island?...... yeah, now imagine if they did that again but with 6 feets of distance.

Is Nintendo still going to save games for a raining day? Because I know dozens of friends who missed out on Chrono Trigger before they just sold their Wiis. And what's the pricing model, Gamestop is still pricing some games at original price, and then some AMAZING Games that would blow your mind is at 3 bucks...... Ninja Giaden Dual Swords, Picross 3d and Rocket Slime 3 bucks..... that should be a crime.

#28 Posted by TruthTellah (8826 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

This is really nice for Wii U, but then, I worry about their emulation of those DS titles. They may end up looking like crap.

Hopefully they look great, but judging by their emulation of DS games on 3DS, I'm skeptical. The 3DS is backwards compatible with the DS, but they don't offer good options for viewing them properly. There are two options. Actual that is too small and Stretched which looks bad for most games. I wish it had various size options. The Vita allows various sizes for PSP and PS1 games, but the 3DS can't?

Not to mention the lack of GBA and SNES games as others have said. I'm happy for the Wii U to hopefully get good versions of some popular DS games, but I'll believe it when I see it. *crosses fingers*

In all honestly, I've played through quite a few DS games on the 3DS and 3DS XL, and didn't find the upscaling that annoying or even noticeable. I'm not an expert on upscaling algorithms, but given the mismatch between the DS and 3DS resolutions, they seem to have done all they could.

I was very skeptical going in, because the idea of stretching a game up like that sounded like it was going to look bad, but after the initial period of overscrutinizing it, I got over it and stopped noticing. The one thing I do find a little annoying is fonts, but that's because I've got a thing for sharp pixel fonts. I just played through the entirety of 999 without any legibility problems.

It can definitely make a bigger difference depending on the game, but in general, it's less than ideal. They don't even offer any real options for it. The Vita and PSP at least allow size options, but all the 3DS has is a hidden button combination that can allow you to play it shrunk down to the original resolution. They could at least offer a third option for some kind of middle ground that isn't as soft or muddy.

And if they use a similar style of emulation in blowing it up on the Wii U, that will just be a mess. I want them to do these games justice, but I think Nintendo has given reason to be concerned that they may not.

#29 Posted by Hailinel (24421 posts) -

@grantheaslip said:

@truthtellah said:

This is really nice for Wii U, but then, I worry about their emulation of those DS titles. They may end up looking like crap.

Hopefully they look great, but judging by their emulation of DS games on 3DS, I'm skeptical. The 3DS is backwards compatible with the DS, but they don't offer good options for viewing them properly. There are two options. Actual that is too small and Stretched which looks bad for most games. I wish it had various size options. The Vita allows various sizes for PSP and PS1 games, but the 3DS can't?

Not to mention the lack of GBA and SNES games as others have said. I'm happy for the Wii U to hopefully get good versions of some popular DS games, but I'll believe it when I see it. *crosses fingers*

In all honestly, I've played through quite a few DS games on the 3DS and 3DS XL, and didn't find the upscaling that annoying or even noticeable. I'm not an expert on upscaling algorithms, but given the mismatch between the DS and 3DS resolutions, they seem to have done all they could.

I was very skeptical going in, because the idea of stretching a game up like that sounded like it was going to look bad, but after the initial period of overscrutinizing it, I got over it and stopped noticing. The one thing I do find a little annoying is fonts, but that's because I've got a thing for sharp pixel fonts. I just played through the entirety of 999 without any legibility problems.

It can definitely make a bigger difference depending on the game, but in general, it's less than ideal. They don't even offer any real options for it. The Vita and PSP at least allow size options, but all the 3DS has is a hidden button combination that can allow you to play it shrunk down to the original resolution. They could at least offer a third option for some kind of middle ground that isn't as soft or muddy.

And if they use a similar style of emulation in blowing it up on the Wii U, that will just be a mess. I want them to do these games justice, but I think Nintendo has given reason to be concerned that they may not.

Virtual Console emulation is different than the DS backwards compatibility. Each game is essentially packaged in a software-based emulation wrapper. The hardware-based backwards compatibility of DS games on the 3DS shouldn't really be used as a baseline on how DS games will look on the Wii U.

#30 Posted by dekkadekkadekka (732 posts) -

DS Player for the Wii U please.

#31 Edited by TruthTellah (8826 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@truthtellah said:

@grantheaslip said:

@truthtellah said:

This is really nice for Wii U, but then, I worry about their emulation of those DS titles. They may end up looking like crap.

Hopefully they look great, but judging by their emulation of DS games on 3DS, I'm skeptical. The 3DS is backwards compatible with the DS, but they don't offer good options for viewing them properly. There are two options. Actual that is too small and Stretched which looks bad for most games. I wish it had various size options. The Vita allows various sizes for PSP and PS1 games, but the 3DS can't?

Not to mention the lack of GBA and SNES games as others have said. I'm happy for the Wii U to hopefully get good versions of some popular DS games, but I'll believe it when I see it. *crosses fingers*

In all honestly, I've played through quite a few DS games on the 3DS and 3DS XL, and didn't find the upscaling that annoying or even noticeable. I'm not an expert on upscaling algorithms, but given the mismatch between the DS and 3DS resolutions, they seem to have done all they could.

I was very skeptical going in, because the idea of stretching a game up like that sounded like it was going to look bad, but after the initial period of overscrutinizing it, I got over it and stopped noticing. The one thing I do find a little annoying is fonts, but that's because I've got a thing for sharp pixel fonts. I just played through the entirety of 999 without any legibility problems.

It can definitely make a bigger difference depending on the game, but in general, it's less than ideal. They don't even offer any real options for it. The Vita and PSP at least allow size options, but all the 3DS has is a hidden button combination that can allow you to play it shrunk down to the original resolution. They could at least offer a third option for some kind of middle ground that isn't as soft or muddy.

And if they use a similar style of emulation in blowing it up on the Wii U, that will just be a mess. I want them to do these games justice, but I think Nintendo has given reason to be concerned that they may not.

Virtual Console emulation is different than the DS backwards compatibility. Each game is essentially packaged in a software-based emulation wrapper. The hardware-based backwards compatibility of DS games on the 3DS shouldn't really be used as a baseline on how DS games will look on the Wii U.

So, by that argument, DS games being available on the 3DS eShop could also make them better, right? If so, then I think offering DS games on the 3DS eShop(maybe even with *gasp!* cross-buy with Wii U) would be fantastic.

I do hope your faith in them holds true and they do a great job with the DS emulation. :)

#32 Edited by GrantHeaslip (1573 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

@grantheaslip said:

@truthtellah said:

This is really nice for Wii U, but then, I worry about their emulation of those DS titles. They may end up looking like crap.

Hopefully they look great, but judging by their emulation of DS games on 3DS, I'm skeptical. The 3DS is backwards compatible with the DS, but they don't offer good options for viewing them properly. There are two options. Actual that is too small and Stretched which looks bad for most games. I wish it had various size options. The Vita allows various sizes for PSP and PS1 games, but the 3DS can't?

Not to mention the lack of GBA and SNES games as others have said. I'm happy for the Wii U to hopefully get good versions of some popular DS games, but I'll believe it when I see it. *crosses fingers*

In all honestly, I've played through quite a few DS games on the 3DS and 3DS XL, and didn't find the upscaling that annoying or even noticeable. I'm not an expert on upscaling algorithms, but given the mismatch between the DS and 3DS resolutions, they seem to have done all they could.

I was very skeptical going in, because the idea of stretching a game up like that sounded like it was going to look bad, but after the initial period of overscrutinizing it, I got over it and stopped noticing. The one thing I do find a little annoying is fonts, but that's because I've got a thing for sharp pixel fonts. I just played through the entirety of 999 without any legibility problems.

It can definitely make a bigger difference depending on the game, but in general, it's less than ideal. They don't even offer any real options for it. The Vita and PSP at least allow size options, but all the 3DS has is a hidden button combination that can allow you to play it shrunk down to the original resolution. They could at least offer a third option for some kind of middle ground that isn't as soft or muddy.

And if they use a similar style of emulation in blowing it up on the Wii U, that will just be a mess. I want them to do these games justice, but I think Nintendo has given reason to be concerned that they may not.

The thing is that the DS and 3DS aren't that different in resolution to begin with. The original DS screens had 192 vertical lines, and the 3DS screens have 240 vertical lines. At that point, what would a middle ground even mean?

I suspect they were stuck in a position where it pretty much had to be a little blurry. Based on my rough understanding of how upscaling works, upscaling low-resolution pixel art by 25% without applying some sort of filter is going to lead to some ugly results, because you're going to have to double one in every four lines. I guess they could have provided different smoothing options for different art styles and personal preferences, but that's pretty fiddly and non-Nintendo-like. You say it was less than ideal, but I don't think it could have been much more ideal given the decidedly un-ideal reality of what they were working with.

The Vita's a very different story, because it's exactly twice the resolution (well, four times the pixels, not sure how resolution is defined). That's pretty much the best case scenario in terms of sharpness.

(Again, I'm not an A/V expert!)

#33 Posted by TruthTellah (8826 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

@grantheaslip said:

@truthtellah said:

This is really nice for Wii U, but then, I worry about their emulation of those DS titles. They may end up looking like crap.

Hopefully they look great, but judging by their emulation of DS games on 3DS, I'm skeptical. The 3DS is backwards compatible with the DS, but they don't offer good options for viewing them properly. There are two options. Actual that is too small and Stretched which looks bad for most games. I wish it had various size options. The Vita allows various sizes for PSP and PS1 games, but the 3DS can't?

Not to mention the lack of GBA and SNES games as others have said. I'm happy for the Wii U to hopefully get good versions of some popular DS games, but I'll believe it when I see it. *crosses fingers*

In all honestly, I've played through quite a few DS games on the 3DS and 3DS XL, and didn't find the upscaling that annoying or even noticeable. I'm not an expert on upscaling algorithms, but given the mismatch between the DS and 3DS resolutions, they seem to have done all they could.

I was very skeptical going in, because the idea of stretching a game up like that sounded like it was going to look bad, but after the initial period of overscrutinizing it, I got over it and stopped noticing. The one thing I do find a little annoying is fonts, but that's because I've got a thing for sharp pixel fonts. I just played through the entirety of 999 without any legibility problems.

It can definitely make a bigger difference depending on the game, but in general, it's less than ideal. They don't even offer any real options for it. The Vita and PSP at least allow size options, but all the 3DS has is a hidden button combination that can allow you to play it shrunk down to the original resolution. They could at least offer a third option for some kind of middle ground that isn't as soft or muddy.

And if they use a similar style of emulation in blowing it up on the Wii U, that will just be a mess. I want them to do these games justice, but I think Nintendo has given reason to be concerned that they may not.

The thing is that the DS and 3DS aren't that different in resolution to begin with. The original DS screens had 192 vertical lines, and the 3DS screens have 240 vertical lines. At that point, what would a middle ground even mean?

I suspect they were stuck in a position where it pretty much had to be a little blurry. Based on my rough understanding of how upscaling works, upscaling low-resolution pixel art by 25% without applying some sort of filter is going to lead to some ugly results, because you're going to have to double one in every four lines. I guess they could have provided different smoothing options for different art styles and personal preferences, but that's pretty fiddly and non-Nintendo-like

The Vita's a very different story, because it's exactly twice the resolution (well, four times the pixels, not sure how resolution is defined). That's pretty much the best case scenario in terms of sharpness.

(Again, I'm not an A/V expert!)

It certainly wasn't going to be as sharp at a larger size, but at the same display size, they could have done more to make it look right. Really, even a 20% size option would be better than the 25% we ended up with. heh. A slight filter could have been nice, or maybe just something to increase the contrast to make up for how the 3D upper screen sort of washes them out more in comparison to the bottom screen. Just little things instead of the most basic, straightforward way they seem to have chosen. They've had the time to find ways to make it better.

Though, obviously, bringing SNES and GBA games to the 3DS is more pressing, as they don't even have the functional compatibility of DS titles. They've shown that they can do it with ambassadors, which was nearly 3 years ago, and they've had a lot of time to make their emulation even better. R4 emulators on the 3DS can run these games. Nintendo can do this.

#34 Edited by egg (1455 posts) -

Oh I think I get what Ninty is trying to do with this... The tablet is so under utilized on WiiU and this is probably their attempt at remedying that.

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