Has the Wii U failed?

Posted by Colorwind (230 posts) -

Ever since the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 were released, there’s been an ongoing discussion about the Wii U and whether or not it has failed. This discussion isn’t anything new, as it’s been really the talk about the consoles for a majority of 2013. I even wrote an article for the site I work for, Gaming Precision, about the third party problems the Wii U has. However, the end of the year is upon us, Nintendo has made some moves in an attempt to make the Wii U more worthwhile, and I want to convey my current thoughts on the Wii U in 2013. There are three common complaints and points about the console I want to address and will use those as stepping off points. This blog will also be about Nintendo as the two are intrinsically linked.

  • Nintendo will go out of business because the Wii U isn’t selling.

Nintendo is NOT going to go out of business because the 3DS is selling very well. Also, they have excess money from the original Wii and its 100,000 sales worldwide. Now having said that, the Wii U is losing Nintendo money. Whatever money Nintendo is making from the 3DS, some of it has to go towards the Wii U, which is currently selling at a loss to the company and will not even making its projected sales for the year. So the current state of Nintendo is safe because the 3DS is selling well enough to sustain the company, not to mention the money it has from before. However, how long Nintendo will keep sinking money in what is a losing endeavor.

  • It’s too early to call the Wii U a failure.

Unfortunately, it’s NOT too early to call the Wii U a failure. A majority of consoles have their future success determined within the first year of its release. The Sega Saturn was buried here in the United States after consumers decided to go with the cheaper Sony PlayStation months later. The Sega Dreamcast, despite its quality, went under within a year of the Sony PlayStation 2’s release despite a year head start because Sony was able to convince everyone the PS2 was worth the wait. The only excuse I can think if is the 16-bit era when the Genesis came to sell just as much as the SNES after being on the market for two years when the SNES was released.

The best way to compare this would be to the 3DS, which had a very rough start. However, by the 3DS’ one year anniversary, it had made a comeback and public opinion about the handheld was changing (also the general public started to realize that the 3DS wasn’t just another DS). Nintendo has failed to do this with the Wii U. Despite releasing a good Zelda remake (Wind Waker HD), and a good Mario game (3D World), the public and gaming audience is uninterested and it’s because of the similarities to the 3DS. Nintendo already tried this (Wind Waker HD = Ocarina of Time 3D, 3D Land = 3D World) and the public wants something different. Even me, a hardcore gamer, is not really interested in Super Mario 3D World despite hearing that it’s a great game because I don’t believe it anymore. I’ve played 3D Land, New Mario 2, Wii, and the original and they were all the same game. Competent but the same.

Nintendo isn’t doing anything different enough to make a case for the Wii U as a system that does something the 3DS, DS, Wii or anything before it can do. Another Mario game in the vein of the New series won’t work, nor will an HD remake of a Zelda game. We need a Mario game that is an evolution for the series in the way Super Mario 64 was to the N64 and Super Mario Galaxy was for the Wii, not in the same vein as those games but what they did for the series. We also need a Zelda that is a brand new world and has no direct connection to the other games in the series. We also need a Mario Kart game that has more than just racing on the ceiling. However, since we’re not getting that and we didn’t get that within the console’s first year, the Wii U’s fate may be sealed.

  • The Wii U has good games.

Yes. Yes it does. The Wii U has good games. The TurboGrafx-16 also had good games. The Sega Saturn had good games as well. Hell, the Sega Dreamcast continues to have good games as independent developers make games like Dux and Gunlord. So what’s the problem? People always say that software (games) drives the hardware (console). If you don’t have the software, the hardware will fail. Well, the Wii U has got some great games. Batman Arkham City, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Assassin’s Creed III and IV, Rayman Legends, and Tekken Tag Tournament 2, just to name a few. There’s even smaller indie titles like Mutant Mudds, Little Inferno, Trine 2, Edge, and Bit Trip Runner 2. All of these are awesome games and one everyone should play. So WTF?

All of the games I listed are on other consoles as well. Even Rayman Legends, which was originally billed as a Wii U exclusive, wound up being released on everything you can think of. What the Wii U lacks is interesting exclusive titles. So what that means is it needs games that are A)exclusive, B)good, and C)different. The Wii U currently has 22 exclusives. Half of those are party game nonsense like SING Party or exercise games like Wii Fit U. Six or so of the games are titles like the aforementioned Super Mario 3D World, Wind Waker HD or Lego City Undercover that are fun but don’t do anything different that could be enjoyed on the Wii. Finally, there’s Sonic Lost World, ZombiU and The Wonderful 101 that are different but not that great. Perhaps good but not great. That leaves me with Pikmin 3. Now are you going to buy a Wii U for Pikmin 3? No. And neither than anyone else. If you have a Wii U and ONLY a Wii U, you’ll get a good amount of enjoyment out of it. Otherwise, there’s no real reason to pick one up.

Now, to wrap up, I want to make this clear: I want to buy a Wii U. I’m a hardcore gamer who works for a gaming journalism website so on both a personal and professional level, I want one. That being said, I don’t think the Wii U is going to last until the next generation. I think Nintendo will ultimately pull the plug on the Wii U soon and develop another console to last the rest of this generation. I give the Wii U another two years. By the middle of next year, it’ll be clear to Nintendo that the Wii U is a failure and they’ll start developing another console. The Wii U will be discontinued at the end of 2015 and we’ll see a new Nintendo console either at the end of 2015 or in 2016. My guess is they’ll try to just be a console for children and they’ll just play to their strengths, forgetting the hardcore audience in the process. Mario games will become easier, Zelda games will have 100 tutorials and franchises like Metroid and Fire Emblem will be forgotten. The console (maybe the Wii 3) will probably be similar to the Wii U but with a kiddie like design (like the Nintendo 2DS) focus again on motion control and simplicity. Nintendo will essentially become the maker of a “my first console” system.

#1 Posted by Yadilie (380 posts) -

How can the Wii U fail when no one, even Nintendo, expected it to do anything? 3DS is king in Japan. Why bother making costly games when you can make the same game at a lower fidelity cheaper.

#2 Edited by audioBusting (1477 posts) -

Why are there some many blog posts and news articles with the same headline (with the answer being no, or at least not really) this past couple of weeks? Did I miss something?

#3 Posted by believer258 (11634 posts) -

We don't really need to keep bringing up the death of Nintendo. Yes, if they keep going down the path of lackluster games released on subpar consoles, they're not going to last forever. Will the Wii U be the death of Nintendo? I don't know. It's certainly not their high point. But then, I really doubt that Nintendo will reach the same high that the SNES was. Oh, God, it will be glorious if they can beat that.

To the inevitable person who quotes me and lists off Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros. and Xenoblade Chronicles and No More Heroes - I know. They can't ride forever on Mario, Zelda, and some JRPG's forever, though. Nostalgia and games for crazy people like me don't float a console forever. They can float the 3DS, but that's because it's not as expensive to make and it has plenty of good games on it.

But can we wait until something drastic happens before bringing the issue up again? Please?

#4 Posted by TowerSixteen (542 posts) -
#5 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4330 posts) -

It's the new Gamecube

#6 Posted by Kidavenger (3510 posts) -

If Nintendo learns from this experience(how could they not), the Wii U won't be a failure.

#7 Posted by AlexGBRO (274 posts) -

2014 will be very imp if the move can move a good number of machines they will be back on the 3 party radar and we could see some specific titles for this console like that wii Dead Space Game and maybe next year will get news on gta top-down game for the 3ds ?

#8 Edited by GERALTITUDE (2923 posts) -

If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, how could they possible lose money on it? Only time can tell if all the hardware they produced will actually sell, and that's the only Wii U Profitability Measurement we can check.

Besides those two factors, which are super vague I might add, we know nothing.

PS3 "did not sell well" its first two years and it ended up doing great in the end. The Wii U launch was record breaking, but that didn't count for much a year later huh? So I guess those record breaking PS4/XB1 launches shouldn't mean anything either.

If Nintendo's new console comes out in 2016, the Wii U will have lasted 4 years, which isn't far from what the industry standard used to be before PS3/360. The N64 was around for 5 years but you can tell from release schedules that the show was really over in 2000, though there were some hits in 2001 (Conker, Paper Mario). You could argue the Cube lasted a hair longer, and the Wii a hair longer than that, but not by much. Which is all to say that a 2016 hardware release would be fine, especially considering that the Wii U is only two Wii's duct-taped together.

#9 Posted by SuperSambo (2853 posts) -

@geraltitude said:

If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, how could they possible lose money on it?

Don't start a business.

#10 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -
#11 Posted by GERALTITUDE (2923 posts) -

@geraltitude said:

If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, how could they possible lose money on it?

Don't start a business.

lol ok, please explain. Or should I assume you aren't a business owner either?

I ask again. If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, and every Nintendo-developed game is profitable, where is the money being lost? in Marketing?

#12 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4330 posts) -

@darji said:

@colourful_hippie said:

It's the new Gamecube

I do not think it will reach even close these numbers: The newest Pachter predictions for November NPD

Pachter added that Wii U is expected to have suffered significantly as a result of the launches, with hardware sales falling 65 per cent year-on-year.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/us-ps4-november-sales-estimated-at-1-25m-units-66-ahead-of-xbox-one/0125546

Which would mean 149k for the whole November including Black Friday.

I'm talking about it in terms of it being the Nintendo game machine like it used to be, the Wii was the one deviation from the norm. Also, hitting 22 million units sold over the course of a traditional life span isn't impossible unless Nintendo prematurely puts a bullet in the console in favor of a new one.

#13 Posted by Sergio (2050 posts) -

@supersambo said:

@geraltitude said:

If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, how could they possible lose money on it?

Don't start a business.

lol ok, please explain. Or should I assume you aren't a business owner either?

I ask again. If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, and every Nintendo-developed game is profitable, where is the money being lost? in Marketing?

While I don't agree with the OP and think it's too early to tell, there are other factors besides the number of units sold for a profit. The units that are not sold and are sitting on shelves or warehouses; the minimum number of units that they may be contractually obligated to manufacture that may not be sold as fast as previous consoles. Anything can factor into the company as a whole losing money on the Wii U regardless of each unit itself selling at a profit.

#14 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4330 posts) -

PS3 "did not sell well" its first two years and it ended up doing great in the end. The Wii U launch was record breaking, but that didn't count for much a year later huh? So I guess those record breaking PS4/XB1 launches shouldn't mean anything either.

Wii U is in a different situation because it got to experience a mass exodus of 3rd party support, the PS3 got better because 3rd party devs finally figured out the hardware and started releasing better ports.

PS4 and X1 both experienced record breaking sales which shows a higher interest in more capable hardware that the Wii U simply lacks, but like with anything the big picture will be more clear as time passes.

#15 Posted by SuperfluousMoniker (2907 posts) -

As long as it has good games it is not a failure. It has good games already and more good games on the way. Who cares if the mainstream doesn't buy it? I'm guessing 5-10 years from now it will be viewed like the Saturn or Dreamcast and highly sought after by hardcore gamers who missed it, and everyone else will be playing Grand Theft Call of Titan Destiny and hypothesizing when Nintendo goes third party.

Online
#16 Edited by GERALTITUDE (2923 posts) -

@sergio said:

@geraltitude said:

@supersambo said:

@geraltitude said:

If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, how could they possible lose money on it?

Don't start a business.

lol ok, please explain. Or should I assume you aren't a business owner either?

I ask again. If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, and every Nintendo-developed game is profitable, where is the money being lost? in Marketing?

While I don't agree with the OP and think it's too early to tell, there are other factors besides the number of units sold for a profit. The units that are not sold and are sitting on shelves or warehouses; the minimum number of units that they may be contractually obligated to manufacture that may not be sold as fast as previous consoles. Anything can factor into the company as a whole losing money on the Wii U regardless of each unit itself selling at a profit.

brought that up in my original post, said We can't know what happens to those units until the years pass, so it's impossible to say how they sold now.

#17 Posted by Colorwind (230 posts) -

@yadilie: I think Nintendo thought it would do something. No company in their right mind would release a console expecting it to not make money.

#18 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

Nintendo games on Xbone next year and Master Chief and Blinx The Timecat in Smash Bros.

#19 Edited by Crembaw (315 posts) -

Nintendo games on Xbone next year and Master Chief and Blinx The Timecat in Smash Bros.

Finally, all my Halo 2 X Blinx The Time Cat fanfictions will be canon.

#20 Edited by ripelivejam (3538 posts) -

man darji is attracted to these threads/blogs like flies to puppy.

also it would rule if this were the next gamecube. but it's got some neat games in its own right.

#21 Edited by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

The wii u specifically? Yes sales wise so far the wii u is a failed product. That could change but as of right now it is true. That doesn't mean Nintendo hasnt failed, just that product. And you are very right about the 3ds, it's selling great. Nintendo will be fine, just maybe not the wii u

#22 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -

I think the Wii U has failed in the sense that it cannot keep up with the PS4 and X1 when it comes to multiplatform games. Hell, it can barely keep up with the PS3 and 360 in that regard. However Nintendo will survive how Nintendo has always survived; by making a killer hand held with some killer games, and having the occasional good game on their home consoles. Just enough to satisfy people like me who occasionally wonder why I have that machine sitting under my TV in the first place. Wind Waker HD was why I kept my Wii U after buying it on launch day, and currently the only other game I'm planning on buying on it is Bayonetta 2 and whatever the new Zelda game is. Here's hoping it's some sort of future Zelda with a cyberpunk aesthetic.

Online
#23 Posted by DarthOrange (3851 posts) -

So first you say this:

All of the games I listed are on other consoles as well. Even Rayman Legends, which was originally billed as a Wii U exclusive, wound up being released on everything you can think of. What the Wii U lacks is interesting exclusive titles. So what that means is it needs games that are A)exclusive, B)good, and C)different. The Wii U currently has 22 exclusives. Half of those are party game nonsense like SING Party or exercise games like Wii Fit U. Six or so of the games are titles like the aforementioned Super Mario 3D World, Wind Waker HD or Lego City Undercover that are fun but don’t do anything different that could be enjoyed on the Wii. Finally, there’s Sonic Lost World, ZombiU and The Wonderful 101 that are different but not that great. Perhaps good but not great. That leaves me with Pikmin 3. Now are you going to buy a Wii U for Pikmin 3? No. And neither than anyone else. If you have a Wii U and ONLY a Wii U, you’ll get a good amount of enjoyment out of it. Otherwise, there’s no real reason to pick one up.

Then you say this:

Now, to wrap up, I want to make this clear: I want to buy a Wii U. I’m a hardcore gamer who works for a gaming journalism website so on both a personal and professional level, I want one.

How are you speaking to the quality of games you have never played? Also there was nothing like Lego City on Wii.

By the middle of next year, it’ll be clear to Nintendo that the Wii U is a failure and they’ll start developing another console.

They have long since started working on the successors to both the Wii U and 3DS. These things are not made in a few months.

I’m a hardcore gamer

What does that even mean? You say it a couple of times like it give some sort of credibility to your post. Am I not a hardcore gamer if the Wii U is my favorite system and I think The Wonderful 101 and New Super Luigi U are better then The Last of Us? If Marvel Super Hero Squad was one of my favorite games of the generation but Halo and Gears of War were not then am I not hardcore?

we’ll see a new Nintendo console either at the end of 2015 or in 2016.

Holiday 2016 seems believable to me.

My guess is they’ll try to just be a console for children and they’ll just play to their strengths, forgetting the hardcore audience in the process. Mario games will become easier, Zelda games will have 100 tutorials and franchises like Metroid and Fire Emblem will be forgotten.

Again, who is the hardcore audience? What games do these people like and dislike? The second sentence is just nonsense. Those games are already kid friendly, there would be no need to change them.

The console (maybe the Wii 3) will probably be similar to the Wii U but with a kiddie like design (like the Nintendo 2DS) focus again on motion control and simplicity. Nintendo will essentially become the maker of a “my first console” system.

What is a kiddie like design? I have a 2DS and it is way more comfortable than the 3DS. As for the other point, Nintendo has been the best choice for young gamers for a while now. They are the best ones at offering local multiplayer and coop games (which is why I love the system). I hope they continue that route.

Unfortunately, it’s NOT too early to call the Wii U a failure.

It depends on what your definition of a failure is. I have already got more than my moneys worth in entertainment out of my Wii U. I do not consider it a failure. Financially? Sure. But I don't own stock in Nintendo and thus I don't care how much money they make. I have quoted Platinum on this a couple of times but it works for all those who complain about the sales of a console as if it has any barring on its entertainment value.

"Buy the game and worry about the sales never. The fun you have will stay the same.

I get wanting to root for a winner, but the minute that crazy sales makes a game more fun is the minute that it becomes something worth worrying about as a gamer."

#24 Edited by Fattony12000 (7049 posts) -

Ever since the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 were released, there’s been an ongoing discussion about the Wii U and whether or not it has failed.

Huh.

#25 Posted by Hailinel (23891 posts) -

I feel like we have one of these threads every week.

#26 Posted by DarthOrange (3851 posts) -

man darji is attracted to these threads/blogs like flies to puppy.

It is pretty funny that a dude that seems to absolutely hate the system is one of the top posters.

#27 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7050 posts) -

@ripelivejam said:

man darji is attracted to these threads/blogs like flies to puppy.

It is pretty funny that a dude that seems to absolutely hate the system is one of the top posters.

It really is.

#28 Posted by DarthOrange (3851 posts) -
#29 Posted by joshwent (2113 posts) -

Mario games will become easier, Zelda games will have 100 tutorials and franchises like Metroid and Fire Emblem will be forgotten. The console (maybe the Wii 3) will probably be similar to the Wii U but with a kiddie like design (like the Nintendo 2DS) focus again on motion control and simplicity. Nintendo will essentially become the maker of a “my first console” system.

This statement shows complete ignorance of what Nintendo is offering. Just because Mario isn't shooting dudes in the face, and Link isn't covered in blood after every battle, doesn't make them kids games. Nintendo makes games that appeal to a broad audience which are consistently considered best in their respective genres.

I really think you've just bought into the misleading idea that was fabricated by Sega's marketing against the SNES way back when. MK1 didn't have blood enabled, and instantly, it was a console for kids! It wasn't really true then, and it still isn't now.

Hmm. That's where kids come from, so maybe it IS a kid's console!

I thought after the recent consensus that the new Mario and Zelda are fantastic games, that we could finally stop seeing these, "Nintendo's Doomed! The Wii U has Failed!!" posts, but I guess I have to accept that baseless hyperbole on the internet is with us for good.

#30 Edited by StarvingGamer (7999 posts) -

@supersambo said:

@geraltitude said:

If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, how could they possible lose money on it?

Don't start a business.

lol ok, please explain. Or should I assume you aren't a business owner either?

I ask again. If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, and every Nintendo-developed game is profitable, where is the money being lost? in Marketing?

Probably the hundreds of millions of dollars they spent on R&D that they have yet to recoup. Maybe.

#31 Edited by TheMathlete (322 posts) -

@alexgbro said:

2014 will be very imp if the move can move a good number of machines they will be back on the 3 party radar and we could see some specific titles for this console like that wii Dead Space Game and maybe next year will get news on gta top-down game for the 3ds ?

chinatown wars 2 for the 3DS?! I think so.

#32 Posted by Mcfart (1549 posts) -

Yes, it failed. No, Nintendo probably doesn't care that much since the 3DS is doing amazingly. They'll probably soon treat it like Sony treats the Vita (few games in general, but they'll release the occasional gem).

#33 Posted by CircleNine (381 posts) -

lol ok, please explain. Or should I assume you aren't a business owner either?

I ask again. If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, and every Nintendo-developed game is profitable, where is the money being lost? in Marketing?

Creating a console isn't free. Years of internal research and development costs just don't disappear the minute you've finalized the system and it hits the shelves. As for marketing, what marketing? The fact that it's a pretty damn common thing for people to still think that the WiiU is just an add on to the Wii shows that they've done fuck all in terms of any proper marketing for it.

#34 Edited by afabs515 (1011 posts) -

@geraltitude said:

@supersambo said:

@geraltitude said:

If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, how could they possible lose money on it?

Don't start a business.

lol ok, please explain. Or should I assume you aren't a business owner either?

I ask again. If every Wii U sold with a game is profitable, and every Nintendo-developed game is profitable, where is the money being lost? in Marketing?

It costs money to develop each console. You need to look at the big picture. Suppose it costs Nintendo 250 dollars to manufacture one Wii U and they sell each with a game for 280 + 60 = 340, which nets them a profit of 90 dollars on each console. If they manufacture 100 units, it cost them 25,000 dollars. But if they only sell 50 units, they made 17,000 dollars. This is a loss of 8,000 dollars, even though they "made a profit off each unit + a game". Statements like that are smoke and mirrors. You need to know how many they sold and how many they manufactured before you know whether or not they made a profit. Not to mention the R&D cost.

EDIT: Sorry, I meant 270 as the price of the Wii U, but my point remains the same.

#35 Posted by Superfriend (1526 posts) -

It's the new Gamecube

Does it have Wave Race?

If so, I´ll buy ten.

#36 Posted by Malphye (413 posts) -

Just brought Super Mario 3D World and increased my library by 2 games. If the Wii U fails, I can safely say I tried to prevent it.

#37 Posted by Colorwind (230 posts) -

@darthorange: They haven't reviewed well, nor is anyone talking about it or buying these games. They aren't selling. Also, even if I did have the system, I would play all of those games because I'm not a millionaire.

Lego City Undercover is an open world Lego game, like Lego Batman 2 and the recently released Lego Marvel Super Heroes, except those two games have characters you already know. I'm not saying Lego City Undercover is bad, just not distinct.

Did I ever say anyone who likes a Wii U isn't a hardcore gamer? In fact, I stated being a hardcore gamer as a reason for wanting a Wii U. The opposite of what you're saying.

A kiddie design would be like what the 2DS looks like. I'm not saying whether or not it's comfortable. In other words, it won't look like the sleek black box the Wii U is now. It'll look like the Gamecube or SNES did. With purple marks and not looking like other appliances, like other consoles and cable boxes, blu-ray players, etc. Which isn't a bad thing per se. It'll definitely be distinct.

As for failure, yes. I'm talking about financially. That's what I mean and it is a big deal to Nintendo. They need to make money and they won't waste their time with a product that isn't. They're not going to continue to support a console just because you like it. I love the Saturn; I'm always finding out about cool games I haven't played for it, but I totally get why it failed.

#38 Posted by Colorwind (230 posts) -

@joshwent: This shows you didn't read my post correctly. Mario games are kiddie games in that they have the aesthetic but Mario games can be really hard. I'm not saying that older people can't enjoy them. However, I fear that in the future Nintendo will forget about the older crowd and make them easier in later Mario titles, so that they are SOLELY for kids. And who said anything about these games needing to be violent? I'm not saying the Wii U is for kids. I'm saying that the Wii U isn't really for anyone! And that since Nintendo tried to rope in the hardcore audience with the Wii U and failed, their next console will be focused on kids and casual audiences. Read the post correctly, please.

#39 Posted by DarthOrange (3851 posts) -

@darthorange: They haven't reviewed well, nor is anyone talking about it or buying these games. They aren't selling. Also, even if I did have the system, I would play all of those games because I'm not a millionaire.

Who is not talking about buying the system and games? Both this site and GAF have had several threads about new people wanting and/or getting a Wii U and talking about which games they should get.

Lego City Undercover is an open world Lego game, like Lego Batman 2 and the recently released Lego Marvel Super Heroes, except those two games have characters you already know. I'm not saying Lego City Undercover is bad, just not distinct.

Maybe not aesthetically, but gameplay wise it is way deeper than any of the other Lego games. Like a charming Lego Sleeping Dogs.

Did I ever say anyone who likes a Wii U isn't a hardcore gamer? In fact, I stated being a hardcore gamer as a reason for wanting a Wii U. The opposite of what you're saying.

So what is a hardcore gamer?

A kiddie design would be like what the 2DS looks like. I'm not saying whether or not it's comfortable. In other words, it won't look like the sleek black box the Wii U is now. It'll look like the Gamecube or SNES did. With purple marks and not looking like other appliances, like other consoles and cable boxes, blu-ray players, etc. Which isn't a bad thing per se. It'll definitely be distinct.

Where does that prediction come from? I think having a colorful box is more then enough.

As for failure, yes. I'm talking about financially. That's what I mean and it is a big deal to Nintendo. They need to make money and they won't waste their time with a product that isn't. They're not going to continue to support a console just because you like it. I love the Saturn; I'm always finding out about cool games I haven't played for it, but I totally get why it failed.

So when do you think that Nintendo just completely checks out?

Also, while not equivalent, what do you think about the Vita? Sony has made like 3 games for that thing this year and hasn't announced anything for next year (that I know of). Do you think that will also soon be abandoned?

#40 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@joshwent: This shows you didn't read my post correctly. Mario games are kiddie games in that they have the aesthetic but Mario games can be really hard. I'm not saying that older people can't enjoy them. However, I fear that in the future Nintendo will forget about the older crowd and make them easier in later Mario titles, so that they are SOLELY for kids. And who said anything about these games needing to be violent? I'm not saying the Wii U is for kids. I'm saying that the Wii U isn't really for anyone! And that since Nintendo tried to rope in the hardcore audience with the Wii U and failed, their next console will be focused on kids and casual audiences. Read the post correctly, please.

They are already doing this. For example Mario 3D World for example has these wide areas because it is much easier to navigate for people not playing games that often. That was the design decision for this.

#41 Edited by Slag (4001 posts) -

Guys, give Nintendo at least one more Christmas before you write them off.

Sony and Microsoft got off to a great start, but they need to bring some serious hits next year otherwise those systems will fade quickly. Sony in particular needs to show us some "next gen" games beyond Killzone to maintain the momentum they have. Chances are they will, but there's no guarantee they will execute.

Nintendo can weather a storm much better than either of those two if need be given the way they structure their business.

#42 Edited by axialcartographer (5 posts) -

I'm quoting a post I made in a similar thread: "It's having really rough start, but it will improve. The people calling for Nintendo to leave the console business are silly, as it would take several catastrophic failures (and the Wii U is not one of them) to cause that."

I'm really looking forward to what Nintendo learns from this console.

#43 Posted by DarthOrange (3851 posts) -

@darji said:

@colorwind said:

@joshwent: This shows you didn't read my post correctly. Mario games are kiddie games in that they have the aesthetic but Mario games can be really hard. I'm not saying that older people can't enjoy them. However, I fear that in the future Nintendo will forget about the older crowd and make them easier in later Mario titles, so that they are SOLELY for kids. And who said anything about these games needing to be violent? I'm not saying the Wii U is for kids. I'm saying that the Wii U isn't really for anyone! And that since Nintendo tried to rope in the hardcore audience with the Wii U and failed, their next console will be focused on kids and casual audiences. Read the post correctly, please.

They are already doing this. For example Mario 3D World for example has these wide areas because it is much easier to navigate for people not playing games that often. That was the design decision for this.

?

3D World has tons of absolutely brutal areas. Everything up until Bowser is fairly easy, but after that once you get into the post game the difficulty ramps up like crazy. I just got past the last mushroom world level and the timing on those tiny ass platforms was ridiculous.

Also I'm pretty sure the levels being wider was to allow coop.

#44 Edited by GooieGreen (453 posts) -

I support the PlayStation Vita so whatever I think doesn't matter.

#45 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@darji said:

@colorwind said:

@joshwent: This shows you didn't read my post correctly. Mario games are kiddie games in that they have the aesthetic but Mario games can be really hard. I'm not saying that older people can't enjoy them. However, I fear that in the future Nintendo will forget about the older crowd and make them easier in later Mario titles, so that they are SOLELY for kids. And who said anything about these games needing to be violent? I'm not saying the Wii U is for kids. I'm saying that the Wii U isn't really for anyone! And that since Nintendo tried to rope in the hardcore audience with the Wii U and failed, their next console will be focused on kids and casual audiences. Read the post correctly, please.

They are already doing this. For example Mario 3D World for example has these wide areas because it is much easier to navigate for people not playing games that often. That was the design decision for this.

?

3D World has tons of absolutely brutal areas. Everything up until Bowser is fairly easy, but after that once you get into the post game the difficulty ramps up like crazy. I just got past the last mushroom world level and the timing on those tiny ass platforms was ridiculous.

Also I'm pretty sure the levels being wider was to allow coop.

Oh I do not doubt that but these people normally do not finish games at all. That is why I think they make it much harder at a certain point of a game. And when these people who normally do not play much games they had their fill of the game.

#46 Posted by Sergio (2050 posts) -

@darji said:

@darthorange said:

@darji said:

@colorwind said:

@joshwent: This shows you didn't read my post correctly. Mario games are kiddie games in that they have the aesthetic but Mario games can be really hard. I'm not saying that older people can't enjoy them. However, I fear that in the future Nintendo will forget about the older crowd and make them easier in later Mario titles, so that they are SOLELY for kids. And who said anything about these games needing to be violent? I'm not saying the Wii U is for kids. I'm saying that the Wii U isn't really for anyone! And that since Nintendo tried to rope in the hardcore audience with the Wii U and failed, their next console will be focused on kids and casual audiences. Read the post correctly, please.

They are already doing this. For example Mario 3D World for example has these wide areas because it is much easier to navigate for people not playing games that often. That was the design decision for this.

?

3D World has tons of absolutely brutal areas. Everything up until Bowser is fairly easy, but after that once you get into the post game the difficulty ramps up like crazy. I just got past the last mushroom world level and the timing on those tiny ass platforms was ridiculous.

Also I'm pretty sure the levels being wider was to allow coop.

Oh I do not doubt that but these people normally do not finish games at all. That is why I think they make it much harder at a certain point of a game. And when these people who normally do not play much games they had their fill of the game.

Who are "these people" you're talking about? I think Nintendo knowingly structured their game this way, not because they expect some people to stop playing the game, but because they've often given some easier difficulty levels to acclimate players to how the game functions.

#47 Edited by shishkebab09 (98 posts) -

@colorwind: This article was a good read, but I have to completely disagree with the direction Nintendo appears to be going in their game design. NSMB for DS, Wii, 3DS, and WiiU are indeed able to be considered "the same game," but lumping 3D Land and World into that pile is completely false and largely discredits anything else you have to say about the games. 3D World is absolutely fantastic, and if you've already played too much 3D Land, then play World with three friends, and it's an entirely new experience.

Even greater to the point, A Link Between Worlds steps in the opposite direction of your claims as well with a non-linear structure and FAR less tutorialization and explanation. It's the best Zelda since Wind Waker.

#48 Edited by shishkebab09 (98 posts) -

@joshwent said:

I thought after the recent consensus that the new Mario and Zelda are fantastic games, that we could finally stop seeing these, "Nintendo's Doomed! The Wii U has Failed!!" posts, but I guess I have to accept that baseless hyperbole on the internet is with us for good.

My thoughts exactly.

#49 Edited by egg (1450 posts) -

"Nintendo will essentially become the maker of a “my first console” system."

I thought they've been doing that since the Gamecube. o.O

And isn't the WiiU a my first console? Did you SEE the ads? And it has off-TV play... who do you suppose that's for? Certainly not the bachelor who has the TV all to themselves.

#50 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@sergio: Casual player. Recently there was some article about how less people actually finishing games. Mass Effect 2 for example was under 10% of players. A lot of people who buy games do not finish these games so it is very natural to make these compelling games like Mario very easy and turn the difficulty drastically up near the end of the game of for bonus stuff.

@joshwent It is never really about the quality of these games but rather their sales numbers.

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