Just watching Gametrailers Wii U hardware review. Major What-the-Fuck moment. Non-Analog triggers? What's it even a trigger for then?

Cannot wrap my head around it. How're you even supposed to play a driving game? Anything that requires trigger finesse?

That's so infinitely wierd. Is it even true? Please confirm or deny...

Oh you're not supposed to PLAY the Wii U, you're just supposed to buy one.

The GameCube had analog triggers. Just saying.

I don't see the big deal, PS3 has them but all I ever hear is people complaining about it, and PSP and Vita don't have them at all. So yea it would be nice but perhaps they are not essential.

@egg said:

I don't see the big deal, PS3 has them but all I ever hear is people complaining about it, and PSP and Vita don't have them at all. So yea it would be nice but perhaps they are not essential.

Let's say you want to drive a Bugatti Veyron Super Sport in Criterion's Need for Speed Most Wanted. It's impossible to drive that car with binary inputs with any semblance of proficiency. It's all about the analog.

It all depends on what kinds of games you enjoy. I enjoy vehicle-centric games. Need for Speed, Battlefield, GTA. Analog imput is of paramount importance. Analog triggers are the perfect input method for acceleration and braking short of a wheel with pedals. Period.

Many however lack the analog dimension in their gamer's toolbox. Sure, they won't mind, and hence... Nintendo Don't Care!

@egg: Just out of interest, because I've never heard people complain about the PS3 triggers, what are the complaints? I've never had a problem myself.

Not sure its practical/necessary to have them on a handheld.

@egg said:

I don't see the big deal, PS3 has them but all I ever hear is people complaining about it, and PSP and Vita don't have them at all. So yea it would be nice but perhaps they are not essential.

Thats because the PS3 has a junk controller they are great on the 360 for racing games, burst firing in shooters and analog sprint in FIFA. PS3 Triggers just feel to spongey like they are made of marshmellow they don't have the same spring mechanism that is behind the 360 triggers.

Still can't believe how much Nintendo has made a shitty console. It's 2012 and they launch with a System less poweful than a 360\PS3, a terrible CPU and RAM that is so slow in the menus which is unforgivable, No Achievements....would of loved to get one just to be able to S Rank all the Nintendo exclusives for some reasons Achievements really just clicked with me and really got me back into games when I got my 360 and now this terrible controller with no analog triggers and buttons under the right stick is just retarded.

@JoeBigfoot said:

@egg: Just out of interest, because I've never heard people complain about the PS3 triggers, what are the complaints? I've never had a problem myself.

Not sure its practical/necessary to have them on a handheld.

Just the shape. They're less like triggers, more like flaps or something.

@egg: Just out of interest, because I've never heard people complain about the PS3 triggers, what are the complaints? I've never had a problem myself.

Not sure its practical/necessary to have them on a handheld.

People are forgetting the worst thing about this entire situation.

No Trenched 2 for Wii-U.

@MooseyMcMan said:

The GameCube had analog triggers. Just saying.

Shit, you are totally right, back step right there.

@egg said:

I don't see the big deal, PS3 has them but all I ever hear is people complaining about it, and PSP and Vita don't have them at all. So yea it would be nice but perhaps they are not essential.

The PS3 controller design is bad, not the analogue triggers. Not having them at all literally makes certain games impossible to play.

Mario Kart will be fine, but any driving game that requires more finesse is right out now. I hope no one was looking forward to GTA V on the Wii U.

As someone who thinks the WiiU is a waste of time, I think this is a perfectly valid design decision. I've played a lot of racing games with the 360 controller and never got a sense of added value from the analogue triggers. In fact in some games - usually the more serious racers like DiRT - I continue to remap the accelerator to one of the non-analogue buttons on the controller face, since thumb control gives a more responsive feel and your index fingers are better reserved for quick manual gear control. Feathering the accelerator performs more or less the same function as making an analogue input on the trigger. Wanting analogue pad controls for the accelerator is IMO a psychological crutch which doesn't come close to the responsiveness of a pedal. I played GTA IV with keyboard and felt that binary controls were perfect - meanwhile millions play it with a pad and shout that it has the worst car handling of any open world game.

@Laivasse:

People dislike GTA IV's car handling for it's weighty and inertia-heavy driving physics, which is a whole lot closer to realstic than most so called sim racing games. Some say, their cars don't handle that way in real life. Those people just never drove as fast and reckless as they tend to do in GTA IV games.

So it's either kids who never drove a car in their life, or common people and casual gamers, who never drove a car irresponsibly. Inertia is real. Either way, neither are aware of the joys of analog input.

@Seppli said:

@Laivasse:

People dislike GTA IV's car handling for it's weighty and inertia-heavy driving physics, which is a whole lot closer to realstic than most so called sim racing games. Some say, their cars don't handle that way in real life. Those people just never drove as fast and reckless as they tend to do in GTA IV games.

So it's either kids who never drove a car in their life, or common people and casual gamers, who never drove a car irresponsibly. Inertia is real. Either way, neither are aware of the joys of analog input.

I agree with you that GTA IV's physics were great. I never said I was one of the people who struggled with it. I felt like I had perfect control over them with binary controls - simply W, A, S, D and Space on one hand (my clumsier hand, even) and the other hand reserved for aiming. No need for fancy finesse inputs in that game IMO.

@Laivasse: Analogue triggers are essential in Forza 3/4. If you spin out and try to get going again it's impossible to just slam down on the trigger and go because you'll just spin out again. You need to ease on the triggers and slowly build up speed.

@Geurge: I haven't played Forza although I've wanted to. Does that happen even when you're in Manual, downshifted to 1st? That would make it harsher than any of the driving games I've played if so.

The WiiU is a no-go for me for other reasons. I don't think this is a huge issue, but it's bound to cause trouble down the road. I'm not sure exactly why Nintendo would go that route. It's not an expensive feature to add (though I admit that every penny counts on a launch console) and taking it away just irks some people. Still, of all the questionable decisions Nintendo made on the WiiU, this doesn't strike me as all that significant.

@Seppli said:

@Laivasse:

People dislike GTA IV's car handling for it's weighty and inertia-heavy driving physics, which is a whole lot closer to realstic than most so called sim racing games. Some say, their cars don't handle that way in real life. Those people just never drove as fast and reckless as they tend to do in GTA IV games.

So it's either kids who never drove a car in their life, or common people and casual gamers, who never drove a car irresponsibly. Inertia is real. Either way, neither are aware of the joys of analog input.

Or they simply liked the driving in the previous games and don't see what making it "more realistic" offers to the experience.

When I buy a game I try to think which controller (Ps3 or 360) I would prefer to play it with, for Call of duty it was 360 but for Persona 4: Arena is was Ps3.

A good feeling/ working controller is essential for a good game experience IMO.

This sounds pretty shitty for the WiiU owners who care.

@haggis said:

The WiiU is a no-go for me for other reasons. I don't think this is a huge issue, but it's bound to cause trouble down the road. I'm not sure exactly why Nintendo would go that route. It's not an expensive feature to add (though I admit that every penny counts on a launch console) and taking it away just irks some people. Still, of all the questionable decisions Nintendo made on the WiiU, this doesn't strike me as all that significant.

For a company, that's said it's not about processing power, but all about great playing games, the omission of analog triggers and a proper multitouch screen just seems cheap and backwards.

what about the classic controller? doesnt that have analog-style triggers? it's not a perfect solution but maybe one day it will be a pack in with the console bundle, who knows

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

Thats because the PS3 has a junk controller

I love the PS3 controller! =)

@Seppli said:

@haggis said:

The WiiU is a no-go for me for other reasons. I don't think this is a huge issue, but it's bound to cause trouble down the road. I'm not sure exactly why Nintendo would go that route. It's not an expensive feature to add (though I admit that every penny counts on a launch console) and taking it away just irks some people. Still, of all the questionable decisions Nintendo made on the WiiU, this doesn't strike me as all that significant.

For a company, that's said it's not about processing power, but all about great playing games, the omission of analog triggers and a proper multitouch screen just seems cheap and backwards.

As someone that likes playing games and cares little about processing power, I can't say I really give a shit.

Maybe 360 got the triggers right. But PS3 got the bumpers right. I wonder if that was some kind of backroom deal or something.

@Seppli said:

@haggis said:

The WiiU is a no-go for me for other reasons. I don't think this is a huge issue, but it's bound to cause trouble down the road. I'm not sure exactly why Nintendo would go that route. It's not an expensive feature to add (though I admit that every penny counts on a launch console) and taking it away just irks some people. Still, of all the questionable decisions Nintendo made on the WiiU, this doesn't strike me as all that significant.

For a company, that's said it's not about processing power, but all about great playing games, the omission of analog triggers and a proper multitouch screen just seems cheap and backwards.

As someone that likes playing games and cares little about processing power, I can't say I really give a shit.

@Seppli said:

@Laivasse:

People dislike GTA IV's car handling for it's weighty and inertia-heavy driving physics

I didn't like it because it wasn't as fun as any of the prior 3D games. That sums up GTA IV in a nutshell pretty much.

Edit: They also made motorcycles worthless to drive, even after the tweaks to their controls in TLAD.

No you guys it totally makes sense. In 6 months they can release the WiiUPro Controller that will as analogue triggers. It's all part of the plan.

Kinda par for the course here with modern Nintendo. The device could start emitting gamma radiation and I wouldn't be surprised. The extra arm growing out of your back is going to be for the super-pro controller which brings back the three-pronged N64 design.

@Laivasse: Yes, if you are in first in all but the weakest cars and you floor the accelerator, you are going to hopelessly spin the tires. Not to mention braking. Forza wouldn't work at all with binary braking, at least not with the assists off.

You're very late to this meltdown party :D

@jaycrockett said:

@Laivasse: Yes, if you are in first in all but the weakest cars and you floor the accelerator, you are going to hopelessly spin the tires. Not to mention braking. Forza wouldn't work at all with binary braking, at least not with the assists off.

That's interesting and kind of cool. It's a bit academic, though, since I'm not sure if a driving sim with Forza's level of detail has ever been on the cards for the WiiU (could be wrong?). I still maintain that a pad with simple digital inputs could handle a semi-sim like DiRT or GRiD just fine, and a game with arcadey mechanics like like NFS or GTA no problem. I even played through GRiD once with a MadCatz fightpad (ie. no analogue inputs at all, not even an analogue stick), it was still massive fun and no problem to come first in all the challenges on the harder diffs.

But there's still no chance of me getting a WiiU.

@JoeBigfoot:

My problem with the PS3 triggers is that they are really easy to have accidentally pressed when you set down the controller. I almost got into a really nasty fight with the blacksmith in Demons Souls because I had to go take a piss and didn't want to suspend the game. Also they are placed where shoulder buttons should be. I like shoulder buttons but shoulder buttons don't go where triggers go.

Also, wasn't the B button on the Wii also not a trigger? So it sounds like a continuing trend.

EDIT: Also for all you bros who like racing games (I personally do not) you haven't gotten a proper wheel setup yet? Is it not viable or something on consoles? I like fighting games and in under a year I bought a high quality arcade stick (or rather I bought a cheap one then modded it with top-tier parts). Gotta use the input device that suits the game if you want the precision. I just don't think the WiiU necessarily NEEDS triggers. Not that it means they should not.

I love the digital triggers in COD, but any other game with driving might be problematic. I'm mostly concerned for a new F Zero game, but we won't see that for some time. I remember playing Gran Turismo using the right stick to accelerate, and that was fine. That won't work in a GTA game, but we'll see what happens.

The only time I ever hear people complaining about the PS3 triggers is because they feel weird, not because they're not analog...

@Seppli said:

@egg said:

I don't see the big deal, PS3 has them but all I ever hear is people complaining about it, and PSP and Vita don't have them at all. So yea it would be nice but perhaps they are not essential.

Let's say you want to drive a Bugatti Veyron Super Sport in Criterion's Need for Speed Most Wanted. It's impossible to drive that car with binary inputs with any semblance of proficiency. It's all about the analog.

It all depends on what kinds of games you enjoy. I enjoy vehicle-centric games. Need for Speed, Battlefield, GTA. Analog imput is of paramount importance. Analog triggers are the perfect input method for acceleration and braking short of a wheel with pedals. Period.

Many however lack the analog dimension in their gamer's toolbox. Sure, they won't mind, and hence... Nintendo Don't Care!

If you care so much about driving games, buy a racing wheel.

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@egg said:

I don't see the big deal, PS3 has them but all I ever hear is people complaining about it, and PSP and Vita don't have them at all. So yea it would be nice but perhaps they are not essential.

Thats because the PS3 has a junk controller they are great on the 360 for racing games, burst firing in shooters and analog sprint in FIFA. PS3 Triggers just feel to spongey like they are made of marshmellow they don't have the same spring mechanism that is behind the 360 triggers.

Still can't believe how much Nintendo has made a shitty console. It's 2012 and they launch with a System less poweful than a 360\PS3, a terrible CPU and RAM that is so slow in the menus which is unforgivable, No Achievements....would of loved to get one just to be able to S Rank all the Nintendo exclusives for some reasons Achievements really just clicked with me and really got me back into games when I got my 360 and now this terrible controller with no analog triggers and buttons under the right stick is just retarded.

I doubt shooters need/use analog triggers assuming that's not how guns work in real life.

As for achievements, I agree that Nintendo dropped the ball by not adding them.

Regarding the thread, I like racers (they are the best genre) but wheel/pedals are unnecessary and unpractical. I also like the PS3 controller and don't see the problem with it, and 360 controller is overrated.

@egg said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@egg said:

I don't see the big deal, PS3 has them but all I ever hear is people complaining about it, and PSP and Vita don't have them at all. So yea it would be nice but perhaps they are not essential.

Thats because the PS3 has a junk controller they are great on the 360 for racing games, burst firing in shooters and analog sprint in FIFA. PS3 Triggers just feel to spongey like they are made of marshmellow they don't have the same spring mechanism that is behind the 360 triggers.

Still can't believe how much Nintendo has made a shitty console. It's 2012 and they launch with a System less poweful than a 360\PS3, a terrible CPU and RAM that is so slow in the menus which is unforgivable, No Achievements....would of loved to get one just to be able to S Rank all the Nintendo exclusives for some reasons Achievements really just clicked with me and really got me back into games when I got my 360 and now this terrible controller with no analog triggers and buttons under the right stick is just retarded.

I doubt shooters need/use analog triggers assuming that's not how guns work in real life.

As for achievements, I agree that Nintendo dropped the ball by not adding them.

Regarding the thread, I like racers (they are the best genre) but wheel/pedals are unnecessary and unpractical. I also like the PS3 controller and don't see the problem with it, and 360 controller is overrated.

Doesn't matter for games like COD but in Battlefield it's really useful for controlling your recoil.

Yeah it would of been cool having an achievement list for all the Wii exclusives coming out, would of been alot of fun going for the S Rank in Zelda, plus could of had them implemented into Giant Bomb

How is it over rated? Because it won design awards? Because it is the go to controller for PC Games, Because the sticks are positioned where they should be, Sony first designed their controller with the main movement being used by the D-Pad, where you thumb rests naturally, the same position where the 360 movement stick is. When they added the analog you had to move the thumb to a place that didn't feel natural, they never revisioned the controller since the mid 90's and you are telling me this is the best controller, no it's out dated and the Xbox duke set off in the right place with the more natural placement of the sticks that made FPS games playable on a console and revisioned it with the 360 controller that though alot of testing figured out the most natural design, so you hand doesn't get cramp and just felt right and is the reason it won design awards. They just need to add a better D-Pad and adjustable pressure for the sticks that the high end 3rd party controllers have now. And I grew up with the PS1\PS2 controller and with in a day of using a 360 controller it just felt right.

wait does this mean WiiU Pro controller doesn't have analog triggers either?

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@egg said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@egg said:

I don't see the big deal, PS3 has them but all I ever hear is people complaining about it, and PSP and Vita don't have them at all. So yea it would be nice but perhaps they are not essential.

Thats because the PS3 has a junk controller they are great on the 360 for racing games, burst firing in shooters and analog sprint in FIFA. PS3 Triggers just feel to spongey like they are made of marshmellow they don't have the same spring mechanism that is behind the 360 triggers.

Still can't believe how much Nintendo has made a shitty console. It's 2012 and they launch with a System less poweful than a 360\PS3, a terrible CPU and RAM that is so slow in the menus which is unforgivable, No Achievements....would of loved to get one just to be able to S Rank all the Nintendo exclusives for some reasons Achievements really just clicked with me and really got me back into games when I got my 360 and now this terrible controller with no analog triggers and buttons under the right stick is just retarded.

I doubt shooters need/use analog triggers assuming that's not how guns work in real life.

As for achievements, I agree that Nintendo dropped the ball by not adding them.

Regarding the thread, I like racers (they are the best genre) but wheel/pedals are unnecessary and unpractical. I also like the PS3 controller and don't see the problem with it, and 360 controller is overrated.

Doesn't matter for games like COD but in Battlefield it's really useful for controlling your recoil.

Yeah it would of been cool having an achievement list for all the Wii exclusives coming out, would of been alot of fun going for the S Rank in Zelda, plus could of had them implemented into Giant Bomb

How is it over rated? Because it won design awards? Because it is the go to controller for PC Games, Because the sticks are positioned where they should be, Sony first designed their controller with the main movement being used by the D-Pad, where you thumb rests naturally, the same position where the 360 movement stick is. When they added the analog you had to move the thumb to a place that didn't feel natural, they never revisioned the controller since the mid 90's and you are telling me this is the best controller, no it's out dated and the Xbox duke set off in the right place with the more natural placement of the sticks that made FPS games playable on a console and revisioned it with the 360 controller that though alot of testing figured out the most natural design, so you hand doesn't get cramp and just felt right and is the reason it won design awards. They just need to add a better D-Pad and adjustable pressure for the sticks that the high end 3rd party controllers have now. And I grew up with the PS1\PS2 controller and with in a day of using a 360 controller it just felt right.

Why not just tap the button, how is that any different from analog? I'm guessing you're not actually using the analog aspect of the trigger since again that's now how guns work I think.

First party Nintendo titles don't need achievements, it's the third party titles that need them more. In my opinion Nintendo not implementing achievements is them giving the finger to third party games on their own platform.

As for Xbox 360 controller being the go to controller for PC, I thought that has entirely to do with the fact that Microsoft implemented compatibility with it, and the fact that PC games recognize it, and nothing else. If you could game on PC with a controller you already owned, instead of having to buy a new one, then why wouldn't you? Of course you would. As far as I was aware, you cant use a PS3 controller to game on PC. If you could, only then your argument holds water. But if I am wrong and PS3 controller is out of box compatible with PC games, like Xbox 360 controller is, please let me know. (I don't PC game so I can't be too sure)

your "place where thumb didn't feel natural" comment is made irrelevant by the fact that Xbox 360 controller has the righthand control stick in a different place from the lefthand one. If it's natural, then why would only half the controller be designed to feel natural?

PS3 controller is outdated? It is not outdated in the least. Both control sticks are in the same place making this controller the most refined. The reason it hasn't been updated is because the control stick placement is evidently fine the way it is. This is evidenced by Xbox 360 controller - why does the righthand portion of it copy the "unnatural" layout of the PS2/PS3 controller, especially if the controller is designed for FPS/TPS? Aiming doesn't require precise control apparently, you can put that righthand control stick any ol' where according to Microsoft! I find it sloppy and this imho is one of the reasons why PS3 controller is better.

@thedj93 said:

what about the classic controller? doesnt that have analog-style triggers? it's not a perfect solution but maybe one day it will be a pack in with the console bundle, who knows

@egg said:

wait does this mean WiiU Pro controller doesn't have analog triggers either?

Jup, according to IGN's Wii U Pro controller review, the Wii U indeed does lack analog trigger input whatsoever, at least on its two proprietary input devices. Bummer. The system keeps falling lower and lower on my list of priorities. Hell - it might end up like the Wii. I always kinda wanted to play some of its games, but I never made the time for it. There was always other things to play, on my other gaming systems.

Really odd omission. Between the digital-only triggers, the missing head-set jack, the low-fi non-multi-touch-screen and its generally feeble technical specs - Nintendo has cut so many corners. Many of these would make for better games, at least for better controlling games, and altogether new experiences.

They'll really have to woo me with tons of must-have exclusives, because hardware-wise, I'm rather baffled by lots of Nintendo's design decisions. Still a cool concept overall, but damn couldn't they have done it a bit higher tech, or at the very least stick to established standards like the analog triggers?