Patcher: Wii U To Have Weak 3rd Party Support & Cont. Probs

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#1 Posted by mac_n_nina (272 posts) -

"Talking with IndustryGamers, Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities has made a bold prediction about the Wii U. He expects it to have weak third party support, due to its complicated controls.

Pachter believes that Nintendo continues to live in the past, since it has worked for them. However he feels that it will no longer work in 2012. "They had a great deal of success since 1985 by making proprietary hardware and supporting it with proprietary software. They attracted third party support based upon the large installed base they generated for their hardware. They appear to me to be confident that 'if they build it, third parties will support it', but I don’t think that is the case for Wii U."

Pachter continues that Nintendo is trying to be different to remain innovative. However that the tablet controller is complicated and it will turn away third party developers. "By trying to be 'different' with the tablet controller, they have complicated game design for developers, who can’t figure out if the Wii U will ultimately support only one or multiple controllers. Nintendo made the device sufficiently different that they are all but assured of limited third party launch support, which ultimately will lead to modest hardware sales."

Pachter also says that Nintendo needs to seek outside help to get an online service in order to compete against Xbox Live and PSN. "They should stop relying upon the strategy that got them here, as it appears to no longer be working. I think their resolution should be to look outside of Nintendo for leadership in the areas of digital downloads, a user-friendly online interface and multiplayer gaming."

Source

I somewhat agree with him. Nintendo definitely needs to have outside help with their online service and with the rumors of EA and Valve it looks like that is taken care of. His views on third party support make sense. Third parties program on one console and then port the game. If the Wii U tablet makes it hard to do that then third parties will most likely not mess around with it especially since most people buy Nintendo consoles to play Nintendo games so the sales won't be that great to begin with. The only thing is how difficult could it possibly be to program for the tablet?

#2 Posted by selbie (1903 posts) -

Now that motion control has spread across all three consoles, developers will only get better at implementing controls to suit motion. However, I agree that the Wii U could be too "different" and cause some developers to stay away.

I guess Pachter's comments all depend on what MS & Sony show off this year. If they also produce something difficult to develop for then his opinion is moot. He is also assuming that Nintendo won't try to introduce an online system to compete with XBL and PSN. Yeah Nintendo have always been conservative with online functionality, but they have also been pretty fearless when it comes to trying new things.

#3 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Pachter pretty much echoes what I feel about the Wii-U.

He's still annoying though.

#4 Posted by Jolt92 (1551 posts) -

Assumptions!

#5 Posted by Rawrz (590 posts) -

Nintendo having weak 3rd party support, shocking.

#6 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8699 posts) -

I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.

#7 Posted by Arabes (338 posts) -

Today in the news, Pachter states the blindingly obvious and talks about the how the well established problems with Nintendo's strategy in the past, continue to be the problems with Nintendo's strategy of the future. It's a god thing that there are people like him to explain these complex issues to me.

#8 Posted by ImHungry (377 posts) -

So what were the past 5 years then? This coming from a Nintendo fan too.

#9 Posted by Dixavd (1358 posts) -

I disagree:

  • Nintendo have already apporached every developer they sent a WiiU kit to and big companies like EA and Valve (Steam) as to how they would impliment online and what the developers want out of it.
  • Virgil Games have repeated multiple times how easy it was to port games to the WiiU and I remember destinctly them saying it took them an afternoon to get the game working with the Tablet, moving menus over to the touch screen.
  • They have to be different, because every year we get closer and closer to basic cheap computers being able to handle games one a satisfactory level, and when it does no one will buy a console if they can have the same fidelity and games from the computer they already own. The only way for consoles to survive is to offer something that can't be done with a basic computer which is why Microsoft and Sony are trying to add Kinect/Move support into non-casual games to add something to the experience that can't be there simply on a controller or keyboard.
  • Nintendo is also respected throughout the industry and the only reason the Wii had limited thirt party support was with its power and problem with porting games, so now that they are reaching the same level - even if they aren't much higher or "next gen" then they will get huge support. (Remember Nintendo stays on a strict 5 year cycle, and if the most likely rumour occurs of microsoft and sony releasing their next console in late 2013/2014 then the overlap will be the same time as when more games will be coming out for the current consoles than the new ones so they will definitely be getting a huge amount of games then as developers port games that maybe didn't sell so well on the 360/PS3 (since the PS4/720 will be out) can be moved to the WiiU which would be able to handle them and have a loyal fanbase which Nintendo always has.
  • Plus this tablet will be fantastic for smaller developers and ones up-until-now focus solely on phones and single-tablets, allowing them to take what they now to a system which can handle much more depth. And unlike motion controls, touch screen controls are much easier to develop for from an indie perspective.

I may not have written it very well/been very concise since I am currently doing this while getting ready in the morning but basicly these are my points, and trying to persuade Nintendo to go away from this and go like other developers will lower innovation in the entire industry and make the demise of console gaming even quicker. We also have to realise people want some new innovation/reason for developers to try something new instead of thinking, "just wait for the next console for a new IP", and WiiU will allow them to try something new on current console specs and know there is a player base they can put it on if Sony and Microsoft release a new console.

Ultimately, I think it is much worse for console gaming and the enire industry that Microsoft/Sony is being very vague about the set release or unveiling of a new console, since it is emphasising the caution from developers to try something new on current consoles.

Just my thoughts though.

#10 Posted by myketuna (1697 posts) -

@Dixavd said:

I disagree:

  • Nintendo have already apporached every developer they sent a WiiU kit to and big companies like EA and Valve (Steam) as to how they would impliment online and what the developers want out of it.
  • Virgil Games have repeated multiple times how easy it was to port games to the WiiU and I remember destinctly them saying it took them an afternoon to get the game working with the Tablet, moving menus over to the touch screen.
  • They have to be different, because every year we get closer and closer to basic cheap computers being able to handle games one a satisfactory level, and when it does no one will buy a console if they can have the same fidelity and games from the computer they already own. The only way for consoles to survive is to offer something that can't be done with a basic computer which is why Microsoft and Sony are trying to add Kinect/Move support into non-casual games to add something to the experience that can't be there simply on a controller or keyboard.
  • Nintendo is also respected throughout the industry and the only reason the Wii had limited thirt party support was with its power and problem with porting games, so now that they are reaching the same level - even if they aren't much higher or "next gen" then they will get huge support. (Remember Nintendo stays on a strict 5 year cycle, and if the most likely rumour occurs of microsoft and sony releasing their next console in late 2013/2014 then the overlap will be the same time as when more games will be coming out for the current consoles than the new ones so they will definitely be getting a huge amount of games then as developers port games that maybe didn't sell so well on the 360/PS3 (since the PS4/720 will be out) can be moved to the WiiU which would be able to handle them and have a loyal fanbase which Nintendo always has.
  • Plus this tablet will be fantastic for smaller developers and ones up-until-now focus solely on phones and single-tablets, allowing them to take what they now to a system which can handle much more depth. And unlike motion controls, touch screen controls are much easier to develop for from an indie perspective.

I may not have written it very well/been very concise since I am currently doing this while getting ready in the morning but basicly these are my points, and trying to persuade Nintendo to go away from this and go like other developers will lower innovation in the entire industry and make the demise of console gaming even quicker. We also have to realise people want some new innovation/reason for developers to try something new instead of thinking, "just wait for the next console for a new IP", and WiiU will allow them to try something new on current console specs and know there is a player base they can put it on if Sony and Microsoft release a new console.

Ultimately, I think it is much worse for console gaming and the enire industry that Microsoft/Sony is being very vague about the set release or unveiling of a new console, since it is emphasising the caution from developers to try something new on current consoles.

Just my thoughts though.

I disagree.

And "demise of console gaming"? ...What?

#11 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.

Sign me up!

#12 Edited by StrainedEyes (1324 posts) -

I think their bigger problem is that all the good 3rd parties will move on to the more powerful consoles once the true next gen starts (Sony/Microsoft), and Nintendo will again be stuck getting ported down versions of modern games. That's what happens when you decide to release a system that is on par with 6 year old technology.

#13 Posted by Jimbo (9812 posts) -

I think everybody at Nintendo just breathed a sigh of relief. Strong third party support and no control issues at all: confirmed!

Online
#14 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3782 posts) -

@myketuna said:

@Dixavd said:

I disagree:

  • Nintendo have already apporached every developer they sent a WiiU kit to and big companies like EA and Valve (Steam) as to how they would impliment online and what the developers want out of it.
  • Virgil Games have repeated multiple times how easy it was to port games to the WiiU and I remember destinctly them saying it took them an afternoon to get the game working with the Tablet, moving menus over to the touch screen.
  • They have to be different, because every year we get closer and closer to basic cheap computers being able to handle games one a satisfactory level, and when it does no one will buy a console if they can have the same fidelity and games from the computer they already own. The only way for consoles to survive is to offer something that can't be done with a basic computer which is why Microsoft and Sony are trying to add Kinect/Move support into non-casual games to add something to the experience that can't be there simply on a controller or keyboard.
  • Nintendo is also respected throughout the industry and the only reason the Wii had limited thirt party support was with its power and problem with porting games, so now that they are reaching the same level - even if they aren't much higher or "next gen" then they will get huge support. (Remember Nintendo stays on a strict 5 year cycle, and if the most likely rumour occurs of microsoft and sony releasing their next console in late 2013/2014 then the overlap will be the same time as when more games will be coming out for the current consoles than the new ones so they will definitely be getting a huge amount of games then as developers port games that maybe didn't sell so well on the 360/PS3 (since the PS4/720 will be out) can be moved to the WiiU which would be able to handle them and have a loyal fanbase which Nintendo always has.
  • Plus this tablet will be fantastic for smaller developers and ones up-until-now focus solely on phones and single-tablets, allowing them to take what they now to a system which can handle much more depth. And unlike motion controls, touch screen controls are much easier to develop for from an indie perspective.

I may not have written it very well/been very concise since I am currently doing this while getting ready in the morning but basicly these are my points, and trying to persuade Nintendo to go away from this and go like other developers will lower innovation in the entire industry and make the demise of console gaming even quicker. We also have to realise people want some new innovation/reason for developers to try something new instead of thinking, "just wait for the next console for a new IP", and WiiU will allow them to try something new on current console specs and know there is a player base they can put it on if Sony and Microsoft release a new console.

Ultimately, I think it is much worse for console gaming and the enire industry that Microsoft/Sony is being very vague about the set release or unveiling of a new console, since it is emphasising the caution from developers to try something new on current consoles.

Just my thoughts though.

I disagree.

And "demise of console gaming"? ...What?

Yeah, the vast majority of console gamers will simply never do the main thrust of their gaming on a PC... ever.

#15 Posted by Dixavd (1358 posts) -

@Wrighteous86 said:

@myketuna said:

@Dixavd said:

I disagree:

  • Nintendo have already apporached every developer they sent a WiiU kit to and big companies like EA and Valve (Steam) as to how they would impliment online and what the developers want out of it.
  • Virgil Games have repeated multiple times how easy it was to port games to the WiiU and I remember destinctly them saying it took them an afternoon to get the game working with the Tablet, moving menus over to the touch screen.
  • They have to be different, because every year we get closer and closer to basic cheap computers being able to handle games one a satisfactory level, and when it does no one will buy a console if they can have the same fidelity and games from the computer they already own. The only way for consoles to survive is to offer something that can't be done with a basic computer which is why Microsoft and Sony are trying to add Kinect/Move support into non-casual games to add something to the experience that can't be there simply on a controller or keyboard.
  • Nintendo is also respected throughout the industry and the only reason the Wii had limited thirt party support was with its power and problem with porting games, so now that they are reaching the same level - even if they aren't much higher or "next gen" then they will get huge support. (Remember Nintendo stays on a strict 5 year cycle, and if the most likely rumour occurs of microsoft and sony releasing their next console in late 2013/2014 then the overlap will be the same time as when more games will be coming out for the current consoles than the new ones so they will definitely be getting a huge amount of games then as developers port games that maybe didn't sell so well on the 360/PS3 (since the PS4/720 will be out) can be moved to the WiiU which would be able to handle them and have a loyal fanbase which Nintendo always has.
  • Plus this tablet will be fantastic for smaller developers and ones up-until-now focus solely on phones and single-tablets, allowing them to take what they now to a system which can handle much more depth. And unlike motion controls, touch screen controls are much easier to develop for from an indie perspective.

I may not have written it very well/been very concise since I am currently doing this while getting ready in the morning but basicly these are my points, and trying to persuade Nintendo to go away from this and go like other developers will lower innovation in the entire industry and make the demise of console gaming even quicker. We also have to realise people want some new innovation/reason for developers to try something new instead of thinking, "just wait for the next console for a new IP", and WiiU will allow them to try something new on current console specs and know there is a player base they can put it on if Sony and Microsoft release a new console.

Ultimately, I think it is much worse for console gaming and the enire industry that Microsoft/Sony is being very vague about the set release or unveiling of a new console, since it is emphasising the caution from developers to try something new on current consoles.

Just my thoughts though.

I disagree.

And "demise of console gaming"? ...What?

Yeah, the vast majority of console gamers will simply never do the main thrust of their gaming on a PC... ever.

So when basic PC's are equal in power, fidelity and game support... When they can do more, are easier for people to access and everyone owns one. When they have cheaper games and more of a variety of titles from support of AAA and indie titles... you think people will spend more on a console that does less for gaming? To argue that is plain idiotic, the majority of people (as in the public, not people who are really into it like us, but just peopel who play them for fun) are ok with the graphical capabilities and games on current consoles and this will increase with every next gen as the difference between consoles will be less and less but the cost will by higher and higher... obviously it will never happen that people just don't spend money on something they don't want and isntead play games on their PC's?!

It happened with Arcades, people said: "no one will want to spend over a £100 on something in their own house with less multiplayer support [at the time] and ports of games" and that happened. This time PC's are in an even better position as consoles were as people already own them.

The only way to stop it from happening is by offering something better on consoles, which right now is exclusives and motion controls. But developers won't make exclusives on consoles when they have a wider market online where games sell for years after they are released rather than quickly going to pre-owned on console and lose developers millions of possible revenue. This then leaves the motion controls or basically a gameplay experience only on console - this is the thing that the WiiU is doing with the tablet and which is why the 3DS is selling amazingly even though most people are satisfies with iOS gaming which is getting better and better every year.

To argue that people will simply never move away from consoles when on consoles: the cost will be higher, developers profitablity will be smaller, the online experience will be weaker, the capabilities of them for making games will be at-most equal, their will be less versitile and harder to fix; is absurd. I currently only play games on consoles but I know that we are reaching a point where everyone is satisified with the current graphical capabilities so people won't want a next gen and PC's will then catch up in value-for-money.

#16 Posted by sanchopanza (247 posts) -

@Dixavd: Did the illuminati lizard people tell you all of that? All you have to do is look at sales over the last year, that will tell you all you need to know about consoles v PCs over the last year. Hell, even FPS games are way more popular on consoles, who would have guessed.

Nerds need to put down their Nintendo glasses, that company is struggling and have made some real bad decisions. It would be sad, as they are an institution at this point, but no one is too big to fail in a competitive gaming market, and it is possible that Microsoft and Sony will choke nintendo out.

#17 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3782 posts) -

@Dixavd said:

@Wrighteous86 said:

@myketuna said:

@Dixavd said:

I disagree:

  • Nintendo have already apporached every developer they sent a WiiU kit to and big companies like EA and Valve (Steam) as to how they would impliment online and what the developers want out of it.
  • Virgil Games have repeated multiple times how easy it was to port games to the WiiU and I remember destinctly them saying it took them an afternoon to get the game working with the Tablet, moving menus over to the touch screen.
  • They have to be different, because every year we get closer and closer to basic cheap computers being able to handle games one a satisfactory level, and when it does no one will buy a console if they can have the same fidelity and games from the computer they already own. The only way for consoles to survive is to offer something that can't be done with a basic computer which is why Microsoft and Sony are trying to add Kinect/Move support into non-casual games to add something to the experience that can't be there simply on a controller or keyboard.
  • Nintendo is also respected throughout the industry and the only reason the Wii had limited thirt party support was with its power and problem with porting games, so now that they are reaching the same level - even if they aren't much higher or "next gen" then they will get huge support. (Remember Nintendo stays on a strict 5 year cycle, and if the most likely rumour occurs of microsoft and sony releasing their next console in late 2013/2014 then the overlap will be the same time as when more games will be coming out for the current consoles than the new ones so they will definitely be getting a huge amount of games then as developers port games that maybe didn't sell so well on the 360/PS3 (since the PS4/720 will be out) can be moved to the WiiU which would be able to handle them and have a loyal fanbase which Nintendo always has.
  • Plus this tablet will be fantastic for smaller developers and ones up-until-now focus solely on phones and single-tablets, allowing them to take what they now to a system which can handle much more depth. And unlike motion controls, touch screen controls are much easier to develop for from an indie perspective.

I may not have written it very well/been very concise since I am currently doing this while getting ready in the morning but basicly these are my points, and trying to persuade Nintendo to go away from this and go like other developers will lower innovation in the entire industry and make the demise of console gaming even quicker. We also have to realise people want some new innovation/reason for developers to try something new instead of thinking, "just wait for the next console for a new IP", and WiiU will allow them to try something new on current console specs and know there is a player base they can put it on if Sony and Microsoft release a new console.

Ultimately, I think it is much worse for console gaming and the enire industry that Microsoft/Sony is being very vague about the set release or unveiling of a new console, since it is emphasising the caution from developers to try something new on current consoles.

Just my thoughts though.

I disagree.

And "demise of console gaming"? ...What?

Yeah, the vast majority of console gamers will simply never do the main thrust of their gaming on a PC... ever.

So when basic PC's are equal in power, fidelity and game support... When they can do more, are easier for people to access and everyone owns one. When they have cheaper games and more of a variety of titles from support of AAA and indie titles... you think people will spend more on a console that does less for gaming? To argue that is plain idiotic, the majority of people (as in the public, not people who are really into it like us, but just peopel who play them for fun) are ok with the graphical capabilities and games on current consoles and this will increase with every next gen as the difference between consoles will be less and less but the cost will by higher and higher... obviously it will never happen that people just don't spend money on something they don't want and isntead play games on their PC's?!

It happened with Arcades, people said: "no one will want to spend over a £100 on something in their own house with less multiplayer support [at the time] and ports of games" and that happened. This time PC's are in an even better position as consoles were as people already own them.

The only way to stop it from happening is by offering something better on consoles, which right now is exclusives and motion controls. But developers won't make exclusives on consoles when they have a wider market online where games sell for years after they are released rather than quickly going to pre-owned on console and lose developers millions of possible revenue. This then leaves the motion controls or basically a gameplay experience only on console - this is the thing that the WiiU is doing with the tablet and which is why the 3DS is selling amazingly even though most people are satisfies with iOS gaming which is getting better and better every year.

To argue that people will simply never move away from consoles when on consoles: the cost will be higher, developers profitablity will be smaller, the online experience will be weaker, the capabilities of them for making games will be at-most equal, their will be less versitile and harder to fix; is absurd. I currently only play games on consoles but I know that we are reaching a point where everyone is satisified with the current graphical capabilities so people won't want a next gen and PC's will then catch up in value-for-money.

All of your points in favor of a PC-only future have been true for like 20 years, and the PC games market (aside from net-games/facebook games) is SHRINKING, not growing. The top industry developers are focusing on consoles, not PCs.

You want a bold prediction? Desktop PCs will become less and less relevant in general. People won't have desktops in 15 years. They'll have speedy little laptops, tablets, and smartphones. Gaming will be on those things, as well as on consoles. That's much, much more likely.

#18 Posted by Imsorrymsjackson (855 posts) -

The Wii-U will sell millions of units but wont be any good regardless. It will just consist of a release line up dragging out all of their old classics like Mario Kart and Zelda along with a lot of shitty party games. That controller is begging to be broken by smaller children as well. Nintendo need to go the way of Sega and just make games.

#19 Posted by GS_Dan (1403 posts) -
@Sooty

Pachter pretty much echoes what I feel about the Wii-U.

He's still annoying though.

#20 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@sanchopanza said:

but no one is too big to fail in a competitive gaming market

Nintendo is.

¥11 trillion revenue in 2011, quite impressive as that is pretty much solely from gaming products. They would have to make many more mistakes over the next decade to come close to closure, the 3DS might not be quite a hit yet but it will be in the near future, it's going to be a huge cash cow when more games start flooding in, not as much as the DS was but it's still going to sell a ton.

@Wrighteous86 said:

All of your points in favor of a PC-only future have been true for like 20 years, and the PC games market (aside from net-games/facebook games) is SHRINKING, not growing. The top industry developers are focusing on consoles, not PCs.

PC games market is shrinking? Steam just posted recently that they sold more this year than any year before. How about that...

and no not really, there's decent support by 'top' developers, depending what your opinion of 'top' is, to me that screams Valve, who have been putting PC first for a long time. Don't you dare bring people like Carmack into this as a top developer, that man hasn't made a good game since Quake III 12(13, 14?) years ago.

#21 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

Given that this is the first time that Nintendo has shown ANY interest in courting third parties since the NES came out, I think that Mikey may be talking out of his ass.

#22 Posted by Cameron (600 posts) -

I'm pretty sure that every console generation Nintendo swears they will have third-party support and then about a year after launch it's all gone. It was alright on the N64, it was terrible on the Gamecube, and it was perhaps even worse on the Wii (unless you really like party and dance games). Michael Pachter is probably right about that at least. I'm not sure about the other part. The Wii had pretty terrible support and was not port friendly and yet millions of people bought that thing. The people who bought most of those Wiis might not want a new console, but who knows, maybe Wii-U Bowling can convince them.

#23 Posted by sanchopanza (247 posts) -

@Sooty said:

@sanchopanza said:

but no one is too big to fail in a competitive gaming market

Nintendo is.

¥11 trillion revenue in 2011, quite impressive as that is pretty much solely from gaming products.

What is impressive is that you just pulled that straight out of your ass. Might want to check your figures, their total assets don't even come close to that, let alone revenue. Profits have been tumbling for the last few years, they made a net loss of almost $ billion in the first half of 2011 and Nintendo themselves have predicted a loss (for the first time in 30 years mind) of about 20 bn yen to april ( $260+ mil).

#24 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2687 posts) -

@ImHungry said:

So what were the past 5 years then? This coming from a Nintendo fan too.

Exactly this. Weak third party support. The past supports his theory.

#25 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

Cont Probs = Wii Gynecology game

#26 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.
You can probably make a lot more money hosting silly Spike TV shows while wearing a bucket of lipstick. Not everyone here has that advantage!
#27 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@sanchopanza said:

@Sooty said:

@sanchopanza said:

but no one is too big to fail in a competitive gaming market

Nintendo is.

¥11 trillion revenue in 2011, quite impressive as that is pretty much solely from gaming products.

What is impressive is that you just pulled that straight out of your ass. Might want to check your figures, their total assets don't even come close to that, let alone revenue. Profits have been tumbling for the last few years, they made a net loss of almost $ billion in the first half of 2011 and Nintendo themselves have predicted a loss (for the first time in 30 years mind) of about 20 bn yen to april ( $260+ mil).

Actually I got it off Wikipedia and for some reason an extra 1 was added after I pasted it in here, it was formatted as a list and after I removed it I didn't notice the number left in.

Cool your jets, son.

#28 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8699 posts) -
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.
You can probably make a lot more money hosting silly Spike TV shows while wearing a bucket of lipstick. Not everyone here has that advantage!
Not sure I would call it an advantage.
Think I rather shoot myself then live through that mess.
#29 Posted by Daneian (1229 posts) -

@Wrighteous86 said:

Yeah, the vast majority of console gamers will simply never do the main thrust of their gaming on a PC... ever.

Especially when lite and ultra lite laptops and the tablet market are further stratifying high end PC's to become more niche and several manufacturers were seriously rethinking their place in the market.

#30 Posted by Dixavd (1358 posts) -

@Wrighteous86:

It hasn't been true for 20 years and if you think it is then you don't understand electronics. My arguement is not that PC's TODAY are the cheaper and better option but that eventually it is an inevitable truth. We are reaching the limits on how much people are willing to spend to get new hardware for games, every generation their impact gets smaller at each unveiling. We are wuickly reaching the point where we are happy with how games are and can be on hardware and then PC's will quickly overcome as these types of specs will become cheaper and cheaper and soon a basic computer will equal the same as the consoles and they will die.

Not today, today you need to build a specially designed computer to play games at its highest fidelity but basic computers today can play 3 year old titles and once we reach our limit (which we will) then a couple years after that the entry-level computers will be able to handle them and htat is when they are better. Did I ever say it was happening now? No, I simply said Nintendo was correct in thinking out of the box now to get ready for it. We have 2 possibly 3 new generations before consoles will cease-to-be the main way most people play videogames. In fact machines built solely for gaming - consoles - will become what PC gaming is today.

Also PC gaming is the fastest growing sector of gaming, even faster than mobile game - look it up.

Also did I say it was limited to desktop computers? Because I clearly meant (and wrote a disclaimer saying I was rushing my writing as I headed out) that his included phones, tablets, laptops, computer TVs, etc...and they will all be how people play games rather than consoles. Saying that consoles are the big way to play games now is irrelevant to this discussion as of course they are - today they are the cheaper, more profitable, easier to manage and with the higher player base. Does that mean they will be there forever? Hell no. Did the fact more people like the sound of normal pianos stop the creations of electric ones? Did the fact that most people didn't even think about doing more than call and text on their mobiles stop anyone from buying smart phones? Did the fact that computers were almost solely used for intense high-level work stop companies like Apple or Microsoft from getting them to almost everyone on the planet for everyday use? No none of these happened because once the hard-ware was cheap enough the the public moved to the superior for price products.

Consoles will die, eventually they will be an inferior investment - deal with it. At least Nintendo is trying something to keep themselves in business - just like Microsoft and Sony are doing with the Kinect and Move, and just like why the 3DS is selling massively over the Vita in Japan - because all of them are trying to keep themselves in business with a service that offers something to customers who would otherwise move on.

I am done with this topic - I can't believe this was full of nostalgic, irrational and blinded-by-the-present people; I am seriously dissappointed by the couple of people who reacted so harshly but without any good com backs other than "but consoles sell huge, and PC gaming is for nerds, rargh rargh anything that isn't on the console is bad". I know I am generalising like an asshole but seriously arguing Consoles are an impenitrable force that will be here forever is the most weakly researched arguement I have ever heard.

#31 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.
You can probably make a lot more money hosting silly Spike TV shows while wearing a bucket of lipstick. Not everyone here has that advantage!
Not sure I would call it an advantage. Think I rather shoot myself then live through that mess.
Come on tal, you know you wanna put on a dress and smile to the camera while you read twitter messages.
#32 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -

well it'll have massive 3rd party support....for like a year just like the wii did.

#33 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8699 posts) -
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.
You can probably make a lot more money hosting silly Spike TV shows while wearing a bucket of lipstick. Not everyone here has that advantage!
Not sure I would call it an advantage. Think I rather shoot myself then live through that mess.
Come on tal, you know you wanna put on a dress and smile to the camera while you read twitter messages.
As long as it's not for Spike, I'd consider it!
I rather be the one writing their script, making good money of silly gamer jokes.
#34 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

The N64 had lousy 3rd party support as did the Gamecube. The Wii was/is a dumping ground for third party shovelware. I expect no change for the Wii U.

#35 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.
You can probably make a lot more money hosting silly Spike TV shows while wearing a bucket of lipstick. Not everyone here has that advantage!
Not sure I would call it an advantage. Think I rather shoot myself then live through that mess.
Come on tal, you know you wanna put on a dress and smile to the camera while you read twitter messages.
As long as it's not for Spike, I'd consider it! I rather be the one writing their script, making good money of silly gamer jokes.
The dutch accent would totally sell people on that idea.
#36 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8699 posts) -
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.
You can probably make a lot more money hosting silly Spike TV shows while wearing a bucket of lipstick. Not everyone here has that advantage!
Not sure I would call it an advantage. Think I rather shoot myself then live through that mess.
Come on tal, you know you wanna put on a dress and smile to the camera while you read twitter messages.
As long as it's not for Spike, I'd consider it! I rather be the one writing their script, making good money of silly gamer jokes.
The dutch accent would totally sell people on that idea.
Make it happen, I'm in the mood to rake in cash.
#37 Posted by mac_n_nina (272 posts) -

I've been reading some of these comments and you guys do realize that the graphics an hardware leap won't be as big as it was last gen. PS4 won't completely blow PS3 out of the water. Also Sony is in huge financial trouble so there is no way they will take losses on a console again and I also read somewhere that MS said XBOX3 will be cheaper than 360 when it came out so that puts it in Wii U price range. I think Wii U will be fine and that it will shit all over the competition like Wii did.

#38 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -

The downfall of the Wii-U is that goofy tablet controller. No one is going to want to a game on that thing when they can already play it on the system they own with the controller they like.
They are going to have Arkham City on the Wii-U. 
1. Who wants it that does not already have it.
2. By the time the Wii-u comes out it'll be 20 bucks or cheaper on the 360/PS3. Not the likely 50 or 60 bucks on the Wii-U.
3. Who wants to play that game on that goofy tablet controller. it would be like playing it with one of the PSO keyboard controllers for the dreamcast that were like two feet long.
 
Both Microsoft and Sony send out press releases the day after the Wii-U was announced. They both basically said "Hey We were worried about this new nintendo console...until we saw it. It's a compete joke and we are in absolutely no hurry to rush our next console out." 

#39 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
@AhmadMetallic said:
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.
You can probably make a lot more money hosting silly Spike TV shows while wearing a bucket of lipstick. Not everyone here has that advantage!
Not sure I would call it an advantage. Think I rather shoot myself then live through that mess.
Come on tal, you know you wanna put on a dress and smile to the camera while you read twitter messages.
As long as it's not for Spike, I'd consider it! I rather be the one writing their script, making good money of silly gamer jokes.
The dutch accent would totally sell people on that idea.
Make it happen, I'm in the mood to rake in cash.
Sounds like you.
#40 Posted by sanchopanza (247 posts) -

@Sooty said:

@sanchopanza said:

@Sooty said:

@sanchopanza said:

but no one is too big to fail in a competitive gaming market

Nintendo is.

¥11 trillion revenue in 2011, quite impressive as that is pretty much solely from gaming products.

What is impressive is that you just pulled that straight out of your ass. Might want to check your figures, their total assets don't even come close to that, let alone revenue. Profits have been tumbling for the last few years, they made a net loss of almost $ billion in the first half of 2011 and Nintendo themselves have predicted a loss (for the first time in 30 years mind) of about 20 bn yen to april ( $260+ mil).

Actually I got it off Wikipedia and for some reason an extra 1 was added after I pasted it in here, it was formatted as a list and after I removed it I didn't notice the number left in.

Cool your jets, son.

Ahh wikipedia, that bastion of knowledge and accurate information. You should probably be made aware that revenue ≠ profit, and you should also probably refrain from making arguments where you don't understand the information or what you are arguing about.

#41 Edited by mac_n_nina (272 posts) -

I have never seen so much blind Nintendo hate in my life. I personally think they will be fine. 3DS is up and selling and is selling better than DS did at this time in it's life cycle and Wii U will build upon the 90+ million install base of Wii. What's more impressive and I'm surprised that no one is mentioning it is that Mario Kart Wii sold close to 32million copies worldwide, New Super Mario Bros. Wii sold 24million, Wii Play sold about 29 million copies, and Wii Sports Resort sold close to 31million copies. No game on PS3 or 360 has come close to that not even Call of Duty which comes out on every single console including PC. I feel like if anyone should be scared it's MS with their nonexistent first party games. All I see on this board is blah blah blah Wii sucked blah blah blah, but when I look at the numbers all I see is $$$$$$$$$$$ for Nintendo. HAHA some of you guys are straight up idiots who have no idea what they are saying.

Then there is the guy who is talking about how this is the FIRST year Nintendo posted a loss well guess what bro Microsoft posted a loss with XBOX every single year up until about a year ago and even then their profit was only 146million. You guys are lucky that MS has virtually unlimited funds because they would have went out of business with the first XBOX.

#42 Posted by morrelloman (608 posts) -

@TaliciaDragonsong: Get 5 degrees first. Then you can make silly predictions for money.

#43 Posted by Dalai (7030 posts) -

Pachter is probably right, but a Nintendo console's success almost solely depends on Nintendo software selling. If Nintendo can get 3rd party support and an online structure on par with Microsoft and Sony, they're unstoppable. History shows that's unlikely, but we won't know until Nintendo actually tells us something about the Wii U other than that it's a supersized DS.

#44 Posted by ShaneDev (1696 posts) -

I think the only thing worrying would be what the online service is like. If it is not a single unified service like PSN and XBL then that is a major failing on Nintendos part.

I think third party developers would support this if its on the same graphical level as the Xbox and PS3 and the hardware is similar to either. The tablet controller is just like any other controller but with a screen in it. The question is will anyone support the actual controller more than will anyone support the console. The only way a company like EA wouldn't support this thing is if Nintendo comes along in two years with a brand new console that is a major leap forward, and leaves this behind. As for the controller I would imagine that when porting over a game to the Wii-U using the screen in anyway would be a pretty trivial thing to do, even just using it as a map, inventory or different camera angle, no different from MS paying people to use Kinect. I am sure Nintendo has the API all there and ready to go.

As long as this thing is comparable to an Xbox or PS3 in the hardware department it will get third party support it might not be spectator but I doubt it will fail either. It's really the online service that people should be worrying about.

#45 Posted by Tackchevy (264 posts) -

While Pachter's bit has a negative tone, it isn't necessarily a negative commentary on Nintendo or their projected future with Wii-U. People often draw logical comparisons between Apple and Nintendo because both companies do what they want, how they want, and they often get by on design and features while trotting out technology that is well below cutting edge. Another comparative point is that both companies absolutely print money.

Consumers in this console cycle gave Nintendo no reason to fundamentally change their philosophies. Granted, they've been through some struggles and will make some full faith efforts to catch up or innovate in the online interface, digital purchases, and console spec areas, but they will do their own thing and prosper by it. Nintendo doesn't want their console to blend in and share in all multi console releases if it ultimately sells out their uniqueness; the technology rat race is just not one that they want to run.

Many people will think that Nintendo and its products suck, are childish, etc. The difference between Nintendo and others is that they know their market and don't try to be everything to everybody and the best at everything. Consumers often have an egocentric perspective; if you don't like a product, then you're probably just not the target market. I admire the company for sticking to their system through changing times, and suspect that they'll continue to accomplish the corporate objective of making tons of money for years to come, even if it's not in the ways that most people necessary want or expect.

#46 Posted by WarlockEngineerMoreDakka (432 posts) -

Wait wait wait-

Michael Pachter

You're taking this guy seriously? O_O

@Jimbo said:

I think everybody at Nintendo just breathed a sigh of relief. Strong third party support and no control issues at all: confirmed!

Pretty much this if you're taking Pachter this seriously. :P

Cause more often than not he's completely off the mark with his 'predictions'.

.....

In all seriousness though, we already know Nintendo is at least trying to get better 3rd party support this generation. It is yet to be seen if anything competent comes from these efforts though.

I do not see the Wii U being as good in hardware sales as the Wii though- unless Nintendo finds a way to bring the casuals back.

#47 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8699 posts) -
@morrelloman said:

@TaliciaDragonsong: Get 5 degrees first. Then you can make silly predictions for money.

No thanks, I'm happy doing predictions for the degree-less :D
#48 Posted by wolf_blitzer85 (5256 posts) -

@GetEveryone said:

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.

Sign me up!

We just need to find a couple of billionaires to believe us. Plus we need slacks. Lots of slacks. Suspenders for when we're super serious.

#49 Posted by MikkaQ (10288 posts) -

I think another problem with nintendo's policy of just making game machines will bite it in the ass more than anything in the future.

People are getting attracted to the 360 and PS3 not only for the games but because the support for media is strong. They can stream movies, music etc. to a home theatre and are thus a great all-in-one replacement for DVD players and streaming boxes like Roku or Apple TV. I think people are looking to consolidate their media devices in the living room and the consoles tend to make it easier. That's something nintendo barely does, and doesn't have the infrastructure to do right. It'll seem more like a joke than anything, but I bet nintendo doesn't include DVD playing functionality out of pure spite.

#50 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8699 posts) -
@wolf_blitzer85 said:

@GetEveryone said:

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

I wanna make money by doing silly predictions too.

Sign me up!

We just need to find a couple of billionaires to believe us. Plus we need slacks. Lots of slacks. Suspenders for when we're super serious.

I'm sure I still have my prom dress somewhere...

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