The Wii U is the antithesis of the Wii

#1 Edited by TheAdmin (711 posts) -

The Nintendo Wii has always been about getting more of the family involved in gaming. Rather then seeing it as something they can't join in on, Wii has allowed Mom, Suzy, Grandma, Dad, etc to quickly learn how to play and play along. The Wii U directly goes against this message, almost to the point of being like a "F U casual audience". Let's think about the initial promo video they showed for it.

Wii U Promo Intro:

Dad comes in the room, says "hey, I'd like to watch some baseball". Son says "OK". The TV is switched over and he continues on playing on the controller. By himself.

Imagine the same promo intro for the Wii:

Dad comes in the room, says "hey, what are you playing?" Son says: "It's Super Mario Bros Mii - come play with me". Dad grabs a wiimote and joins in the game. Everyone is playing together!

It's clear right from the start that they're done trying to get everyone playing together. I think Nintendo has realized that the initial casual audience that they went after with the Wii just doesn't buy anymore software or hardware. Now Nintendo wants those "core" gamers back to make up for them losing them with the Wii system. They're essentially saying with this system, especially since you can only use ONE Wii U controller, that it's not about "we" anymore, but "you, the core" - but they hope that they can retain the casual audience.

#2 Posted by Mowgers (378 posts) -

Well... it seems as though multiple people can still play on it using Wii remotes... and the tech demo/ 'experiences' on show demonstrated asymmetrical co-op using the controller and separate wii remotes, the sort of co-op which is already in a bunch of Wii games. I'm not saying you're off the mark by suggesting it's been promoted initially to appeal to the 'hardcore' (fucking hate that word) but suggesting that the message presented at an event for the enthusiast press is the be all and end all of it's appeal is likely very short sighted. Of course they're going to stress the console's viability for more interested gamers. That's who follows E3 coverage. Not people's grandparents. Wait for more concrete details to come out, like price, launch line-up, release date etc. You can bet your ass you'll see ads of families gathered around that thing, flailing away and laughing and shit. The fact it still uses all those Wii peripherals means it'd be stupid not to flog it to anyone, regardless of demographic, who already owns a Wii.

Online
#3 Posted by Grumbel (910 posts) -

The most baffling problem I see in the Wii U is that it quite literally offers nothing new to the casual crowd, absolutely fucking nothing. Given that it was that crowd that bought Wiis and drove sales I really don't see how the Wii U would work. I mean yeah, I kind of like the new controller, its a little ridiculous looking, but so what, you could make new interesting games with it, games that attract the hardcore crowd, but what exactly where they thinking when they stopped at that? That the casual crowd is going to buy another Wii that still has the same controller as five years ago? There is now standard motion plus, but that's more a nice addition then a fundamental game changer.
 
Wii was successful because it had the word of mouth, it was on TV a lot and got around, can anybody imagine the screen-controller being shown around the same way? Very much doubt it.
 
It looks like Nintendo is trying to grab the hardcore crowd, while doing nothing for the casuals and even their hardcore offering looks totally lame. New controller, fine, but games? Games that are not yet another Zelda or Mario? The hardcore crowd already has a PS3 or Xbox360 and doesn't need a WiiU and the casual crowd already has a Wii and doesn't need a WiiU either. So I am really not sure where Nintendo is trying to go with this. 
 
With the Wii it was simple: "Here is motion gaming", with Kinect you had "Full body motion gaming" with WiiU you have, well something, but nothing that will really impress anybody, especially  in times where people already have their iPads a shitty looking 640x480 screen won't impress anybody.

#4 Posted by TheAdmin (711 posts) -

Another thing is that game ports to wii u won't make use of the controller screen except for features that aren't essential. Take batman for example. If it's available for all 3 systems, they're not going to make the controller screen key to playing it because then people on xbox and playstation won't have the same core experience.

#5 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

@99X said:

Another thing is that game ports to wii u won't make use of the controller screen except for features that aren't essential. Take batman for example. If it's available for all 3 systems, they're not going to make the controller screen key to playing it because then people on xbox and playstation won't have the same core experience.

That doesn't make sense. Different systems having the same game in a single player or local coop experience don't need to share the same experience.

#6 Posted by BongChilla (204 posts) -

I'm really excited for this new system and I'm not really a nintendo fanboy. There are a lot of possibilities with the WiiU and let's face it Nintendo will utilize all of them. Third party support will be a little better but the last time third part support was good for nintendo what when? SNES?

#7 Posted by JJWeatherman (14557 posts) -

I think you're overthinking this. Although yes, it's clear that they're making more of an effort to go after the "core" market with the Wii U.

#8 Posted by Th3_James (2576 posts) -

Why wasn't it called the Wii Tuu?

#9 Posted by Bombs_Away (1010 posts) -

The Wii U is the antithesis of the Wii... Well that's definitely right according to the stock market!

#10 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -

I guess a mom seeing something that looks like an iPad as a controller will scream hell no. I don't think so. The Wii U will do fine in the casual market, shit, it still has the Wii name. Now, if the butthurt dual analog controller fanboys go along with it, that's another story.

#11 Posted by AgentofChaos (1565 posts) -

Hahaha... Really? Nintendo wants to "make up" to hardcore gamers? I doubt it, they have made way waaaaaaaaaayy more money catering to the casual crowd. They don't feel bad about making a lot of money.

#12 Posted by President_Barackbar (3438 posts) -

Nintendo certainly seems like they want to make a grab for the core market with this new system, but I think its a mistake to split their focus. Instead of going all in with one crowd, they are trying to make a console that will please everyone and it doesn't look like it will do that. Casuals aren't going to see the need to buy a new console, and core gamers don't need to get this new system to play 3rd party games when they have a PS3/360.

#13 Posted by DickDanger (105 posts) -

I don't think it's any secret that Nintendo is trying a new strategy here. The sales got stagnate so they need something else. 
  
The same can be said about Sony, where the Vita is 250-300 bucks, 3DS price range. Before Sony claimed they had expensive consoles because you were going to work for it because it's worth it. 
 
Companies try new strategies when money isn't pouring in, it happens a lot.
#14 Posted by DickDanger (105 posts) -
@99X said:
Another thing is that game ports to wii u won't make use of the controller screen except for features that aren't essential. Take batman for example. If it's available for all 3 systems, they're not going to make the controller screen key to playing it because then people on xbox and playstation won't have the same core experience.

I see your logic but that's not completely true. Afterall the Wii always got different version of games with waggle used instead of buttons. Like Star Wars: Force Unleashed. I'm sure Nintendo will pay these companies to make sure the tablet is used.
#15 Posted by ajamafalous (11866 posts) -

@Grumbel said:

The most baffling problem I see in the Wii U is that it quite literally offers nothing new to the casual crowd, absolutely fucking nothing. Given that it was that crowd that bought Wiis and drove sales I really don't see how the Wii U would work. I mean yeah, I kind of like the new controller, its a little ridiculous looking, but so what, you could make new interesting games with it, games that attract the hardcore crowd, but what exactly where they thinking when they stopped at that? That the casual crowd is going to buy another Wii that still has the same controller as five years ago? There is now standard motion plus, but that's more a nice addition then a fundamental game changer. Wii was successful because it had the word of mouth, it was on TV a lot and got around, can anybody imagine the screen-controller being shown around the same way? Very much doubt it. It looks like Nintendo is trying to grab the hardcore crowd, while doing nothing for the casuals and even their hardcore offering looks totally lame. New controller, fine, but games? Games that are not yet another Zelda or Mario? The hardcore crowd already has a PS3 or Xbox360 and doesn't need a WiiU and the casual crowd already has a Wii and doesn't need a WiiU either. So I am really not sure where Nintendo is trying to go with this. With the Wii it was simple: "Here is motion gaming", with Kinect you had "Full body motion gaming" with WiiU you have, well something, but nothing that will really impress anybody, especially in times where people already have their iPads a shitty looking 640x480 screen won't impress anybody.

@President_Barackbar said:

Nintendo certainly seems like they want to make a grab for the core market with this new system, but I think its a mistake to split their focus. Instead of going all in with one crowd, they are trying to make a console that will please everyone and it doesn't look like it will do that. Casuals aren't going to see the need to buy a new console, and core gamers don't need to get this new system to play 3rd party games when they have a PS3/360.

Pretty much these.

#16 Edited by Marz (5646 posts) -

What if the dad really wants to watch that baseball game.   turns off the wii...  makes the kid cry ( since there is no way to let the kid keep playing).      It's not always gonna happen the way you theorize.

#17 Edited by Claude (16254 posts) -

@President_Barackbar said:

Nintendo certainly seems like they want to make a grab for the core market with this new system, but I think its a mistake to split their focus. Instead of going all in with one crowd, they are trying to make a console that will please everyone and it doesn't look like it will do that. Casuals aren't going to see the need to buy a new console, and core gamers don't need to get this new system to play 3rd party games when they have a PS3/360.

You never know. People might want to upgrade their Wii, plus, you can use all your stuff you bought for the Wii. As for the Xbox 360/PS3 crowd, it all depends on how the games look and play. Of course, the launch is over a year away. But imagine if the games look just a little better and reviews come in stating that they play fine. And if you don't like the new controller, maybe Nintendo will release a wireless classic controller type of thing. There is so much time between now and then.

On the other side, if Microsoft announces a new console next E3 for release in 2013, that would hurt Nintendo with the core gamer more than anything.

#18 Posted by prestonhedges (1965 posts) -
@Grumbel said:
The most baffling problem I see in the Wii U is that it quite literally offers nothing new to the casual crowd, absolutely fucking nothing. Given that it was that crowd that bought Wiis and drove sales I really don't see how the Wii U would work. I mean yeah, I kind of like the new controller, its a little ridiculous looking, but so what, you could make new interesting games with it, games that attract the hardcore crowd, but what exactly where they thinking when they stopped at that? That the casual crowd is going to buy another Wii that still has the same controller as five years ago? There is now standard motion plus, but that's more a nice addition then a fundamental game changer.  Wii was successful because it had the word of mouth, it was on TV a lot and got around, can anybody imagine the screen-controller being shown around the same way? Very much doubt it.  It looks like Nintendo is trying to grab the hardcore crowd, while doing nothing for the casuals and even their hardcore offering looks totally lame. New controller, fine, but games? Games that are not yet another Zelda or Mario? The hardcore crowd already has a PS3 or Xbox360 and doesn't need a WiiU and the casual crowd already has a Wii and doesn't need a WiiU either. So I am really not sure where Nintendo is trying to go with this.   With the Wii it was simple: "Here is motion gaming", with Kinect you had "Full body motion gaming" with WiiU you have, well something, but nothing that will really impress anybody, especially  in times where people already have their iPads a shitty looking 640x480 screen won't impress anybody.
Play Mario and Call of Duty on the same console, in HD.
 
That sounds pretty simple to me.
#19 Posted by CornishRocker (397 posts) -

The Wii was fine for casuals and families, now the Wii U will garner a more widespread audience by (theoretically) appealing to core gamers.

Not a bad decision by Nintendo if they want to bring in more money. Why would they want to cater to the exact same audience again? Especially one that is likely to be happy with just the predecessor.

#20 Posted by CrossTheAtlantic (1145 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:

@99X said:

Another thing is that game ports to wii u won't make use of the controller screen except for features that aren't essential. Take batman for example. If it's available for all 3 systems, they're not going to make the controller screen key to playing it because then people on xbox and playstation won't have the same core experience.

That doesn't make sense. Different systems having the same game in a single player or local coop experience don't need to share the same experience.

He's just saying there won't be substantial differences. For most ports, there likely won't be some added functionality to the screen that really takes advantage of the controller and would motivate a consumer to purchase the Wii U version. It'll probably mostly be maps and inventories.  But as I said elsewhere, there's the whole going from 2 to 1 screen that will also prevent the controller from really functioning in unique ways.
 
I mean, I would love to be wrong though.
#21 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@99X said:

Another thing is that game ports to wii u won't make use of the controller screen except for features that aren't essential. Take batman for example. If it's available for all 3 systems, they're not going to make the controller screen key to playing it because then people on xbox and playstation won't have the same core experience.

That doesn't make sense. Different systems having the same game in a single player or local coop experience don't need to share the same experience.

He's just saying there won't be substantial differences. For most ports, there likely won't be some added functionality to the screen that really takes advantage of the controller and would motivate a consumer to purchase the Wii U version. It'll probably mostly be maps and inventories. But as I said elsewhere, there's the whole going from 2 to 1 screen that will also prevent the controller from really functioning in unique ways. I mean, I would love to be wrong though.

Developers will play to the system's strengths. This isn't a Playstation 3 porting exercise, Nintendo has 60% of the market.

#22 Posted by SpudBug (633 posts) -

I think the WiiU is Nintendo's best guess on how to get the japanese to buy a new home console in 2012. Offer it as a console/portable for use in a household where space is at a premium and there probably is only one TV for use.

#23 Posted by Grumbel (910 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:

Developers will play to the system's strengths. This isn't a Playstation 3 porting exercise, Nintendo has 60% of the market.

Nintendo has zero percent of the market as the WiiU isn't out yet. Also not even the Wii has 60% of the market, it has 45%, while PS3/Xbox360 have 55%. And developers playing to the system strength, yeah nice dream, the reality is that ports are almost always done as cheaply as possible, you very rarely even get a new GUI for the PC even so the controller based menus work terrible with mouse&keyboard and heck, even on the DS, where the developers are forced to work from scratch, you rarely get clever use of the touchscreen.
#24 Posted by Apollo87 (148 posts) -
@AgentofChaos said:

Hahaha... Really? Nintendo wants to "make up" to hardcore gamers? I doubt it, they have made way waaaaaaaaaayy more money catering to the casual crowd. They don't feel bad about making a lot of money.

Sure the casuals bought a lot of consoles, but the software is a whole different story, Nintendo sees this as an opportunity for all the money they're not making so it's in their best interest have those people that buy a ton of games using their console.
#25 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

@Grumbel said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

Developers will play to the system's strengths. This isn't a Playstation 3 porting exercise, Nintendo has 60% of the market.

Nintendo has zero percent of the market as the WiiU isn't out yet. Also not even the Wii has 60% of the market, it has 45%, while PS3/Xbox360 have 55%. And developers playing to the system strength, yeah nice dream, the reality is that ports are almost always done as cheaply as possible, you very rarely even get a new GUI for the PC even so the controller based menus work terrible with mouse&keyboard and heck, even on the DS, where the developers are forced to work from scratch, you rarely get clever use of the touchscreen.

Nintendo, not the Wii, has over 60% of the market (both home console and handheld) collectively. There's a reason why backwards compatibility became a thing since the the rise the of the PS2, things do not just magically reset on the eve of a new system. This is very early in the picture and developers and publishers will most definitely want to and plan to play to the system's strengths, not only to capitalise on Nintendo's leading market share but also as a part of the learning process of working with the system's SDK itself. This is of course only possible if Nintendo offers a fully functional SDK which is well supported by a brains-trust.

#26 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@99X said:

Another thing is that game ports to wii u won't make use of the controller screen except for features that aren't essential. Take batman for example. If it's available for all 3 systems, they're not going to make the controller screen key to playing it because then people on xbox and playstation won't have the same core experience.

That doesn't make sense. Different systems having the same game in a single player or local coop experience don't need to share the same experience.

He's just saying there won't be substantial differences. For most ports, there likely won't be some added functionality to the screen that really takes advantage of the controller and would motivate a consumer to purchase the Wii U version. It'll probably mostly be maps and inventories. But as I said elsewhere, there's the whole going from 2 to 1 screen that will also prevent the controller from really functioning in unique ways. I mean, I would love to be wrong though.

Developers will play to the system's strengths. This isn't a Playstation 3 porting exercise, Nintendo has 60% of the market.

They'll play to the system's strengths if it launches well and software sales are strong. If sales remain stronger on the other platforms then its not inconceivable that the "New Controller" will be providing brand new interactive experiences primarily related to pause menus. If Nintendo makes using the touchscreen mandatory and sales don't make the extra effort worthwhile then third-party support could just go away. Again.

Third party support didn't dwindle on the Wii because of anything Nintendo did or didn't do in supporting the Wii, it dwindled because MS and Sony tried their damnedest to tie down the biggest 'hardcore' developers with exclusivity deals on each of their curent gen systems. As a result almost all of the mid level dev houses whose resources are small dropped away early from the Wii to concentrate on the two most similar systems while Nintendo, as it has always done, made hay while the sun shone with their own in house developed brands on the Wii while also supporting the smaller developers and products (many from larger developers like Hudson) with the downloadable market. The presentation said it all, the larger third parties do not want to miss the boat this time.

#27 Posted by TheAdmin (711 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:

@99X said:

Another thing is that game ports to wii u won't make use of the controller screen except for features that aren't essential. Take batman for example. If it's available for all 3 systems, they're not going to make the controller screen key to playing it because then people on xbox and playstation won't have the same core experience.

That doesn't make sense. Different systems having the same game in a single player or local coop experience don't need to share the same experience.

Developers aren't going to make the Wii U Pad necessary for gameplay, then it wouldn't port right to the other consoles. They're going to create the core game that works on all 3, adding fluff features after the fact.  The Xbox gets a special mission, PS3 gets a new character, and Wii U has map screens and inventory management on the controller. Unless the game is specifically for the Wii U, the controller will remain a niche in the game development cycle (I'm talking mostly for 3rd parties)

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