Nintendo: Sony and Microsoft are Embarrassing Themselves

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#51 Posted by Whisperkill (2969 posts) -
@Muttinus_Rump: Well whatever you mean, I'm saying that making a remote shaped controller that you shake every now and then is just plain stupid, and that nobody has made a game using the thing that would not be better off on a true next generation console. It's a stupid gimmick that hooks dumbass soccer moms and little kids.
#52 Posted by RandomInternetUser (6789 posts) -
@End_Boss said:
" Its interesting that Fils-Aime is ragging on the other two of the Big Three for not innovating when his company's console has done little but flood the market with mini-game collections and shovelware. The Wii certainly has its gaming gems, but the list of party games it mass produces far outstrips those few brilliant (and usually in-house) titles.
 
Yes, Fils-Aime is sitting pretty right now on his mountains upon mountains of money, but what happens when the other Big Two start offering those same mini-games and shovelware on a high definition console that also plays all of your favorite third-party titles? I think Nintendo is going to have to switch its angle up pretty soon, because the market they have cornered so well is now contested, and they haven't constructed the Wii to compete in a high definition environment. "
The thing is though, the "causal" people who own a Wii (read: your mom, dad, grandma, and their 5 - 10 year old kids for party games and Wii Fit (note: this is not to bash the Wii, simply to get a point across)) are not going to see this and think "Oh, I need one of those!"  They're going to see it and say "Oh, I already have that" for the most part, so it's going to take some crazy marketing to get this stuff to be popular among this market.  Maybe next gen Natal and Move can do some damage to the Wii's popularity among this crowd, but I don't see it happening soon. Maybe it will catch on if it's marketed like Modern Warfare 2 was, who knows.
#53 Posted by Hailinel (23680 posts) -
@DOUBLESHOCK:   Nintendo has nothing to be embarrassed about.  No widespread hardware/firmware failures thus far this generation, an excellent first/second-party line-up of titles with a wide selection of quality third-party titles, incredible sales numbers, and their two chief competitors scrambling to play catch-up.  Hell, if I were in their position, I'd stop whatever I was doing once a month or so to raise my fists in triumph, especially considering the fact that the GameCube had so many issues and people were prepared to write the company's handheld dominance off completely when the PSP was first announced.
 
Are there things about the Wii that could be better?  Yes.  About their online service?  Definitely.  But damn if they aren't sitting pretty right now.
#54 Edited by WinterSnowblind (7613 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

" @DOUBLESHOCK:   Nintendo has nothing to be embarrassed about.  No widespread hardware/firmware failures thus far this generation, an excellent first/second-party line-up of titles with a wide selection of quality third-party titles, incredible sales numbers, and their two chief competitors scrambling to play catch-up.  Hell, if I were in their position, I'd stop whatever I was doing once a month or so to raise my fists in triumph, especially considering the fact that the GameCube had so many issues and people were prepared to write the company's handheld dominance off completely when the PSP was first announced.  Are there things about the Wii that could be better?  Yes.  About their online service?  Definitely.  But damn if they aren't sitting pretty right now. "

Their online service is an embarassment, I don't think I could state my feelings about it any other way.  They're so ridiculously far behind in that regard it is most certainly hurting them.
 
But aside from that, I do agree..  especially after Sony's GDC conference which was almost word for word what Microsoft said last E3 about Natal, and then their advertisement campaign appears to be exactly the same as how Nintendo has been promoting the Wii/DS these past few years.  It was agony.  I'm hoping Microsoft don't make the same mistakes at E3, as their technology is at least not exactly the same.  But I'm not really expecting much.  I was hoping they'd put more of a focus on the unique control aspects that could be used for games like Black & White to great benefit and how the Milo features could perhaps be used in the Fable games to add a lot more depth and interesting RPG mechanics..   
 
But instead I expect them to focus on casual games, minigame collections and fitness programs.
Can't really blame them for wanting in on the action, and I can't blame Nintendo for looking down on them.  But when Nintendo announce their next system, I'd be highly surprised if it isn't just another Wii with the same technolgical improvements that we've seen from the 360/PS3 already.
#55 Edited by MikkaQ (10263 posts) -
@Hailinel:  Well I'm going on the fact that most Wii owners buy less games than owners of the other two consoles. Just look it up, or something. Hell look at Smash Bros.. sales dropped 90% after a month. Also it's hard to ignore 40% of the american populace, the very same populace that made the wii so successful in the first place. That just seems insulting. 
 
Also I can't conceive of anything in the wii's online service that isn't broken short of the playing itself. Even that wasn't amazing. But friend codes for individual games and no real online persistence with accounts is basically online play from the stone age. I don't know why they'd flub such a popular method of playing.  
 
I mean fuck, I love Nintendo, and I wish the wii was a lot cooler than it was. I want to like it but... I'm also ready to admit they got served after GDC and E3 shows what other consoles are cooking up, motion wise. Maybe not in sales, sure, but in the fun to be had... yeah I'll take more precision and HD graphics any day.
#56 Posted by Brendan (7666 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:
"You know, I'll take whatever's fun.  If it involves motion control and it's fun, I don't care about needing to move my arms a little."

This is what I was looking for. 
#57 Posted by heat (190 posts) -

Thanks for the HD system Nintendo, it looks great on my hdtv!

#58 Posted by natetodamax (19167 posts) -

I really don't care about Reggie Fils-Aime anymore. He's so full of himself.

#59 Posted by Th3_James (2576 posts) -

Nintendo embarrasses themselves......

#60 Posted by Cornman89 (1579 posts) -

I love Reggie. He'll say anything. The man doesn't give a fuck.

#61 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7613 posts) -
@End_Boss said:
" Its interesting that Fils-Aime is ragging on the other two of the Big Three for not innovating when his company's console has done little but flood the market with mini-game collections and shovelware. The Wii certainly has its gaming gems, but the list of party games it mass produces far outstrips those few brilliant (and usually in-house) titles.
 
Yes, Fils-Aime is sitting pretty right now on his mountains upon mountains of money, but what happens when the other Big Two start offering those same mini-games and shovelware on a high definition console that also plays all of your favorite third-party titles? I think Nintendo is going to have to switch its angle up pretty soon, because the market they have cornered so well is now contested, and they haven't constructed the Wii to compete in a high definition environment. "
In fairness, I think E3 will be pretty interesting this year.  Nintendo have a pretty solid lineup, which I see being the main focus for them, where as Microsoft and Sony will likely heavily focus on their new motion technology.  That being said, like I said in my last post, I do see things changing for Nintendo pretty quickly if Sony/Microsoft can gain a foothold in this market, as they'll have the technology and a stream of proper 'core' games that Nintendo doesn't stand a hope of matching.
 
I also hope Sony/MS can strike a better balance at their conferences..  Microsoft have a huge amount of games coming this year, that'll hopefully get at least equal coverage as Natal and I'm sure Sony will have some big announcements
#62 Edited by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

True hardcore gamers bitching and rationalizing the fact that their 'real game' system is copying the 'nonegame' system. Have fun with the Wii ports. No really, "Nintendo is embarrassing themselves" being so far ahead in the running that MS and Sony created these half ass knockoffs. That's some logic right there, winners.

#63 Posted by Hailinel (23680 posts) -
@XII_Sniper said:
" @Hailinel:  Well I'm going on the fact that most Wii owners buy less games than owners of the other two consoles. Just look it up, or something. Hell look at Smash Bros.. sales dropped 90% after a month. Also it's hard to ignore 40% of the american populace, the very same populace that made the wii so successful in the first place. That just seems insulting.  Also I can't conceive of anything in the wii's online service that isn't broken short of the playing itself. Even that wasn't amazing. But friend codes for individual games and no real online persistence with accounts is basically online play from the stone age. I don't know why they'd flub such a popular method of playing.   I mean fuck, I love Nintendo, and I wish the wii was a lot cooler than it was. I want to like it but... I'm also ready to admit they got served after GDC and E3 shows what other consoles are cooking up, motion wise. Maybe not in sales, sure, but in the fun to be had... yeah I'll take more precision and HD graphics any day. "
I love how you state supposed facts and then ask me to be the one to look it up.  You brought it up, you prove it.
 
As for Smash Bros., the sales for that game are pretty much just like the sales for Final Fantasy XIII in Japan.  Everyone that was interested in the game bought it within the first month it was released.  And those sales numbers were pretty darn good. 
 
While 40% of the American populace own HDTVs, how many HDTV owners also own or are interested in owning a video game console?  How many people still using standard definition CRT televisions plan to upgrade in the near future?  The only reason that I upgraded, and this was no more than a couple of months ago, was because I was sick of having to squint my eyes to look at the microscopic text in some of my PS3 games.  Yet even so, I only did this because I had the budget for a new TV at the time.  Not everyone does, nor does everyone make buying a new television a priority as long as their existing television is working just fine.
 
And even if the tech in the PS3's Wii Remote and Nunchuk knock-offs are indeed a significant improvement, there's still the problem that not everyone is going to buy them.  Not all 360 owners are going to buy a Natal, either.  They're optional accessories akin to the Balance Board.  Outside of a relative few games dedicated to their use, the majority of games released will limit their implementation to the extent that at best won't get in the way and at worst will feel like a middling afterthought.
#64 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@Whisperkill said:
  All these causal people don't think of the Wii as a gaming machine, they think of it as a toy, nothing more. If you don't think that at least half of the people who bought a wii haven't bought more than 3 games for it, then you need to get your head out of your ass."
So you hold it against them that people who play the Wii don't spend all their time gaming? 
Wow, what a loser. Pathetic.
#65 Posted by Kr3lian (310 posts) -

You know what's really pathetic?  Sitting on the sidelines and defending one multi-national corporation against comments made by another multi-national corporation.  (Insert bleating sheep noise).

#66 Posted by raiz265 (2232 posts) -

never ending console war - hooray!

#67 Posted by Funzzo (834 posts) -

I dont like motion controls. When I sit down to play a game it's after a long day at work. I dont want to have to move and all that shit. just gimme a controller with 2 sticks a d-pad and some buttons and I will be happy.
#68 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11419 posts) -

Regardless of my opinion on the wii (i.e. Meh), Nintendo is perfectly fine in calling out its competitors for trying to grab a piece of the soccer moms and old people pie. Embarrassing? Maybe. I think the Move is pretty embarrassing, if only because of its overt similarity to the wiimote, but I haven't seen enough of Natal to judge one way or the other. It certainly has the potential to be even more embarrassing than the Move.

#69 Posted by Toxin066 (3250 posts) -

As much as I love Microsoft and Sony, I can't help but feel they are embarrassing themselves. Two years ago, they viewed the Wii as a gimmick. Now they're both getting in to motion sensing tech. To me, there seem to be a lot of parallels between this and the EA-and-MMA games thing. And EA definitely embarrassed themselves with that move.

#70 Posted by oldschool (7264 posts) -

I would like to know what Handsome Dead thinks about this?     Where is he when you need him  ^-^ 
 
I am not invested enough in any of this to get riled up about it.  Simple thing is, MS and Sony are chasing what they always said was irrelevant.  That is a a big backtrack.  In the end, we are all winners know matter what happens as motion technology improves with competition and traditional controller games aren't going anywhere. 
 
Peace brothers.  I am off to play DQV on my DS.

#71 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@Kr3lian said:
" You know what's really pathetic?  Sitting on the sidelines and defending one multi-national corporation against comments made by another multi-national corporation.  (Insert bleating sheep noise). "
So corporations are evil, we're all sheep? Pass the bong bro we'll show the man together.
#72 Posted by Quacktastic (1066 posts) -

Sony has been experimenting with motion control since the PS2.  The EyeToy was released in '03.
 

 

#73 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

Duck Hunt.

#74 Posted by Quacktastic (1066 posts) -
@ryanwho said:
" Duck Hunt. "
Yeah they innovated a lot in the last 15 years.
#75 Posted by bhhawks78 (1201 posts) -
@Woffls said:

" @Kazona: When did they say on-line gaming has no future? Perhaps they said it in the context of the Wii experience and local multi-player still being more important than most people give it credit for.  Nintendo have no reason to feel embarrassed - note the connotations specific to this word, and not those associated with 'inferior', for example - they did exactly what they set out to do with no mistakes and no regrets aside from perhaps being unprepared for its success. What we think about their approach to games is irrelevant, and this isn't the first time Nintendo's opposition has.. uhh... fallen in line, shall we say.  And yes, I am more than willing to share gummy snakes.  NOMNOM "

 I think Nintendo embarrassed themselves first.  Like a stripper, the money is great but no dignity.
#76 Posted by Whisperkill (2969 posts) -
@ryanwho said:
" @Whisperkill said:
  All these causal people don't think of the Wii as a gaming machine, they think of it as a toy, nothing more. If you don't think that at least half of the people who bought a wii haven't bought more than 3 games for it, then you need to get your head out of your ass."
So you hold it against them that people who play the Wii don't spend all their time gaming? Wow, what a loser. Pathetic. "
Wow, calling someone a loser. You really have no better argument. Sorry dude, I'm far from it. 
  
I try defending my claim against all these Nintendo fanboys and I get called a loser. God I hate the internet.
#77 Posted by bhhawks78 (1201 posts) -
@Whisperkill said:
" @ryanwho said:
" @Whisperkill said:
  All these causal people don't think of the Wii as a gaming machine, they think of it as a toy, nothing more. If you don't think that at least half of the people who bought a wii haven't bought more than 3 games for it, then you need to get your head out of your ass."
So you hold it against them that people who play the Wii don't spend all their time gaming? Wow, what a loser. Pathetic. "
Wow, calling someone a loser. You really have no better argument. Sorry dude, I'm far from it.   I try defending my claim against all these Nintendo fanboys and I get called a loser. God I hate the internet. "
Dude only super cool bros who don't play games are bro enough to post on message board and not be losers bro
#78 Posted by floorswine (169 posts) -

Nintendo popularised the analogue stick back in the mid-1990's. They have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to innovations on a technical level. Having said that, Sony came along with the concept of the dual-analogue controller afterwards, so perhaps the much-maligned ice cream cone motion controller will be a more accurate and intuitive design than the Wiimote?  Who knows, why don't we wait and see when the games start to come out?
 
Disclaimer: This post is a fanboy-free zone.

#79 Posted by MikkaQ (10263 posts) -
@Hailinel:  Meeeh fine, making me a work on a sunday, shame on you.  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/21/technology/21wii.html 
  
And go to a TV store. How many CRTs are even for sale? Basically none. And they might -might- have one or two LCD TVs that aren't HD, but those are quickly disappearing. Tube TV now cost more to make than an HDTV, so literally everyone hanging on to one is either going to wait till it dies, or earlier to get an HDTV, that's going to happen in less than 10 years for sure. Nintendo just isn't doing a great job at adapting to modern tech. EVen their motion controls are behind now, compared to the competition, so I think it is them who should be embarrassed with their competitors. That's all I'm saying. 
#80 Edited by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@XII_Sniper said:

" @Hailinel:  Meeeh fine, making me a work on a sunday, shame on you.  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/21/technology/21wii.html   And go to a TV store. How many CRTs are even for sale? Basically none. And they might -might- have one or two LCD TVs that aren't HD, but those are quickly disappearing. Tube TV now cost more to make than an HDTV, so literally everyone hanging on to one is either going to wait till it dies, or earlier to get an HDTV, that's going to happen in less than 10 years for sure. Nintendo just isn't doing a great job at adapting to modern tech. EVen their motion controls are behind now, compared to the competition, so I think it is them who should be embarrassed with their competitors. That's all I'm saying.  "

You've never played with Move or Natal. And Move was pretty unintuitive at the stage demo, if you saw that and thought it looked better than Motion Plus you might want to get your eyes checked. Have you even used Motion Plus, or is this you 3 way taste testing from a mile away like a moron?
#81 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@Quacktastic said:
" @ryanwho said:
" Duck Hunt. "
Yeah they innovated a lot in the last 15 years. "
Duck hunt was quacktastic.
#82 Posted by Blueman (753 posts) -

They should be embarrased, they've both just jumped on the bandwagon that Nintendo created
#83 Posted by TotalEklypse (1000 posts) -

Actually you know what is pretty embarassing? Teaming up with a company many years ago to create a disc based addon for a certain system. THEN backing out of the deal because with all of the wisdom in the world  they felt that disc based media would never be for games and staying with good old cartridges (in all thier slap and blow to work glory). .... just to have that partnered company  create something else and dominate the industry for 2 generations ( Yea the backroom deal you did with Phillips sure went well did it not?). Maybe they saw the error early on when they tried to sue to stop the PS1 from ever coming out.. but that didn't work... THEN when they finally jump on the disc bandwagon because they finally realize the old ways do not work.. they make some half ass tiny disc that holds jack squat for a system that was a total flop.  
 
Jump ahead a few years to present day.. Nintendo creates a small white box which is basically recycled hardware from a previous gen with a gimmick attached. By thier own standards they call it a success while throwing all the gamers who made them what they are to the wolves. It is embarrassing the games they have released, embarassing that they are playing catch up in all tech departments, and embarassing that the attachment rate is almost not there for the Wii. I have many friends I play "the competitors games" with all the time and not one of them has bought a game for the Wii in 2 years..That is pretty sad if you ask me. We grew up playing games from that company just to have them  become a sideshow. Don't get me wrong, I am not against motion control or taking things in a different direction. The thing I am seriously hateful of is the fact they forgot about those of us who supported them even during thier days as a pariah. Go ahead and dump the shovelware and carnival games on the people who play the thing once a month  for all I care. We have all moved on anyway. We are too busy playing functional online (which you claimed  would also go nowhere), too busy watching high def video, social networking, using actual in game voice chat, etc. So enjoy selling all those plastic addon wheels and toy guns just to have them broken and lost in the toy box. The rest of us grew out of the 20 year old game rehashes and remakes long ago. Continue revolutionizing with such phenominal releases as Wii Music and Toy Story Mania. I really am not sure how it is I sleep at night knowing I wont get to play another Mario game...or another Metriod game...or yet another Link saves Zelda game.  
 
Who knows maybe most of us just grew up? Quality over quantity might have become relevant to us. So keep on innovating...    
#84 Posted by shadowblazer19 (73 posts) -
@ArchScabby said:
" @DCFGS3 said:
" I dunno, I think it's good the heavy weights are pushing into motion controls. It means that we move one step closer to a more realistic and interactive gaming experience in real games. Nintendo really just caters to the young family people, which is fine, but at the same time I would like to see what the real game consoles can do with motion technology. In all likelihood both Move and Natal will flop. But it's a step, and maybe next gen, they won't flop, and the gen after that it'll be standard gaming. "
If next gen is all motion controls I'm gonna have to find a new hobby.  It's not more realistic, it's a gimmick that takes you out of the experience, because you always have to pay so much attention to what movement you are supposed to be doing.  I want to relax on my couch when I play a game, I don't want to jump around and fling my arms like an idiot. "
This. Will need a new hobby... I'm sorry but motion controls are not the future but they are as said above, a gimmick.
#85 Posted by Blueman (753 posts) -

At least Nintendo tried something different this gen, instead of just making their previous system more powerful. The wii is innovative, its just that developers have been lazy. Nintendo's innovation has paid off, they've beaten MS and Sony BAD.
#86 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@TotalEklypse said:
"  By thier own standards they call it a success"
People who judge success by how much money is made and how popular something is also call it a success, which is why your real hardcore gamer system x, whatever the hell it is, is copying them now. Because they also measure success by money and popularity, and their current pipeline is a relative failure compared to the Wii. Also, wow, so bitter. This isn't your personal fight, lighten up.
#87 Posted by TheHT (10804 posts) -

lol yeah that's pretty funny. then again motion control is the wii's whole deal. hmmmmmmmmmm...

#88 Posted by TotalEklypse (1000 posts) -
@floorswine said:
"Nintendo popularised the analogue stick back in the mid-1990's. They have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to innovations on a technical level. Having said that, Sony came along with the concept of the dual-analogue controller afterwards, so perhaps the much-maligned ice cream cone motion controller will be a more accurate and intuitive design than the Wiimote?  Who knows, why don't we wait and see when the games start to come out? Disclaimer: This post is a fanboy-free zone. "

sorry but the analog stick was popular in the 70s with other consoles. the revolution didnt come until dual analog sticks. sony actually made the dual one in 1995 for some games like Decent.. a year before in 1996 nintendo made a single digital stick for the n64. analog > digital. just saying check your tech info before u post lol. who really cares about who made a tech first.. how about your tv? is it from the company who originally made the television? nope. a piece of tech comes to light and then is improved on by others. it is the way of the world.
#89 Posted by Kr3lian (310 posts) -
@ryanwho said:
" @Kr3lian said:
" You know what's really pathetic?  Sitting on the sidelines and defending one multi-national corporation against comments made by another multi-national corporation.  (Insert bleating sheep noise). "
So corporations are evil, we're all sheep? Pass the bong bro we'll show the man together. "
 
Nope, but they do only care about making money.  So unless you have a shit ton of stock in the company and think that running your mouth on Giantbomb is gonna get you rich, then - yeah - shit talking about which video game platform pwns the other one pretty much makes you a mindless sheep.  Have fun with that.
#90 Posted by PercyChuggs (1087 posts) -

Yes, they innovated by making a console version of those TV fishing and hunting games you could buy at Wal Mart 10 years ago.

#91 Edited by insouciant (710 posts) -

@Kr3lian

said:  

"You know what's really pathetic? Sitting on the sidelines and defending one multi-national corporation against comments made by another multi-national corporation. (Insert bleating sheep noise). "

Well, a lot of people identify with their consoles. It's as fun as one guy saying his sports team is going to kick your sports team's ass. The majority of threads on this site—or any site for that matter—are boring. At least there's some heated debate in this one.    

#92 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@PercyChuggs said:
" Yes, they innovated by making a console version of those TV fishing and hunting games you could buy at Wal Mart 10 years ago. "
And your hardcore system x is now copying them, and you get to divorce yourself from that and somehow spin how your system's ripoff is totally revolutionary. Have fun with all that.
#93 Posted by insouciant (710 posts) -

@Hailinel

said:

When you spend three years portraying the attitude of "HERP DERP WAGGLEAGGLEAGGLE LOLLOLOLZ!111" toward motion control, only to double back and make it a new focus when the console you've been mocking is kicking your ass in sales, it's going to be at least a little embarrassing when that crow is served up.

lol!

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