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    Defend the planet from an alien invasion as a part of the 'Extraterrestrial Combat Unit'.

    Sequel to XCOM: Enemy Unknown rumoured?

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    Burt

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    #1  Edited By Burt

    All I can find at the moment is the following quote from technolgytell.com : 'Possibly titled “XCOM Deux,” XCOM 2 will be announced as early as Monday, June 1, 2015, for PC and consoles. Pre-orders will be accepted in early June, and the game will ship in November.'

    Sounds legit I think and I'm pretty excited for it.

    What would you want in the sequel though? I'd be happy with more of the same to be honest , but with a more realist style and less jank.

    edit: apologies for the poor formatting and lack of links, I'm on my phone if that's any excuse.

    edit: link to original article

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    ArtisanBreads

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    #2  Edited By ArtisanBreads

    I want a lot more maps. Procedural generation of them would be the best if they could make that still be interesting. At least more. I think the maps is a huge one though because I could play that game for a long ass time and not get bored of it if they kept the maps unpredictable and varied, however they manage to do that. Also more destruction in the levels would keep things dynamic and be really fun to mess with. Something more like Silent Storm.

    A system that wasn't running into an alien group and then they make their moves. I want to get the outright drop on aliens with stealth or something. Just something that feels more like the aliens are playing by the same rules with that would be cool. Maybe only some aliens behave that way? Others wouldn't. I know the game is harsh in a lot of ways but tactically I didn't enjoy that mechanic.

    I'd love deeper and well balanced progression with characters. More diversity in your squad's appearance and maybe give them more personality? The nickname was a good start but they could go further. More classes and progression with a longer tail, however you could do that. Just you could max out a character in XCOM in not too long and there wasn't much to do with him after that.

    New weapons, more aliens, and all that jazz. Different objectives.

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    BeachThunder

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    #3  Edited By BeachThunder

    I want an underwater sequel.

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    stinger061

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    I think having the enemy play by the same rules is the big one. The fact that the aliens got a free move as soon as you encountered them was really annoying in Enemy Unknown and often left you on the back foot at the start of encounters.

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    User_Undefined

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    Equal rules would be nice, but I'd also like it if they took some ideas from the Long War mod and brought them in. Namely, the different classes/upgrade trees, class specific items, the new tech levels, and number of starting locations. Not a big fan of the fatigue system, though I understand why the maker added it in. I also like Long War's officer system, though I've heard he's changing how officers work in beta 15e, so I'm interested to see what's being changed.

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    PatODay

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    Equal rules would be nice, but I'd also like it if they took some ideas from the Long War mod and brought them in. Namely, the different classes/upgrade trees, class specific items, the new tech levels, and number of starting locations. Not a big fan of the fatigue system, though I understand why the maker added it in. I also like Long War's officer system, though I've heard he's changing how officers work in beta 15e, so I'm interested to see what's being changed.

    Long War type elements would be great, even if you have to opt into them like the second wave stuff. It would be pretty cool if the story has you taking the fight to the aliens home planet for some of it, just different maps and terrain, maybe some atmospheric stuff you have to account for with loadouts (toxicity etc)

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    icicle7x3

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    I'm totally down for a new XCOM. BRING ON THE THIN MEN!

    NO, NOT THAT MANY THIN ME-

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    MocBucket62

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    #8  Edited By MocBucket62

    2K has been teasing a game with a website called Advent Future. The website seems really freaky as its pretending to be some revolutionary site that will promise a better future for all of humanity by living in a single society, but the site intentionally glitches out with messages saying the Advent is lying and they plan to destroy us all. The most recent image that might have confirmed that this is a new XCOM is this image, which appears to be an anagram for Vigilo Confido, which was the Latin phrase on the XCOM symbol. If this is all true, color me pumped!

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    ThunderSlash

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    #9  Edited By ThunderSlash

    2K has been teasing a game with a website called Advent Future. The website seems really freaky as its pretending to be some revolutionary site that will promise a better future for all of humanity by living in a single society, but the site intentionally glitches out with with messages saying the Advent is lying and they plan to destroy us all. The most recent image that might have confirmed that this is a new XCOm is this image, which appears to be an anagram for Vigilo Confido, which was the Latin phrase on the XCOM symbol. If this is all true, color me pumped!

    Wow interesting. They might be trying to reboot XCOM Apocalypse's mega city premise.

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    Heycalvero

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    I would be insanely happy with this. I can think of few things in video games more satisfying than shooting down alien scum with an overwatch barrage.

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    LackingSaint

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    #11  Edited By LackingSaint
    @stinger061 said:

    I think having the enemy play by the same rules is the big one. The fact that the aliens got a free move as soon as you encountered them was really annoying in Enemy Unknown and often left you on the back foot at the start of encounters.

    A lot of people say this, but I don't really understand this complaint. I mean, if you could shoot at aliens right off the bat, you could completely trivialize every single enemy that utilizes cover, because if you catch them early in your turn you have 6+ shots at a group of enemies standing out in the open with zero ability to dodge your hits. Also, they already do basically play by your rules; if an enemy stumbles into you during their turn, then they can't attack you in that turn either. I am totally fine with having to deal with enemies scrambling for cover, rather than suddenly being rushed, flank-shot and having zero ability to deal with it. Seriously, imagine a scenario where you're scouting for enemies, finish your turn, and then at the start of the Alien turn they rush in, flank all your dudes and mow you all down. THAT would be "playing by the same rules" if enemy aliens weren't allowed to scramble for cover.

    Aside from that though, i'll definitely echo the comments that i'd love to see the devs take some more inspiration from Long War. Honestly, i'm so attached to Infantry, Gunners, Engineers, Scouts, Giant Mobs, multiple Base Assaults, new map spawns, unique MEC classes, crazy extra items and extensive rebalancing, I don't know if I could just go back to the kind of tactical selection we have in Vanilla EU/EW.

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    bluefish

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    #12  Edited By bluefish

    I haven't heard anything personally but with the big success of the last one I don't see how you don't make another. I would, of course, love it to happen.

    (side note) I don't understand how more people weren't looking for Enemy Unknown/Within to come to Vita. It would have been so, so, so perfect there.

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    GERALTITUDE

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    I've been playing Enemy Within lately.

    I love XCOM.

    Give me more XCOM.

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    Colonel_Pockets

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    Enemy Unknown was awesome. I'm in!

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    ArbitraryWater

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    @mocbucket62 said:

    2K has been teasing a game with a website called Advent Future. The website seems really freaky as its pretending to be some revolutionary site that will promise a better future for all of humanity by living in a single society, but the site intentionally glitches out with with messages saying the Advent is lying and they plan to destroy us all. The most recent image that might have confirmed that this is a new XCOm is this image, which appears to be an anagram for Vigilo Confido, which was the Latin phrase on the XCOM symbol. If this is all true, color me pumped!

    Wow interesting. They might be trying to reboot XCOM Apocalypse's mega city premise.

    I'd actually be super into that, maybe moreso than it being underwater. Apocalypse as a game isn't that great, but it has a lot of neat ideas that someone could run with.

    Also, the RED TEXT is in the same font as the one used in XCOM.

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    Hunter5024

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    #16  Edited By Hunter5024

    If this really ships in November I'd be so into that. That'd be 3 years too so the timing makes sense.

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    hatking

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    Yes, please. XCOM is incredible. Give me some skirmish mode or challenge mode or something like that for single player that is outside of the main campaign. There were a ton of times that I just wanted to bust out a quick, low-stakes game before work or something that didn't require me worrying about a home base or narrative.

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    TheHT

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    2K has been teasing a game with a website called Advent Future. The website seems really freaky as its pretending to be some revolutionary site that will promise a better future for all of humanity by living in a single society, but the site intentionally glitches out with with messages saying the Advent is lying and they plan to destroy us all. The most recent image that might have confirmed that this is a new XCOm is this image, which appears to be an anagram for Vigilo Confido, which was the Latin phrase on the XCOM symbol. If this is all true, color me pumped!

    Oh hell fucking yes.

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    Zevvion

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    I'm an XCOM fanatic. I have over 400 hours in Enemy Unknown and over 500 in Enemy Within. I should feel terrible about that, but I couldn't feel better about it. I love the game to death.

    I have many wishes for a sequel, though I thought they could crank out more juice for the current one. I am totally down for more of the same, hoping it will have less game breaking bugs. However, I would really like it if the Aliens themselves improved their tech too, based on certain factors. Maybe not so much based on time like introducing new aliens does, but maybe based on certain objectives that you fail and they succeed. I would like it if some missions were objective based, but geared towards not being able to complete all objectives in that particular mission and having to make choices where to focus your efforts. Based on the objectives you failed, the aliens would improve their tech in certain aspects. This would lead you to make choices to basically allow them to improve their tech in area's you deem the least damaging to you.

    Also, I hope EXALT immediately makes an appearance instead of having to wait for DLC. I do hope that they go beyond the two levels of EXALT troops this time though. They should add an experimental plasma level of EXALT troops, and perhaps also experimental mechanized ones. All less worthy than XCOM of course, in some respect. But the current EXALT missions just become boring later in the game.

    I would also actually love it if they implemented a nemesis system of some kind, where it is no longer required to kill every enemy on the map to finish a mission all the time, but if you (accidentally) let one live, they come back in future missions with more perks, health and aim. Basically raising their rank.

    Also, I would jizz all the pants in the world if they made a coopertive campaign. That would be so bad ass. Maybe not even having to play at the same time. Something where your buddy can be under attack when he is not online and you defending his base or something like that. When he'd log back in, he'd see you defended his base successfully or something.

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    limond

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    This one is still in my catalog. Logged 25 hours and never got very far. I loved it though.

    I would love seeing them try to tackle different settings.

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    HH

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    #21  Edited By HH

    i'd like to be able to level out and control the camera more during my turn, the same way it behaves when it cuts to those slo-mo movies when you hit sometimes. no idea if that's possible, but it's got sky and full backdrops in those cut-aways, and they're all map accurate.

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    Ares42

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    First thing that comes to mind is a wider tech tree. EU/EW became sorta one-note after a while. Also more enemies etc really, just a bigger campaign in general. Thinking back Apoc was always my favorite, but while I don't know if all the city stuff is the best I'd really love to see them re-do the scenario of researching and understanding the alien culture, technology etc and eventually going on the offense, sending expeditions to invade their world.

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    thomasnash

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    @stinger061 said:

    I think having the enemy play by the same rules is the big one. The fact that the aliens got a free move as soon as you encountered them was really annoying in Enemy Unknown and often left you on the back foot at the start of encounters.

    A lot of people say this, but I don't really understand this complaint. I mean, if you could shoot at aliens right off the bat, you could completely trivialize every single enemy that utilizes cover, because if you catch them early in your turn you have 6+ shots at a group of enemies standing out in the open with zero ability to dodge your hits. Also, they already do basically play by your rules; if an enemy stumbles into you during their turn, then they can't attack you in that turn either. I am totally fine with having to deal with enemies scrambling for cover, rather than suddenly being rushed, flank-shot and having zero ability to deal with it. Seriously, imagine a scenario where you're scouting for enemies, finish your turn, and then at the start of the Alien turn they rush in, flank all your dudes and mow you all down. THAT would be "playing by the same rules" if enemy aliens weren't allowed to scramble for cover.

    Aside from that though, i'll definitely echo the comments that i'd love to see the devs take some more inspiration from Long War. Honestly, i'm so attached to Infantry, Gunners, Engineers, Scouts, Giant Mobs, multiple Base Assaults, new map spawns, unique MEC classes, crazy extra items and extensive rebalancing, I don't know if I could just go back to the kind of tactical selection we have in Vanilla EU/EW.

    I agree, I actually like the way the discovery of enemies works, because it means you have to start thinking about flanking manouvers, trying to drive enemies into disadvantageous positions. It prevents it becoming a case of just moving everyone forward one and then hitting shoot (I think a lot of the difficulty plateau at the end of the game is because your troops get so good that this becomes a feasible strategy).

    I think that difficulty plateau is the thing I'd most like to see addressed.

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    SecondPersonShooter

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    They should make a multiplayer mode that isn't stupidly complicated and impossible to get into

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    MocBucket62

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    #25  Edited By MocBucket62

    I also want to point out that on the bottom of that Advent Future page, it says "2 days until the truth is revealed". We're gonna find out on June 1 if this is an XCOM sequel or a totally new IP. Though its really likely its a new XCOM.

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    jslack

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    Love me some XCOM! All I want though, is to be able to skip the damn enemy animations. Drives me absolutely crazy, makes it impossible for me to reply through Enemy Unknown again.

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    Mirado

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    @zevvion said:

    I'm an XCOM fanatic. I have over 400 hours in Enemy Unknown and over 500 in Enemy Within. I should feel terrible about that, but I couldn't feel better about it. I love the game to death.

    I have many wishes for a sequel, though I thought they could crank out more juice for the current one. I am totally down for more of the same, hoping it will have less game breaking bugs. However, I would really like it if the Aliens themselves improved their tech too, based on certain factors. Maybe not so much based on time like introducing new aliens does, but maybe based on certain objectives that you fail and they succeed. I would like it if some missions were objective based, but geared towards not being able to complete all objectives in that particular mission and having to make choices where to focus your efforts. Based on the objectives you failed, the aliens would improve their tech in certain aspects. This would lead you to make choices to basically allow them to improve their tech in area's you deem the least damaging to you.

    Also, I hope EXALT immediately makes an appearance instead of having to wait for DLC. I do hope that they go beyond the two levels of EXALT troops this time though. They should add an experimental plasma level of EXALT troops, and perhaps also experimental mechanized ones. All less worthy than XCOM of course, in some respect. But the current EXALT missions just become boring later in the game.

    I would also actually love it if they implemented a nemesis system of some kind, where it is no longer required to kill every enemy on the map to finish a mission all the time, but if you (accidentally) let one live, they come back in future missions with more perks, health and aim. Basically raising their rank.

    Also, I would jizz all the pants in the world if they made a coopertive campaign. That would be so bad ass. Maybe not even having to play at the same time. Something where your buddy can be under attack when he is not online and you defending his base or something like that. When he'd log back in, he'd see you defended his base successfully or something.

    Did you ever try the Long War mod? Among other things, it changes how aliens introduce new units; they can go on abduction or resource gathering missions, which will propel their tech forward if you do not intercept and stop them, and they will take dead/left behind XCOM members on failed missions to interrogate/experiment on, also boosting their tech. The campaign can really get away from you if you keep leaving soldiers behind or allowing UFOs to escape, and the number/kind of troops they can throw at you is based on how many resources you've sapped from them over the course of the game.

    It also introduces a fatigue system in your troops, meaning you can't keep sending the same A-Team in for ever mission. You need at least a 30 man roster to handle the volume of missions the game can throw at you (squad size is expanded to a max of eight, with 10 on a base assault and 12 for the Temple Ship), and with the expanded interceptor game (many extra types of UFOs which go on many different kinds of missions), it forces you to prioritize which missions you need to go on. The aliens can send multiple Terror missions to a country in the span of a few weeks in order to break its resistance; when you lose one, the aliens set up a base that you can raid in order to bring the country back to XCOM, and any nation outside of XCOM will feed the aliens extra resources.

    EXALT also gets a boost; as the game progresses, they get perks in the same way your troops do (two overwatch shots, reflexes, etc) as well as the general aliens (you don't want to see Thin Men with Lightning Reflexes, Squadsight and Low Profile). This makes EXALT a real pain in the ass for a lot longer. The Aliens can assault XCOM HQ multiple times if you let them build up too much of a lead on you.

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    Trenox

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    I absolutely adored the last xcom + expansion but i never dug the artstyle - i would like something less comic-booky and more scfi-fy although i dont expect that to happen.

    And yeah fully procedural levels would be great and all but it does put some restrictions in. I would like them to completely skip missions that are always 100% the same though as they feel very grindy upon replay.

    Other than that i just want more XCOM!

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    SomberOwl

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    #29  Edited By SomberOwl

    Man I'd be super down for more XCOM on the next gen. Basically more of the same would be fine for me. One addition I would make though would be more character customisation to really distinguish who's who on the field.

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    Zevvion

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    @mirado: Yeah, I didn't like that mod at all. You basically have to read online how the aliens 'advance in tech' and how that works, because none of it is made transparent in the game itself. You suddenly face 21 health Thin Men and have no idea how or why that happened. They also added a ton of useless stuff and introduced absolutely ridiculous randomized systems which made it impossible to finish the game based on dice rolls. I had one game going that lasted more than 50 hours. It got way boring, but because of random rolls I wasn't able to finish the game. From the moment I was allowed to finish the game, which was around hour 25, it took me another 25 hours of random rolls to not go in my favor which made it impossible to finish the game.

    In addition to game breaking systems like that, I didn't like the overall progression. It was much better before. It's a mod, so I should have an 'oh well, I guess this just isn't for me' attitude, but reading them basically saying: yeah, if you think any part of this mod is broken then you aren't hardcore enough like us, left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

    So I'll say this: it has good ideas. I just hope an XCOM sequel implements good ideas well and doesn't make them suck like in Long War.

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    LackingSaint

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    #31  Edited By LackingSaint

    @zevvion: How long ago did you play Long War? It's still in Beta, and they're making substantial improvements with each new release. At this point, it's really far less random than the Vanilla game, because the aliens will only progress in their levels of tech based on how well you are able to handle them (which can be tracked through how much Meld you're getting from canisters), and particularly hard missions require the aliens to 'save up' by putting out a few easy missions, so you know what's going on. Especially in comparison to Impossible Difficulty in the Vanilla game, you really need to play the RNG game FAAAR less, because unlike Vanilla your troops immediately have a lot of options in those first couple of months, rather than just "Well i'm Hunkered in Full Cover because I can't move without being overwatch-shot, I hope this Sectoid doesn't one-hit-kill me!" And of course, there are a lot of people who have beaten Long War on Impossible Ironman difficulty at this point, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they're all very good at the game; it relies on luck to an extent, just like EU and EW, but you can make any situation go your way with the right tactics.

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    twigger89

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    @lackingsaint: Last time I tried Long War I was having issues with the mod (mostly to do with incredibly long saving/loading times, and the occasional crash) that added to the added difficulty of Long War make it not a fun experience. Is it more stable now and is there a place where I can concisely learn what changes they made between the game and the mod?

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    LackingSaint

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    #33  Edited By LackingSaint

    @twigger89: Yeah, i've played a good 200+ hours of Long War, and I can sympathize with having to deal with unruly load-times and crashes, but thankfully the most recent versions seem to have very little of that. Crashes and bugs aren't unheard of, just as they weren't in EU or EW, but it's gotten a lot better. Also, there is a comprehensive wiki detailing every new item, mechanic and rebalance, as well as a change-log for each version of LW. You can find it here!

    Obviously Long War is not for everyone, but I do really recommend that big fans of EU/EW try to 'tough it out' for the first few hours and get a feel for it. It can be really jarring at first having to suddenly deal with all these things that have been changed and added (took me about 20 hours to really get to grips with it, to be honest), but the level of depth is just so much more rewarding once you start to gel with it. And most importantly, use the Dynamic War / Not So Long War Second Wave Option for your first playthrough. If there's one things just objectively terrible about Long War for a newcomer, it's that the standard playthrough is - not overestimating here - over 100 hours, and that's a playthrough that you can Game Over at any point if you have a bad enough month. By default, Dynamic War (or Not So Long War for older versions of the game) cuts that to about half, which is a lot more manageable.

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    twigger89

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    @lackingsaint: Thanks for the info man, I will definitely give it another shot. I definitely like the idea of a more complex xcom, I just hope it isn't so complex that it becomes more tedious than tactical.

    Have you ever played Xenonauts? It is an indy game made in the mold of the original xcom and while it lacks the production values of enemy unknown/within it has a tactical complexity that makes it more of a struggle. It's not as user friendly but if you like a more difficult xcom experience I suggest you check it out.

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    LackingSaint

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    #35  Edited By LackingSaint

    @twigger89: I gave Xenonauts a shot a few months ago and it didn't really click (I guess for whatever reason I felt less immersed in the experience, and immersion is really important for me with games), but I definitely want to go back and give it another try when I have time. Thanks for the suggestion!

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    mikemcn

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    @zevvion said:

    @mirado: Yeah, I didn't like that mod at all. You basically have to read online how the aliens 'advance in tech' and how that works, because none of it is made transparent in the game itself. You suddenly face 21 health Thin Men and have no idea how or why that happened. They also added a ton of useless stuff and introduced absolutely ridiculous randomized systems which made it impossible to finish the game based on dice rolls. I had one game going that lasted more than 50 hours. It got way boring, but because of random rolls I wasn't able to finish the game. From the moment I was allowed to finish the game, which was around hour 25, it took me another 25 hours of random rolls to not go in my favor which made it impossible to finish the game.

    In addition to game breaking systems like that, I didn't like the overall progression. It was much better before. It's a mod, so I should have an 'oh well, I guess this just isn't for me' attitude, but reading them basically saying: yeah, if you think any part of this mod is broken then you aren't hardcore enough like us, left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

    So I'll say this: it has good ideas. I just hope an XCOM sequel implements good ideas well and doesn't make them suck like in Long War.

    I really dumbed down the mod difficulty for some of those reasons. I'm fine with them making something that can be really tough, or even tough be default. But the fact that I have to go into ini settings and fiddle around so that I can actually enjoy Long War is BS. The easy setting should be easy, and the normal setting should be the difficulty they think the mod should be. Don't talk down to people for wanting more xcom with a well balanced challenge. I think the systems they added were decent, it's just nonsensical to say that 'we made it hard for everyone because thats what we want, fuck you'

    Real game design is making a game that offers a fair challenge to everyone. Making stuff super hard is damn easy, and not worth bragging about.

    Hopefully the new xcom will offer more depth but the same level of polish when it comes to difficulty options and whatnot.

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    Ravelle

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    @trenox said:

    I absolutely adored the last xcom + expansion but i never dug the artstyle - i would like something less comic-booky and more scfi-fy although i dont expect that to happen.

    And yeah fully procedural levels would be great and all but it does put some restrictions in. I would like them to completely skip missions that are always 100% the same though as they feel very grindy upon replay.

    Other than that i just want more XCOM!

    X-Com with the art style of Invisible Inc? Yes Please.

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    KentonClay

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    My dream scenario is that they make it all mechs all the time, but maybe that's just the Front Mission sized hole in my heart talking.

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    Zevvion

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    #39  Edited By Zevvion

    @lackingsaint: I believe it has been about 6 months since I played it. To add contrast, it was still called 'Not So Long War' when I was playing. But this is a good example of exactly what I'm talking about: that mod is by design roughly 30 hours long and drags for more than 30-80 hours after that because of randomness. It felt completely unbalanced. And then you go check the option for Not So Long War, because obviously you want to cut the random grinding down, and they added the flavor text: 'for casual players'. You go look up their full mod description, and they are basically saying, yeah, if you don't want to grind this shit out you're just a casual and not hardcore like us.

    The entire design philosophy of Long War is pretty sickening. Modding enemies to have higher health is not great difficulty scaling when it's so random. Don't even get me started on the significantly lowered chance to hit on fighter crafts. I get they don't have a testing crew to arrive at the conclusion that a base hit % of 70 was the correct answer for starting gear, but 40%? Really? You know, my first 3 games of Long War were lost because I couldn't shoot down a single UFO. I couldn't research better weapons to shoot them down because I was lacking the materials that were only received through UFO missions. Which I couldn't do, because the base hit % was so jacked that you had to get really lucky to shoot one down in the first place.

    So I go to the forums, and there is already a piece written saying something like: if you think the game is unbalanced you're just a casual player and should uninstall this mod. You're not hardcore enough to deal with loss.

    Really? Yes, that mod is, or at least was, completely unbalanced and it didn't make it fun. If I knew how to mod games, I could make it even more 'hardcore' than they did. That's so not something to brag about. The challenge lies in creating something that offers a challenge. Not something that makes it impossible to beat if certain dice rolls don't go in your favor.

    I'd like to hear how they exactly made it 'far' less RNG heavy than vanilla? Because it was sure the other way around when I played it. There's nothing in Vanilla that makes it impossible to finish due to dice rolls. While finishing Long War depends entirely on a dice roll.

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    Mirado

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    @zevvion: @mikemcn:Maybe it's changed since I last played it, but I never had any issues involving dice rolls determining whether or not I could keep playing. The secret with UFOs was always to run with multiple fighters in one area (especially at the start, as your base level ships didn't stand much of a chance), and to land at least one hit on the enemy before breaking off (one hit would lower the chance of UFO continuing on its mission to 50%, really reducing the amount of resources and panic the aliens can generate). You also had to prioritize UFOs that were on a high trajectory (as that meant they were hunting your satellites) since your fighter compliment was so limited. As long as you have satellite coverage, you can catch the ships when they land, allowing you to take out even battleship class UFOs with your ground team very early on (a huge boost in the early game).

    Now, as for the difficulty being inaccessible and the community's reaction towards people who want it a bit easier: I completely agree. The mod turns the game into a brutal slog (which is what I wanted) but gives no option to accommodate players who want it easier, and the reaction towards those players is needlessly hostile. It also does very little to explain its systems, although I attribute that towards the inherent limitations of modding a game (a full release would have had its own tutorials embedded, but as it stands you have to make due with reading change logs).

    I brought up Long War because it solves a major problem I had with Enemy Unknown/Within: even on Ironman Impossible with the Second Wave options, the end game is just far too easy. Squadsight Double Tap snipers in flying armor just demolished the end game to the point that it becomes boring. Long War fixes that by rebalancing the classes, increasing the enemy difficulty (not just health but adding many of the same perks that your troops receive), modifying the pace at which new enemies are introduced, and forcing you to level up a much deeper pool of soldiers. You can't run the same four snipers and two scouts on every mission, the game just won't let you. Most of the old tactics stop working; no more walls of overwatch fire, as one alien with lightning reflexes will eat up half of your shots.

    I would love to see them implement some of Long War's ideas in a new game, with a more comprehensive explanation of the systems involved and a wider range of difficulty to accommodate all players.

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    LackingSaint

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    #41  Edited By LackingSaint

    @zevvion: I totally understand your frustrations, but just to point a few things out;

    • The devs have never once said that the campaigns should last "roughly 30 hours". They wanted it to be a longer experience, hence "Long War", and 30 hours would be like 3 days of playing, which isn't a huge amount really.
    • All fighter crafts improve in their aim as you take down enemy ships. While 40% might seem harsh (it's actually 55% if you go Aggressive, which you really should in the early-game when your ships have poor aim), if it started at something like 70% then you really wouldn't have much motivation to get invested in your more experienced pilots, and the entire Defensive/Balanced/Aggressive shooting system would be sort of pointless because you'd just go with your 70% Defensive.
    • Not shooting down UFOs in Long War's early game doesn't prevent you getting UFO missions, because half the time they create a Landing Mission anyway. It may have been something poorly balanced in older versions, or you just got very unlucky. The game isn't actually designed for you to need to shoot down every UFO, either, because just doing damage alone to ships will often harm the aliens' resources.
    • Again, enemy health scaling is not random. Leaders in groups might have a bump in health, but everything else scales exactly with how well the aliens are doing (how many UFO missions they complete, how often you're able to clear a mission yourself).
    • RE: RNG in Vanilla game - Have you played Ironman Impossible in XCOM: Enemy Unknown, recently? The first couple of months in the game are almost entirely luck-based, because all enemies have a massive bump in aim and all of your troops have horrible starting health (with you being at least a month away from decent armour) and mediocre weapons. Low-cover is entirely useless unless you Hunker Down (and even then is horribly unreliable), unlike Long War which bumps up the defense-bonus and makes Low-cover viable, and almost every enemy in the game will one-shot you until you get better armour. In Long War, enemies almost never one-shot you unless they manage a crit, as I said before the cover elements have higher innate defense, and you have the Heavy/Light selection of armors for your troops off the bat to give them some damage reduction. You also get 2 inventory slots off the back, giving you the versatility to bring cover-destroying grenades, smoke grenades for overwatch-running, panic-proofing trophies, aim-bonus miniscopes, bulletproof vests, battle-scanners and a variety of other devices that give you additional options in the early game. And of course, you start with 6 troops standard, further increasing your options. Finally, there's the mere fact that in both Long War and Vanilla you can of course have a "mission from hell", where you're just unlucky as hell and nothing goes right. The difference is, in Long War failing a mission is a setback. In Enemy Unknown, if you fail a mission you might as well restart the entire campaign. Long War is specifically designed so that a dice roll doesn't doom your campaign, because unlike EU any number of setbacks can occur without it fucking you up completely.
    • To repeat that; in Long War, failing a 'crucial' dice roll (which, when you have 6 troops with 12 items between them, would have meant you were taking a hell of a gamble with that dice-roll if you seriously had no back-up plan) and failing a mission because of it DOES NOT FUCK UP YOUR CAMPAIGN. It definitely makes things hard, but you can fight back because it doesn't automatically mean you give up most of a continent usually (and even if it does, you can actually retake countries with Long War). In Enemy Unknown, failing a crucial dice roll (which is much more likely when you have just 4 squaddies with 1 item each) and failing a mission is basically a game over. You can maybe make it back if you fail one mission. If you fail two? You must be a hell of a player to still win the game. If you fail three? Forget about it.

    Again, I understand the frustration, I appreciate that you felt cheated by the game, but I feel like you're somewhat villifying the community and especially the developers because you had a poor first experience. This isn't "lol troll difficulty" where they just throw out 50HP Sectoids in the first month, the developers have been putting years into creating a much more in-depth, versatile package, with a variety of troop-builds, unique helpful items, and unique encounters like new map-spawns and Boss Mobs. If it's not for you, it's not for you, but the LW Devs are putting a huge amount of time and effort into making a mod that gives you as many new experiences and interesting options as possible. They aren't leaning back in their chairs looking at message-boards and going "Bahaha, stupid casuals can't beat our game".

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    Zevvion

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    @lackingsaint: They did exactly that though. It was even in the game text. They never said the game was 30 hours, but from my experience with it, it took me roughly 30 hours to get to a point where finishing the game should have been viable. But after another 30 hours after that, I still wasn't able to because I didn't get the psi soldier that I needed and something else which I forget. I distinctly remember putting all my crafts on AGG, and they never shot anything down. And yes, that totally does prevent you from completing the game, because you won't get resources needed to buy things, research things, build things and your satellites keep getting shot down because of it. I had no UFO's land, and I know for a fact I wasn't 'extremely unlucky' with that, because there were tons of people who experienced the same. The reaction was: 'well, yeah... you can lose the game so just start over when it's lost'. That's shitty design to me. Also, cover destroying grenades? That's one change I also didn't like about Long War. Grenades were utterly useless. They explained in the log that damage was now random based on how close to the center the alien is in the blast radius. That seems fine, but that is absolutely not how it worked. It would've been great if it worked like that. Instead, it was just 100% random. I threw AP and HE grenades at aliens where they were almost at the center of the blast radius and it did 0-2 damage to them. HE grenades also never destroyed cover for me. Even the thinnest piece of debris often only fell after 3 grenades. It just made the whole explosives thing less tactical, because your options were limited further. In vanilla, I sometimes threw a grenade to create a hole in a wall so my sniper could have LOS to an enemy or a friendly MC unit for Disabling Shot. I was never able to pull anything like that off in Long War, as I threw 2 grenades and the wall was still standing proudly. They made so many more systems randomized, and I just can't see the fun in that. 'It's more hardcore'. Because it's more random? I don't get that. If you remove the randomness added to Long War, it is actually easier than Vanilla. And yes, being dependent on random elements for challenge isn't that great for me and leads to frustration. Especially because I was watching Let's Plays and seeing people having completely different experiences. For instance, I saw one guy, Marbozir, getting all the luck I never got. His grenades did 5 damage almost half the time, where mine often did 1 in the same situations. His grenades actually destroyed cover, mine never did. He shot down UFO's even on BAL early in the game. The very first in fact.

    In the end, I just restarted and restarted until I also got a lucky run. And then my luck ran out and couldn't finish the game. I just don't get how this is great design. Like I said, I think the ideas Long War has are fantastic, but they are just not well implemented to be enjoyable.

    I will admit I am curious to give it another look to see if it has changed in a meaningful way from since I played it, just because I did like the overall idea and if they actually got it to work properly it would be pretty cool to play through.

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    sparky_buzzsaw

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    If they can somehow make it more feasible to approach the game through multiple routes rather than the one or two formulas that worked, I'll be really stoked for this. More tech and soldier upgrade options is great, sure, but they need to all be viable ways to play as opposed to just relying on a couple of hovering snipers to kill everything. And the mid-game needs to be much meatier and randomized. Procedurally generated maps is almost a must for any game of this sort at this point, and lengthening up the campaign length would go a long ways towards keeping me interested. Beyond that, I'd like to see some of the elements of Apocalypse added in, namely the various corporate factions and the ideas behind the super-cities. That's just a personal desire, though, and wouldn't much affect my buying decision either way.

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    ch3burashka

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    XCOM: Part Deux would be... interesting.

    I played a few dozen hours across a few games (after fucking up the first few) and I kind of got what I wanted. It was an oldie but goodie, and unless they mix up the formula I don't think I'll be too interested.

    No fucking idea why, but I still remember a single Canadian sniper named Renee Croix(?) from my very first game. After fucking it up and starting over, I was sad she was gone. No idea why.

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    planetfunksquad

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    #45  Edited By planetfunksquad

    Just got announced over at IGN. PC exclusive, because fuck me.

    http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/06/01/xcom-2-announced-ign-first

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    MosaicM80

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    #46  Edited By MosaicM80

    @planetfunksquad said:

    Just got announced over at IGN. PC exclusive, because fuck me.

    http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/06/01/xcom-2-announced-ign-first

    Really enjoyed the new trailer. Apparently XCOM has a Heli Carrier now?! Awesome! Also, hearing "Welcome back commander" gave me chills. Can't wait for this! One of my favorite series of all time.

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    thom_hill

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    Not since evra's goal against bayern munich have i gone so fast from joy to despair

    unknown and within are brilliant on console in the top 5 games of all time for me

    guess i can play it on my mac?

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    AlKusanagi

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    Not underwater.

    0/5

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    brandondryrock

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    Holy crap, a PC exclusive! That's exciting.

    I played a lot of Enemy Unknown, but I was really bad at it. I'm looking forward to seeing more of the sequel. Hopefully they can go all out with the graphics since they won't have to worry about consoles.

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    planetfunksquad

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    #50  Edited By planetfunksquad

    @thom_hill: This. My PC is sadly no longer of this world, and I don't have the cash for a new one. If it'll run on my macbook that'd be great, but I doubt it. I don't get why there wouldn't be a console version. Maybe it'll get ported after launch, but fuck man. It suuuuucks.

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