Destructoid Article: How Microsoft Ruined Fun for Everybody

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#1 Edited by Dany (7887 posts) -
#2 Posted by animateria (3252 posts) -

Jim is being Jim as usual I'd say.

I can't take his stuff seriously, and I don't think anyone else should either.

I know a Destructoid vibe when I see one.

#3 Posted by oldschool (7264 posts) -

Ruined fun for everybody?


I hardly think that is true.  They are not entertaining me in any meaningful way, but they haven't ruined anything for me.  They enterain a very large number of people.

That is my opinion on the headline, which screams for attention.  When I read the article I may think differnetly, but I doubt it.
#4 Edited by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -

Microsoft ruined it for every one, by testing the untested waters of console DLC by asking us to and seeing if we would pay 15 dollars for an amazing game called braid so they could set a precident that decent worthwhile games received the right price point based upon their quality...?

I HATE YOU MICROSOFT HOW DARE YOU DO THAT!

P.S: I hate you Microsoft how dare you try to make money! you should be in the business of...business to give me shit for free dammit!
P.P.S: im just preempting people with the above P.S.

#5 Edited by oldschool (7264 posts) -

On reading, his comments seem more directed at the games consumer than it is to Microsoft.  Microsoft only exist for its customers.  I hate Microsoft as much as the next Microsoft hater, being and Apple and Nintendo man, but sheesh, that was just a rant, notthing more.  His points are largely accurate and true, but so what.  I have a 360 and I only buy what I want - not a lot really.

#6 Posted by C2C (855 posts) -
At first I thought this article was gonna be filled with the usual ham fisted sarcasm that Sterling is known for.  Pleasantly it isn't as filled with sarcasm as most of his other stuff, but really there was only one point I could really agree with him.  And thats the shoddy hardware.  The rest of his complaints are either "meh" at best, or petty at worst. 

Overall, better than his usual articles; that isn't saying much in the first place though.  
#7 Posted by Manatassi (791 posts) -

I have to say thats just stupid. Really Really Stupid.


If anything the ass backwards logic used in that article is completely wrong. Microsoft have brought a huge amount to the gaming industry and are the company who have pushed console games into the online space, offered choices such as using your own soundtracks over any games and opened up the entire industry to the idea of Indie games and small online releases rather than having to pay $60 for a remake of monkey island. 

Yes you could argue that Premium Themes are too expensive, well don't buy them? This whole ridiculous reaction to small useless items costing money is absurd and to blame it all on Microsoft is just idiotic. In-fact if I recall Sony have been more than happy to proliferate the whole micro transactions with all the absurd things you can pay for (see cowboy hat) in Home, not to mention Nintendo's shocking overpricing of Virtual console releases and flooding their store with hugely priced Shovelware.

If anything Microsoft are the company who are ripping people off the least and get the online space and have innovated with their console the most for the traditional games playing market this generation. 

I'm not going all fanboy I just dislike the reasoning or lack of that is in this article and the absurd Attack the evil Microsoft mentality. Microsoft have done allot of good for the Games industry as have Nintendo and Sony. And having a go at them and making pictures of Bill Gates burning in Hell as an evil Devil at the head of an article like that is just immature. 
#8 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -

What a moron. This is the kind of shit I hate sites like Kotaku and Destructoid writing, because their retard readers actually beleive this tripe and when you're readers make up a significant portion of the market, you shouldn't be allowed to get away with such ridiculous articles. Utterly utterly irresponsible.

The article is one sided, nonsensical, and twists facts to it's own needs. What makes these guys better than people like Jack Thompson, or MADD? Or other videogame haters? I'll tell you what, nothing. They are the same, hypocritical, self-indulgent windbags.

I'm not even going to bother analysing any individual parts of the article, it's utter nonsense and besides being YET ANOTHER article complaining about hardware errors, it bares no relevance, nor any purpose other than to draw people to their shitty blog, and to rile those already reading into a mouth-foaming fury against 'The Man' who is only doing what any company exists to do, strike a balance between trying new things, keeping it's customer base happy, and making lots anf lots of money. It's about time consumers woke up and realised that and stopped kissing their own asses and rallying to take on these 'evil corperations' after all, without them you wouldn't have your precious *insert product here*

#9 Edited by Tebbit (4461 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
"What a moron. This is the kind of shit I hate sites like Kotaku and Destructoid writing, because their retard readers actually beleive this tripe and when you're readers make up a significant portion of the market, you shouldn't be allowed to get away with such ridiculous articles. Utterly utterly irresponsible.The article is one sided, nonsensical, and twists facts to it's own needs. What makes these guys better than people like Jack Thompson, or MADD? Or other videogame haters? I'll tell you what, nothing. They are the same, hypocritical, self-indulgent windbags.I'm not even going to bother analysing any individual parts of the article, it's utter nonsense and besides being YET ANOTHER article complaining about hardware errors, it bares no relevance, nor any purpose other than to draw people to their shitty blog, and to rile those already reading into a mouth-foaming fury against 'The Man' who is only doing what any company exists to do, strike a balance between trying new things, keeping it's customer base happy, and making lots anf lots of money. It's about time consumers woke up and realised that and stopped kissing their own asses and rallying to take on these 'evil corperations' after all, without them you wouldn't have your precious *insert product here* "

But seriously, (edit: my bad) $50 bucks a year for what is for all intents and purposes a glorified Chat room and download center?
I know it's not a lot of money, but it's still money.
#10 Posted by Radar (888 posts) -

I don't agree with the title of that article at all but I have a hard time objecting to some of the points he brought up (though they are points that have been beaten into the ground). Rising XBLA prices, double dipping with ads and a subscription fee, faulty hardware, copying Nintendo, forcing devs to charge for something they intended to be free.

He doesn't even bother to bring up the good things MS has done to the gaming industry.

#11 Posted by Hamz (6846 posts) -

I love Jim Sterling, I really do.

#12 Edited by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Tebbit said:
"@The_A_Drain said:
"What a moron. This is the kind of shit I hate sites like Kotaku and Destructoid writing, because their retard readers actually beleive this tripe and when you're readers make up a significant portion of the market, you shouldn't be allowed to get away with such ridiculous articles. Utterly utterly irresponsible.The article is one sided, nonsensical, and twists facts to it's own needs. What makes these guys better than people like Jack Thompson, or MADD? Or other videogame haters? I'll tell you what, nothing. They are the same, hypocritical, self-indulgent windbags.I'm not even going to bother analysing any individual parts of the article, it's utter nonsense and besides being YET ANOTHER article complaining about hardware errors, it bares no relevance, nor any purpose other than to draw people to their shitty blog, and to rile those already reading into a mouth-foaming fury against 'The Man' who is only doing what any company exists to do, strike a balance between trying new things, keeping it's customer base happy, and making lots anf lots of money. It's about time consumers woke up and realised that and stopped kissing their own asses and rallying to take on these 'evil corperations' after all, without them you wouldn't have your precious *insert product here* "
But seriously, (edit: my bad) $50 bucks a year for what is for all intents and purposes a glorified Chat room and download center?I know it's not a lot of money, but it's still money. "

I'm not arguing that he does or does not have valid points. But that the tone of his argument is highly irresponsible and self indulgent, and a lot of what he is writing is speculative, opinionated, tripe.

I don't like, or agree with charging for multiplayer at all. But to argue that Microsoft havn't made significant advances in the industry, and helped it grow is just fucking wrong. Not even a flawed opinion, factually wrong.
 
Edit: Before I get any fanboy accusations, I will undoubtedly hold the same opinion, and the same specific views and grievances with any other articles written in this tone (or, the exact opposite tone, blind praise in ignorance of a companies mistakes or public relation disasters) about any major company. Not even specificly the games industry. This manner of writing is just not responsible when you command such an army of ass scratching baboons that call themselves consumers, yet are ready to take anything said by some opinion vendor as fact and noble truth.
#13 Posted by Tebbit (4461 posts) -
@The_A_Drain:
Thats the thing about Jim I guess. He veils his point in reams and reams of bullshittery ;)
#14 Edited by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -
@Radar said:
" I don't agree with the title of that article at all but I have a hard time objecting to some of the points he brought up (though they are points that have been beaten into the ground). Rising XBLA prices, double dipping with ads and a subscription fee, faulty hardware, copying Nintendo, forcing devs to charge for something they intended to be free.He doesn't even bother to bring up the good things MS has done to the gaming industry. "
I have one point to bring up.

Microsoft does not force developers to charge for DLC they give them a choice.

You can let the users pay for certification, hosting, bandwidth...etc or you can do it, Because in the end the developers don't gotta do squat beside make the content microsoft does pretty much all the certification which includes secondary beta testing, hosting the games on quite a few different servers *the dlc aren't located on a centralized server they are located on quite a few of the server farms microsoft has around the globe* provide the bandwidth for it.
We could get this stuff for free if the developer would pay up, because on psn if a developer wants to offer it for free more often then not they are footing the bill, or actually hosting the information them selves as a part of the psn network on their own server farm.
#15 Edited by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Tebbit:

Yeah, well, I cannot abide people who write in that fashion in a serious manner.

@WilliamRLBaker:

Just to interject, supposedly they do. But many (not all, just a few who have had massivly popular/anticipated games) have spoken out about Microsoft having the final say in what the prices are, and on occasion bumping it up. Epic for example stated they wanted certain content to be free, but that it was Microsofts decision at the end of the day. So you never know quite who to blame, MS or the publisher.

For the record though, I disagree with the notion that additional content should be free. I disagree with certain shady practicies involving taking content from the main games development as well however, but I think expecting, or feeling that extra content should be free is more than a little spoiled. Bottom line is it's a seperate product, regardless where the content came from, and the company can sell it how they like. I personally buy very little of it, but hey.
#16 Edited by JeffGoldblum (3704 posts) -

Some one could have said the same thing when Sony made their first console...
When it comes to hardware issues sophistication has always meant fragility a horse can walk minutes after birth, but a human or an ape is vulnerable for years. Its the sacrifice we make for a larger brain and the development time required for one. Of course the SNES and Genesis are much more reliable than the consoles of today. They were highly inferior hardware-wise.
Microsoft didnt ruin gaming they forced it to evolve yet again. The same way Sony did before them with the Playstation and the same way Nintendo did before that with the NES.

#17 Posted by Coleslaw893 (409 posts) -

Honestly, that was the best article I've read in a LONG time. I love my 360, I do, but I could not agree more with what he wrote. Especially the part about how a console should never evoke fear.

#18 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@JeffGoldblum said:
"Some one could have said the same thing when Sony made their first console...When it comes to hardware issues sophistication has always meant fragility a horse can walk minutes after birth, but a human or an ape is vulnerable for years. Its the sacrifice we make for a larger brain and the development time required for one. Of course the SNES and Genesis are much more reliable than the consoles of today. They were highly inferior hardware-wise."

I agree with the principal, but a lot of hardware from that day and age is just as unreliable, if not more than the 360.

Like the Sega CD, or the 32X, or some models of the 3DO etc etc.

And yeah, with the PS2 and numerous other consoles and pieces of technology, there have been hardware failure rates just as bad. The only reason people are latching onto the 360 is because it's current. When the next generation rolls around and Sony's is the most unreliable, or Nintendos, then people will be all "Ahhh fuck, shitty Nintendo/Sony, can't they make a good consoles?!?!?"

It's just knee-jerk bullshit, happens everytime a popular product is unreliable.
#19 Posted by HAMMERCLAW (298 posts) -

Believe me, Nintendo and Sega fans were just as tore up about another non-gaming corporate behemoth, that horned in on THEIR perfect world. They were marketing their own fledgling console, and it had the ridiculously silly-sounding name, "Play Station".  Can you believe it!?!

#20 Posted by iam3green (14390 posts) -

it is a good read. it has some good points on why microsoft sucks. i just got a ps3 i like the online play for it more then xbox live.

#21 Posted by PercyChuggs (1087 posts) -

Whine whine whine. I'm still having plenty of fun with all my games.

I honestly think gamers these days spend more time online bitching about games than they do actually playing them.

#22 Posted by Azteck (7449 posts) -

I won't even read it, I can pretty much guess what it says from what you people have told me.

I love my 360. I don't mind paying for LIVE. It gets good games and quite frankly, I won't die if my console RROD's and it's away for 2 weeks.

#23 Posted by PrimevilKneivel (78 posts) -

Fist off I'm not reading all of this crap but I will respond to a few choice turds.

"Nobody ever asked Microsoft to get into the console gaming market. In fact, the company's motivation for doing so wasn't even out of demand, or necessity, or consideration for the market, but simply to try and stick it to Sony. The Xbox exists to stop the PlayStation brand from succeeding, and MS essentially stuck its big nose into an industry that it didn't really have any business getting involved with. Now that it's here, we have to deal with it, but unfortunately Microsoft brought a lot of baggage, especially with the current generation."

You could say the same for Sony. I remember I time when we enjoyed a number of consoles released from Sega but thanks to Sony that came to an end.

"I remember when game consoles were associated with fun. Back before systems tried to do more than just allow us to play our damn videogames."

Or do you mean before systems could allow you do more. Again, Sony was the first to suggest that a games system should be more than just a game system.  And that's not a bad thing, they were right. but because this douche has a hardon for MS they must pay!

"Far be it from me to tell a business how to run itself. I'm a Libertarian,"

And yet you use sentences like "MS essentially stuck its big nose into an industry that it didn't really have any business getting involved with". To quote The Princess Bride, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Look, I get his main premise. It's predicated on two things, the RROD and the cost of stuff on live. Well here's my repost. They admitted they fucked up on the ring of death (more than Sony will ever do with any product line) and shelled out a shitload to the motherfucking assload power of  dollars to fix it. They owened up, something we are not really accustomed to from big buisness and really should reward. And as for the cost of shit on live, well excuse me for chooseing a product that is cheaper to buy and gives me the option to not buy stupid shit from them later. Yes alot of the crap on live is a rip off, so is 60% of what my grocery store sells. But provideing me with options at a lower initial investment is what made xbox 360 dominant to the PS3 when nobody expected it too.

And a real liberatarian would understand that. 

#24 Posted by SuperfluousMoniker (2907 posts) -

Jim's wall of text just critted me for 999 damage.

#25 Posted by Godwind (2597 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
" I'm not arguing that he does or does not have valid points. But that the tone of his argument is highly irresponsible and self indulgent, and a lot of what he is writing is speculative, opinionated, tripe.  "
That is what you would expect from an editorial.  Also, what is wrong with people being opinionated?  Clearly your opinions can be said to be just as slanderous as his own.

@The_A_Drain said:
"But to argue that Microsoft havn't made significant advances in the industry, and helped it grow is just fucking wrong. Not even a flawed opinion, factually wrong.  "
I don't recall Microsoft making significant changes to the video game industry.  That isn't it say they haven't added stuff to the industry, they just haven't made significant advances.

@The_A_Drain said:
" And yeah, with the PS2 and numerous other consoles and pieces of technology, there have been hardware failure rates just as bad. The only reason people are latching onto the 360 is because it's current. When the next generation rolls around and Sony's is the most unreliable, or Nintendos, then people will be all "Ahhh fuck, shitty Nintendo/Sony, can't they make a good consoles?!?!?"It's just knee-jerk bullshit, happens everytime a popular product is unreliable. "
I wouldn't say that their failure rates are just as bad.  Most of them are usually early launch stuff that gets fixed in a year or two.  After sending my PS2 and Gamecube back, I have never had a problem with my systems.  The 360 has been out for 4 years and new Xboxes are still having problems.  People have been going through at least 1 or 2 xboxes.  Some have reached to the point of 8.  That is unheard even by older standards.  The only exception is perhaps the NES, which had pin currosions




#26 Edited by Tebbit (4461 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
I agree with the principal, but a lot of hardware from that day and age is just as unreliable, if not more than the 360.Like the Sega CD, or the 32X, or some models of the 3DO etc etc.And yeah, with the PS2 and numerous other consoles and pieces of technology, there have been hardware failure rates just as bad. The only reason people are latching onto the 360 is because it's current. When the next generation rolls around and Sony's is the most unreliable, or Nintendos, then people will be all "Ahhh fuck, shitty Nintendo/Sony, can't they make a good consoles?!?!?"It's just knee-jerk bullshit, happens everytime a popular product is unreliable. "

How is it knee-jerk? The reason people are latching onto the 360's failure rate is because it is an awfully made console, one of the wost designed in the history of video game consoles, in my opinion (not the games or the system software or anything else mind, just in terms of hardware). Of course if next generation Sony or Nintendo consoles are the least reliable people have every right to say so. Last generation, the PS2 disc read errors were caused by the plastic gear that moves the laser being worn down by constant use, and it could be permanantly fixed by replacing it with a metal one. The 360 has things more inherently wrong with it's hardware. PS2 failure rate was around 10%, (which is still admittedly 15 million consoles) whereas the 360 is at least 30% if not more.
#27 Edited by Linkyshinks (9880 posts) -

Yeah, 360 is the worst designed console ever, there's no way you can compare it to earlier console failure rates, because those were tiny in comparison!, any suggestion to the contrary is nonsense.

The 360's failure rate, which we don't have official figures for globally [-with good reason!], I can well imagine is truly shocking.


#28 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -
@Tebbit said:
" @The_A_Drain said:
I agree with the principal, but a lot of hardware from that day and age is just as unreliable, if not more than the 360.Like the Sega CD, or the 32X, or some models of the 3DO etc etc.And yeah, with the PS2 and numerous other consoles and pieces of technology, there have been hardware failure rates just as bad. The only reason people are latching onto the 360 is because it's current. When the next generation rolls around and Sony's is the most unreliable, or Nintendos, then people will be all "Ahhh fuck, shitty Nintendo/Sony, can't they make a good consoles?!?!?"It's just knee-jerk bullshit, happens everytime a popular product is unreliable. "
How is it knee-jerk? The reason people are latching onto the 360's failure rate is because it is an awfully made console, one of the wost designed in the history of video game consoles, in my opinion (not the games or the system software or anything else mind, just in terms of hardware). Of course if next generation Sony or Nintendo consoles are the least reliable people have every right to say so. Last generation, the PS2 disc read errors were caused by the plastic gear that moves the laser being worn down by constant use, and it could be permanantly fixed by replacing it with a metal one. The 360 has things more inherently wrong with it's hardware. PS2 failure rate was around 10%, (which is still admittedly 15 million consoles) whereas the 360 is at least 30% if not more. "
Actually the DRE of the ps2 which i found to be just as pervasive as rrod *on a personal basis*
It was caused by more then just a plastic gear a plastic gear wearing down would not account for the DRE problems with brand new systems...ect There were quite a few problems with the laser assembly in the ps2 from downright faulty laser assemblies to the plastic gear wearing down over years of use, to actual dirt getting on the lens because the drive base wasn't sealed well, to the laser eye being easy to misaligned via shocks when it was set in vertical...etc
#29 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Godwind said:
"@The_A_Drain said:
" I'm not arguing that he does or does not have valid points. But that the tone of his argument is highly irresponsible and self indulgent, and a lot of what he is writing is speculative, opinionated, tripe.  "
That is what you would expect from an editorial.  Also, what is wrong with people being opinionated?  Clearly your opinions can be said to be just as slanderous as his own.

@The_A_Drain said:
"But to argue that Microsoft havn't made significant advances in the industry, and helped it grow is just fucking wrong. Not even a flawed opinion, factually wrong.  "
I don't recall Microsoft making significant changes to the video game industry.  That isn't it say they haven't added stuff to the industry, they just haven't made significant advances.

@The_A_Drain said:
" And yeah, with the PS2 and numerous other consoles and pieces of technology, there have been hardware failure rates just as bad. The only reason people are latching onto the 360 is because it's current. When the next generation rolls around and Sony's is the most unreliable, or Nintendos, then people will be all "Ahhh fuck, shitty Nintendo/Sony, can't they make a good consoles?!?!?"It's just knee-jerk bullshit, happens everytime a popular product is unreliable. "
I wouldn't say that their failure rates are just as bad.  Most of them are usually early launch stuff that gets fixed in a year or two.  After sending my PS2 and Gamecube back, I have never had a problem with my systems.  The 360 has been out for 4 years and new Xboxes are still having problems.  People have been going through at least 1 or 2 xboxes.  Some have reached to the point of 8.  That is unheard even by older standards.  The only exception is perhaps the NES, which had pin currosions"

No, it's not what I personally would expect from an editorial. Especially not one with as many blind, ignorant fucktard readers as sites like Joystiq, Kotaku and Destructoid. Whether people want to believe it or not, they actively affect a large percentage of the marker with their writing, and should be a damned site more responsible with their writings than "LOL we R just a blog!! It dunt mattorr lololol" instead they write whatever the fuck they want no matter the damage, these places are the Fox News, or The Sun Newspaper, or The News of the World of video games journalism and it pisses me off, even moreso when people act like they can't be faulted.

Your second point is shortsighted as well, Microsoft have made pushes and advances in a manner of different areas where Nintendo and Sony have not this generation. Sure you can argue that anybody could have, and would have made most of those pushes without Microsoft, but the bottom line is MS put it's neck out where others were not willing, and as a result we have a lot of great things we would not have otherwise had with videogames. Not to overestimate their contribution obviously, other companies have also made major strides, but to say they have contributed nothing is pure ignorance.

Also, as has been said, without official figures all we can do is speculate and while I beleive the 33% failure rate to have been true earlier on, I do not believe it to be remotely true anymore. We can only gauge from personal experience, and in my personal experience i've had more Sega Megadrives break on me than I have Xbox 360's.
#30 Edited by Emilio (3380 posts) -

Well I agree, and a lot of what he says is exactly what I think. Why are publishers and microsoft putting up shitty themes or gamer pics to be bought. On PC and PS3 this kind of thing is free. Advertisments on Live is really stupid too, though I pay for Live. Also, the themes suck and are way over priced. 15 dollars for these game? You're fucking crazy. He's half right, though. These games are larger in size, its still really stupid how Symphony of the Night can be bought for 10 dollars while something like Braid for 15 bucks, or Lost and the Damned is 20. Its really pushing it for a download with no physical copy.

Back to hardware, bugs like the ones the 360 has is just insulting. The Wii and PS3 are running so much better, and are multiple times quieter for what are supposed to be the most modern technological home entertainment machines.

And back to DLC, its fucking insulting to pay for shit that should already be in the game. Expansions are acceptable. They are created at a later time to continue support for a game. Think about the super expensive extra character skin or model pack or game mode, and then think of the real expansion that adds so much more to a game. I hate how microsoft pretty much forces these developers to charge for this stuff but I'm sure the publishers are getting a blast from the extra dough they're pocketing from items/weapons/characters that had to be unlocked by playing the game.

And one final thing... I forgot what I was gonna say! Oh well...

OH! I can't believe I actually paid for a Ninja Gaiden II costume pack. WOW.

#31 Edited by L33tfella_H (901 posts) -

I was gonna make a long-winded post about something...but then i realized it'd be a waste of a perfectly good 10 minutes for me.

#32 Posted by SgtReznor (210 posts) -

wait--- people are still listening to what that talentless ignorant trolling prick has to say?

#33 Posted by NoXious (1338 posts) -

This guy wants Sony to be the only player on the console market, he has no clue - simple as that.

Anyone would call him crazy if you'd replace Xbox with Linux and Playstation with Windows.

#34 Edited by ververdan0226 (1573 posts) -

Jim does his usual schtick of taking a somewhat valid truth an extrapolating it into an entire article that is pretty hilarious and well-written as always. But that's the whole thing, the article does make too big a deal about some issues that aren't necessarily relevant or even important, but they are present with Microsoft, Xbox and their business, which really isn't saying much I suppose. Hidden beneath the seething anger and raging sarcasm, you get some well-written and valid points that, though an issue, are stretched just a little bit too far. I like Jim and it's an intriguing article for sure.

But, as someone probably said before in this thread, it really is just Jim Sterling being Jim Sterling. I don't agree with all of what he has to say, but I hope he never changes, the fat, fanboy-stirring bastard, because however inflammatory some of his articles are, they often do have good thoughts underneath and are important in the way that they let our community and the Destructoid community have a discussion like this.

#35 Posted by TwoOneFive (9459 posts) -

great article. 

#36 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7615 posts) -
@Emilio said:
" Well I agree, and a lot of what he says is exactly what I think. Why are publishers and microsoft putting up shitty themes or gamer pics to be bought. On PC and PS3 this kind of thing is free. Advertisments on Live is really stupid too, though I pay for Live. Also, the themes suck and are way over priced. 15 dollars for these game? You're fucking crazy. He's half right, though. These games are larger in size, its still really stupid how Symphony of the Night can be bought for 10 dollars while something like Braid for 15 bucks, or Lost and the Damned is 20. Its really pushing it for a download with no physical copy.Back to hardware, bugs like the ones the 360 has is just insulting. The Wii and PS3 are running so much better, and are multiple times quieter for what are supposed to be the most modern technological home entertainment machines.And back to DLC, its fucking insulting to pay for shit that should already be in the game. Expansions are acceptable. They are created at a later time to continue support for a game. Think about the super expensive extra character skin or model pack or game mode, and then think of the real expansion that adds so much more to a game. I hate how microsoft pretty much forces these developers to charge for this stuff but I'm sure the publishers are getting a blast from the extra dough they're pocketing from items/weapons/characters that had to be unlocked by playing the game.And one final thing... I forgot what I was gonna say! Oh well...OH! I can't believe I actually paid for a Ninja Gaiden II costume pack. WOW. "
Themes on the PS3 cost money as well.  The 360 offers just as many free ones as Sony does :)

I'd also argue about DLC.  If developers want to create extra content to give us for a game after it's out, that's fine and has nothing to do with Microsoft - there's nothing stopping these developers from including all that content in the game from the get go if they wanted to, but if they're taking the time to develop new stuff, why shouldn't they charge us for it?  Yes, they're not the same size as expansion packs, but they're also a lot cheaper.  Personally, I loved the little strongholds, etc they added to Oblivion.  If it's content that's already in the game, and we're just paying for keys.. then that's terrible, but the majority of the time that isn't the case.. and even when it is, it's not Microsoft to blame there.  And while many developers have blamed Microsoft for "forcing them" to charge for said content, that doesn't explain why the same content costs the same amount on the PC and PS3.. and why is so much other content up on XBL free?  I've downloaded plenty of free little packs for games from Live, MS seem to have no problem with that.

I also have to say the problem with "ads" on the Dashboard is hugely exagerated.  I've never found them at all problematic or intrusive, infact some people might even call the Spotlight channel.. NEWS!.  It's one channel that talks about new content up on the marketplace, new demos available, interviews, DLC, or whatever.  It's not like they float around all over the dashboard and interfear with everything you do, in an attempt to sell you Pepsi.  They're on the one channel that can easily be avoided, and are purely game/marketplace related.  I do agree that the dashboard should boot straight to My Xbox, but it's definitely not the problem some make it out to be.
#37 Posted by Kush (8889 posts) -

The article is utter nonsense. That's it and that's all. I could write up an article with the same theme for both Nintendo and Sony. The hate MS gets for simply being MS is just ridiculous.

#38 Posted by DorkLord54 (2 posts) -

While I do agree with what he has to say about the RROD and that the 360 is the worst-made console ever (even XBOX magazines agree), its library of games is better than both the Wii and PS3. Last generation, that title went to Sony and this generation it goes to MSoft. However, I do agree that MSoft is the opidimee of corporate greed.

#39 Edited by WinterSnowblind (7615 posts) -
@DorkLord54 said:
" While I do agree with what he has to say about the RROD and that the 360 is the worst-made console ever (even XBOX magazines agree), its library of games is better than both the Wii and PS3. Last generation, that title went to Sony and this generation it goes to MSoft. However, I do agree that MSoft is the opidimee of corporate greed. "
Yeah, this is one part I agree with too.  The original Xbox was made like a brick, you could throw the thing down a flight of stairs with no ill effects.  The 360.. I'm almost afraid to touch at times.
But for the most part, I love what they've done with the 360 and the Xbox in general, especially in regards to Europe.  Sony and Nintendo still treat us like a third world country, but Microsoft never take more than a week to relase their games over here, they give us great support and even give us awesome collectors editions!

Not to say I don't like the Wii and PS3 as well, but the amount of support the 360 gets over here as opposed to the other two definitely helps.  (Nintendo doesn't even know we still exist).
And this article is just terrible.. Besides the obvious points, most of it could be leveled against Sony a few years back when they launched the Playstation and even against Nintendo.  Their tactics with the NES made it impossible for anyone else to compete, even Sega seriously struggled!
#40 Edited by TwoOneFive (9459 posts) -
@Kush said:
" The article is utter nonsense. That's it and that's all. I could write up an article with the same theme for both Nintendo and Sony. The hate MS gets for simply being MS is just ridiculous. "
huh?
uh. He hates a greedy corporation because it's a greedy corporations. yeah, thats ridiculous. yup. utter nonsense for feeling that way. uh-huh. 

@DorkLord54
said:
" While I do agree with what he has to say about the RROD and that the 360 is the worst-made console ever (even XBOX magazines agree), its library of games is better than both the Wii and PS3. Last generation, that title went to Sony and this generation it goes to MSoft. However, I do agree that MSoft is the opidimee of corporate greed. "
 To say it has a better library of games than PS3 is just bullshit. Its a complete matter of opinion. 
#41 Edited by Cerza (1653 posts) -

Yay Destructoid! I would have to say that I strongly disagree with the first half of that article and mostly agree with the second half. I do strongly agree with his closing remark, which is a really sad fact. The whole faulty console argument isn't rooted with Microsoft though. Yes the 360 is a mess from a design and hardware perspective. However, the one that he should be pointing the finger at for setting the precedent of sending cheaply made and defective systems to store shelves is Sony, because that's a precedent they starting with the original Playstation and took two console generations for them to learn their lesson if you could say they learned a lesson at all.

I agree with him in regards to the X-Box Live and NXE stuff.

#42 Posted by joslop500 (203 posts) -

If that's not a fanboy then I don't know what is.

#43 Edited by WinterSnowblind (7615 posts) -
@TwoOneFive said:
" @Kush said:
" The article is utter nonsense. That's it and that's all. I could write up an article with the same theme for both Nintendo and Sony. The hate MS gets for simply being MS is just ridiculous. "
huh?
uh. He hates a greedy corporation because it's a greedy corporations. yeah, thats ridiculous. yup. utter nonsense for feeling that way. uh-huh. 

@DorkLord54
said:
" While I do agree with what he has to say about the RROD and that the 360 is the worst-made console ever (even XBOX magazines agree), its library of games is better than both the Wii and PS3. Last generation, that title went to Sony and this generation it goes to MSoft. However, I do agree that MSoft is the opidimee of corporate greed. "
 To say it has a better library of games than PS3 is just bullshit. Its a complete matter of opinion. 
"
What exactly makes Sony and Nintendo any less "greedy and evil"?
Yes, Microsoft forced their way into the console market, but as has been pointed out several times now, Nintendo and Sony both did exactly the same thing, way back when.  And no, they did not do it with any more class.
#44 Edited by Booshka (37 posts) -

That's considered an article?  It read like a rant someone would post in a thread, or a conversation you would hear over voice chat in-game or on a podcast.  None of his points were well supported, nor well written, and he had a glaring bias that tons of people latch onto; Microsoft sucks.

#45 Posted by Manatassi (791 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:

No, it's not what I personally would expect from an editorial. Especially not one with as many blind, ignorant fucktard readers as sites like Joystiq, Kotaku and Destructoid. Whether people want to believe it or not, they actively affect a large percentage of the marker with their writing, and should be a damned site more responsible with their writings than "LOL we R just a blog!! It dunt mattorr lololol" instead they write whatever the fuck they want no matter the damage, these places are the Fox News, or The Sun Newspaper, or The News of the World of video games journalism and it pisses me off, even moreso when people act like they can't be faulted.Your second point is shortsighted as well, Microsoft have made pushes and advances in a manner of different areas where Nintendo and Sony have not this generation. Sure you can argue that anybody could have, and would have made most of those pushes without Microsoft, but the bottom line is MS put it's neck out where others were not willing, and as a result we have a lot of great things we would not have otherwise had with videogames. Not to overestimate their contribution obviously, other companies have also made major strides, but to say they have contributed nothing is pure ignorance.Also, as has been said, without official figures all we can do is speculate and while I beleive the 33% failure rate to have been true earlier on, I do not believe it to be remotely true anymore. We can only gauge from personal experience, and in my personal experience i've had more Sega Megadrives break on me than I have Xbox 360's. "
Well Said.
#46 Posted by choffy21 (1376 posts) -
@Jim Sterling said:
However, the Xbox 360 is kind of like a drunk driver getting into a horrible car crash, then pulling his passengers free of the wreckage and heroically saving their lives. Sure, they're incredibly grateful for the brave thing he did, but he shouldn't have been fucking drunk driving in the first place.
Pretty much sums up the article, and how I feel about Microsoft. They have no business being in the gaming industry, but what they've done to it has been good.
#47 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -
@WinterSnowblind said:
" @Emilio said:
" Well I agree, and a lot of what he says is exactly what I think. Why are publishers and microsoft putting up shitty themes or gamer pics to be bought. On PC and PS3 this kind of thing is free. Advertisments on Live is really stupid too, though I pay for Live. Also, the themes suck and are way over priced. 15 dollars for these game? You're fucking crazy. He's half right, though. These games are larger in size, its still really stupid how Symphony of the Night can be bought for 10 dollars while something like Braid for 15 bucks, or Lost and the Damned is 20. Its really pushing it for a download with no physical copy.Back to hardware, bugs like the ones the 360 has is just insulting. The Wii and PS3 are running so much better, and are multiple times quieter for what are supposed to be the most modern technological home entertainment machines.And back to DLC, its fucking insulting to pay for shit that should already be in the game. Expansions are acceptable. They are created at a later time to continue support for a game. Think about the super expensive extra character skin or model pack or game mode, and then think of the real expansion that adds so much more to a game. I hate how microsoft pretty much forces these developers to charge for this stuff but I'm sure the publishers are getting a blast from the extra dough they're pocketing from items/weapons/characters that had to be unlocked by playing the game.And one final thing... I forgot what I was gonna say! Oh well...OH! I can't believe I actually paid for a Ninja Gaiden II costume pack. WOW. "
Themes on the PS3 cost money as well.  The 360 offers just as many free ones as Sony does :)I'd also argue about DLC.  If developers want to create extra content to give us for a game after it's out, that's fine and has nothing to do with Microsoft - there's nothing stopping these developers from including all that content in the game from the get go if they wanted to, but if they're taking the time to develop new stuff, why shouldn't they charge us for it?  Yes, they're not the same size as expansion packs, but they're also a lot cheaper.  Personally, I loved the little strongholds, etc they added to Oblivion.  If it's content that's already in the game, and we're just paying for keys.. then that's terrible, but the majority of the time that isn't the case.. and even when it is, it's not Microsoft to blame there.  And while many developers have blamed Microsoft for "forcing them" to charge for said content, that doesn't explain why the same content costs the same amount on the PC and PS3.. and why is so much other content up on XBL free?  I've downloaded plenty of free little packs for games from Live, MS seem to have no problem with that.I also have to say the problem with "ads" on the Dashboard is hugely exagerated.  I've never found them at all problematic or intrusive, infact some people might even call the Spotlight channel.. NEWS!.  It's one channel that talks about new content up on the marketplace, new demos available, interviews, DLC, or whatever.  It's not like they float around all over the dashboard and interfear with everything you do, in an attempt to sell you Pepsi.  They're on the one channel that can easily be avoided, and are purely game/marketplace related.  I do agree that the dashboard should boot straight to My Xbox, but it's definitely not the problem some make it out to be. "

Infact i offers more free themes.
I currently have about 60 free themes on my 360 and there are quite a few others i've not downloaded and those that aren't available any more.

Right now on psn store there are 77 theme entries with about 10 containing 2 or more themes, this is a mix of pay for and free themes... so at most we have in there about 50-60 free themes.


#48 Posted by HAMMERCLAW (298 posts) -

It's Microsoft's fault that their hardware sucks, and that they obstinately refuse to do a modest redesign and fix it's problem. The idea that they "do not belong in the gaming industry" is idiotic, however. I'm sure that's how Nintendo fans felt when Sony jumped in. I've never understood people's blind loyalty to corporate behemoths, they don't work for, and don't even know they exist. The more options for the consumer, and more competition for their hard earned dollars, is good, not bad.

#49 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@HAMMERCLAW:

Precisely. What about how Atari fans felt when Nintendo jumped in?

It goes all the way back to the beginning, noone 'asked' anyone to step into the videogames industry, they all moved in because there's money to be made, that's how any business gets into anything.
#50 Edited by atomic_dumpling (2470 posts) -
"The most important bit of baggage is one we all know about by now, the fact that the Xbox 360 is a technical piece of shit"

I stopped reading right there. Is this what passes for journalism these days? How pathetic.

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