New Xbox requires an always-on connection to block used games

#51 Posted by LikeaSsur (1593 posts) -

There's absolutely no logic to blocking used games. This rumor has to be completely wrong.

If it isn't, then congratulations to whatever company pulls the trigger first, because it'll be too late to realize the gun was pointed at their head the whole time.

#52 Posted by Ravenlight (8011 posts) -

@FourWude said:

If the new consoles get anti-used game protection on them. Then I'm growing a neckbeard and building myself a gaming PC.

This is the lengths that MS and Sony will have pushed me too.

Actually, neckbeards are optional. With overclocking, you can make your PC generate enough heat to keep your neck warm.

#53 Edited by skrutop (3615 posts) -

That sounds a little farfetched to me. I'm not going to put a lot of faith on this rumor being true. Used game sales are a huge part of the videogame market. Even if publishers want to curb that behavior, they'd be stupid to alienate that many gamers through draconian DLC policies.

#54 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@Sooty said:

It's funny people can be up in arms about this but lament pirates, who like buyers of used games, do not give any money to the developer or publisher of the games they 'obtain'

Don't jump down my throat. Just saying that used games is no better than piracy in the eyes of the publishers and developers, and that's why systems like this may come into place.

edit: and I don't like how console people can be annoyed over this yet think it's fine on PC, or maybe you don't think it's fine but nobody seems to care until it affects them.

@K9 said:

I find this sentiment of "if this rumor is true I will go to pc gaming" puzzling since the used games market is nonexistent on PC front first and foremost.

Exactly, it's hilarious

What about when games go out of print? I had to get Darksiders used because no new prints where made.

I'm not judging anyone for buying used or pirating, do what you want, people!

I think both Sony and Microsoft need to get a grip with their digital game offerings too, they are so overpriced and they lose sales because nobody in their right mind is going to pay $40 for a 3+ year old game.

A lot of these companies complain about piracy and used games while overcharging for old titles / DLC.

#55 Posted by glyn (382 posts) -

@Sooty said:

It's funny people can be up in arms about this but lament pirates, who like buyers of used games, do not give any money to the developer or publisher of the games they buy.

Don't jump down my throat. Just saying that used games is no better than piracy in the eyes of the publishers and developers, and that's why systems like this may come into place.

Technically it is because you can purchase DLC.

#56 Posted by Humanity (10145 posts) -

Fine by me I don't usually play my Xbox games on planes or buses anyway.

#57 Posted by Ares42 (2800 posts) -

I can't imagine MS is that eager to lose customers. While there's surely some sort of math to be done when it comes to lost customers vs people that will convert to buying new games, I find it hard to believe that's gonna come out as a positive. Especially if people can still buy used games on a competing console. And that's not even mentioning the 10-20+% of current consoles that never ever went online, a large portion of those would be just straight up lost sales.

#58 Posted by HistoryInRust (6407 posts) -

I just wish there was some way the major used game retailers could be half-nelsoned into siphoning off a percentage of their ridiculous profit margins to the developers. Split the middle on this somehow, that way we're not stamping out an entire market one way or the other.

#59 Posted by Kung_Fu_Viking (717 posts) -

I'm not that bothered because I primarily use Steam right now, which does the exact same thing.

#60 Posted by Bocam (3833 posts) -

I hate buying used games. (mostly due to the price tag stickers that accompany them)

#61 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Yea, I'm not liking the always-on connection aspect of it. That'd lock out a ton of people who buy games new but, for whatever reason, can't connect their Xbox to the Internet.

#62 Posted by SomeJerk (3403 posts) -

Blocking used games in some kind of form is very possible, because there has been developer and publisher outcry (most of it behind the scenes) of how used games are worse than having their titles pirated. Rentals are on their way to extinction anyway and it's about time, you spoiled fucks - says the rest of the world. In a best case scenario this blocked game only faces a lock to one user-profile for a period of reasonable time, like a year tops - likely to happen from EA Activision pressure!
 
Requiring a constant internet connection in one way or another is also very possible. The console makers have all the numbers in the world of how many take their consoles online and how many have the ability to do so, but Microsoft have the power to push it as a requirement, they have pushed big changes onto customers in the past and will have no problem doing it again and besides, the 360 is no longer a games console to them. It's all about being online.
 
 All the while Sony are most likely not going to block used games or require a constant internet connection, because Japan..

#63 Posted by ExplodeMode (852 posts) -

Maybe this is their way of trying to get Sony to announce the same thing ('If we both do it, then it will work') and then they go 'haha just kidding', and then Sony is fucked.

Whoever launches with this is screwed. If both launch with this, then I see Wii U games with 360/ps3 ports for 5 years.

I just can't even believe it until it happens. It's too crazy.

#64 Posted by bobafettjm (1476 posts) -

As a game collector, if they do this then I guess I will stick to Sony if they don't do something similar. I really never buy games used if I can find them still new, but there are plenty of older games that are almost impossible to find new.

#65 Posted by Flappy (2360 posts) -

Another rumor about the next set of consoles? Cute.

#66 Posted by NMC2008 (1237 posts) -

No thanks MS, no thanks..... if this is true, I mean is MS that damn stupid?

#67 Posted by Breadfan (6590 posts) -

Thanks, Obama.

#68 Posted by OfficeGamer (1086 posts) -

@Jams said:

It's the coming of next downfall of video games. CAN'T YOU SEE IT MANN????!?!! These consoles are going to come out with their always on activation and kill used game sales. Which in turn will cut out a lot of gamers. Before you know it, all the dude bro's and 12 year olds have moved on. Consoles no longer exist and on PC gaming survives! No more babies and bros. and as years pass, less and less kids grow up with games. Though some kids parents will buy them their PC. They grow up playing only PC games and the cycle starts anew.

Something about this post is magical

#69 Edited by VoleMaulder (65 posts) -

The only realistic way for this rumour to hold some truth is if they keep the same model they have now for XBLA and GoD games. That being, the game is tied to your account and the console in which you first activated it - and all other profiles in that console can also play it offline - and if you log in from a different console without having migrated your data you'd need to be connected to Live to play (you or the other profiles in that - different - console).

This doesn't seem that outrageous to me. It's already being done for years, it does combat the second hand market that they're so against, it allows you and other people in your household to play games offline and you can still lend/borrow games to/from trusted friends. And by "trusted" I mean that there is enough trust between you so that you can share account details.

But of course websites have to generate clicks somehow, and what better way to do that than twist a partly existing reality into an outrageous next-gen rumour?

#70 Posted by TheHBK (5563 posts) -

Nope. As much as we are scared that this would happen it won't. You won't alienate half of the people who bought a 360. They are not online. You don't piss off retail partners because everyone is selling used games now. And you don't piss us off. Yeah, I buy all my games new, but I also borrow games from my friends and let my friends borrow games.

I think the way to do it is for MS and Sony to do it is what they have now. But increase digital releases since you can't sell those back. Try to go the Apple route and go all digital. Be like Steam. But unlike Steam, have an offline mode that actually works.

#71 Posted by ConfusedOwl (972 posts) -

If this is true (and I'm not saying it is) I'll reacquire a Super Nintendo and never look back. I don't need to be online to play that!

#72 Posted by Animasta (14731 posts) -

@TheHBK: Ihaven't used it much but offline mode works whenever I need it personally.

#73 Edited by VoleMaulder (65 posts) -

@TheHBK: Sony is already doing that, in a way, with Plus. Granted, you don't own the games, but if both of them, Sony and MS, present an enticing enough subscription package in the next gen, offering a good number of previous gen games along with a few next gen ones "for free" with their subs, I think a lot of people would go that way. Now, regarding their normal prices for digital releases, if they make them truly competitive or better than retail prices, they're effectively destroying the retail market, because it would be far more convenient to download games. So, no , I don't expect to see good, not even reasonable, prices for digital releases any time soon. Even Steam has pretty high prices for new releases. It's the ridiculous sales that make it so attractive.

#74 Posted by Vexxan (4614 posts) -

Hope this isn't true...good thing I have a monster PC in case it is.

#75 Posted by cmblasko (1354 posts) -

Unfortunately, I feel that "always-on" validation is the direction that games are headed towards regardless of how the next round of consoles turn out. I hope that alternative, less intrusive and more consumer-friendly methods of game validation are developed before that happens.

Online
#76 Posted by Aetheldod (3737 posts) -

@TheHBK: My offline mode always works perfectly .... never had an issue with it

#77 Posted by JasonR86 (9729 posts) -

@TooWalrus said:

I'm in hardcore "Just fucking wait and see" mode for now. It's not worth getting outraged quite yet.

Yep.

#78 Posted by Excast (1041 posts) -

I just don't see it happening this generation. Consoles are already losing some ground to the PC market anyways. PC games can usually be purchased cheaper and are increasingly just as good, if not superior, to their console peers.

Also, a lot of people just don't have their consoles online for a variety of reasons. Some choose not to. Others do not have access to quality internet. Others just don't have a set up for their gaming where it makes sense. That is a lot of potential customers to throw away.

#79 Posted by Dacnomaniac (444 posts) -

Aha! What if I buy the Xbox pre-owned...? I FIGURED YOU OUT MICROSOFT!

#80 Posted by jjm494 (84 posts) -

Didn't this same rumor pop up in regards to Sony a while back?

I'm sure both MS and Sony, as well as EA and Activision, would love to see used game sales go away for good. However, all three major console developers need to block preowned games from being playable on their consoles fo this for it to be effective, and since the Wii U doesn't block pre-owned games, there's no way in hell Sony and Microsoft would take the jump.

Hell, even if Nintendo did block pre-owned games from being playable on the Wii-U through some type of OS patch and the next Xbox and PS4 followed suit, I can't see this lasting. Every chain that sells pre-owned games, along with consumer groups, would be screaming at the Justice Department to bring collusion charges against all three. And we all know how popular video games are in Washington right?

We'll most likely just see more extensive use of online passes, micro-transactions in $60.00 games, and absurd dlc policies for games in the next generation of consoles instead of attempts to stop preowned game sales.

#81 Posted by project343 (2838 posts) -

Can't happen.

If it does, they're going to be sitting at the bottom of a very lonely grave, waiting to get buried.

#82 Posted by Drazat (172 posts) -

Fuck that im going to stick with my pc and Steam......./sarcasm

#83 Posted by MooseyMcMan (11421 posts) -

No, they can't do that.

They'd better not. What happened to the days when playing console games was easier than PC games? Why should I give Microsoft a bunch of money and have to put up with this stuff when I can just put that money toward a PC?

#84 Posted by rapsney (29 posts) -

I love how everyone is saying they will just build a pc and buy games off steam when there is NO used games market on pc

#85 Posted by George_Hukas (1317 posts) -

I talk out of one side of my mouth about how much I love developers and the games they create and how devastated I am when studios close, while the other side of my mouth spews out visceral love for used games and Steam sales.

#86 Posted by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

The MMO style DRM seems to be the best way of protecting access to a game at least to date.

#87 Posted by leebmx (2235 posts) -

At first I couldn't see this happening, I thought there were still too many people with no inclination to connect their console to the internet. However they will be doing the maths on this and if cutting off all the consumers who won't go online costs less than they money they will make back by reclaiming used sales (and I think it will be) this is a distinct possibility.

I also think it would however be very interesting if this did happen - and in a weird way it might actually be a good thing for the quality of our games:

With all the money going back to publishers/developers rather than third parties there will be a lot more available for development and this could allow for greater risk taking than we currently have in the console space. Obviously they will have to get more creative with their pricing because they can't keep new games at £50 for a year, then drop them to £30 and expect the same numbers of customers to continue buying the same numbers of games. However if they can find the sweet spot between release time and pricing which Steam seems to have settled on (and it is in their financial interest to do this) this could return back large funds to the creators and while keeping gamers happy.

#88 Posted by John1912 (1979 posts) -

@OfficeGamer said:

@Jams said:

It's the coming of next downfall of video games. CAN'T YOU SEE IT MANN????!?!! These consoles are going to come out with their always on activation and kill used game sales. Which in turn will cut out a lot of gamers. Before you know it, all the dude bro's and 12 year olds have moved on. Consoles no longer exist and on PC gaming survives! No more babies and bros. and as years pass, less and less kids grow up with games. Though some kids parents will buy them their PC. They grow up playing only PC games and the cycle starts anew.

Something about this post is magical

Its the dead cat on his head....

Either both MS and Sony do it, or neither do. It would very likely be a death sentence if one console trys to go that route alone.

#89 Posted by FLYmeatwad (154 posts) -

@WinterSnowblind: Right, but I'm not sure I can go out and spend $400 dollars on a PC (assuming it's a pre-built one. I get building a PC is easy, but the assumption is that there's a unification to consoles that differs what an average consumer gets when they buy a new console as opposed to a new PC. Not to mention upkeep and higher likelihood for viruses and what not on PC, which I think still factors in to an average consumer's experience as opposed to how people like you and I approach playing games) and have the same convenience that a console offers.

What I'm saying is that if you tell me there's nothing I'll have to add on after the initial price investment, I can't buy used games but there will be a financial equivalent to Steam sales on XBLA and PSN, memory is going to be open or much cheaper than it currently is for things like the 360 or the Vita, and I don't have to worry about viruses but I can't really mod. Then I'll take the console over the PC. I just don't trust Sony or Microsoft to do all of that though.

#90 Edited by MegaMagick (40 posts) -

If these rumors are true, the next gen of consoles will be a Tarantino-style bloodbath. Online-only, no second hand or trade in market...

I can already see myself having to activate and tie my game to my XBL account/console, oh if i'm unable to access online? Well, i guess i'm fucked! Along with a whole list of other shit that can go wrong with this method..

This would be EA and Activision's wet dream, if Microsoft goes along with this i can see them throwing massive amounts of support their way, maybe even timed exclusive releases for Call of Duty, Battlefield 4, etc. As someone who doesn't buy used games, but is a heavy user of gamefly, this will most likely have a negative impact on me as well. They will probably be up shit creek and i will have to end up either paying 60 bucks for new releases i want to buy or wait several months for a price collapse. On a larger scale this would mean new, unproven IPs being devoured by mega annualized franchises like CoD, Madden, etc because of a larger chunk of consumers not willing to invest 60 dollars title they never heard of and them being unsure if they'll get proper value for the game.

Sony would likely never do this because the secondhand market is absolutely CRUCIAL to the japanese market, if they pull some shit like this their console would immediately be D.O.A in japan. They will probably have to go all out with their first party efforts , try to moneyhat some 3rd party publishers, and hope that gamers shun microsoft's new console and flock to the ps4.

If this is all true i will definitely be purchasing a ps4 and likely a WII U too after a price drop and games like X, Wind Waker HD, etc come out for it.

#91 Posted by Alexander (1724 posts) -

@rapsney said:

I love how everyone is saying they will just build a pc and buy games off steam when there is NO used games market on pc

The difference is that Steam has, so far, been a good place to get a deal. Games regularly come down in price and go on sale there. The same can't be said for Microsoft's handling of downloadable titles over Live.

#92 Posted by WilliamHenry (1219 posts) -

@rapsney said:

I love how everyone is saying they will just build a pc and buy games off steam when there is NO used games market on pc

You're not understanding the argument. Its not about money or even used games really. Taking used games away is part of the argument, but its mostly about the fact that people don't trust Microsoft/Sony the same way they trust Steam. Why go spend $400+ on a console when plenty of us already have a PC capable of playing games or could put that money towards a PC that can do a lot more things than a console can? I just spent $800 building a PC. While it wasn't solely to play games, as I needed a new one for work, I did make sure it was capable of playing just about any game. Now if the next set of consoles don't allow used games, what incentive is there for me to go spend another $400 on a console that I can't really upgrade in any meaningful way and where I have to deal with Microsoft's/Sony's closed ecosystems? The five or so exclusive games that I would play once and never touch again? Yea, I think I'd rather just skip those than paying $400 for a console and then $60 a piece for the games.

If Microsoft/Sony show that they are considerate about pricing and offer sales to the same extent that Steam does, then maybe I'd consider getting the next consoles. I don't honestly believe that will be the case, especially considering their track records with lowering prices on games/consoles.

I understand the reasoning behind this move, if they actually do it, but there are better alternatives than locking out used games. Why not work out a deal with Gamestop and/or other places that sell used games? Why not force them to start giving the devs/pubs/console makers a cut of used sales instead of taking it out on the consumer? What are the chances that Gamestop and other video game stores survive without a used game market?

#93 Posted by Marcsman (3296 posts) -

I don't understand all the fuss. If MS or Sony do this I'm building a PC. PCs have been doing it for years. What am I missing here?

#94 Posted by Wacomole (837 posts) -

@Kaiserreich said:

Sony wins! Flawless victory!

@Animasta said:

not going to happen

that would just give the generation to Sony

Did you guys miss the story a while back where Sony patented the tech to link games discs to specific consoles, basically making it possible to (in theory) detect and block use of used games.

They're both in the same hypothetical boat at the moment. It's yet to be seen whether either Sony or Microsoft will indeed pull the trigger on their anti-used game tech.

#95 Edited by graf1k (441 posts) -

I'd be really surprised if either Sony of Microsoft implement something like this for this coming generation. Between the outrage it would cause and the number of people who still game offline or don't have access to reliable broadband, especially in the U.S., it really would cause the second death of the console market. Well, that or Sony and Microsoft might as well just hand a bunch of money over to Nintendo and Valve and save themselves some time.

#96 Posted by Mesoian (1574 posts) -

@Blu3V3nom07 said:

TheVerge I already buy games new anyway. I haven't been to a GameStop for four years, now. Even BlackFriday games are new. ~ So, why should I care?

It takes the casual market it and potentially splits it 75/25%, 75% being people who don't trust the infrastructure and 25% being complacent enough to buy in. The hardcore market doesn't matter, they're already doing direct download sales.

Plus it will eliminate sales in low bandwith areas like northern new england or the deep midwest. It's ballsy, and if they're smart Microsoft will manage to do something for an offline mode.

It also means that paying for Live when you're forced to have an always on internet connection is now an actually ludicrous ideal, implying that you're essentially paying for your own DRM.

But most of all, it means that Sony is now in a very interesting position with it's February 20th announcement, since there's no way Microsoft will undercut that date to clarify.

#97 Posted by HerbieBug (4208 posts) -

Always online in a console is 100% deal breaker for me. So we shall see what we shall see. I will switch over to PC Master Race™ if such a thing is implemented in the new consoles.

I say this as a person who very rarely purchases games used. This is about principle and concern over preservation of media in future.

#98 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

I hope this story is true. Used games suck. I want all games to be day one digital downloads tied to your Xbox Live account with no discs.

#99 Posted by ProfessorEss (7523 posts) -
@leebmx said:

I also think it would however be very interesting if this did happen - and in a weird way it might actually be a good thing for the quality of our games:

With all the money going back to publishers/developers rather than third parties there will be a lot more available for development and this could allow for greater risk taking than we currently have in the console space. 

Do you believe this? Because I'm not sure I do. I have a real hard time believing any of this money is going to be used on creativity or risk-taking as opposed to being used for profit increasing and executive bonuses. And frankly, I personally believe after the used market is crushed we'll still be hearing endless complaints about how they can't make any money. 
 
I suspect the next big thing in the "Poor Ol' Publishers" story will be how "it's not economically feasible to continue to giving customers so much content for only 60 dollars" and their next big project will be finding out how to get as little on the disk (aka: original purchase) and as much into DLC packages (aka: additional costs) as possible. 
 
I don't mean to be so cynical, guess I'm just trying to be as negative as possible in the hopes that I'll be pleasantly surprised :P
#100 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8607 posts) -

Well, guess I'll be playing the current generation for awhile longer then. Because knowing how prices will never ever fucking drop to reasonable levels within 10 years...

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