New Xbox requires an always-on connection to block used games

#101 Posted by Brundage (387 posts) -

@FourWude said:

If the new consoles get anti-used game protection on them. Then I'm growing a neckbeard and building myself a gaming PC.

This is the lengths that MS and Sony will have pushed me too.

#102 Posted by Superkenon (1507 posts) -

Too dumb to be true.

#103 Posted by wookie912 (23 posts) -

Im more concerned about the always on internet connection.. plenty of people dont have their consoles connected to the net all the time.

#104 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5156 posts) -

Rumours are fun aren't they? Almost as fun as internet tage.

#105 Posted by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

@wookie912: So to own one, they have to. Blame piracy I guess.

#106 Posted by JoeyRavn (4986 posts) -

@CptBedlam said:

Well, PC and WiiU it is for me then.

This man. So much wisdom in his words.

#107 Posted by isomeri (1423 posts) -

So, just like Steam? I'm not bothered by this at all.

#108 Posted by Dallas_Raines (2221 posts) -

The shitty used game market can not possibly be compared to Steam, you silly gooses. Gamestop/Bestbuy/Amazon give you a fairly marginal discount on games even months after release. Steam will give you a 75% discount all day, errday, but the best you'll get at retail is maybe 30%.

#109 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

Oh, so if this is true, they're going to make no money on new copies at all, since everyone will simply pirate everything and console gaming will disappear overnight. At some point, a used game was a new game. At no point was a pirated game anything.

At least that's what I'd do. There's simply no feasible way for this to happen in today's climate.

#110 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

@isomeri said:

So, just like Steam? I'm not bothered by this at all.

Exactly. Everyone acts like it'll be the end of the world. It'll actually be a great innovation and good for the future of video games.

#111 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

@project343 said:

Can't happen.

If it does, they're going to be sitting at the bottom of a very lonely grave, waiting to get buried.

Yeah, just like Steam.

#112 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@jdh5153: Except for the part where it isn't. You see what they charge for digital releases on the MS store. Games will remain £40 forever, so even with a new label won't sell nearly as well.

#113 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@jdh5153: Except for the part where it isn't. You see what they charge for digital releases on the MS store. Games will remain £40 forever, so even with a new label won't sell nearly as well.

Get a job? People will still buy the games they want to play, it will have literally no meaningful impact on sales. The developers never see a penny from used games, so fuck the people who buy used games. They don't give a fuck about people who can't afford to buy a $60 game.

#114 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@jdh5153: I have a job, dick. Steam doesn't ask me for £40 for a game. And yes they do see a penny from used games. The £40 intitally spent to make it a used game in the first place.

And too bad. Any other business in the entire world, which basically all support resale in someway, do not see any money from resale. Art, carpentry, cars...

#115 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@glyn said:

@Sooty said:

It's funny people can be up in arms about this but lament pirates, who like buyers of used games, do not give any money to the developer or publisher of the games they buy.

Don't jump down my throat. Just saying that used games is no better than piracy in the eyes of the publishers and developers, and that's why systems like this may come into place.

Technically it is because you can purchase DLC.

You can purchase DLC on pirated games for 360, in fact I don't recall DLC being particularly easy to pirate aside from GOTY editions of games.

So not really.

and saying used game buyers may buy DLC is a pointless argument to make because you could turn around and say pirates might not have bought games in the first place, it's dumb to get into what ifs, the only facts are used games don't generate money for the publisher or developer for that sole purchase, neither does piracy.

#116 Posted by brutushayesosu (143 posts) -

Why wouldn't they just require an Xbox Live Gold membership in order to play second hand games or add another tier to it?

#117 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Brundage said:

@FourWude said:

If the new consoles get anti-used game protection on them. Then I'm growing a neckbeard and building myself a gaming PC.

This is the lengths that MS and Sony will have pushed me too.

Why are people saying this?

You can't buy used games on PC. You haven't really been able to for coming up to half a decade, in the UK all major retailers quit selling used PC games in like, 2004.

Sorry but citing this as a reason to switch to PC is really dumb. Sure you'll save money on games in Steam sales and what not (you would probably do this even if you can still buy used console games), but are you really going to pretend not being able to buy used games is a reason to switch over? Really?

...really?

@Canteu said:

The £40 intitally spent to make it a used game in the first place.

Real bad argument.

One person buys a copy of Dead Island, rips it to an ISO, uploads it to Usenet, The Pirate Bay.

Well at least that developer saw $60 before thousand of others downloaded it, right?

Sure a single used copy of a game probably won't exchange too many hands, but it's still the same thing.

#118 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

@brutushayesosu said:

Why wouldn't they just require an Xbox Live Gold membership in order to play second hand games or add another tier to it?

Because second hand games are bad for the industry. Unless every game required a $15-20 pass after you purchased it used (like the EA online pass) the developers wouldn't see a dime from it. We're better off without used games anyway, and Microsoft and Sony know this. (I'm 90% sure Sony is going to block used games too)

#119 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Sooty: Probably because it's super easy to pirate the shit out of literally anything on PC.

@jdh5153: Consider the impact used games may have on an audience. I dunno if I like dead space 3, because I didn't play 1 or 2. I go out and get 1 for like £5 and then I'm like holy shit, I need this new one. I go out and drop £40 on dead space 3.

It can and has happened.

And frankly, a lot of the times I trade in towards the cost of a new game, that I wouldn't get at full price, simply because games are horribly overpriced.

#120 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@Sooty: Probably because it's super easy to pirate the shit out of literally anything on PC.

Well it's easier on console if someone mods your 360 for you. Put a disc in, play.

#121 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Sooty said:

@Canteu said:

@Sooty: Probably because it's super easy to pirate the shit out of literally anything on PC.

Well it's easier on console if someone mods your 360 for you. Put a disc in, play.

Do nothing to your pc. Press download. Play.

I would argue it's much easier on PC.

#122 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (3791 posts) -

GameStop can still sell new games, so fuck it! Its Microsoft's (industry game) now! I mean what's GameStop gonna do, sell a $1,000 Steambox to the GameStop COD kid? Nope! They'll play Microsoft's And Sony's ball, sit down and like it.

#123 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@Sooty said:

@Canteu said:

@Sooty: Probably because it's super easy to pirate the shit out of literally anything on PC.

Well it's easier on console if someone mods your 360 for you. Put a disc in, play.

Do nothing to your pc. Press download. Play.

I would argue it's much easier on PC.

Putting a disc in > faffing around with cracks, serials and .dll files. Granted usually it's a copy and paste job, but putting a disc in is still easier.

I know what my grandparents would find easier. And the average joe.

#124 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Sooty: Cost of labour, and possibly damage of hardware, and possibility of your console being bricked. None of these risks are associated with the other end. So no, not really.

I've never pirated a console game anyway, so I really wouldn't know.

Also, my 360 drive doesn't open 90% of the time. So yes, it's a faff and a half to play anything on my 360.

#125 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@Sooty: Cost of labour, and possibly damage of hardware, and possibility of your console being bricked. None of these risks are associated with the other end. So no, not really.

Cost of labour - easy to do yourself, or generally quite cheap anyway

Damage of hardware - not really, don't drink coffee with a 360 opened in front of you

Being bricked - well sure, if you're a dumbass

I've flashed 360s before, with one of the Team Xecuter tools it can literally be done in 15 minutes, most of that time being taken up by opening the 360. Granted these were the older ones, I'm not clued up on the current process.

and that still doesn't change that putting a disc in is easier, there's no way to change that. Are PCs pretty much ready out of the box to run whatever you put on there? Sure. Doesn't mean buying a game from a market and putting the disc in isn't easier than downloading and following crack instructions.

#126 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Sooty: You seem to be missing step 3...acquiring the disks. You, what? Go to a torrent site, download a torrent then rip it to disk? The exact same process you use on pc, apart from the cost of the disks, having a dvd writer, having to burn a dvd, even more so having a Blu-ray writer.

Go to a shady guy with a sports bag full of disks demarcated in black marker pen?

#127 Posted by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

@isomeri said:

So, just like Steam? I'm not bothered by this at all.

Exactly. Everyone acts like it'll be the end of the world. It'll actually be a great innovation and good for the future of video games.

I hate the idea of an all digital downloads, I like to have a physical library of games to collect. And most people I know wouldn't be able to afford gaming if it weren't for used games.

#128 Posted by FLYmeatwad (154 posts) -

I'm just not sure why anyone trusts MS (or Sony to a lesser extent) to compete with Steam. We're talking about a company that charges $60 a year (an increase in what used to be like $45 or whatever) to talk with other people online...while still covering all their dashboard tabs in ads. A company that runs discounts on games years after they come out without any sort of price adjustments in the meantime. At least Sony's PS+ gives the illusion that you get free stuff even if you never own any of it, and their sales are much more frequent/substantial than the ones run by MS. Even there though I'm not sure that Sony would actively compete with Steam (or, really, other services since Steam has kind of become the Amazon of digital distribution. Decent prices on products, but nowhere near the best, mostly coasting on name recognition and public perception at this point in time).

#129 Posted by RE_Player1 (7526 posts) -

@TooWalrus said:

I'm in hardcore "Just fucking wait and see" mode for now. It's not worth getting outraged quite yet.

Same.

#130 Posted by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

@Canteu said:

@jdh5153: Except for the part where it isn't. You see what they charge for digital releases on the MS store. Games will remain £40 forever, so even with a new label won't sell nearly as well.

Get a job? People will still buy the games they want to play, it will have literally no meaningful impact on sales. The developers never see a penny from used games, so fuck the people who buy used games. They don't give a fuck about people who can't afford to buy a $60 game.

And why should they? When I buy a game at a store that game is now my property.. Because I now own that game, I should be able to do whatever I want with it, whether that means lending it to one of my friends, or selling it to another individual / store. It's my property now, not theirs! Should thrift stores be outlawed because the manufacturers of whatever second hand merchandise don't see a share of the profits?

#131 Posted by MikkaQ (10344 posts) -

@FourWude said:

If the new consoles get anti-used game protection on them. Then I'm growing a neckbeard and building myself a gaming PC.

This is the lengths that MS and Sony will have pushed me too.

But then you'd just be entering another environment that doesn't allow for used games.

#132 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7100 posts) -
@msavo

@TooWalrus said:

I'm in hardcore "Just fucking wait and see" mode for now. It's not worth getting outraged quite yet.

Same.

Yep. I doubt it though. FAR too many current generation consoles not connected even now. Tens of millions of customers in regions without reliable enough Internet.
#133 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@SathingtonWaltz: Quick! Hide before he uses the "you're only paying for a license to use the software" line!

You aren't allowed to sell your house, you have to build a new one.

You aren't allowed to sell your car, you have to buy a new one, without finance, from scratch.

You aren't allowed to sell your furniture, you have to go kill a tree and make more.

The gaming industry is the only industry with this mentality. They need to adjust their revenue streams instead of designing imaginary rights and rules that apply only to their own shitty business practices.

#134 Posted by leebmx (2235 posts) -

@ProfessorEss: I think you are being a tad cynical but then on the other hand I don't think it will all be roses and sunshine either.....

However I do think that if used games are removed from the equation it will mean more money for publishers, and I definitely don't think that we will be stuck with the current pricing models if that happens. It just doesn't make sense, for the consumers or buisness. So prices will drop, bundle deals with happen.

And I would way rather my gaming money went back to publishers and developers than people like Gamefly and Gamestop/CEX Money going out to used-game sellers does absolutely nothing to benefit my future gaming experiences. However if it starts flowing back to the creators chances are this will mean better things for the consumers. People complain how the 'b tier' games are disappearing and this is because these games are too expensive to make and the risk is too high. If margins are better there is more of a chance that creative risks will be taken on games such as these and other interesting oddities. Ever asked yourself why there are so many boring shooters around? - because they are the only games which don't give the money men sleepless nights. If they have more money to play around with this might not be so bad.

Of course consumers have to keep pubs and devs (esp pubs) on their toes but I can see some benefit to the consumer coming through this - if it ever happens.

#135 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@Sooty: You seem to be missing step 3...acquiring the disks. You, what? Go to a torrent site, download a torrent then rip it to disk? The exact same process you use on pc, apart from the cost of the disks, having a dvd writer, having to burn a dvd, even more so having a Blu-ray writer.

Go to a shady guy with a sports bag full of disks demarcated in black marker pen?

I can't be bothered with this, if you refuse to acknowledge how easy it is to put in a disc and start playing then I don't even know how to continue. Note I said if someone mods your 360, then it's easier, which it is. Put a disc in, play.

If you have no idea how to mod your 360 or don't have the means to do so, but you are able to follow fairly simple crack instructions and have the ability to download these games, then yes, piracy is easier on PC. Otherwise no, going to a market and buying the latest release on disc for £5 is easier. (which I've seen a plenty, and again, assuming you've gotten your 360 flashed)

Nothing else to really say.

#136 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Sooty: I'm not really arguing with you, it's that I've never pirated a console game in my life, so I simply have no frame of reference is all.

Seems like a lot of work in comparison to me.

The whole point of piracy is to not pay anything. Why you would pay somebody something for a pirated copy is beyond me.

edit: waitaminute. you said it's easier if you meet the criteria of being able to do it...so...you agree with me that it's easier, because clearly i'm on the other side of the fence. I don't know how to do the console one, so the PC one is obviously easier to me. Knowing how to do both, the PC is easier. So....

Alright.

#137 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@SathingtonWaltz: Quick! Hide before he uses the "you're only paying for a license to use the software" line!

You aren't allowed to sell your house, you have to build a new one.

You aren't allowed to sell your car, you have to buy a new one, without finance, from scratch.

You aren't allowed to sell your furniture, you have to go kill a tree and make more.

The gaming industry is the only industry with this mentality. They need to adjust their revenue streams instead of designing imaginary rights and rules that apply only to their own shitty business practices.

what? You don't own the game, that's a fact. It's not something physical that you own. You own the disc that allows you to play the game, but not the actual software on the disc.

That's not the same as a house, car or furniture...at ALL. You seem to completely misunderstand the software industry.

#138 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

see I told you!

#139 Posted by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

@Canteu said:

@SathingtonWaltz: Quick! Hide before he uses the "you're only paying for a license to use the software" line!

You aren't allowed to sell your house, you have to build a new one.

You aren't allowed to sell your car, you have to buy a new one, without finance, from scratch.

You aren't allowed to sell your furniture, you have to go kill a tree and make more.

The gaming industry is the only industry with this mentality. They need to adjust their revenue streams instead of designing imaginary rights and rules that apply only to their own shitty business practices.

what? You don't own the game, that's a fact. It's not something physical that you own. You own the disc that allows you to play the game, but not the actual software on the disc.

That's not the same as a house, car or furniture...at ALL. You seem to completely misunderstand the software industry.

Then why is it legal for me to go to Gamestop and sell my game to them? I seriously cannot see how any sane human being could possibly support such blatant corporate interests.

#140 Posted by Daveyo520 (7010 posts) -

Good thing I always have internet.

#141 Posted by phrali (646 posts) -

posting this from my phone because the only isp in this area sucks balls. Thats why this is a bad idea. I dont care if they block used games, but always online drm is an instant never buy for me.

#142 Posted by leebmx (2235 posts) -

While I think it could be a good thing if used game sales are removed from the market, it is very uncreative of Sony and Microsoft to think that the only way to do this is through always on internet. They haven't even for one moment started trying to compete with the prices of the used game market.

Basically in the UK where a new game cost £40 you will pay £38 for a used game for about a month after release. This will have dropped to about £25 for a big game in 3 months and this can hold steady for over a year (Skyrim for example is still selling for about £22 used, over a year old).

I do not see why it is beyond the wit of the console makers to take a look at the used market place and attempt to match the prices for their new and download copies but they have made absolutely no attempt and then just cry like children about losing money. I would much rather buy all my games new but the choice of paying £20 used or £40 new for a year old game is no choice at all.

The big corps are just not nimble and creative enough which is why we are seeing this virtual ban hammer for used games instead of anything more thoughtful.

#143 Posted by Slag (4912 posts) -

They are about to kill the golden goose if they do this. People are already abandoning console video games this gen, this will escalate that exodus by a factor of ten.

Making games even more expensive while simultaneously removing resale value and adding restrictive always on DRM would be killer.

I certainly would be done console gaming if true. Like most I'd probably just go mobile or Pc for a gaming kick and just game a lot less in general.

Consoles just aren't a good value if you can only afford a couple new titles +DLC a year.

If they were smart about this (and they show no signs of this) is to change the way games are sold. Instead of buying full games, people should be allowed to early levels or just multiplayer only. Make them cheap and easy to share. All titles would need to adopt this philosophy to work.

That way the base expectation changes of what a fair purchase is , people won't feel they are getting ripped off (as much anyway) since a) new games will be a lot less expensive and b) you know what you are buying upfront is not the full single player campaign.

This not exactly a foreign concept, many consumer products are based off similar ideas.

It might mean some changes gamers (including me) wouldn't like, but it sure beats this suicidal option which would price huge swaths of gamers out of the hobby altogether.

#144 Posted by Daveyo520 (7010 posts) -

@GS_Dan said:

Brutal honesty - I don't care, I have an internet connection.

EDIT: Also, used PC games? What are you guys smoking?

#145 Posted by GnaTSoL (836 posts) -

Do it MS. Kill le Gamestop!

#146 Posted by rentfn (1288 posts) -

I don't buy used games but I do borrow games from friends once in awhile. Well they borrow from me. It would be dumb if this stopped friends sharing games.

#147 Posted by tunaburn (1891 posts) -

i wont buy any system that wont let me play used games. you guys understand this also will stop you from borrowing games from friends right? what about gamefly? yep wont work either.

#148 Posted by GaspoweR (3533 posts) -

Here's a quote I got from Jeff's Twitter which I think is very sensible:

I could envision Microsoft's no used games policy actually working a lot like the online pass strategy--wanna use a used disc? Buy a code.

— Jeff Gerstmann (@jeffgerstmann) February 6, 2013
#149 Posted by insane_shadowblade85 (1537 posts) -

@FourWude said:

If the new consoles get anti-used game protection on them. Then I'm growing a neckbeard and building myself a gaming PC.

This is the lengths that MS and Sony will have pushed me too.

Fear not! I've been a proud owner of a gaming PC for 2 and a half years and I have no neck beard! It comes in faster though, so be careful O_O

#150 Posted by DaMisterChief (628 posts) -

Does anyone not play games online??

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