New Xbox requires an always-on connection to block used games

#201 Posted by JasonR86 (9372 posts) -

Retailers wouldn't sell the hardware if they couldn't sell software. Gamestop is still a big seller of new games and they won't sell those new games if they can't sell used games as well. So this won't happen this console generation.

#202 Posted by ManMadeGod (1508 posts) -

If something like this was to happen Sony would be doing it too. Guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

I always love the rumors that fly around right before console launches

#203 Posted by KaneRobot (1266 posts) -

@ManMadeGod said:

If something like this was to happen Sony would be doing it too. Guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

You could be right, but I have a feeling that Sony isn't going to be revealing that much on 2/20. Merely confirming the console exists and it'll be out this year.

#204 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@JasonR86: If Gamestop didn't sell the PS4 and 720 games alot of other stores will, Gamestop would go under if they didn't sell the next gen of games.

#205 Posted by JasonR86 (9372 posts) -

Eh.

#206 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@KaneRobot said:

@ManMadeGod said:

If something like this was to happen Sony would be doing it too. Guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

You could be right, but I have a feeling that Sony isn't going to be revealing that much on 2/20. Merely confirming the console exists and it'll be out this year.

I think who ever reveals this anti-piracy measure first will get the brunt of the back lash, the 2nd one to announce could just be like "well they doing it so we are to"

#207 Posted by isomeri (1172 posts) -
@SathingtonWaltz

@jdh5153 said:

@isomeri said:

So, just like Steam? I'm not bothered by this at all.

Exactly. Everyone acts like it'll be the end of the world. It'll actually be a great innovation and good for the future of video games.

I hate the idea of an all digital downloads, I like to have a physical library of games to collect. And most people I know wouldn't be able to afford gaming if it weren't for used games.

I can understand why some people want physical objects to hold on to. I collect vinyl, but I've never been interested in collecting digital media.

And if the gaming industry really is dependent on the used games market then we're all fucked. I'm a student and I still never buy used games.
#208 Edited by EXTomar (4125 posts) -

Steam is tolerated because it runs on semi-open platforms. Consoles like the XBox 360 are DRM-hardened systems. If my PC hard drive dies (the most common catastrophic PC malfunction), reloading games on Steam just takes download time where the only validation that is needed is logging into Steam. Are we going to get the same support on consoles or does it involve calling up someone at their Customer Service and begging them to switch machines?

#209 Posted by HeyImPhoenix (169 posts) -

Yeah I agree, if this happens I'm going to fork out for a high end gaming pc.

#210 Posted by masternater27 (908 posts) -

Really awful if true. I don't buy it though. I work in retail and probably 30% of our xbox customers don't connect it to the internet.

#211 Posted by Fattony12000 (6350 posts) -

God, the hyper-pirates and neo-crackers are going to go to town on this whole thing.

#212 Posted by xyzygy (9618 posts) -

@Animasta said:

not going to happen

that would just give the generation to Sony

this. i will refuse to buy the next xbox if they go this route.

#213 Posted by Kurtdyoung (1289 posts) -

That sounds kinda dumb. I understand the idea of it, but to alienate a fair amount of people who use your product, yeah I don't know. Seems like if it is true it could be a mistake. That would completely get rid of game rental services right? Not that there were a lot now anyway...

#214 Posted by SkankinPacman (73 posts) -

New rumor: Next-gen Xbox will require you to sign over your first born child to Microsoft for slave labor.

#215 Posted by Blimble (302 posts) -

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@RedRoach said:

@Blimble said:

I don't like to go into rumours about new consoles, but if this happens Microsoft have lost a customer

If you're buying used games you're already not a customer and they don't give a shit about you. is right, piracy and used games are practically the same thing. No money goes to the developer, publisher or console maker.

I really don't see how stealing games vs purchasing them from someone else is similar at all.

because the publisher and developer don't care about GameStop getting paid, they want the money to make these games, not to keep a retail store afloat.

used games and piracy both give no money directly to pubs/devs, of course people can pirate a game or buy used then buy DLC, but the initial sale of that game isn't going to the pub/dev, that's how they are similar.

I see how they are similar in that sense, but I don't see how they are ethically similar at all. In one case an individual isn't spending money and in the other he/she is.

I dunno if a used game buyer is really much better than a pirate, after all, you aren't helping that game make a profit, just like a pirate isn't. Does paying some guy on eBay money make it ethically better than pirating? I'd say noooooot really.

It doesn't bother me at all, I just find it funny some people lament pirates but buy used games. It's a funny contradiction.

If you wanna support the industry you buy new, if you want to be cheap you either buy used or pirate, there's just no need to take the moral highground if you're not contributing to the development of these damn games!

I buy used sometimes, I buy new most of the time, and as for piracy, well I'm saying nothing. I've been all over the place!

Are you guys serious? If you have bought something you have a complete right to sell it again and for someone to buy it. This happens with nearly every over type of product. Own any books? You probably got a lot second hand. Own a car? even more likely. Selling used goods has been a completely ethical action forever, hell it's what we did before money.

The used game market is very important especially for people who want to collect old games or don't have much money, it has never had or been ethically wrong in any medium. If the game companies want me to buy new give me an incentive to that isn't some bullshit online pass.

#216 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

@Blimble said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@RedRoach said:

@Blimble said:

I don't like to go into rumours about new consoles, but if this happens Microsoft have lost a customer

If you're buying used games you're already not a customer and they don't give a shit about you. is right, piracy and used games are practically the same thing. No money goes to the developer, publisher or console maker.

I really don't see how stealing games vs purchasing them from someone else is similar at all.

because the publisher and developer don't care about GameStop getting paid, they want the money to make these games, not to keep a retail store afloat.

used games and piracy both give no money directly to pubs/devs, of course people can pirate a game or buy used then buy DLC, but the initial sale of that game isn't going to the pub/dev, that's how they are similar.

I see how they are similar in that sense, but I don't see how they are ethically similar at all. In one case an individual isn't spending money and in the other he/she is.

I dunno if a used game buyer is really much better than a pirate, after all, you aren't helping that game make a profit, just like a pirate isn't. Does paying some guy on eBay money make it ethically better than pirating? I'd say noooooot really.

It doesn't bother me at all, I just find it funny some people lament pirates but buy used games. It's a funny contradiction.

If you wanna support the industry you buy new, if you want to be cheap you either buy used or pirate, there's just no need to take the moral highground if you're not contributing to the development of these damn games!

I buy used sometimes, I buy new most of the time, and as for piracy, well I'm saying nothing. I've been all over the place!

Are you guys serious? If you have bought something you have a complete right to sell it again and for someone to buy it. This happens with nearly every over type of product. Own any books? You probably got a lot second hand. Own a car? even more likely. Selling used goods has been a completely ethical action forever, hell it's what we did before money.

The used game market is very important especially for people who want to collect old games or don't have much money, it has never had or been ethically wrong in any medium. If the game companies want me to buy new give me an incentive to that isn't some bullshit online pass.

It's software, not something physical. You can't sell a used copy of Windows or Office. You don't own the video game software either. You never have, you never will. If you think you do you're wrong, read the user agreement. If you refuse the user agreement it says right in it you must return the software.

#217 Edited by Mike76x (555 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

@Blimble said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@RedRoach said:

@Blimble said:

I don't like to go into rumours about new consoles, but if this happens Microsoft have lost a customer

If you're buying used games you're already not a customer and they don't give a shit about you. is right, piracy and used games are practically the same thing. No money goes to the developer, publisher or console maker.

I really don't see how stealing games vs purchasing them from someone else is similar at all.

because the publisher and developer don't care about GameStop getting paid, they want the money to make these games, not to keep a retail store afloat.

used games and piracy both give no money directly to pubs/devs, of course people can pirate a game or buy used then buy DLC, but the initial sale of that game isn't going to the pub/dev, that's how they are similar.

I see how they are similar in that sense, but I don't see how they are ethically similar at all. In one case an individual isn't spending money and in the other he/she is.

I dunno if a used game buyer is really much better than a pirate, after all, you aren't helping that game make a profit, just like a pirate isn't. Does paying some guy on eBay money make it ethically better than pirating? I'd say noooooot really.

It doesn't bother me at all, I just find it funny some people lament pirates but buy used games. It's a funny contradiction.

If you wanna support the industry you buy new, if you want to be cheap you either buy used or pirate, there's just no need to take the moral highground if you're not contributing to the development of these damn games!

I buy used sometimes, I buy new most of the time, and as for piracy, well I'm saying nothing. I've been all over the place!

Are you guys serious? If you have bought something you have a complete right to sell it again and for someone to buy it. This happens with nearly every over type of product. Own any books? You probably got a lot second hand. Own a car? even more likely. Selling used goods has been a completely ethical action forever, hell it's what we did before money.

The used game market is very important especially for people who want to collect old games or don't have much money, it has never had or been ethically wrong in any medium. If the game companies want me to buy new give me an incentive to that isn't some bullshit online pass.

It's software, not something physical. You can't sell a used copy of Windows or Office. You don't own the video game software either. You never have, you never will. If you think you do you're wrong, read the user agreement. If you refuse the user agreement it says right in it you must return the software.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/can-i-sell-a-used-copy-of-windows-vista-or-windows/11b6d8de-cb38-46a9-b3fc-4d74867e9371

#218 Posted by PHenry1991 (137 posts) -

Who wants to bet that Both Sony and Microsofts new consoles will block used games?

Or maybe they won't.

Could go either way.

#219 Posted by Blimble (302 posts) -

@Mike76x said:

@jdh5153 said:

@Blimble said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@RedRoach said:

@Blimble said:

I don't like to go into rumours about new consoles, but if this happens Microsoft have lost a customer

If you're buying used games you're already not a customer and they don't give a shit about you. is right, piracy and used games are practically the same thing. No money goes to the developer, publisher or console maker.

I really don't see how stealing games vs purchasing them from someone else is similar at all.

because the publisher and developer don't care about GameStop getting paid, they want the money to make these games, not to keep a retail store afloat.

used games and piracy both give no money directly to pubs/devs, of course people can pirate a game or buy used then buy DLC, but the initial sale of that game isn't going to the pub/dev, that's how they are similar.

I see how they are similar in that sense, but I don't see how they are ethically similar at all. In one case an individual isn't spending money and in the other he/she is.

I dunno if a used game buyer is really much better than a pirate, after all, you aren't helping that game make a profit, just like a pirate isn't. Does paying some guy on eBay money make it ethically better than pirating? I'd say noooooot really.

It doesn't bother me at all, I just find it funny some people lament pirates but buy used games. It's a funny contradiction.

If you wanna support the industry you buy new, if you want to be cheap you either buy used or pirate, there's just no need to take the moral highground if you're not contributing to the development of these damn games!

I buy used sometimes, I buy new most of the time, and as for piracy, well I'm saying nothing. I've been all over the place!

Are you guys serious? If you have bought something you have a complete right to sell it again and for someone to buy it. This happens with nearly every over type of product. Own any books? You probably got a lot second hand. Own a car? even more likely. Selling used goods has been a completely ethical action forever, hell it's what we did before money.

The used game market is very important especially for people who want to collect old games or don't have much money, it has never had or been ethically wrong in any medium. If the game companies want me to buy new give me an incentive to that isn't some bullshit online pass.

It's software, not something physical. You can't sell a used copy of Windows or Office. You don't own the video game software either. You never have, you never will. If you think you do you're wrong, read the user agreement. If you refuse the user agreement it says right in it you must return the software.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/can-i-sell-a-used-copy-of-windows-vista-or-windows/11b6d8de-cb38-46a9-b3fc-4d74867e9371

That's interesting but even if that wasn't the case the user agreement would just be wrong to me. As far as I am concerned the games I paid for are mine. I don't see why people are so happy to support the companies on this one

#220 Posted by EXTomar (4125 posts) -

Welcome to the world of modern rights. :)

Personally I resolved this years ago by coming to the realization that most software let alone games aren't worth much after a few months. People are overvaluing the disks they have sitting around their house because a lot of them are actually junk and not worth pocket lint after a few months.

#221 Posted by AndyAce83 (118 posts) -

I dont buy used games, but this means that I cant borrow games from or to other to, right? That´s nonsense.

#222 Edited by Dark (356 posts) -

People using the gamestop not selling the consoles argument, I don't see that working if the 2 consoles just say 'well thats how it is'. Gamestop is already looking pretty sad when it comes to money so they aren't going to just stop selling 2 of the 3 major console brands, it would destroy whats left of their business.

If the new gen consoles embrace the age of internets properly we could see the rise of download content finally taking over.

Either way I will not be surprised if they cave in and allow used games, or if they go the other direction and say no to used games. We are gradually shifting to downloadable only gaming which cuts the middle man out for publishing companies anyway, which is what they want more than anything.

::EDIT:: @Demoskinos I make that mistake far too often >.> *cough*

#223 Posted by Demoskinos (13851 posts) -

@Dark: Gamespot doesn't sell anything....now Gamestop......

#224 Posted by SpartanHoplite (384 posts) -

Hopefully Sony wont do the same.

#225 Posted by Humanity (7946 posts) -

@AndyAce83: You can't lend your friends any of your pc games either and hardly anyone ever complains about that.

#226 Edited by AndyAce83 (118 posts) -

@Humanity said:

@AndyAce83: You can't lend your friends any of your pc games either and hardly anyone ever complains about that.

Ahh, thank you. You gave me another reason why console playin is/was better than PC gaming. I only play SC2 on PC and you are right, I dont think I could have leaned that game away. But once upon a time you could. Since I havent been a PC gamer in many years I cant say when this happened. Please share if you know when PC games couldnt be shared.

#227 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@Blimble said:

@Mike76x said:

@jdh5153 said:

@Blimble said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@RedRoach said:

@Blimble said:

I don't like to go into rumours about new consoles, but if this happens Microsoft have lost a customer

If you're buying used games you're already not a customer and they don't give a shit about you. is right, piracy and used games are practically the same thing. No money goes to the developer, publisher or console maker.

I really don't see how stealing games vs purchasing them from someone else is similar at all.

because the publisher and developer don't care about GameStop getting paid, they want the money to make these games, not to keep a retail store afloat.

used games and piracy both give no money directly to pubs/devs, of course people can pirate a game or buy used then buy DLC, but the initial sale of that game isn't going to the pub/dev, that's how they are similar.

I see how they are similar in that sense, but I don't see how they are ethically similar at all. In one case an individual isn't spending money and in the other he/she is.

I dunno if a used game buyer is really much better than a pirate, after all, you aren't helping that game make a profit, just like a pirate isn't. Does paying some guy on eBay money make it ethically better than pirating? I'd say noooooot really.

It doesn't bother me at all, I just find it funny some people lament pirates but buy used games. It's a funny contradiction.

If you wanna support the industry you buy new, if you want to be cheap you either buy used or pirate, there's just no need to take the moral highground if you're not contributing to the development of these damn games!

I buy used sometimes, I buy new most of the time, and as for piracy, well I'm saying nothing. I've been all over the place!

Are you guys serious? If you have bought something you have a complete right to sell it again and for someone to buy it. This happens with nearly every over type of product. Own any books? You probably got a lot second hand. Own a car? even more likely. Selling used goods has been a completely ethical action forever, hell it's what we did before money.

The used game market is very important especially for people who want to collect old games or don't have much money, it has never had or been ethically wrong in any medium. If the game companies want me to buy new give me an incentive to that isn't some bullshit online pass.

It's software, not something physical. You can't sell a used copy of Windows or Office. You don't own the video game software either. You never have, you never will. If you think you do you're wrong, read the user agreement. If you refuse the user agreement it says right in it you must return the software.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/can-i-sell-a-used-copy-of-windows-vista-or-windows/11b6d8de-cb38-46a9-b3fc-4d74867e9371

That's interesting but even if that wasn't the case the user agreement would just be wrong to me. As far as I am concerned the games I paid for are mine. I don't see why people are so happy to support the companies on this one

I never said I was happy to support it. I said I don't care. I only find it annoying when people get high and mighty about piracy then they buy used games.

and well, whatever, it doesn't bother me at all because PC games have been doing this for over half a decade. I didn't see console gamers rushing to petition against this practice on PC.

#228 Posted by StrainedEyes (1309 posts) -

If this is the first step in all-digital selling of games, and hopefully steam-like sales on the digital storefronts, I'm okay with it.

#229 Posted by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

@EXTomar said:

Welcome to the world of modern rights. :)

Personally I resolved this years ago by coming to the realization that most software let alone games aren't worth much after a few months. People are overvaluing the disks they have sitting around their house because a lot of them are actually junk and not worth pocket lint after a few months.

I understand that we don't technically own the software, but I believe we own the disc that the software is on. Hence why I can still legally do whatever the hell I want with it.

@Blimble said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@RedRoach said:

@Blimble said:

I don't like to go into rumours about new consoles, but if this happens Microsoft have lost a customer

If you're buying used games you're already not a customer and they don't give a shit about you. is right, piracy and used games are practically the same thing. No money goes to the developer, publisher or console maker.

I really don't see how stealing games vs purchasing them from someone else is similar at all.

because the publisher and developer don't care about GameStop getting paid, they want the money to make these games, not to keep a retail store afloat.

used games and piracy both give no money directly to pubs/devs, of course people can pirate a game or buy used then buy DLC, but the initial sale of that game isn't going to the pub/dev, that's how they are similar.

I see how they are similar in that sense, but I don't see how they are ethically similar at all. In one case an individual isn't spending money and in the other he/she is.

I dunno if a used game buyer is really much better than a pirate, after all, you aren't helping that game make a profit, just like a pirate isn't. Does paying some guy on eBay money make it ethically better than pirating? I'd say noooooot really.

It doesn't bother me at all, I just find it funny some people lament pirates but buy used games. It's a funny contradiction.

If you wanna support the industry you buy new, if you want to be cheap you either buy used or pirate, there's just no need to take the moral highground if you're not contributing to the development of these damn games!

I buy used sometimes, I buy new most of the time, and as for piracy, well I'm saying nothing. I've been all over the place!

Are you guys serious? If you have bought something you have a complete right to sell it again and for someone to buy it. This happens with nearly every over type of product. Own any books? You probably got a lot second hand. Own a car? even more likely. Selling used goods has been a completely ethical action forever, hell it's what we did before money.

The used game market is very important especially for people who want to collect old games or don't have much money, it has never had or been ethically wrong in any medium. If the game companies want me to buy new give me an incentive to that isn't some bullshit online pass.

Jesus Christ, I thought I was the only one in this thread not applauding the erosion of consumers rights! I'm still shocked that there are so many people wanting thing to happen and thinking that it will be better for the consumer.

#230 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@EXTomar said:

Welcome to the world of modern rights. :)

Personally I resolved this years ago by coming to the realization that most software let alone games aren't worth much after a few months. People are overvaluing the disks they have sitting around their house because a lot of them are actually junk and not worth pocket lint after a few months.

@Blimble said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@RedRoach said:

@Blimble said:

I don't like to go into rumours about new consoles, but if this happens Microsoft have lost a customer

If you're buying used games you're already not a customer and they don't give a shit about you. is right, piracy and used games are practically the same thing. No money goes to the developer, publisher or console maker.

I really don't see how stealing games vs purchasing them from someone else is similar at all.

because the publisher and developer don't care about GameStop getting paid, they want the money to make these games, not to keep a retail store afloat.

used games and piracy both give no money directly to pubs/devs, of course people can pirate a game or buy used then buy DLC, but the initial sale of that game isn't going to the pub/dev, that's how they are similar.

I see how they are similar in that sense, but I don't see how they are ethically similar at all. In one case an individual isn't spending money and in the other he/she is.

I dunno if a used game buyer is really much better than a pirate, after all, you aren't helping that game make a profit, just like a pirate isn't. Does paying some guy on eBay money make it ethically better than pirating? I'd say noooooot really.

It doesn't bother me at all, I just find it funny some people lament pirates but buy used games. It's a funny contradiction.

If you wanna support the industry you buy new, if you want to be cheap you either buy used or pirate, there's just no need to take the moral highground if you're not contributing to the development of these damn games!

I buy used sometimes, I buy new most of the time, and as for piracy, well I'm saying nothing. I've been all over the place!

Are you guys serious? If you have bought something you have a complete right to sell it again and for someone to buy it. This happens with nearly every over type of product. Own any books? You probably got a lot second hand. Own a car? even more likely. Selling used goods has been a completely ethical action forever, hell it's what we did before money.

The used game market is very important especially for people who want to collect old games or don't have much money, it has never had or been ethically wrong in any medium. If the game companies want me to buy new give me an incentive to that isn't some bullshit online pass.

Jesus Christ, I thought I was the only one in this thread not applauding the erosion of consumers rights! I'm still shocked that there are so many people wanting thing to happen and thinking that it will be better for the consumer.

Why are people missing my point over and over again...I never said I want this. I said it doesn't surprise me or bother me, and that those who lament pirates but buy used are contradicting themselves.

Paying some guy on eBay for a game used isn't helping those who put the work and money into that game, neither is pirating. All I'm saying.

#231 Edited by TheSlothKing (326 posts) -

Don't a lot of people in NA still have unstable internet? Wouldn't this kill their sales in NA and most nations that don't have very good/unstable internet?

#232 Posted by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@EXTomar said:

Welcome to the world of modern rights. :)

Personally I resolved this years ago by coming to the realization that most software let alone games aren't worth much after a few months. People are overvaluing the disks they have sitting around their house because a lot of them are actually junk and not worth pocket lint after a few months.

@Blimble said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@RedRoach said:

@Blimble said:

I don't like to go into rumours about new consoles, but if this happens Microsoft have lost a customer

If you're buying used games you're already not a customer and they don't give a shit about you. is right, piracy and used games are practically the same thing. No money goes to the developer, publisher or console maker.

I really don't see how stealing games vs purchasing them from someone else is similar at all.

because the publisher and developer don't care about GameStop getting paid, they want the money to make these games, not to keep a retail store afloat.

used games and piracy both give no money directly to pubs/devs, of course people can pirate a game or buy used then buy DLC, but the initial sale of that game isn't going to the pub/dev, that's how they are similar.

I see how they are similar in that sense, but I don't see how they are ethically similar at all. In one case an individual isn't spending money and in the other he/she is.

I dunno if a used game buyer is really much better than a pirate, after all, you aren't helping that game make a profit, just like a pirate isn't. Does paying some guy on eBay money make it ethically better than pirating? I'd say noooooot really.

It doesn't bother me at all, I just find it funny some people lament pirates but buy used games. It's a funny contradiction.

If you wanna support the industry you buy new, if you want to be cheap you either buy used or pirate, there's just no need to take the moral highground if you're not contributing to the development of these damn games!

I buy used sometimes, I buy new most of the time, and as for piracy, well I'm saying nothing. I've been all over the place!

Are you guys serious? If you have bought something you have a complete right to sell it again and for someone to buy it. This happens with nearly every over type of product. Own any books? You probably got a lot second hand. Own a car? even more likely. Selling used goods has been a completely ethical action forever, hell it's what we did before money.

The used game market is very important especially for people who want to collect old games or don't have much money, it has never had or been ethically wrong in any medium. If the game companies want me to buy new give me an incentive to that isn't some bullshit online pass.

Jesus Christ, I thought I was the only one in this thread not applauding the erosion of consumers rights! I'm still shocked that there are so many people wanting thing to happen and thinking that it will be better for the consumer.

Why are people missing my point over and over again...I never said I want this. I said it doesn't surprise me or bother me, and that those who lament pirates but buy used are contradicting themselves.

Paying some guy on eBay for a game used isn't helping those who put the work and money into that game, neither is pirating. All I'm saying.

I didn't specifically mention you for a reason. I get what you're saying, I was talking about others in the thread though.

#233 Posted by RenegadeDoppelganger (395 posts) -

I am on a pc and what are used games?

#234 Edited by ShadowMoses900 (190 posts) -

The "always online" thing is really stupid....I hope that isn't true. I mean I play online all the time but still the thought of it being required just irks me the wrong way. If this rumor is true then I'm going to say a big NO THANK YOU to the next Xbox.

The "no used games" thing has been rumored for a while but I don't think MS is going to do this because Sony confirmed that the PS4 will play used games. MS isn't going to make it's self the only one on the market that doesn't allow second hand games.

#235 Posted by leebmx (1854 posts) -

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@ProfessorEss said:

@leebmx said:

I also think it would however be very interesting if this did happen - and in a weird way it might actually be a good thing for the quality of our games:

With all the money going back to publishers/developers rather than third parties there will be a lot more available for development and this could allow for greater risk taking than we currently have in the console space.

Do you believe this? Because I'm not sure I do. I have a real hard time believing any of this money is going to be used on creativity or risk-taking as opposed to being used for profit increasing and executive bonuses. And frankly, I personally believe after the used market is crushed we'll still be hearing endless complaints about how they can't make any money.

I suspect the next big thing in the "Poor Ol' Publishers" story will be how "it's not economically feasible to continue to giving customers so much content for only 60 dollars" and their next big project will be finding out how to get as little on the disk (aka: original purchase) and as much into DLC packages (aka: additional costs) as possible. I don't mean to be so cynical, guess I'm just trying to be as negative as possible in the hopes that I'll be pleasantly surprised :P

It's very sad for collectors or just people who like to get old systems and play games on them. It's eliminating an entire sector of the market and kind of damning the future of gaming in general. Good luck 20 years from now trying to pick up a 720/PS4 and grabbing some cheap games for them for nostalgia's sake. Now you buy that old system, turn it on, the online market has been shut down and no games are available. You get a specific collection of games on then current market of the current console and you get to pay 50 dollars for them.

I also feel like it eliminates a key feature of consoles in the first place. Gone are the days of letting a friend borrow a game to try it out. Gone are the days of being able to easily go over to a friends house and play a game with them seamlessly on their console. It ultimately makes consoles finally nothing more than an overpriced, outdated PC with everything locked to an account or an individual console. Full retard.

I'm turning into a flag waver for the console makers here, something I don't consider myself, but whatever.....I think you are painting a very pessimistic picture of what the future will be like. I think it is extremely unlikely that digital gaming will mean you can only get the current gen's games at full price. A digital future will contain the newest releases at full price but market forces will mean that should there be a demand for old games (something which will become more and more likely as games start to hold up better for longer) that demand will be satisfied by whoever holds the licence. Look at your current games marketplace on whatever console you own and you will find lots of games from previous generations - its already happening.

Remember we have hardly even taken a baby step into this future yet, and the companies furthest along this route, namely Valve, have shown us that current, physical retail pricing models don't hold up in the digital world. You can't expect current models to stay the same as the world changes.

Your second point is the more worrying one but then I suppose gaming companies would probably insist that every time you lent a game to your friend, or took a copy round their house you were breaking the terms agreed upon at the sale. A shitty stance I agree. However I don't see why it isn't going to be possible to either take a hard drive to your friends or just download a profile and play from the cloud. Maybe not as easy as slipping in a disk but still possible.

I think the most interesting question regarding all this is what happens to all your games when the second fully digital console gets released? Are we going to be in a world where certain games just disappear from existence once their publishers/developers stop supporting them? What happens to your future copies of Darksiders 1&2 when future THQ go bust and aren't around to verify the always on internet connection needed to play the game?

There a lot of interesting questions to answered over the next 20 years and more, its exciting but also fraught with danger for the consumer.

#236 Posted by RedRoach (1158 posts) -

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@EXTomar said:

Welcome to the world of modern rights. :)

Personally I resolved this years ago by coming to the realization that most software let alone games aren't worth much after a few months. People are overvaluing the disks they have sitting around their house because a lot of them are actually junk and not worth pocket lint after a few months.

@Blimble said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Sooty said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@RedRoach said:

@Blimble said:

I don't like to go into rumours about new consoles, but if this happens Microsoft have lost a customer

If you're buying used games you're already not a customer and they don't give a shit about you. is right, piracy and used games are practically the same thing. No money goes to the developer, publisher or console maker.

I really don't see how stealing games vs purchasing them from someone else is similar at all.

because the publisher and developer don't care about GameStop getting paid, they want the money to make these games, not to keep a retail store afloat.

used games and piracy both give no money directly to pubs/devs, of course people can pirate a game or buy used then buy DLC, but the initial sale of that game isn't going to the pub/dev, that's how they are similar.

I see how they are similar in that sense, but I don't see how they are ethically similar at all. In one case an individual isn't spending money and in the other he/she is.

I dunno if a used game buyer is really much better than a pirate, after all, you aren't helping that game make a profit, just like a pirate isn't. Does paying some guy on eBay money make it ethically better than pirating? I'd say noooooot really.

It doesn't bother me at all, I just find it funny some people lament pirates but buy used games. It's a funny contradiction.

If you wanna support the industry you buy new, if you want to be cheap you either buy used or pirate, there's just no need to take the moral highground if you're not contributing to the development of these damn games!

I buy used sometimes, I buy new most of the time, and as for piracy, well I'm saying nothing. I've been all over the place!

Are you guys serious? If you have bought something you have a complete right to sell it again and for someone to buy it. This happens with nearly every over type of product. Own any books? You probably got a lot second hand. Own a car? even more likely. Selling used goods has been a completely ethical action forever, hell it's what we did before money.

The used game market is very important especially for people who want to collect old games or don't have much money, it has never had or been ethically wrong in any medium. If the game companies want me to buy new give me an incentive to that isn't some bullshit online pass.

Jesus Christ, I thought I was the only one in this thread not applauding the erosion of consumers rights! I'm still shocked that there are so many people wanting thing to happen and thinking that it will be better for the consumer.

Why are people missing my point over and over again...I never said I want this. I said it doesn't surprise me or bother me, and that those who lament pirates but buy used are contradicting themselves.

Paying some guy on eBay for a game used isn't helping those who put the work and money into that game, neither is pirating. All I'm saying.

I didn't specifically mention you for a reason. I get what you're saying, I was talking about others in the thread though.

I'm just saying that when you play and experience a game that 100+ people worked on for years of their lives you should pay for it, and when I say pay I mean pay the devs/publisher. Yeah it's perfectly in your right to resell and purchase second hand, but it's kind of a big fuck you to the people who actually worked really hard to make the game. In the end all I want is for games to be successful and sell well so that developers can keep on making awesome new games and we can have less studio closures. While I'm certainly not saying stoping used game sales is the perfect solution that will make everything better, it's definitely part of the problem.

I would be fine with no used games if sony and microsoft had a Steam-like marketplace with regular sales and fair pricing. That way people who buy used games can still get their cheap games, and that money goes to the people devs/publishers and console makers, instead of a horrible company like gamestop.

#237 Posted by Shaka999 (424 posts) -

Wait a minute, didn't Gamestop cut deals with most of the publishers who had all that activation code crap anyway? Meaning a measure like this would only benefit the publisher, developer, and the console maker and screw over retailers as well as the most important person(s) in this equation: the consumer. With the precedent already there for publishers to cut deals with retailers I just can't imagine this rumor being true.

#238 Posted by leebmx (1854 posts) -

@Sooty: Hi Sooty. While I agree with the general tenor of your points that people should buy new if they want better games do you not think it is partly the fault of the big games distributors not being creative at all in how they price their products? If they showed some incentive to try and match, or just get anywhere near, the price of used games, for what is intrinsically a better product (after all, it is new), they might have had a lot more success in curbing used sales.

However instead of trying to offer the consumer an incentive for buying new they just try and gimp second-hand games through online passes etc. They have shown no creativity whatsoever, just whined about losing money, while companies like Valve take risks, do research and show them how it is done. It is a marketplace and you can't expect to make money through people's good will - you have to offer a product better than the other guy's, and at the moment they are failing.

#239 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@leebmx said:

@Sooty: Hi Sooty. While I agree with the general tenor of your points that people should buy new if they want better games do you not think it is partly the fault of the big games distributors not being creative at all in how they price their products? If they showed some incentive to try and match, or just get anywhere near, the price of used games, for what is intrinsically a better product (after all, it is new), they might have had a lot more success in curbing used sales.

However instead of trying to offer the consumer an incentive for buying new they just try and gimp second-hand games through online passes etc. They have shown no creativity whatsoever, just whined about losing money, while companies like Valve take risks, do research and show them how it is done. It is a marketplace and you can't expect to make money through people's good will - you have to offer a product better than the other guy's, and at the moment they are failing.

Definitely and that is why the PC is running circles around the 360 and to a lesser extent Sony, PS+ is pretty damn rad.

I'd be all for the next consoles going digital only if I had faith in Microsoft and Sony having reasonable pricing with regular sales for their games, but looking at how absurd the pricing is on retail games old and new on XBLM/PSN that seems like a bad idea. (that and some not taking consoles online)

#240 Posted by LikeaSsur (1430 posts) -
@JasonR86

Retailers wouldn't sell the hardware if they couldn't sell software. Gamestop is still a big seller of new games and they won't sell those new games if they can't sell used games as well. So this won't happen this console generation.

Because as we all know, GameStop is the only company with the ability to sell new games.
#241 Posted by Weird_Pete (23 posts) -

Sorry for the snap post....TL:DR thread.

This would mean GameFly's model wouldn't work anymore. My trusted method of rent, snap-buy for 10% + coupons off retail would be void!

#242 Posted by JasonR86 (9372 posts) -

@LikeaSsur said:

@JasonR86

Retailers wouldn't sell the hardware if they couldn't sell software. Gamestop is still a big seller of new games and they won't sell those new games if they can't sell used games as well. So this won't happen this console generation.

Because as we all know, GameStop is the only company with the ability to sell new games.

Yep, that's exactly what I said.

#243 Posted by Mcfart (1425 posts) -

They won't do it

The money they lose won't be worth the current penalties stemmed from used games and piracy. They'll just make it impossible to pirate (like Nintendo and Sony did with their new handhelds)

#244 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

Erm... this sounds pretty risky with Valve talking about an open source... thing.

If Sony and Microsoft combine to do this, I can just imagine Valve or another company coming in and sweeping up the market.

#245 Edited by ProfessorEss (7123 posts) -
@leebmx said:

I'm turning into a flag waver for the console makers here, something I don't consider myself, but whatever....

Haha, someone's got to or it wouldn't be much of a conversation :P 
I'm typically a rather optimistic person and I appreciate your optimistic viewpoint, but something about the way this industry is run brings out the cynic in me. 
 
But hey, videogames right?
#246 Edited by ohwiseone (74 posts) -

Tl:DR.

My problem is that if it is not online, does that mean you cannot play games on the device?

It is so early, that it's better if we wait.

#247 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

@Mcfart said:

They won't do it

The money they lose won't be worth the current penalties stemmed from used games and piracy. They'll just make it impossible to pirate (like Nintendo and Sony did with their new handhelds)

They're not going to lose a dime. The people who buy used games are broke anyway and won't even buy the console for several years at which point they won't even care if you buy it.

Seriously, Steam sells tons of games and there's no used games. The iOS app store sells millions and millions of apps and none of them are secondhand. You're all going to end up buying the shit anyway, stop crying.

#249 Posted by Xerxes8933A (225 posts) -

The ONLY benefit of Console games over PC is that I can rent console games through gamefly and the like. I'm fine with the always on connection, as I live in a large city and have never lost internet for any meaningful length of time, but I rented over 60 games last year. I hardly used my PS3 this gen, but if I can't play 80% of my games on the next xbox, well that's an easy choice.

#250 Posted by ez123 (1902 posts) -

@GenocidalKitten said:

Yeah, and steam also has tons of awesome sales that keep people happy, the concern is that if there is no used game market then games prices will stay at $60 even months after release.

Who is concerned about that? Maybe if you're talking about a digital-only console but the idea that stores won't have sales without used games is nonsense.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.