Xbox Live Indie Game Removed for being "Too Erotic"

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#1 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -

A visual novel up on Xbox LIVE Indie Games for 240 msp out of Japan has been removed by Microsoft after a complaint from... Microsoft Europe? What? Yeah, the story gets even weirder too. Given a warning that he should remove the game voluntarily, the creator asked Microsoft if there was any way he could remove the content just from Europe. 
 
No dice said MS, take it down or we'll remove it ourselves and ban you from the service. Reluctantly I would imagine, the game has since been taken down. 
 
The offending content? One screen which containted too many reminders of "sexual assault" for Europe's poor little brains to handle. In the scene, a girls hand is restrained, she is lying on the floor, and her panties are visible. There is no sex in the game whatsoever, nor any explicit sexual material. Just this one shot of a girls panties. 
 
So, now that Indie Games are open to all (most) regions, it means that they must all adhere to every regions restrictions? Ok, that might be fine I guess, but what about when those restrictions are ambiguous "reminders of sexual assault" wtf, non-existant (these are not published anywhere at all, officially there are no restrictions, that's what the vetting process is for, to work out whether or not the game is appropriate) and inflexible (the guy asked very politely if it could just be removed from Europe. A logical and perfectly reasonable request, no?) 
 
Honestly, the whole service has taken a knock from this in my eyes, having to adhere to invisible restrictions that can be invoked with just a few complaints from someone half way around the world? No fucking thank you. 
 
Source link: http://kotaku.com/5342256/independant-xbox-live-game-banned-for-visual-sexual-assault-reminders    
#2 Posted by JJOR64 (18882 posts) -

I seen this a few days ago somewhere else.  I think it's kinda dumb.  He have people chainsawing monsters but, can't have someone get pushed over.  I don't get it.

#3 Posted by Black_Rose (7785 posts) -

This is weird, considering that one can't see an European movie without the mandatory full frontal nudity scene....
 
....not that i'm complaining about those

#4 Edited by BiffMcBlumpkin (3720 posts) -
@JJOR64 said:

"I seen this a few days ago somewhere else.  I think it's kinda dumb.  He have people chainsawing monsters but, can't have someone get pushed over.  I don't get it. "


Don't be hyperbolic.You can push people over as much as you like, you just can't push over people who are wearing panties. That's why, in Europe, it's illegal to push over Ryan Davis. 
#5 Posted by JJOR64 (18882 posts) -
@BiffMcBlumpkin said:
" @JJOR64 said:
"I seen this a few days ago somewhere else.  I think it's kinda dumb.  He have people chainsawing monsters but, can't have someone get pushed over.  I don't get it. "
Don't be hyperbolic.You can push people over as much as you like, you just can't push over people who are wearing panties. That's why it's illegal to push over Ryan Davis in most states.  "
Oh shit, my bad.
#6 Posted by Sabata (823 posts) -

Europeans fuckin' shit up for the rest of us again. 
 
THANKS GUYS

#7 Posted by tooPrime (338 posts) -

I think your off base on this one.  The fact that it is even hinting at rape or bondage is pretty creepy. 

#8 Posted by Khann (2761 posts) -

Err... bondage is a pretty normal thing in a lot of peoples bedrooms.

#9 Posted by Bigandtasty (3202 posts) -

huh, I remember seeing that game and chuckling when I went through the indie games tab. Now I can chuckle no more.

#10 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@tooPrime said:
"I think your off base on this one.  The fact that it is even hinting at rape or bondage is pretty creepy.  "

So? There's a difference between "pretty creepy" and "zomg explicit rape/sexual assault!" and imo, the difference should be "not banned" and "banned".
#11 Posted by Pazy (2559 posts) -

I hate this crap, in a fictional piece of media why cant I see something reminds you of sexual assault? You can see someone get completely eviscerated yet apparently a pair of panties a hand on a hand is offensive? Its one thing that you might want to "protect the kids" because your (in my opinion) overprotective but why cant I, as an adult, see that? In fictional media (for example books, film and games) I/you can murder people, whole nations or universe's, have sex with hookers and rape people but a pair of panties and a hand that looks like it might be putting some pressure on to a single arm is too much?

I dont particularely want to play games that feature the rape of someone, though in all honesly the idea of a visual novel entitled "And Yet, I Love You" seems kind of appealing, but I at least want that choice as a consumer to have a story with a rape in it and as a creator, or for the creators, I want the choice of including rape into a story because I can be powerful.

Though as a side note, the image that is included for the scene is essentially the same image used when a crime drame has a rape scene (it usually gets that far then cuts to afterwords or the next day).

#12 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Pazy:

The other odd thing about it is that the text is entirely in Japanese. So the image is being taken out of whatever context it takes place in during the storyline, they are basing this whole thing on that one image alone. Pretty bullshit if you ask me, forget over-protective, it's just complete bullshit.
#13 Posted by Pazy (2559 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
" @Pazy: The other odd thing about it is that the text is entirely in Japanese. So the image is being taken out of whatever context it takes place in during the storyline, they are basing this whole thing on that one image alone. Pretty bullshit if you ask me, forget over-protective, it's just complete bullshit. "
I was thinking that too, I wont have a chance to play it (since it was built in XNA for 360 (though could be recompiled for PC I think) and its entierely in japanese) but has anyone reported on what the story is like? From the name it sounds like a love story, for all I/we know that could actually be a very tender scene where say they both are in a park and fall over and then the guy declares his love (hence are shocked face).
#14 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Pazy: 
 
Honestly I have no idea, having played a few of that type of game I suspect he pins her down and considers... you know, then realises what a twat he is. But yeah, what happens in the scene imo isn't the point, even if it's in that light, i've seen worse in eastenders you know.  
 
I've not read anything about the story but I hear it's a pretty popular game for XBL Indie Games in Japan. The only thing I have read is that it is indeed a love story.
#15 Edited by Pazy (2559 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:

" @Pazy:  Honestly I have no idea, having played a few of that type of game I suspect he pins her down and considers... you know, then realises what a twat he is. But yeah, what happens in the scene imo isn't the point, even if it's in that light, i've seen worse in eastenders you know.   I've not read anything about the story but I hear it's a pretty popular game for XBL Indie Games in Japan. The only thing I have read is that it is indeed a love story. "


If its a love story then even it he realises his love during a potential rape then it dosent seem terrible (versus him being bored, raping a girl then goes back to a seperate story) then this is even more of an over reaction. Screw this crap, soemone needs to learn japanese and get his email then get him to make a PC version and an english translation.
#16 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -

'porting' these games over to PC is a literal one click job (although from PC to Xbox is a little more complicated, but not much, you just have to change a few things and setup the controller) you can distribute the EXE yourself if you like it doesnt have to be through indie games either. 
 
A lot of these games can be gotton in Games for Windows Live as well.
#17 Posted by Pazy (2559 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
" 'porting' these games over to PC is a literal one click job (although from PC to Xbox is a little more complicated, but not much, you just have to change a few things and setup the controller) you can distribute the EXE yourself if you like it doesnt have to be through indie games either.  A lot of these games can be gotton in Games for Windows Live as well. "
Im hoping he does it, if its that simple then at least getting a japanese version out should take no more than an hour (including the compiling into an exe) but I wonder if he would be interested in an english version, theres will probably be enough buzz about it to get some downloads from it and if its good this could get him some fans for PC based Visual Novels if he makes more.
#18 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -

Oh hmm, apparently you can't get indie games on GFWL. At least I can't find them in the menu, odd because the marketplace website didn't state they were Xbox only. Oh well.
#19 Posted by crunchUK (5963 posts) -

O_O wat

#20 Posted by c1337us (5751 posts) -

Boo I guess. Honestly its hard to care about it when its shit game no one in their right mind would... correct myself should want to play.

#21 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@c1337us said:
"Boo I guess. Honestly its hard to care about it when its shit game no one in their right mind would... correct myself should want to play. "

First and foremost that's not relevant, someone could say exactly the same thing about Gears of War, Tomb Raider, Persona 4, or in fact any game they dislike. Considering the genre is popular in the area it originated from, i'd say you're actually pretty ignorant for making that statement, by all rights it's as stupid a statement as the same statement for any of the above games. And actually, as these sorts of games go, it looked like one of reasonable quality. So hardly 'shit'. 
 
The genre or quality of the game in question is only barely relevent to the discussion anyway, it's the moral implications that are under fire here.
#22 Posted by Kazona (3058 posts) -

Wow. Not to be insulting, but normally you'd expect someone from America to complain about a panty shot sooner than you would someone from Europe. Guess there are preuds everywhere you go. 
 
...Makes me wonder if the person (or people) that complained reacts the same way when seeing panties in rl. "ZOMG PANTIES! BANZ IT!!! BANZ IT!!!"

#23 Posted by Cerza (1653 posts) -

Wow that's fucked up. For once I completely agree with you The_A_Train.

#24 Edited by EdIsCool (1122 posts) -
@Sabata said:

" Europeans fuckin' shit up for the rest of us again.  THANKS GUYS "

We're just trying to make up for you guys ruining the planet....by preventing you from playing a xbox live indie game..."Well done Hans, Jean-Michel the Americans will have to stop polluting once we take an xbox live indie game from them"
Calm the fuck down and it was the european divison of Microsoft not all Europeans.
And the decision to ban it didnt come from a european...
#25 Posted by cspiffo (860 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
"
A visual novel up on Xbox LIVE Indie Games for 240 msp out of Japan has been removed by Microsoft after a complaint from... Microsoft Europe? What? Yeah, the story gets even weirder too. Given a warning that he should remove the game voluntarily, the creator asked Microsoft if there was any way he could remove the content just from Europe. 
 
No dice said MS, take it down or we'll remove it ourselves and ban you from the service. Reluctantly I would imagine, the game has since been taken down. 
 
The offending content? One screen which containted too many reminders of "sexual assault" for Europe's poor little brains to handle. In the scene, a girls hand is restrained, she is lying on the floor, and her panties are visible. There is no sex in the game whatsoever, nor any explicit sexual material. Just this one shot of a girls panties. 
 
So, now that Indie Games are open to all (most) regions, it means that they must all adhere to every regions restrictions? Ok, that might be fine I guess, but what about when those restrictions are ambiguous "reminders of sexual assault" wtf, non-existant (these are not published anywhere at all, officially there are no restrictions, that's what the vetting process is for, to work out whether or not the game is appropriate) and inflexible (the guy asked very politely if it could just be removed from Europe. A logical and perfectly reasonable request, no?) 
 
Honestly, the whole service has taken a knock from this in my eyes, having to adhere to invisible restrictions that can be invoked with just a few complaints from someone half way around the world? No fucking thank you. 
 
Source link: http://kotaku.com/5342256/independant-xbox-live-game-banned-for-visual-sexual-assault-reminders     "
I don't know if this is a totally a Microsoft issue.  They are just trying to not stir the pot.  As much as I think region locks can be counterintuitive this story shows the importance of them, especially in the all digital age.  If only the Indie Dev was able to lock certain regions out of the game we wouldn't be talking about this right now.  
 
sigh...Yet more censorship from people who think they know better than you.
#26 Posted by Otacon (2208 posts) -

Hmm, does seem a bit stupid.

#27 Edited by cspiffo (860 posts) -
@Bioderm said:

" americans are fagets they cannot take a bit of sexuality but shooting somebody in the head is fine. "

You're the "faget" (whatever that is)  because you didn't actually read the story.  This is about some European asshole getting their "panties" in a bunch over this...douche
#28 Posted by Bioderm (194 posts) -

sorry I didnt read anything and im an asshole

#29 Posted by L33tfella_H (901 posts) -

i've noticed alot of people in this thread don't get the whole issue correctly.
 
This was a decision made by Microsoft Europe for god knows what reason, people in europe didn't just randomly get up to get a japanese game banned off the service...so it has nothing to do with people of a certain continent.
 
 What it does mean though is that censoring or outright banning something off XBL is that simple...which is a scary thought.

#30 Posted by cspiffo (860 posts) -
@L33tfella_H said:
" i've noticed alot of people in this thread don't get the whole issue correctly.   This was a decision made by Microsoft Europe for god knows what reason, people in europe didn't just randomly get up to get a japanese game banned off the service...so it has nothing to do with people of a certain continent.   What it does mean though is that censoring or outright banning something off XBL is that simple...which is a scary thought. "
A company doesn't decide anything.  People do.  It was either someone inside the European branch at Microsoft who was offended or they received complaints.  So it actually does have to do with people of a certain continent getting all rankled up.
#31 Posted by L33tfella_H (901 posts) -
@cspiffo: right.
#32 Posted by R3cruit3D (106 posts) -
@Sabata said:
"Europeans fuckin' shit up for the rest of us again.  THANKS GUYS "

Erm yes every single person in Europe gets the blame for something just one or two people complain about? That wasn't the fariest of comments. :/  
 
Do we blame America for Iraq? No, just the texas idiot, Bush. Do we blame Germany for the holocaust? No, Just Hitler. (Extreme examples, but extreme examples get the message across).
#33 Posted by L33tfella_H (901 posts) -
@R3cruit3D said:
" @Sabata said:
"Europeans fuckin' shit up for the rest of us again.  THANKS GUYS "
 Do we blame Germany for the holocaust? No, Just Hitler.
i find that an interesting example and good example i guess?
 
since hitler is austrian after all.
#34 Posted by Bucketdeth (8003 posts) -

Anime, lol.

#35 Posted by R3cruit3D (106 posts) -
@L33tfella_H:  Yeah i suppose he was Austrian, but it was Germany i personally think off when he's mentioned.. and I'm sure the same goes for a few others
#36 Posted by CynicalRodent (101 posts) -

This reactionary censorship bullshit really pisses me off.  The fact that it only took a panty shot to get an indie game removed from the marketplace has got to be pretty discouraging to some indie devs out there. Reminds me of how Apple has been cracking the whip recently on the App store.  Damn

#37 Posted by regularassmilk (1375 posts) -
@Sabata said:
" Europeans fuckin' shit up for the rest of us again.  THANKS GUYS "
Lmao
#38 Posted by Sabata (823 posts) -

Lol wow, lots of responses to my post.   
 
I wasn't being serious, guys.

#39 Posted by natetodamax (19164 posts) -

But it's okay for rappers to rap about having sex with females and drugs other explicit things.
 
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

#40 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -

Well admittedly it's more understandable than banning scenes of involving consensual sex. Europe is big on not wanting to depict violent acts in their media; as opposed to the US which is big on not wanting to depict sexual acts in their media. This is kinda dumb yeah but a lot less dumb than the censorship you see from the US.

#41 Posted by Lowbrow (840 posts) -
@Khann: Amen, brother.
#42 Posted by CynicalRodent (101 posts) -
@natetodamax: Y...Yeah? I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.
#43 Posted by Emandudeguyperson (2502 posts) -
@Khann said:
"Err... bondage is a pretty normal thing in a lot of peoples bedrooms. "

You basically just told the whole internet that you're into BDSM.
#44 Posted by Diamond (8634 posts) -

One reason behind this decision : MS wanting to protect their corporate image.  They won't want little Billy to get ahold of a game like this and mommy and daddy to sue MS or raise a media shitstorm.

#45 Posted by CynicalRodent (101 posts) -
@Diamond: Isn't that what the parental controls are for?
#46 Posted by LordAndrew (14417 posts) -
@R3cruit3D said:
" Erm yes every single person in Europe gets the blame for something just one or two people complain about? That wasn't the fariest of comments. :/   Do we blame America for Iraq? No, just the texas idiot, Bush. Do we blame Germany for the holocaust? No, Just Hitler. (Extreme examples, but extreme examples get the message across). "
But by calling him "the texas idiot, Bush", aren't you making a statement about Texans? Seems like you think being from Texas has something to do with his actions. If not, why qualify him that way? Aren't you attempting to discourage that in your post?
#47 Posted by jakob187 (21640 posts) -

RapeLay?  What?

#48 Posted by Bigandtasty (3202 posts) -
@Diamond said:
" One reason behind this decision : MS wanting to protect their corporate image.  They won't want little Billy to get ahold of a game like this and mommy and daddy to sue MS or raise a media shitstorm. "
Speaking of that, are there any controls that prevent you from buying indie games with 3/3 mature content or 3/3 sexual content ratings if your gamertag's age is below 18?
#49 Posted by LordAndrew (14417 posts) -
@Bigandtasty: I don't know if there are controls, but there are content ratings for Xbox Live Indie Games. If those are insufficient, then Microsoft should really be fixing that instead of just banning stuff.
#50 Posted by Carlos1408 (1489 posts) -

What a load of bull poop!

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