Backwards compatibility (On both next-gen consoles)

#1 Posted by KiddoMac (33 posts) -

I have a particular problem with the missing backwards-compatibility this time around. I know the reasons why it exists and being a gamer since the atari 2600 i know it has always been like this.

But…

… iPad.

Yeah, so the ipad (and of course the pc before that) has taught me, that i'm building a library of games that I'll be able to enjoy "forever".

I had the same mindset on the 360. That might completely be my own fault, but good luck Microsoft trying to sell me a pinball game again for me to buy 40+ tables. IF i buy the big brother Xbox one that is.

#2 Posted by Alekss (327 posts) -

I just keep my old consoles. I don't know what's the problem with you people, especially since to my knowleadge only PS2 and Wii U have full backwards compatibility out of the box (with some older systems you needed add-ons).

#3 Posted by MAGZine (438 posts) -

@kiddomac: "PC"

Which has been around for longer and has backwards compatibility to damn-near the beginning of its life.

This is a console phenomena rooted in the choice to use customized hardware each go-round. The only company that seems to even remotely care about BC is Nintendo, and if you look at GB, all you'll see is people waiting for the death of Nintendo. Which is hilarious.

#4 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@kiddomac: If it's any consolation, the next consoles' games should likely be accessible long into the future. Streaming technology continues to advance, and the games' construction shouldn't be as difficult as last generation's to emulate in the future. So, this last generation should be the last time we really have to face this issue.

Plus, the PS4 may show that streaming backwards compatibility can work, and if it can, that will go a long way in making all of your titles accessible in the future.

#5 Posted by KiddoMac (33 posts) -

@alekss said:

I just keep my old consoles. I don't know what's the problem with you people, especially since to my knowleadge only PS2 and Wii U have full backwards compatibility out of the box (with some older systems you needed add-ons).

What do you mean "you people"? ;-)

That is what i usually do. And I'm sure, i can hook up my SNES in 20 years and play Mario, because that thing is built like a brick, the 360 on the other hand… I'm not so sure.

#6 Posted by zFUBARz (637 posts) -

you know all Ipads have been built on a very similar architecture right? they've only been around for like 3 years, while 360 and PS3 hardware is twice as old and came out right before a major change in direct x standards and shader technology, etc. hell I don't think HDR was even a thing at that point.

PC's aren't even backwards compatible to infinity, they're just powerful enough at this point to virtually program the hardware inside them.

#7 Edited by joshwent (2351 posts) -

Even completely "open" systems like PCs aren't inherently backwards compatible. Consider the cumulative hours we've watched the bomb guys just trying to get a damn game to run on DOSBox or whatever.

I can't play my 8 tracks on my iPod, but I would never want a device that made concessions to just be able to interact with antiquated media. And new consoles are scraped thin as it is to reach the lowest price point/highest margin possible.

There is a real danger of loosing that old media, but we're just lucky that there are enough brilliant weirdos out there that do all the archiving work for us. We don't need Microsoft to worry about it when there are emulators and ROMs. And I'm not advocating emulating games you don't own, but just that you can rest assured that someone, somewhere, is gonna make damn sure that Doritos Crash Course 2 will be able to someway be played well into the future.

#8 Posted by StarvingGamer (8551 posts) -
@kiddomac said:

Yeah, so the ipad (and of course the pc before that) has taught me, that i'm building a library of games that I'll be able to enjoy "forever".

Yeah, I can't really think of any iPad games I'd want to enjoy "forever", and it's not even a fair comparison. Calling the iPad "backwards compatible" is like calling the DSi backwards compatible with the DS.

@magzine said:

@kiddomac: "PC"

Which has been around for longer and has backwards compatibility to damn-near the beginning of its life.

Considering the insane hoops you have to jump through to get older PC games working on modern setups, I wouldn't really call it backwards compatible. More like backwards throw enough bullshit at it and eventually it will probably mostly work maybe.

#9 Posted by Green_Incarnate (1791 posts) -

Yeah, same feeling here. I have no intention of trying to build up a library this time around, when I have a perfectly good PC.

#10 Posted by Korwin (3018 posts) -

@joshwent said:

Even completely "open" systems like PCs aren't inherently backwards compatible. Consider the cumulative hours we've watched the bomb guys just trying to get a damn game to run on DOSBox or whatever.

Yes but they did get it working, and they're hardly hardware/software engineers.

#11 Edited by Mikewarrior (77 posts) -

I have a problem with the Digital Content not transferring over.

Btw this is my first post here, and wanted to say I've been a big fan of the show for awhile... Ryan, Jeff, Vinny, Brad, Alex, and even you Patrick, you Nintendo fan you!

#12 Posted by lowestformofwit (239 posts) -

backwards compatibility is just a commercial bullet point they try to accommodate in the early years of a console so little johnny's mum and dad aren't shelling out for a new machine when little johnny has all these games in the house. it's a justification for purchase.

the reality is that once little johnny has the new machine little johnny will rarely touch the old games, if at all - so it makes sense to not spend time and resources developing something that ultimately nobody uses.

i do however feel a bit sad that the digitial content won't be compatible.

#13 Edited by KiddoMac (33 posts) -

@lowestformofwit said:

i do however feel a bit sad that the digitial content won't be compatible.

i'm not so much sad, as i'll just be much more careful in spending my money, keeping in mind that in another 5-10 years my content won't be readily available to me on a newer platform. i guess i was a bit naive.

#14 Edited by Rotnac (817 posts) -

Backwards compatibility is a non-issue for me.

I'm more concerned about what happens with all my XBLA and downloaded Games on Demand titles. If theres absolutely no way to access that stuff on the XONE then it would definitely change my spending habits on what platform to purchase specific multiplatform downloadable games on.

#15 Posted by Karkarov (3268 posts) -

I laugh when people tell me backwards compatibility cant be done on a console and I should live with it. This isn't 1980. It can be done. They even know how to do it. They just don't want to. My PC over here can run games created before the Xbox was even on a drawing board but you think it is "common sense" that xbox games can't run on a Xbox One. Laughable. Hell, my PC can play Xbox games too with an emulator.

Here is the reality. They don't want backwards compatibility because they feel it will do two things.

1: Increase console costs and lower hardware sales.

2: Lower revenue due to fewer E-Shop purchases of old games they forced you to re buy.

#16 Posted by alanm26v5 (463 posts) -

The only reason the PC is as backwards compatible as it is right now is because of unofficial projects such as DOSBox and fan-made patches. If I want to play Shadow Complex 10 years from now, there will probably be a way, but it might not be officially supported. Even if those servers go down, someone's archiving that data on the Internet, even if it's just today's pirates. I just may have to somehow mod a 360 I buy on Ebay 10 years from now to be able to run it. From the Wikipedia page on DMCA exceptions:

"Exemptions are granted when it is shown that access-control technology has had a substantial adverse effect on the ability of people to make non-infringing uses of copyrighted works.

  • Computer programs protected by dongles that prevent access due to malfunction or damage and which are obsolete. A dongle shall be considered obsolete if it is no longer manufactured or if a replacement or repair is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace. (A renewed exemption from 2006, based on a similar exemption approved in 2003.)"
#17 Edited by ProfessorK (829 posts) -

I only have an issue with stuff on live/psn. And I really don't buy some of the architectural stuff. Why the hell can't 3S: Online Edition work on the next console when its a game that's over a decade old and is on both systems. Most of my dl stuff is fighting games that were brought back.Hell, I bought Bloody Roar 1+2 on PSN, do you really expect me to believe that Sony won't try to sell me the same shit again when a fucking smartphone can emulate a PS1?

Original titles I accept but old stuff, that irks me.

#18 Posted by Brendan (8124 posts) -

PC's aren't "backwards compatible" the way some seem to be describing it. PC's are open so a large community of enthusiasts can figure out how to get shit working, but you can't just pop in any old disk or floppy and expect it to work with no effort in many cases. That's the promise of console backwards compatibility: They do 100% of the work for you. That's not the reality on PC, so at least give the platform credit where its actually due.

#19 Posted by MAGZine (438 posts) -

@kiddomac said:

Yeah, so the ipad (and of course the pc before that) has taught me, that i'm building a library of games that I'll be able to enjoy "forever".

Yeah, I can't really think of any iPad games I'd want to enjoy "forever", and it's not even a fair comparison. Calling the iPad "backwards compatible" is like calling the DSi backwards compatible with the DS.

@magzine said:

@kiddomac: "PC"

Which has been around for longer and has backwards compatibility to damn-near the beginning of its life.

Considering the insane hoops you have to jump through to get older PC games working on modern setups, I wouldn't really call it backwards compatible. More like backwards throw enough bullshit at it and eventually it will probably mostly work maybe.

BUT: It works.

Also: GoG.

#20 Posted by MAGZine (438 posts) -

@brendan: And so far that promise has been broken 100% by Sony and Microsoft. So would you rather A+ backwards compatibility for the last 15 years, and more hacky stuff before that... or none at all?

#21 Edited by InsaneGenis (102 posts) -

There really is no excuse why XBLA and PSN games don't transfer to your new console. As someone who buys those when they are discounted and plays them much later, I will now not buy anymore this generation as I may never get around to it.

I'm buying a game on a network/ service. Not a console.

#22 Edited by Brendan (8124 posts) -

@magzine: yknow, if you read my post again I'm sure you'll notice that I didn't pick a side in an argument.

#23 Posted by Oscar__Explosion (2402 posts) -

I don't really care about it now but for the future they are going to have to get their shit together. Why the hell would I buy digital content if your new machine can't run it?

#24 Posted by MAGZine (438 posts) -

@brendan: All I'm saying is that there is no credit due to Sony and Microsoft.

#25 Posted by Brendan (8124 posts) -

@magzine: The platform I was referring to was the PC.

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