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    The Xbox One is Microsoft's third video game console. It was released on November 22nd 2013 in 13 countries.

    Microsoft To Announce Self Publishing

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    strainedeyes

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    #1  Edited By strainedeyes

    Game Informer is reporting that Microsoft will allow self publishing:

    Microsoft To Announce Indie Self-Publishing, New Certification Process

    The cacophony of naysayers drove Microsoft to rethink its position. Under the new directive, developers can set their own release dates and pricing, which should make the erratic nature of Xbox Live releases less problematic for creators who want to handle their own marketing.

    Additionally, we have learned that Microsoft is drastically overhauling its certification process. The company will use a model similar to iTunes and is targeting a 14-day turnaround for an approvals. Instead of extensive code checking, the company will be looking for terms of service violations and significant bugs.

    We've also been told, but cannot confirm, that every Xbox One unit can be converted to a debug console. Instead of specific hardware units, Microsoft can authorize a console ID to play pre-release code. This is in line with information we've received about a new process for beta tests. They will be run via hardware provisioning on Xbox One, with the process reportedly to be enabled for up to 25,000 users per test at launch. Given the ability to provision for beta testing, the ability to enable retail hardware for pre-release code seems feasible.

    It's great that Microsoft is making changes based on consumer and developer reactions, but I can't help but feel like they are just scrambling around.

    The fact that any Xbox One unit can be authorized as a debug unit is nifty.

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    deactivated-601df795ee52f

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    Damn that sounds awesome.

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    chilibean_3

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    #3  Edited By chilibean_3

    It's going to be kind of funny if Steam ends up having the most difficult self publishing system out there.

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    Syed117

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    I guess that's one less thing to complain about. Here is the indie support so many people claim to care about.

    Surprised they are shifting focus so fast and making changes that are better for everyone. It's really starting to feel like Mattrick was holding the entire division back.

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    falserelic

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    Sounds amazing, nothing could possibly go wrong.

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    Syed117

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    Of course you're going to have people still crying that it's too late despite the consoles being still months away.

    Oh well, can't make everyone happy.

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    bacongames

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    On the face of it (execution is always key) this sounds great. This at the very least is probably great news for indies already signed up with MS but I'm sure is a step in the right direction for people already on PS4 to consider going multiplatform. As far as dev relations go, Sony definitely earned it but I'm glad that competition has proved fruitful in a way this industry needed.

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    excast

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    It's great and all that Microsoft is reversing all of these really horrible positions, but I just hope that people continue to hold Microsoft accountable for even having said positions in the first place so that they don't think they can get away with such nonsense in the future.

    Though it makes you wonder how much we can actually trust these people when they just seem to be randomly changing things that were considered even impossible or core features just recently. What's next? A $400 version with no Kinect?

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    shinjin977

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    Yay for competition being consumer's best-friend. I am still holding my judgement tho, considering that whole WinRT limiting to using only 3g of ram thing. If this is that then I am done with hoping to get X1.

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    Pie

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    I haven't really followed this that closely but it seems like they have flip flopped their position about 20 times since the unveil.

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    Syed117

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    #11  Edited By Syed117

    @excast said:

    It's great and all that Microsoft is reversing all of these really horrible positions, but I just hope that people continue to hold Microsoft accountable for even having said positions in the first place so that they don't think they can get away with such nonsense in the future.

    Though it makes you wonder how much we can actually trust these people when they just seem to be randomly changing things that were considered even impossible or core features just recently. What's next? A $400 version with no Kinect?

    I don't really understand these kinds of arguments. Gamers forget extremely quickly.

    Last time, Sony told you to get two jobs to afford the PS3. Did you forget that? How can you possibly support sony this time? Or did you forget that they suffered the biggest online security breach in history? How can you trust them with your personal information?

    Every company has ups and downs. Sony was just as arrogant the last time and they didn't shift focus at this speed to consumer demand.

    Be a cynic and call it whatever you want, but they deserve some kind of credit for drastically changing their entire system infrastructure months after the reveal. They've proven that they are willing to listen.

    I personally don't care about indie games as much as some other people, but this is nothing but good news.

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    TheManWithNoPlan

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    #12  Edited By TheManWithNoPlan

    You know what? I applaud Microsoft for taking all the criticism to heart and making some much needed changes.

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    Deranged

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    This is very good news, especially for indie developers. Opens up the market even further and there is definitely a better chance for them to succeed now as they will obtain twice the consumers.

    I'm very excited to see how this expands over the next few months. Definitely the most exciting summer yet!

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    Nicked

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    That's cool, though it makes Microsoft look increasingly reactionary in the short term. You almost expect them to remove the Kinect requirement at this rate. It will be interesting to see what the specifics of these policy changes are and how they'll actually work in practice, but this is great news for indie developers.

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    SchrodngrsFalco

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    #15  Edited By SchrodngrsFalco

    Wow! Things just keep getting more and more interesting. The changes that MS are making are showing, like others have said, that they indeed know when they've wronged. Now I'm sure it's still about money, just as any corporation, but it's something. With this kind of drama already going on this summer, there is no way I can justify picking a console come launch because who knows where the companies (and more so the hardware) themselves will stand after several months out on the market.

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    xyzygy

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    #16  Edited By xyzygy

    Amazing news. Can't wait to own this system. Microsoft is earning my respect rapidly.

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    jimmyfenix

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    @syed117 said:

    @excast said:

    It's great and all that Microsoft is reversing all of these really horrible positions, but I just hope that people continue to hold Microsoft accountable for even having said positions in the first place so that they don't think they can get away with such nonsense in the future.

    Though it makes you wonder how much we can actually trust these people when they just seem to be randomly changing things that were considered even impossible or core features just recently. What's next? A $400 version with no Kinect?

    I don't really understand these kinds of arguments. Gamers forget extremely quickly.

    Last time, Sony told you to get two jobs to afford the PS3. Did you forget that? How can you possibly support sony this time? Or did you forget that they suffered the biggest online security breach in history? How can you trust them with your personal information?

    Every company has ups and downs. Sony was just as arrogant the last time and they didn't shift focus at this speed to consumer demand.

    Be a cynic and call it whatever you want, but they deserve some kind of credit for drastically changing their entire system infrastructure months after the reveal. They've proven that they are willing to listen.

    I personally don't care about indie games as much as some other people, but this is nothing but good news.

    If Microsoft spent YEARS making all of those bullshit restrictions up whats stopping them from putting them on the console in the future ? They don't deserve any credit for doing a 180 and that is the same with sony for what happened back then. No major company can be trusted. its all about competition Sony made drastic changes to the ps3 back then to make up ground against the 360 not because they were listening but losing money and the competition to Microsoft and this is the same thing which is happening now.

    Jeff was right in the recent bombcast these trends will just keep continuing until either the industry caves or people stop making home consoles.

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    xyzygy

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    #18  Edited By xyzygy

    @jimmyfenix said:
    @syed117 said:

    @excast said:

    It's great and all that Microsoft is reversing all of these really horrible positions, but I just hope that people continue to hold Microsoft accountable for even having said positions in the first place so that they don't think they can get away with such nonsense in the future.

    Though it makes you wonder how much we can actually trust these people when they just seem to be randomly changing things that were considered even impossible or core features just recently. What's next? A $400 version with no Kinect?

    I don't really understand these kinds of arguments. Gamers forget extremely quickly.

    Last time, Sony told you to get two jobs to afford the PS3. Did you forget that? How can you possibly support sony this time? Or did you forget that they suffered the biggest online security breach in history? How can you trust them with your personal information?

    Every company has ups and downs. Sony was just as arrogant the last time and they didn't shift focus at this speed to consumer demand.

    Be a cynic and call it whatever you want, but they deserve some kind of credit for drastically changing their entire system infrastructure months after the reveal. They've proven that they are willing to listen.

    I personally don't care about indie games as much as some other people, but this is nothing but good news.

    If Microsoft spent YEARS making all of those bullshit restrictions up whats stopping them from putting them on the console in the future ? They don't deserve any credit for doing a 180 and that is the same with sony for what happened back then. No major company can be trusted. its all about competition Sony made drastic changes to the ps3 back then to make up ground against the 360 not because they were listening but losing money and the competition to Microsoft and this is the same thing which is happening now.

    Jeff was right in the recent bombcast these trends will just keep continuing until either the industry caves or people stop making home consoles.

    You could still just as easily say that Sony spent YEARS developing the PS3 to be the more expensive console and to come out with that type of arrogance. And you could also say that their online security before the hack was fairly weak in comparison to other companies for... YEARS.

    The difference is that Microsoft is listening well before their console is released and has accordingly made changes. Sony in fact did not make changes until 1 - 2 years after the console was released. They kept up their arrogance until after the console was released and said "shit we need to make changes". Microsoft is seeing reactions and quickly adapting to them, well before launch.

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    kpaadet

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    #19  Edited By kpaadet

    @syed117: And Sony took at huge loss because of their arrogance this gen, they went from having the best selling console of all time to not. MS should not be giving any credit for these flip flops, we all know what their console would look like if they had their way.

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    Syed117

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    #20  Edited By Syed117

    @jimmyfenix: some people choose to be cynics. That's fine. I don't really live my life expecting the worst out of everything. Do you really think anyone would ever trust them or any company again if half way through the life cycle, they brought back the policies that created the biggest internet mob in gaming history? What do you think would happen when they launch the next xbox after the xbox one?

    Yes, these are corporations and they exist to make money, but does that matter to me personally? Of course not. I don't have any stake in Sony or Microsoft. All that matters to me as a gamer is the net result after everything has settled.

    This decision is great for developers and gamers and since I'm the latter, I'm happy about it. It's just one more thing people said they wanted and Microsoft reacted quickly enough to give it to them. It doesn't matter if its just for money, or publicity, or anything else because the net is positive for the people who just want to play games.

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    Syed117

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    #21  Edited By Syed117

    @kpaadet: yeah, but they aren't haven't it their way. They are having it consumers way. They are giving it to people the way they want. One by one they are getting rid of every single thing that people complained about. They were humbled and they are reacting before that thing even hits shelves.

    Sony forced a $600 machine on the market and didnt budge for a long time.

    By getting these things out if the way now, they won't have to deal with them at launch. You think anyone is going to bring these things up four months from now? Of course not. By that time, indies will have their self publishing and there won't be a discussion. Just like the talk of used games and online check ins has died, so will this.

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    xyzygy

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    #22  Edited By xyzygy

    @kpaadet said:

    @syed117: And Sony took at huge loss because of their arrogance this gen, they went from having the best selling console of all time to not. MS should not be giving any credit for these flip flops, we all know what their console would look like if they had their way.

    This makes no sense though. MS had rightly estimated that launching a year earlier than Sony would give them an early lead, and it did. Not only that but their pricing was more affordable compared to the $700 dollar PS3 (It was around 700 dollars here in Canada when it released, not sure about other regions). So the reason they were so arrogant was because they needed a way to justify the price and lateness of the console, so they took the whole "you should take two jobs to buy a PS3" route. Saying that MS only succeeded early on because of Sony's arrogant flip-flops is just wrong because MS made two important smart moves - the cheaper console, and the early launch.

    Right now, they're looking at the mistakes of the PS3 and they know that they cannot be arrogant like Sony was or they will struggle, like the PS3 did until about 2009. I don't see why that isn't worth giving them credit.

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    jimmyfenix

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    @xyzygy said:

    @jimmyfenix said:
    @syed117 said:

    @excast said:

    It's great and all that Microsoft is reversing all of these really horrible positions, but I just hope that people continue to hold Microsoft accountable for even having said positions in the first place so that they don't think they can get away with such nonsense in the future.

    Though it makes you wonder how much we can actually trust these people when they just seem to be randomly changing things that were considered even impossible or core features just recently. What's next? A $400 version with no Kinect?

    I don't really understand these kinds of arguments. Gamers forget extremely quickly.

    Last time, Sony told you to get two jobs to afford the PS3. Did you forget that? How can you possibly support sony this time? Or did you forget that they suffered the biggest online security breach in history? How can you trust them with your personal information?

    Every company has ups and downs. Sony was just as arrogant the last time and they didn't shift focus at this speed to consumer demand.

    Be a cynic and call it whatever you want, but they deserve some kind of credit for drastically changing their entire system infrastructure months after the reveal. They've proven that they are willing to listen.

    I personally don't care about indie games as much as some other people, but this is nothing but good news.

    If Microsoft spent YEARS making all of those bullshit restrictions up whats stopping them from putting them on the console in the future ? They don't deserve any credit for doing a 180 and that is the same with sony for what happened back then. No major company can be trusted. its all about competition Sony made drastic changes to the ps3 back then to make up ground against the 360 not because they were listening but losing money and the competition to Microsoft and this is the same thing which is happening now.

    Jeff was right in the recent bombcast these trends will just keep continuing until either the industry caves or people stop making home consoles.

    You could still just as easily say that Sony spent YEARS developing the PS3 to be the more expensive console and to come out with that type of arrogance. And you could also say that their online security before the hack was fairly weak in comparison to other companies for... YEARS.

    The difference is that Microsoft is listening well before their console is released and has accordingly made changes. Sony in fact did not make changes until 1 - 2 years after the console was released. They kept up their arrogance until after the console was released and said "shit we need to make changes". Microsoft is seeing reactions and quickly adapting to them, well before launch.

    You hit the nail in the head. Who was it that made microsoft make all of those changes?. it sure as hell wasn't people on the internet who were complaining and petitions.

    It was the fact that their competition was doing the opposite and gaining ground. everyone is hoping for a kinectless console but microsoft came out today and said its great value for money. i will reserve my judgement about the kinect until it is out and people have used it.

    If Microsoft are listening to people how come they are not listening to the people who want the DRM back on the console ? It is laughable when people think big major companies care about the minority of people who have an "issue" with the respected product.

    Kaz hirai made a video to stakeholders in sony pleading them to stay aboard a few days ago he didn't make a video to the consumers cause he knows the consumers will simply not buy any of the products. all of these decisions at Microsoft are probably coming from the board of directors or the stakeholders.

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    iamjohn

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    #24  Edited By iamjohn
    @xyzygy said:

    @jimmyfenix said:
    @syed117 said:

    @excast said:

    It's great and all that Microsoft is reversing all of these really horrible positions, but I just hope that people continue to hold Microsoft accountable for even having said positions in the first place so that they don't think they can get away with such nonsense in the future.

    Though it makes you wonder how much we can actually trust these people when they just seem to be randomly changing things that were considered even impossible or core features just recently. What's next? A $400 version with no Kinect?

    I don't really understand these kinds of arguments. Gamers forget extremely quickly.

    Last time, Sony told you to get two jobs to afford the PS3. Did you forget that? How can you possibly support sony this time? Or did you forget that they suffered the biggest online security breach in history? How can you trust them with your personal information?

    Every company has ups and downs. Sony was just as arrogant the last time and they didn't shift focus at this speed to consumer demand.

    Be a cynic and call it whatever you want, but they deserve some kind of credit for drastically changing their entire system infrastructure months after the reveal. They've proven that they are willing to listen.

    I personally don't care about indie games as much as some other people, but this is nothing but good news.

    If Microsoft spent YEARS making all of those bullshit restrictions up whats stopping them from putting them on the console in the future ? They don't deserve any credit for doing a 180 and that is the same with sony for what happened back then. No major company can be trusted. its all about competition Sony made drastic changes to the ps3 back then to make up ground against the 360 not because they were listening but losing money and the competition to Microsoft and this is the same thing which is happening now.

    Jeff was right in the recent bombcast these trends will just keep continuing until either the industry caves or people stop making home consoles.

    You could still just as easily say that Sony spent YEARS developing the PS3 to be the more expensive console and to come out with that type of arrogance. And you could also say that their online security before the hack was fairly weak in comparison to other companies for... YEARS.

    The difference is that Microsoft is listening well before their console is released and has accordingly made changes. Sony in fact did not make changes until 1 - 2 years after the console was released. They kept up their arrogance until after the console was released and said "shit we need to make changes". Microsoft is seeing reactions and quickly adapting to them, well before launch.

    The thing is, I also wouldn't blame anyone who held that against Sony because it was well deserved. Hell, Guacamelee was the first thing I bought from the PlayStation Store after the outage because I straight up refused to give them my trust afterwards. Granted this isn't anywhere near the same scenario (Sony's problem directly affected consumers; this indirectly affects them, and even less so if those consumers are willing to play games on other platforms) but why shouldn't anyone be skeptical of this kind of backpedaling after saying for weeks how much it hasn't been a pressing concern despite it being something developers have complained about for years?

    The problem is exactly like @syed117 said: gamers have a terrible memory and are happy to forget this shit so long as the company makes something we like, when really we should be remembering every time they fuck with us so we can say "never again" and actually mean it. They deserve credit for finally listening but they don't deserve that much, because the fact that it took this long for them to get on the same page as their competition (Christ, even fucking Nintendo beat them to the punch) is downright embarrassing. That the reaction to Xbox One had to be this negative for them to finally listen tells me that the types of games they think are important (read: prioritizing established publishers that already have their approval) don't align with mine.

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    Subjugation

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    @pie said:

    I haven't really followed this that closely but it seems like they have flip flopped their position about 20 times since the unveil.

    Or once? I'm not sure where you've been getting your information, but you might not want to get it there anymore.

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    GERALTITUDE

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    #26  Edited By GERALTITUDE

    Good.

    But.

    The whole just like iTunes better not really mean just like iTunes. The App store is an unbelievable sea of shit and no console store needs to be like that.

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    xyzygy

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    #27  Edited By xyzygy

    @iamjohn: So do you think Microsoft is forever condemned, or will this also just be forgotten? The general consensus of Sony right now is that they can do no wrong despite all their past mishaps. Yet when people read articles like this about Microsoft, there are always those who bring up their own past mishaps, which mind you are not as severe as Sony's because like you said they did not directly affect customers (the PSN hack).

    Perhaps it is because MS's mishaps are more recent, which comes back to what @syed117 is saying about gamer's memories...

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    JouselDelka

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    I can't help but feel like they are just scrambling around.

    Exactly. I'm not buying that console in a million years, it's a blunder.

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    iamjohn

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    @xyzygy said:

    @iamjohn: So do you think Microsoft is forever condemned, or will this also just be forgotten? The general consensus of Sony right now is that they can do no wrong despite all their past mishaps. Yet when people read articles like this about Microsoft, there are always those who bring up their own past mishaps, which mind you are not as severe as Sony's because like you said they did not directly affect customers (the PSN hack).

    Perhaps it is because MS's mishaps are more recent, which comes back to what @syed117 is saying about gamer's memories...

    They shouldn't be any more condemned than Sony was for every way they fucked up the PS3; Sony got everything they deserved this generation on both ends (the part where they so screwed it up that they gave Microsoft a huge head start, and the part where they so turned it around that they've sold more worldwide). People should not forget this, not for a long time. The real problem is that now that this isn't an issue anymore, it will be forgotten tomorrow, never to be brought up again until the next arrogant, anti-consumer move Microsoft tries to pull. That's what really bothers me, the idea that now that it doesn't affect us we're supposed to think Microsoft is all great and on our side again.

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    strainedeyes

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    #30  Edited By strainedeyes

    Microsoft has confirmed the earlier reports. link:

    Our vision is that every person can be a creator. That every Xbox One can be used for development. That every game and experience can take advantage of all of the features of Xbox One and Xbox LIVE. This means self-publishing. This means Kinect, the cloud, achievements. This means great discoverability on Xbox LIVE. We'll have more details on the program and the timeline at gamescom in August.

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    Pie

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    Syed117

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    #32  Edited By Syed117

    @jouseldelka: yup, it's easy to forgive other companies because their mistakes mean nothing.

    Nothing wrong with that I guess, just funny to see people completely ignore one company's mistakes while tossing the other under the bus.

    Personal irrational biases are always entertaining.

    A HUGE part of this is that every xbox one can serve as a development kit. That's ridiculous. A $500 dev kit? That opens the door to unlimited people wanting to make games. I think that is as big a deal as self publishing.

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    kpaadet

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    @xyzygy said:

    @kpaadet said:

    @syed117: And Sony took at huge loss because of their arrogance this gen, they went from having the best selling console of all time to not. MS should not be giving any credit for these flip flops, we all know what their console would look like if they had their way.

    This makes no sense though. MS had rightly estimated that launching a year earlier than Sony would give them an early lead, and it did. Not only that but their pricing was more affordable compared to the $700 dollar PS3 (It was around 700 dollars here in Canada when it released, not sure about other regions). So the reason they were so arrogant was because they needed a way to justify the price and lateness of the console, so they took the whole "you should take two jobs to buy a PS3" route. Saying that MS only succeeded early on because of Sony's arrogant flip-flops is just wrong because MS made two important smart moves - the cheaper console, and the early launch.

    Right now, they're looking at the mistakes of the PS3 and they know that they cannot be arrogant like Sony was or they will struggle, like the PS3 did until about 2009. I don't see why that isn't worth giving them credit.

    Hmm you seem to misunderstand me, I was responding to someone basicly saying Sony's mistakes didn't cost them anything because consumers quickly forget.

    And then I mentioned I dont think MS should get any credit for all these 180's they have been doing with Xbox One.

    Yet you don't make much sense when you say: "Right now, they're looking at the mistakes of the PS3 and they know that they cannot be arrogant like Sony", even though they are the most expensive console (just like the PS3), making stupid statements like "we are overdelivering on value" which can be compared to "people will get two jobs...". They are in fact making many of the same mistakes Sony made pre-PS3. Though that wasn't really the point I was trying to make.

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    kpaadet

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    @syed117 said:

    @kpaadet: yeah, but they aren't haven't it their way. They are having it consumers way. They are giving it to people the way they want. One by one they are getting rid of every single thing that people complained about. They were humbled and they are reacting before that thing even hits shelves.

    Sony forced a $600 machine on the market and didnt budge for a long time.

    By getting these things out if the way now, they won't have to deal with them at launch. You think anyone is going to bring these things up four months from now? Of course not. By that time, indies will have their self publishing and there won't be a discussion. Just like the talk of used games and online check ins has died, so will this.

    I don't really see how an expensive machine is so horrible, did Sony hold a gun to your head and forced you to buy it? I think forcing gimmicks like kinect is much worse, I mean you can always lower the price over time but if what MS is saying is true (and who knows at this point) kinect will always be requied for Xbox one to work.

    Also if you think the used games and DRM dosn't matter any longer I think you are being overly optimistic. I still think there are many people with a sour taste in their mouth over that hole thing, and might mentally already have jumped ship.

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    JouselDelka

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    @syed117 said:

    @jouseldelka: yup, it's easy to forgive other companies because their mistakes mean nothing.

    Nothing wrong with that I guess, just funny to see people completely ignore one company's mistakes while tossing the other under the bus.

    Personal irrational biases are always entertaining.

    A HUGE part of this is that every xbox one can serve as a development kit. That's ridiculous. A $500 dev kit? That opens the door to unlimited people wanting to make games. I think that is as big a deal as self publishing.

    I don't see any mistakes being rectified in them aiming to lower the price, remove disgusting DRM or allow self-publishing. These aren't mistakes, that's not what 'mistake' means. Being an asshole then not getting away with it is what it's called.

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    Blu3V3nom07

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    #36  Edited By Blu3V3nom07

    I just want Fez II out of this, on XONE. I don't give fuck bout anyone's grudge or whatever. And port over some Super Amazing Wagon Adventure, cuz :D

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    xyzygy

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    #37  Edited By xyzygy

    @kpaadet said:

    @xyzygy said:

    @kpaadet said:

    @syed117: And Sony took at huge loss because of their arrogance this gen, they went from having the best selling console of all time to not. MS should not be giving any credit for these flip flops, we all know what their console would look like if they had their way.

    This makes no sense though. MS had rightly estimated that launching a year earlier than Sony would give them an early lead, and it did. Not only that but their pricing was more affordable compared to the $700 dollar PS3 (It was around 700 dollars here in Canada when it released, not sure about other regions). So the reason they were so arrogant was because they needed a way to justify the price and lateness of the console, so they took the whole "you should take two jobs to buy a PS3" route. Saying that MS only succeeded early on because of Sony's arrogant flip-flops is just wrong because MS made two important smart moves - the cheaper console, and the early launch.

    Right now, they're looking at the mistakes of the PS3 and they know that they cannot be arrogant like Sony was or they will struggle, like the PS3 did until about 2009. I don't see why that isn't worth giving them credit.

    Hmm you seem to misunderstand me, I was responding to someone basicly saying Sony's mistakes didn't cost them anything because consumers quickly forget.

    And then I mentioned I dont think MS should get any credit for all these 180's they have been doing with Xbox One.

    Yet you don't make much sense when you say: "Right now, they're looking at the mistakes of the PS3 and they know that they cannot be arrogant like Sony", even though they are the most expensive console (just like the PS3), making stupid statements like "we are overdelivering on value" which can be compared to "people will get two jobs...". They are in fact making many of the same mistakes Sony made pre-PS3. Though that wasn't really the point I was trying to make.

    Ah, sorry for misunderstanding.

    But let me clarify what I meant. There is a difference between the PS3 release and X1 release, and that's Kinect. Sure, I know the whole argument against Kinect, it's been bashed to death, whatever. The PS3 didn't have anything extra. It was just a huge gaming console and a controller for 700$.

    I remember seeing a breakdown of an estimation of how much it costs MS to make each X1 and it was like 400 - 430 dollars or something, Kinect included. The 500 dollar price point makes sense. I think that if the Kinect 2.0 does what it's supposed to do, it will be worthwhile as word gets around about it.

    Again I know why people don't want Kinect so no reason to bring that up again, I'm just pointing out that that's why it's more expensive and it is actually for a reason for this time.

    (But personally I think it's cool and I don't mind spending another 100 dollars if they're going to bundle it in, AND if it works like it's supposed to. I think the most interesting aspects of it aren't motion sensing stuff anyway.)

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    xyzygy

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    @syed117 said:

    @jouseldelka: yup, it's easy to forgive other companies because their mistakes mean nothing.

    Nothing wrong with that I guess, just funny to see people completely ignore one company's mistakes while tossing the other under the bus.

    Personal irrational biases are always entertaining.

    A HUGE part of this is that every xbox one can serve as a development kit. That's ridiculous. A $500 dev kit? That opens the door to unlimited people wanting to make games. I think that is as big a deal as self publishing.

    I don't see any mistakes being rectified in them aiming to lower the price, remove disgusting DRM or allow self-publishing. These aren't mistakes, that's not what 'mistake' means. Being an asshole then not getting away with it is what it's called.

    Then what mistakes are you talking about? Aiming for a lower price, removing DRM and allowing for sefl publishing are three fairly important and huge things and they were all done to please Xbox fans and developers. The only other thing I can see as an argument is Kinect, but that's a whole other story. Some people think it looks neat and some don't and MS can't please everybody.

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