The Guns of Navarro: Microsoft's One-Track Mind

#101 Posted by fiberpay (282 posts) -

@jimmyfenix: I know right! Like whats he going to say to that!

#102 Edited by DoctorWelch (2765 posts) -

I find this entire negative reaction as a great example of how truly immature and irrational most of the vocal portion of the internet is. The machines and the games aren't coming out for another 6 months and everyone is passing insane judgments about something they know almost nothing about simply because they didn't see the games that are going to be shown in about two weeks.

Microsoft has some interesting and ambitious ideas about what they can do with the new console, and I think it would actually be pretty sweet if they delivered on all the stuff they promised. Even if all the kinect, TV, and multitasking stuff doesn't work it has almost no effect on the games. The games are going to be made whether its for the Sony console, Microsoft console, Nintendo console, or the PC. Why not just sit back and see what happens. There's no need to freak out about something you know very little about. It's interesting, and even if it isn't exactly what you want, who cares. Stop crying about it and just wait to see what happens.

Maybe the Xbox One will be the worst travesty ever to happen to the gaming industry, but maybe it will be this awesome console that delivers on most of what it tried to promise. The fact is no one truly knows. So why spend so much time bitching, worrying, and freaking out. Just calm down, and play the good games where they fall.

#103 Posted by Catlicker (200 posts) -

So Microsoft will be Microsoft, after all.

#104 Edited by iragequit (334 posts) -

Been waiting on this article. You summed it up well, Alex.

#105 Posted by iragequit (334 posts) -

@fiberpay: We all know that GB could very well run multiple articles on every little rumour and event, but they don't.

You're off base here.

#106 Edited by RobotSquad (219 posts) -

What's odd to me is that allegedly this reveal was pushed back a month. You'd think they would use that time to get their story straight.

#107 Edited by KittyVonDoom (445 posts) -

I have the answer to all of your questions:

Smartglass.

#108 Edited by BD_Mr_Bubbles (1702 posts) -

@naeblis213 said:

After watching both presentations, I felt like Sony's PS4 conference gave me an understanding of what I'd be getting with their console, for better or for worse. After Microsoft's, I felt like I got nothing new from it at all.

That's the thought I had yesterday going back to watch the PS4 reveal.

#109 Edited by Pezen (1670 posts) -

@doctorwelch: People have strong reactions because, contrary to how it may look, they care. And some maybe more than they should, but even so. It's coming from a place of passion. However, the main problem isn't so much that people overreact as Microsoft hasn't done much to put out it's own fires effectively. It has a sense of swagger about itself that reeks "oh internet", and while I am sure a lot of the whining fanboys/girls will eventually end up with a console or two, this is actually the first time in all the console switches to my memory that I am finding a lot more negativity in regards to a coming generation from both core users as casual ones in my surrounding. People feel much more reserved, skeptical and disinterested. There is not that much wonder and curiosity as there used to be. But maybe that's me and my generation getting older.

#110 Posted by darkdragonmage99 (741 posts) -

I've got an even better question who's to say GameStop will even carry xbox one systems or games at all if Microsoft really is trying to take 90% of their profits ? Retail would be well within their rights to tell microsoft to go fuck it's self and figure out how they are going to sell anything to the masses without any support from them.

#111 Posted by fustacluck (95 posts) -

Some of the anger toward Microsoft's event is genuinely unwarranted, specifically because the company had been quite up-front about the fact that this conference was for a broader, mainstream audience. The event the core audience was hoping for, the one with lots of games and less talk about ancillary things like TV signals and NFL partnerships, would be coming at E3. It said this several times, in fact, so if you were one of those people screaming "BUT WHERE ARE THE GAMES?!?" at your screen, you likely did this for naught.

A lot of the post-event commentary by games journalists has been along the lines of "Well, we knew all along that this wouldn't be about the games", but if that's so then games journalists kept this a better secret than Microsoft did with the name of the machine. A quick look through Giant Bomb's news will tell anyone that this wasn't reported, and I don't remember anyone else reporting it, even Larry Hryb, so I can't help feeling betrayed that these same journalists are now blaming us for feeling that it was going to be anything but a US-centric TV showcase. If the company had been up front about this, as you say, then why was every games journalist on Earth excited to see this show, speculating on all kinds of game-related reveals, GB included? And, afterwards, why did those same journalists look like Microsoft had kicked their dogs? There was not one post-event show that didn't highlight the disappointment that it took 35 mins into an hour presentation before they got onto games, and then the ten minutes used to cover that, without any gameplay shown. How did they, and your site, feel that way if that was what was expected?

What was shown at the reveal should have been shown at something more appropriate like CES. It was a showcase only meant to attract electronics consumers in the USA, so putting it on XBox Live globally was completely the wrong arena that could only breed disappointment and anger.

Also, after the furore that was kicked up over the fake game trailers used in the PS3 reveal, how has the use of CG trailers, presented as gameplay, been accepted so easily for the XBox One reveal?

#112 Posted by fustacluck (95 posts) -

@darkdragonmage99 said:

I've got an even better question who's to say GameStop will even carry xbox one systems or games at all if Microsoft really is trying to take 90% of their profits ? Retail would be well within their rights to tell microsoft to go fuck it's self and figure out how they are going to sell anything to the masses without any support from them.

Because I'll bet that the "used game solution" that MS have been alluding to will be of some benefit to Gamestop and other retailers (I'm gonna guess that it involves the purchase of codes from MS, that then get a huge mark up on the value of the code and the fiver they give the sucker in exchange for the disc). The lack of comment from retailers over this issue says a lot. MS know that they need retailers if only to sell the machines. That's why the system as described, then back-pedalled, only really attacks the customer.

#113 Posted by Humanity (10123 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@fiberpay said:

@hailinel: So they showed one PS4 game at the PS4 reveal and told us none of their services........wow another home run Sony.

Actually I would rather know a little bit about the services than just have Sony say "ummm yea we got used games". Thanks Sony that tells me alot. I'm on board with the PS4 so much information!!!

Allow me to reiterate again, using simple sentences and small words:

Sony did not state many specifics, but neither did they misinform the press and public with contradictory statements. They have left the press and public wondering what they will reveal at E3.

Microsoft did not state many specifics, but when pressed, gave multiple contradictory answers regarding key points people had been wondering about for months, resulting in confusion and anger.

I'm sorry. Some of those words may have been too large for you. Regardless, I'm done here. Talk to you later.

No information can arguably be just as bad as misleading information as it just leads to rumor and speculation. I thought both reveals were alright with individual strengths and weaknesses. The big difference was that Sony made a lot of big claims without getting into details about how those would actually work in practice, which while just as unclear, had everyone came away from the conference with a cautiously optimistic outlook. We still don't know pretty much anything about either console apart from some lofty buzzwords and promises that may or may not hold water later down the year. So while I don't really want to side with this specific poster all that much I will agree that these are slightly exaggerated editorials if you wish to call them that, as both companies have the better part of the next 6 months to clear up any miscommunication with their potential future consumers. All of this, the drama, inane talks about boycotting the console and so forth will be forgotten once these things actually hit the stores and you can read very clear bullet point features and systems specs on every major media outlet.

As a complete side note I enjoyed Alex's write-up which was surprisingly almost completely devoid of snark or bite, and instead packed with calm and retrospective discourse. In stark contrast I didn't really like Patricks article as much as I thought he was a bit too emotional and reminiscent of what I've been reading on forums all over the internet, which struck me as disappointing considering he's been in the industry long enough to know better.

#114 Posted by DocHaus (1377 posts) -

This is about as good a commentary on the X-Bone that we're going to read until more information comes out. Good job.

#115 Edited by Oginam (447 posts) -

@thrice_604: It was prime time in EU and announcing stuff at 10 pst in the US is for the mainstream media cycle. It isn't about who actually "watches" the event, its about the coverage that follows; several hours of a talking head saying "new Microsoft XBOX" on the news, plenty of time for websites to have articles, and time enough for newspapers to write up stories for the next day.

#116 Edited by Cold_Wolven (2295 posts) -

Great article Alex and I think you are spot on with the problem with the conference, the lack of clear answers from the post interviews. Rumors about Microsoft's stance on used games and the need for an internet connection have been around for months, why then were the executives unprepared to give precise answers to these topics is puzzling.

Overall the whole conference felt like a wash and a poor way to unveil what probably is a cool piece of technology. I think the real issue was time, it's only less than 3 weeks from E3 so there never was going to be big game reveals and what was left to showcase was I perceive to be secondary features only there to complement the primary purpose for spending ~$300-$400.

#117 Posted by fustacluck (95 posts) -

@humanity said:

@hailinel said:

@fiberpay said:

@hailinel: So they showed one PS4 game at the PS4 reveal and told us none of their services........wow another home run Sony.

Actually I would rather know a little bit about the services than just have Sony say "ummm yea we got used games". Thanks Sony that tells me alot. I'm on board with the PS4 so much information!!!

Allow me to reiterate again, using simple sentences and small words:

Sony did not state many specifics, but neither did they misinform the press and public with contradictory statements. They have left the press and public wondering what they will reveal at E3.

Microsoft did not state many specifics, but when pressed, gave multiple contradictory answers regarding key points people had been wondering about for months, resulting in confusion and anger.

I'm sorry. Some of those words may have been too large for you. Regardless, I'm done here. Talk to you later.

No information can arguably be just as bad as misleading information as it just leads to rumor and speculation. I thought both reveals were alright with individual strengths and weaknesses. The big difference was that Sony made a lot of big claims without getting into details about how those would actually work in practice, which while just as unclear, had everyone came away from the conference with a cautiously optimistic outlook. We still don't know pretty much anything about either console apart from some lofty buzzwords and promises that may or may not hold water later down the year. So while I don't really want to side with this specific poster all that much I will agree that these are slightly exaggerated editorials if you wish to call them that, as both companies have the better part of the next 6 months to clear up any miscommunication with their potential future consumers. All of this, the drama, inane talks about boycotting the console and so forth will be forgotten once these things actually hit the stores and you can read very clear bullet point features and systems specs on every major media outlet.

As a complete side note I enjoyed Alex's write-up which was surprisingly almost completely devoid of snark or bite, and instead packed with calm and retrospective discourse. In stark contrast I didn't really like Patricks article as much as I thought he was a bit too emotional and reminiscent of what I've been reading on forums all over the internet, which struck me as disappointing considering he's been in the industry long enough to know better.

Wow, seems a lot of people saw a different Sony meeting than I did.

I saw demonstrations of PS4 games being demonstrated in realtime, both on PS4 and PS Vita by way of remote play. I saw a demonstration and an explanation of the share button. I saw tech demos. I saw an explanation of the many ways that GaiKai would be used on the system. I saw a trickle of some system specs that actually make sense to customers (not just the likes of "15 billion transistors" and "rocket science stuff" that mean nothing). That's all off the top of my head.

I saw none of this in the Microsoft reveal, only seeing demonstrations of the TV functionality that I can't have (at the time of the meeting Microsoft hadn't even approached the main content provider in my country, Sky, as they reported in the following days), using the Kinect system that I don't want, and apps that Microsoft don't make available to me. It ended with video of cut scenes from a game that I was last interested in at its fourth iteration and was followed by truths that they then had to lie about, or lies that they then had to backpedal on.

All in all, I'm not angry about the MS reveal, just disappointed that after 8 years of throwing thousands at MS I'm moving back to Sony. I know some will say that I've made my mind up prematurely, but have seen that as a gamer I'm a low priority to MS, as I have been over the last couple of years, and expect them to treat me as such. The supposed 15 exclusives that are coming over the next 12 months (and I'm guessing that at least a few are Kinect titles) would have to be eyeball-meltingly good to change my mind.

And that people-watching-and-counting patent scares the fuck out of me.

#118 Posted by selfconfessedcynic (2591 posts) -

@fustacluck said:

Wow, seems a lot of people saw a different Sony meeting than I did.

I saw demonstrations of PS4 games being demonstrated in realtime, both on PS4 and PS Vita by way of remote play. I saw a demonstration and an explanation of the share button. I saw tech demos. I saw an explanation of the many ways that GaiKai would be used on the system. I saw a trickle of some system specs that actually make sense to customers (not just the likes of "15 billion transistors" and "rocket science stuff" that mean nothing). That's all off the top of my head.

I saw none of this in the Microsoft reveal, only seeing demonstrations of the TV functionality that I can't have (at the time of the meeting Microsoft hadn't even approached the main content provider in my country, Sky, as they reported in the following days), using the Kinect system that I don't want, and apps that Microsoft don't make available to me. It ended with video of cut scenes from a game that I was last interested in at its fourth iteration and was followed by truths that they then had to lie about, or lies that they then had to backpedal on.

I just wanted to chime in and say I agree - not sure what's happening with some of the other posters here, but I saw what you saw.

Not that I expect Gaikai to work in any way (especially here in Australia) or for Sony to not have considered a similar DRM strategy as Microsoft - but in both cases, I don't believe the opposite either. I'm not going to say GaiKai will never work here, nor am I going to pre-damn Sony for something Microsoft is doing but Sony has given little indication of.

E3 is going to be a huge deciding factor - but so far, the messaging of both companies has been plainly obvious and hugely divergent. In terms of that, I like what Sony has done, and hate what MS has done.

#119 Edited by Humanity (10123 posts) -

@fustacluck: It's not seeing something differently but interpreting it in your own way. I haven't rewatched the Sony conference since it aired a few months ago but the only game demo I remember was of that PS4 exclusive about the robot thing and I don't recall that being a live onstage demo. What I got out of the Microsoft conference was as follows: what the system will look like, what the new dashboard looks like and how it functions, new dashboard multi tasking functionality, the new Kinect and the many ways they've (hopefully) improved it, and a brief glimpse at the DVR function which will apparently let you record all gameplay. Some of those things might have not interested you but they were there. The same way you did not care for Call of Duty, I could not care less about that PS4 exclusive about the ogre/robot or the new inFamous game. I'm not saying those are bad games, or that the conference was worse - in fact I agree it was better than Microsofts - I just think different people are looking for different things.

#120 Posted by Enigma_2099 (149 posts) -

... there isn't enough popcorn in the world for me right now.

#121 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

Seeing how Microsoft lost me to Sony midway through the current generation, and hasn't - as opposed to Sony - made any visible efforts to win me back, all the Xbox One reveal did, is to dock even more points off its total score on my personal scoresheet.

Playstation 4 is so far ahead purchase priority wise, I can' fathom the game that would make me change my mind at this point. Ontop of that, if it's really true that the Xbox One is the less capable box in regards to running games (all signs point to it), it'd be akin to devine intervention if Microsoft actually came up with the winning bid after all is said and done.

#122 Posted by ManMadeGod (1585 posts) -

I find this entire negative reaction as a great example of how truly immature and irrational most of the vocal portion of the internet. The machines and the games aren't coming out for another 6 months and everyone is passing insane judgments about something they know almost nothing about simply because they didn't see the games that are going to be shown in about two weeks.

Microsoft has some interesting and ambitious ideas about what they can do with the new console, and I think it would actually be pretty sweet if they delivered on all the stuff they promised. Even if all the kinect, TV, and multitasking stuff doesn't work it has almost no effect on the games. The games are going to be made whether its for the Sony console, Microsoft console, Nintendo console, or the PC. Why not just sit back and see what happens. There's no need to freak out about something you know very little about. It's interesting, and even if it isn't exactly what you want, who cares. Stop crying about it and just wait to see what happens.

Maybe the Xbox One will be the worst travesty ever to happen to the gaming industry, but maybe it will be this awesome console that delivers on most of what it tried to promise. The fact is no one truly knows. So why spend so much time bitching, worrying, and freaking out. Just calm down, and play the good games where they fall.

Great post. This whole week has put me off from giantbomb and other gaming communities because they are filled with so many immature children. This whole "that's it, buying a ps4" thing is a joke. We know next to nothing about the system(s). People must have amazing lives in order to have the time/desire to bitch about this stuff.

#123 Posted by TechnoSyndrome (961 posts) -

It's completely reasonable to be upset with the Xbone reveal. By focusing on live TV and other shit nobody under the age of forty cares about, and saying they'll focus on games at a later event, they're effectively sending a message that video games and the people who care about them come second. This behavior falls directly in line with Microsoft's behavior over the last few years where they had jack shit in terms of exclusive games, letting Sony make all kinds of deals with companies to get exclusive content and instead focusing on things like a fucking pizza app.

This isn't people upset with the first time Microsoft has screwed up, this is people who were already fed up with Microsoft and were hoping for them to make some changes with this new system, only for Microsoft to not change at all.

#124 Posted by Voysa_Reezun (96 posts) -

I think the only thing more tiresome than bitching on the internet is bitching about bitching on the internet.

That is especially true when the complainant, in lieu of an actual reasoned argument, throws out the "immature," "irrational," "typical whiny internet poster" ad hominems as if that proved their nebulous point about displeasure on the internet being almost surely the domain of ignorant man-children that know not of which they speak.

#125 Posted by MarkJW (117 posts) -

@doctorwelch said:

I find this entire negative reaction as a great example of how truly immature and irrational most of the vocal portion of the internet. The machines and the games aren't coming out for another 6 months and everyone is passing insane judgments about something they know almost nothing about simply because they didn't see the games that are going to be shown in about two weeks.

Microsoft has some interesting and ambitious ideas about what they can do with the new console, and I think it would actually be pretty sweet if they delivered on all the stuff they promised. Even if all the kinect, TV, and multitasking stuff doesn't work it has almost no effect on the games. The games are going to be made whether its for the Sony console, Microsoft console, Nintendo console, or the PC. Why not just sit back and see what happens. There's no need to freak out about something you know very little about. It's interesting, and even if it isn't exactly what you want, who cares. Stop crying about it and just wait to see what happens.

Maybe the Xbox One will be the worst travesty ever to happen to the gaming industry, but maybe it will be this awesome console that delivers on most of what it tried to promise. The fact is no one truly knows. So why spend so much time bitching, worrying, and freaking out. Just calm down, and play the good games where they fall.

Great post. This whole week has put me off from giantbomb and other gaming communities because they are filled with so many immature children. This whole "that's it, buying a ps4" thing is a joke. We know next to nothing about the system(s). People must have amazing lives in order to have the time/desire to bitch about this stuff.

I also find this to be a good post. Too bad NeoGAF, Reddit and /v/ don't care about rationality.

#126 Posted by Osaladin (2543 posts) -

I think the only thing more tiresome than bitching on the internet is bitching about bitching on the internet.

That is especially true when the complainant, in lieu of an actual reasoned argument, throws out the "immature," "irrational," "typical whiny internet poster" ad hominems as if that proved their nebulous point about displeasure on the internet being almost surely the domain of ignorant man-children that know not of which they speak.

But now you're bitching about the people bitching about the people bitching on the internet.

Also, I agree with you.

#128 Edited by DonPixel (2628 posts) -

Lovely write up, hey guys we should be more comprehensive with MS they definitely not a greedy company, they just want us to have fun with their amazing products. They just don't know how to let us know that.

don't be meanies.

Online
#129 Edited by Voysa_Reezun (96 posts) -

@osaladin: Yeah, but bitching about bitching about bitching on the internet is still fresh enough not to be that annoying. Well, yet.

#131 Edited by President_Barackbar (3474 posts) -

@doctorwelch said:

I find this entire negative reaction as a great example of how truly immature and irrational most of the vocal portion of the internet. The machines and the games aren't coming out for another 6 months and everyone is passing insane judgments about something they know almost nothing about simply because they didn't see the games that are going to be shown in about two weeks.

Microsoft has some interesting and ambitious ideas about what they can do with the new console, and I think it would actually be pretty sweet if they delivered on all the stuff they promised. Even if all the kinect, TV, and multitasking stuff doesn't work it has almost no effect on the games. The games are going to be made whether its for the Sony console, Microsoft console, Nintendo console, or the PC. Why not just sit back and see what happens. There's no need to freak out about something you know very little about. It's interesting, and even if it isn't exactly what you want, who cares. Stop crying about it and just wait to see what happens.

Maybe the Xbox One will be the worst travesty ever to happen to the gaming industry, but maybe it will be this awesome console that delivers on most of what it tried to promise. The fact is no one truly knows. So why spend so much time bitching, worrying, and freaking out. Just calm down, and play the good games where they fall.

Great post. This whole week has put me off from giantbomb and other gaming communities because they are filled with so many immature children. This whole "that's it, buying a ps4" thing is a joke. We know next to nothing about the system(s). People must have amazing lives in order to have the time/desire to bitch about this stuff.

People who play games are under no obligation to wait to pass judgment on the Xbox. We aren't journalists. If I want this reveal to color my impression of the Xbox One so much that I don't buy one, that's my prerogative. Frankly, I don't give a damn what people think about the negative reaction. As a consumer, its not my job to be objective. If Microsoft has lost a lot of people as a result of this reveal, well, tough luck.

#132 Posted by Maffrew (27 posts) -

Am I alone in hoping that Rare's Xbox One game is a Kameo sequel?

I got the 360 at launch and while it wasn't amazing, I remember really enjoying Kameo and I'd love to see what Rare could do with it now.

#133 Edited by porjos (168 posts) -

@osaladin said:

@voysa_reezun said:

I think the only thing more tiresome than bitching on the internet is bitching about bitching on the internet.

That is especially true when the complainant, in lieu of an actual reasoned argument, throws out the "immature," "irrational," "typical whiny internet poster" ad hominems as if that proved their nebulous point about displeasure on the internet being almost surely the domain of ignorant man-children that know not of which they speak.

But now you're bitching about the people bitching about the people bitching on the internet.

Also, I agree with you.

This is why commenting on the internet rarely does anything...the only real vote is making an informed decision with your wallet :D

Critical thinking + numerous facts closest to the original sources + what I want as a consumer = what I will be buying

#134 Edited by drakesfortune (301 posts) -

If Xbox One doesn't allow used games and PS4 does, I just don't see a scenario where Xbox One is successful. I'm not sure I'd buy one, and I buy 80% of my games new, and the 20% I buy used I generally don't even end up playing.

I think small mid and large developers alike will be shocked at how destroying the used market affects their sales. I'm confident it will drastically reduce the number of people willing to ay full price for a game. I know I won't, and I never sell my games anyway.

If ps4 allows used games and Xone doesn't, I would fully expect GameStop to not carry the Xone or Xone games. If I owned GameStop that's what I'd do. If I were Sony, I would make Microsoft swallow tat bitter pill and own this generation. They would stand out as the likely most powerful platform, and by far the only consumer friendly platform. There is NO way Sony loses if they don't make that grand error and Microsoft does.

#135 Posted by sopranosfan (1935 posts) -

@fustacluck: yes it does. Under this system you can basically only sell games to GameStop and maybe Amazon. Do you think Mom and Pop shops will go through all these hoops for the few bucks a month they get selling used games.

#136 Posted by goatsoap (57 posts) -

i am beginning to think that i am the only one who wasn't pissed and expected a console reveal to be mostly about the console and its new features. i felt even more-so this way after looking back at how sony just trotted out sequels and already-announced multiplatform games the entire ps4 reveal without actually revealing much of the ps4.... after all of the shit, it was only a reveal, and i assume lingering questions will be answered in time and games being announced at e3

#137 Posted by neoepoch (1295 posts) -

@fiberpay said:

@giganteus: It's almost as if they have to print two articles saying the same thing because they know they can get some clicks. Glad I use adblock so they get less money with these click bait articles.

It's almost as if you actually didn't read the articles.

#138 Posted by Spiritof (2096 posts) -

I'm just god damned happy my SNES and Genesis still work.

#139 Posted by Max_Cherry (1151 posts) -

I wouldn't call it a "savvy play", instead I would call it an obvious direction, however do we want all consoles to turn into the Wii? I don't. They need to find a more creative solution.

#140 Posted by DoctorWelch (2765 posts) -

@president_barackbar: The only problem with that argument is that getting all worked up illogically only hurts you. Passion is great. I would definitely say I love video games, and I always have, but that doesn't mean I have to act like a toddler kicking and screaming because I don't get exactly what I want the way I want it.

I have no preference for any console or company that makes consoles. What I do have a preference for is good games, and I play those games wherever they may be. We know so little about the future of this generation that theres no reason to get so worked up about it. Yes, we can be skeptical or excited, but both of those feelings can be taken to an unhealthy extreme. No one is forcing an Xbox One down anyones throat. As I said before, it could be trash or it could be great. We really have no idea what's going to happen. So yes, if these decisions end up being horrible, then we can criticize them for those decisions and choose not to buy the console. On the other hand, maybe the Xbox One will be awesome and we can all have a great time playing the newest games.

You say we aren't journalists, yet everyone wants to give their criticism and insite like they in fact are a journalist. Then they use the logic that because they aren't actually journalists none of their opinions or predictions have to make sense. Well, you're right...that argument about arguments doesn't make very much sense. Maybe it's good all of us aren't journalists or critics, even though we all act like we are one.

#141 Edited by President_Barackbar (3474 posts) -

@doctorwelch: I can only speak for myself, but you seem to be taking the extreme parts of the internet as representative of the whole, which isn't the case. To the point that we aren't journalists, you don't have to be one to have an opinion. I'm just saying that the people who expect everyone to be impartial and objective until they get all the facts don't understand that consumers are allowed to make whatever snap judgments they want since we are not expected to be objective.

#142 Posted by Wilshere (343 posts) -

Every single day

And every word you say

Every game you play, every night you stay

One'll be watching you

#144 Posted by Mikewarrior (77 posts) -

I have compiled a huge amount of information that I break down, and show how poorly Microsoft is handling things, their decisions, and lack of care for their fans.

However, I'm new here and I don't know how many posts it takes to be allowed to make a thread. I do know I can only post 5 times per day.

#145 Edited by graf1k (439 posts) -

As others have theorized recently, based on Microsoft's vacillation on the used game issue and Sony's very intentional vagueness on the subject thus far, to EA "magnanimously" doing away online passes all of a sudden, a picture begins to form of publishers trying to force some answer to the "problem" of used games on both Sony and Microsoft. Maybe it was a simple as "float the idea, see how people react", or maybe an ultimatum was made, but based on the edges we can see, that is the image that is beginning to form, at least to me.

That said, great write up, Alex. I'm glad not everyone has gone completely Chicken Little after the Microsoft unveiling. Granted, I'm about as disappointed as anybody, I kind of see where Microsoft is coming from, business wise. You only get one first introduction for something like this and Microsoft had to choose to either play to the base, or take a swing at the general public and hope they can regain any lost traction with gamers at E3. Only time will tell if they can still pull that off, but again from a business perspective, it probably was the right move (or at the very least, easiest). Last generation, Nintendo proved that a novel, somewhat innovative idea can exponentially increase your market share and went from last to first in the home console market. Unfortunately for Sony and Microsoft, who, let's not forget, are both still hedging their bets with motion technology, although Sony less prolifically, most of the people who bought Wiis 7 years ago have largely moved on to mobile and tablet gaming. It was probably at this point that Microsoft resurrected their original plan for the Xbox as a Trojan Horse into living room dominance, only to come to the table this time with what seems to be a relatively half-baked strategy (IR blaster to interface with cable boxes is hardly an elegant or original solution; no native DVR functionality; Xbox One still an "additional" box under the TV, rather than a replacement to the cable box, ect.).

Again, I don't think this all adds up to Microsoft being dead in the water quite yet, but they certainly have an uphill climb on their hands. Not to mention, the quite possibly massive gulf in power between the Xbox One and PS4. It's funny, a lot of people have been focusing on the difference of 8GB of DDR3 in the Xbox One vs. the 8GB of GDDR5 in the PS4, not to mention a couple chortles about how the Xbox One will reserve 3GB for OS (maybe amounts will differ, but do you think the PS4 OS will not hit it's RAM at all?!), but with the eSRAM, Microsoft may have all but nullified the PS4's advantage there. Unfortunately for them, they have possibly crippled their GPU performance significantly to accomodate the eSRAM and those data engines. This once again, raises the age old console-gaming issue of graphical power and whether it's better to be the graphical leader or the lowest common denominator. Going on the past three console generations, it would seem that more horse power does not inherently lead to market dominance (if anything, the inverse may be true). Whether that's to do with graphical dominance in the console market being akin to being the "first loser" as PC will always be the pinnacle, or if one of any number of factors in past generations is the superior indicator of who'll be dominant (3rd party support, being first to market, having better exclusives, ect.), who can say?

#146 Posted by Derelictive (8 posts) -

So I get that XBone is an entertainment system that can play games when it is called upon to do so but the "ONE thing you need" actually needs other external "things" to get the experience you are supposed to get.

You get the TV experience you want but only if you are in the US and have the proper cable box. You have to have a fairly substantial and reliable internet connection at all time. The Kinect has to be connected to work so you need to set things up to make sure it can fit and the xbone itself will still have a power brick and most likely can only be laid out horizontally (another shuffle to make room ... maybe ). Since all games will be installed on the machine along with any other movies/music/apps/whatever you will probably need to attach an external hard drive after a while needing a bit more space of course a long usb cable will help there.

So even though it is made for a mainstream audience and not gamers there are some limitations placed upon it by relying on some things that aren't mainstream just yet.

#147 Edited by N2NOther (83 posts) -

I find this entire negative reaction as a great example of how truly immature and irrational most of the vocal portion of the internet is. The machines and the games aren't coming out for another 6 months and everyone is passing insane judgments about something they know almost nothing about simply because they didn't see the games that are going to be shown in about two weeks.

Microsoft has some interesting and ambitious ideas about what they can do with the new console, and I think it would actually be pretty sweet if they delivered on all the stuff they promised. Even if all the kinect, TV, and multitasking stuff doesn't work it has almost no effect on the games. The games are going to be made whether its for the Sony console, Microsoft console, Nintendo console, or the PC. Why not just sit back and see what happens. There's no need to freak out about something you know very little about. It's interesting, and even if it isn't exactly what you want, who cares. Stop crying about it and just wait to see what happens.

Maybe the Xbox One will be the worst travesty ever to happen to the gaming industry, but maybe it will be this awesome console that delivers on most of what it tried to promise. The fact is no one truly knows. So why spend so much time bitching, worrying, and freaking out. Just calm down, and play the good games where they fall.

The entire purpose of the interviews done post reveal were to shed more light on the console, generate buzz, and get people talking about Xbox One. The information they have is what is causing gamers to "freak out" and "bitch on the internet". I am a rational person, I have always been a multi-console owner, and I spend most of my gaming time with my 360. That being said, I think everything MS has done in the past week is beyond absurd.

Sure Sony hasn't been THAT up front about their used game stance beyond saying it would be up to the publisher. But they also didn't have executives saying "There will be a fee", then having a rep on Twitter saying, "there is no fee," etc. Of course in a ideal situation we would all just sit tight and wait for more information, but the messaging we have received has, in fact, been wholly negative to a LARGE portion of people.

Like Alex points out in his piece, it's not like they couldn't have known about the used game issue. This rumor was leaked MONTHS ago and people have been vocal about it. But as a rumor, then it's very easy to be rational and say "OK, well that's just a rumor" and reserve judgment. But guess what, judgment time has begun because these things are no longer rumors. They have been said, OUT LOUD by people like Phil Harrison, a friggin' VICE PRESIDENT at Microsoft. Rationale and logic would dictate that he, of all people, know what is going on. So by that token, why shouldn't people be upset about the things he is saying when they are clearly upsetting to the people that are upset by it? Then coupled with the PR nonsense like "Reports have been inaccurate and incomplete" and then being told that that's all we have until someone makes them accurate and complete at a later date.

I appreciate your stance of "wait and see" but these "immature" folks you talk about? Some of them are quite smart and can see through PR bs and say to themselves "well that can't be good. Why one earth would they not clear this up now so we can all move on or make a final decision?" For me the answer is that MS wasn't expecting the "immature" and "irrational" "internet bitching" and have decided to look at their upcoming strategy again and figure out what to do before E3. You don't issue a comment if it's irrational. You issue a comment when it's an actual, valid complaint.

And I can tell you, as someone who will be attending E3 as press, that it has tainted by perception going into E3. See, though I am press, for now I don't get paid for it. I have a full-time job, not affiliated with the video game industry, and as such I have to pay money for everything I get. I make my purchasing decisions based on what I know about a product and right now, what I know about the Xbox One isn't good at all. That's subjective and objective. Nothing they showed or have talked about after the show has appealed to me as a gamer, as an aspiring journalist and ultimately a consumer.

#148 Edited by Derelictive (8 posts) -

@graf1k said:

It's funny, a lot of people have been focusing on the difference of 8GB of DDR3 in the Xbox One vs. the 8GB of GDDR5 in the PS4, not to mention a couple chortles about how the Xbox One will reserve 3GB for OS (maybe amounts will differ, but do you think the PS4 OS will not hit it's RAM at all?!), but with the eSRAM, Microsoft may have all but nullified the PS4's advantage there. Unfortunately for them, they have possibly crippled their GPU performance significantly to accomodate the eSRAM and those data engines. This once again, raises the age old console-gaming issue of graphical power and whether it's better to be the graphical leader or the lowest common denominator. Going on the past three console generations, it would seem that more horse power does not inherently lead to market dominance (if anything, the inverse may be true).

It's funny but the 360 was laid out more like the ps4 is. A "large" chunk of unified gddr memory ( gddr3 for the 360).

Well I guess it depends on how the eSRAM memory is used to know if it and the move engines can offset the bandwidth advantage. As for the lack of gpu hardware and it's affect we just won't know until the games are out but MS had no choice, either use fast but high latency memory or slower memory with a big cache and some burly DMA chips to help keep things moving. Still the xbone is more of a general purpose entertainment system than a gaming system so their choice for a system that mirrors a generalized PC seems reasonable for it's purpose.

The most that the ps4 will give up in RAM would likely be 2 but less could also be expected. The original specs was for 4 gb of GDDR5 RAM and it reserved 1/2 a gig for the OS.

As to the "better performance" being a hindrance rather than a helpful I don't think past experience is going to be that helpful. The PS3 was created at the height of Sony arrogance and so they expected slavish devotion from devs and created a system that was flexible and powerful but not easy to write code for ( the PS2 wasn't all that easy either but man they pushed the hardware ). 3rd party cross platform developers surely flocked to the already launched 360 and used it's easier development tools as a target and later ported to PS3 as time and budgets permitted.

Now we are looking at a situation where the PS4 is arguably the more "mainstream" design since it is basically laid out like a PC graphics card with a multicore cpu attached to it and it has quite good development tools. It wouldn't shock me if the PC/PS4 was the target and then ported to the Xbone, assuming the XBone isn't flying off the shelves at the expense of the PS4.

#149 Posted by LarsHJ (42 posts) -

the company had been quite up-front about the fact that this conference was for a broader, mainstream audience

I am not sure those news had reached much beyond the press itself. I certainly had not heard the statement untill after the fact where it was used as a defense for the lack of games.

#150 Posted by Pop (2651 posts) -

Do we even know what the Sony's stance is on used games?

From what I saw in the Microsoft conference all those games are still in early development, are they going to have time to get some good demos to show at E3?

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