X1 likely faster in procedural generation and raytracing vps

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#1 Edited by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

In the same article that Edge talks about the PS4's power advantages over the X1, they also had a quote from a developer that to me is quite interesting and didn't get the attention it deserves.

Xbox One does, however, boast superior performance to PS4 in other ways. “Let’s say you are using procedural generation or raytracing via parametric surfaces – that is, using a lot of memory writes and not much texturing or ALU – Xbox One will be likely be faster,” said one developer.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/pow...erences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/

I wrote a post previously on here about MS's DirectX 11.2 presentation on partially resident resources and how the eSRAM and data move engines may play a role. I want to say that I do not proclaim to be an expert on this subject, but rather this is just from my own personal research and understanding. You be the judge. Having said that, this caught my interest, because this is actually the first time I have heard a developer allegedly mentioning something that could point towards this connection I along with a few others were speculating.

I've also wondered about whether or not the eSRAM could provide the X1 GPU with an additional benefits when it comes to GPGPU, and if it could perhaps act in a similar fashion to how an L2 or L3 cache acts for a CPU.

Now here we have a quote that specifically mentions procedural generation and ray tracing via parametric surfaces as likely being faster on the X1. The question is what are they and why?

Procedural generation.

First, what are they? Now I'm not exactly sure if they're talking about procedural generation in general, referring to both mesh such as tessellation, as well as textures, or procedural textures only. In either case, one thing that is for certain is that anytime you are talking about procedural generation, you're talking about an algorithm and computational power to solve that algorithm.

The difference between applying a traditional image texture on an object and a texture created using a procedural algorithm, as far as hardware is concerned, is that of storage and bandwidth vs computational power and bandwidth/latency.

-An image texture will take up more memory. Your texture is typically stored in ram in its native resolution. It will also require a certain amount of bandwidth, significantly more compared to a procedural texture, to make its way to the GPU. Obviously since the PS4 is equipped with GDDR5 and more bandwidth, it's better suited towards storing and moving around more or higher resolution textures.

-A procedural texture is stored in memory as an algorithm, a mathematical equation or formula. It takes very little memory storage, and very little bandwidth. It's just a math formula waiting to be calculated. But it does require that it gets processed, and calculated in real time, in order to turn it into what looks like an image texture at some point before it can be displayed in a frame of animation. So it requires less memory, less bandwidth, but more computational power.

Similar principles apply to procedural generation of mesh, tessellation or adaptive loading on demand though that has more to do with displaying a high polygon object up close and a simpler object further away, while handling the phases in-between, dynamically, using an algorithm. Now it's curious that despite the PS4 GPU is known to have more compute units, we have a developer mentioning that these techniques will likely run faster on the Xbox One.

Why?

The reason for that could be perhaps that in order to help with these calculations, some sort of low latency cache may prove useful. One thing I might think of why this would be in the case of the X1 is the advantage it has due to the eSRAM. You do not need a lot of memory to store a procedural algorithm. What you may need is a very fast scratchpad with low latency, that your GPU can quickly go back and forth and access to perform is calculations or pull algorithms. The eSRAM and 32MB is more than sufficient to store a whole bunch of them or to be used as a scratchpad.

Ray-tracing via parametric surfaces.

Of equal interest is that they talk about ray-tracing via parametric surfaces. First let me preface, that it's been awhile since I took Calculus 3, and I couldn't remember the first rule about parametric surfaces, but what I can tell you is that they're talking about curved surfaces. Tessellation is likely based on calculating parametric surfaces.

So simpler models further away, more detailed up close.

Now I couldn't give you a confident layman's explanation of what this developer is referring to as far as "ray tracing via parametric surfaces", because I'm not sure myself, but I highly doubt they're talking about ray-tracing as it's known.

Having said that, I might be able to offer some clues. In digging around for the original starting point for the partial resident texture tech that AMD introduced in their GPUs, I stumbled upon a paper on Cyril Crassin's PhD thesis on GigaVoxels, which is the inspiration behind the tech being used in Unreal Engine 4 as well as being supported in hardware as part of AMD's GPUs.

The first thing that popped to my attention is that the exact limitations they are explaining from seemingly using a software approach are pretty much explaining the limitations Microsoft had on their slides in their DirectX 11.2 presentation. The limitations MS were able to remove by moving partial resident resources to hardware and is a standard feature on the X1.

From the paper:

Disadvantages

There are several cons to the GigaVoxels approach:

  1. Slow octree traversal. The octree is an indirect mechanism for sampling the actual scene information stored in the bricks. When a ray needs to get information from the scene, it must first traverse down the octree. Once it finds the correct node it can sample from the associated brick. This process can be slow and it would be nicer to sample from the voxel data directly.
  2. Non-automatic linear interpolation between mip-map levels. Since all bricks of different LODs are stored in the same memory pool, we are not taking advantage of mip-maps. Therefore we can not make use of hardware quadrilinear interpolation.
  3. Reduntant memory use. Each brick must contain information about neighboring voxels, which takes up a lot of memory. For example, the number of voxels inside an 8*8*8 brick is 512 and 169 of these are redundant neighbor voxels. This is a 33% increase in memory.
  4. The filtering process is encumbered by determining which neighbors are shared among the bricks.

From MS's DirectX 11.2 presentation:

Software:

Hardware:

So basically supporting partially resident texture in hardware will remove those limitations that the software approach had and held developers back.

What was more intriguing for me in that paper, however, that I did not mention at that time, is that he and later Nvidia wasn't just using the Gigavoxels approach for texturing, but rather they were initially researching voxel cone ray tracing which can extend beyond the use of textures for lighting and global illumination.

In one sentence, the GigaVoxels technique performs adaptive level-of-detail selection of lighting and material information during the ray-marching of a sparse voxelized scene. It is made up of several stages:

First, the scene is converted from triangles to voxels in a two-step process:

  1. Check if the triangle's plane intersects the voxel.
  2. Rasterize the triangle along its dominant axis (the one that results in the largest projected area) and check if the resulting fragments intersect the 2D projection of the voxel.

Interestingly enough, Microsoft also mentioned shadow maps in their presentation, and made it a point to refer to this as partial resident resources. Which implies usage that extends beyond just partial resident texturing.

I wanted to mention this relationship earlier, but I wanted to wait and see if I have something more to go on before starting up some other crazy speculation or rumor without enough evidence to draw such conclusions. Now we have a developer that specifically mentions this area in regards to the X1's abilities.

There certainly appears to be something to it but more clarification is needed as I cannot deduct with certainty that what this developer is referring to as ray-tracing "via" parametric surfaces has some relationship to cone tracing using gigavoxels which is what Cyril was describing for usage in lighting and global illumination. The choice of words is throwing me off. However with different buzz words being used for very similar techniques depending on what developer you talk to, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they're similar. Perhaps someone else can chime in.

#2 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (4234 posts) -

Yea, that sounds alright.

#3 Posted by DJJoeJoe (1325 posts) -

Thanks for this, I don't have the will power to actually read this 100% right now but I adore deep dives into technology like this especially when it's for things that a majority of the internet gloss over. I still regret not fully reading up on the CELL stuff from the PS3 but I did always keep up on the technique Microsoft used for the 360 and that they seem to be continuing here, which is the stuff with the ed-ram chunk :) Stuff like that (at the time of the 360) read as efficiencies to overcome logical and REAL issues faced with computing bottlenecks instead of conforming to just upping something that would just get you more numbers to show consumers... no one actually cares or knows about this stuff most the time and that's why it's interesting to me cause it means someone had the smarts to do it anyways.

#4 Posted by Nhoj_Sllew (179 posts) -

damn son nice work

you sure you don't work for Microsoft? I mean that in a nice way

also i'm calling the name "ray tracing via parametric surfaces" for my next post rock album

#5 Posted by ThePhantomnaut (6201 posts) -

Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable in these processes but I do enjoy what you provided. Can't wait to see your more analysis reports in the future.

#6 Posted by Warfare (1641 posts) -

“Xbox One is weaker and it’s a pain to use its ESRAM,” concluded one developer.

Damn.

#7 Edited by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

damn son nice work

you sure you don't work for Microsoft? I mean that in a nice way

also i'm calling the name "ray tracing via parametric surfaces" for my next post rock album

It's a good one. It would totally work.

And, I wish. Kind of. Never cared for the huge corporate lifestyle but having an inside look at their research and development program would be pretty amazing though. That place is insanely cool.

#8 Edited by MariachiMacabre (7099 posts) -

I'm sorry but this is just getting weird now.

#9 Posted by Sinusoidal (1657 posts) -

I'm sorry but this is just getting weird now.

Agreed.

All of these "X1 is better than it looks!!!!" threads are getting a bit weird. That and the OP is kind of just making up a whole boatload of technical speculation based on one unidentifiable claim - he even admits he doesn't know what "ray-tracing via parametric surfaces" is - from some unnamed developer in an article that largely suggests that the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the X1.

#10 Posted by MonetaryDread (2074 posts) -

I read an article on developers mentioning concern about the Xbox One's power, in comparison to the PS4, earlier this morning. From what little I understand, the biggest complaint came down to having difficulties with the drivers, not necessarily under powered components. This reminds me of an episode of Rebel FM that I listened to about a year ago. Arthur was talking about rumours he had heard about the, as of then, unannounced hardware and mentioned that he was concerned with Microsofts ability to launch at the same time as Sony. He mentioned that there was a lot of infighting between various groups at Microsoft because everyone wanted to put their name on the success of the console. This infighting was delaying every aspect of the design process, so, hearing about drivers being behind that of Sony's makes a lot of sense now.

I really hope that Microsoft gets their act together.

#11 Edited by Sinusoidal (1657 posts) -

I'm sorry but this is just getting weird now.

Agreed.

All of these "X1 is better than it looks!!!!" threads are getting a bit weird. That and the OP is kind of just making up a whole boatload of technical speculation based on one unidentifiable claim - he even admits he doesn't know what "ray-tracing via parametric surfaces" is - from some unnamed developer in an article that largely suggests that the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the X1.

#12 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

You took all that time to write up an article to just sway people into buying a console. You should work for MS' marketing team.

Or maybe you already are. I'm onto you, viral marketer...

#13 Edited by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@sinusoidal said:

@mariachimacabre said:

I'm sorry but this is just getting weird now.

Agreed.

All of these "X1 is better than it looks!!!!" threads are getting a bit weird. That and the OP is kind of just making up a whole boatload of technical speculation based on one unidentifiable claim - he even admits he doesn't know what "ray-tracing via parametric surfaces" is - from some unnamed developer in an article that largely suggests that the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the X1.

Why? Is it so hard to believe dedicated hardware and different architecture leads to its own benefits in terms of software technology? Pretty common. And it should be expected.

I'm just trying to figure out what they're referring to. The rest of the claims in the article are just as unidentifiable but his explanation is pretty easy to pin point since he's specifically talking about memory writes, which would benefit fast access eSRAM. Not exactly making it up when you can draw logical assumptions.

I know very well what procedural generation is. I also know what parametric surfaces are. I also know very well what ray tracing is. The only question I have is what the developer means by ray tracing via parametric surfaces, because the only thing I could think of is actually ray tracing parametric surfaces. And I simply don't believe either console is capable of that in any meaningful way. So he can't possibly be referring to ray tracing, as we know it. And I stated that much. I didn't make any claims one way or another regarding this. "Via" as I know the word means "by way of", and ray tracing "by way of" parametric surfaces....has no meaning to me. Or the entire internet.

And I can pretty much guarantee you, the editor of that Edge article has no freaking clue what he's referring to either, and just printing a collection of quotes, while drawing up a loose narrative.

#14 Edited by Sergio (2160 posts) -

@sinusoidal: Eh... he questions anything that makes the PS4 look better or the Xbox One look worse, but will latch onto anything that may benefit the Xbox One. Selective perception of a fanboy.

#15 Edited by Zaccheus (1797 posts) -

AlexGlass vs. Darji

They will decide the future of console gaming as we know it. Who will win? Who will lose? Come and find out. Only on the Giant Bomb forums.

#16 Edited by Verendus (348 posts) -

And PS4 is likely faster in everything else.

#17 Posted by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@sergio said:

@sinusoidal: Eh... he questions anything that makes the PS4 look better or the Xbox One look worse, but will latch onto anything that may benefit the Xbox One. Selective perception of a fanboy.

As is your selective perception and conclusion of the way I post. If this is over your head, I understand.

#18 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@sergio said:

@sinusoidal: Eh... he questions anything that makes the PS4 look better or the Xbox One look worse, but will latch onto anything that may benefit the Xbox One. Selective perception of a fanboy.

As is your selective perception and conclusion of the way I post. If this is over your head, I understand.

The way you post is pretty clear, actually. You're the textbook definition of an Xbox fanboy. And it is strange how you just happened to noticeably surface after Microsoft completely bombed their Xbox One reveal.

#19 Posted by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@alexglass said:

@sergio said:

@sinusoidal: Eh... he questions anything that makes the PS4 look better or the Xbox One look worse, but will latch onto anything that may benefit the Xbox One. Selective perception of a fanboy.

As is your selective perception and conclusion of the way I post. If this is over your head, I understand.

The way you post is pretty clear, actually. You're the textbook definition of an Xbox fanboy. And it is strange how you just happened to noticeably surface after Microsoft completely bombed their Xbox One reveal.

And what does this have to do with my thread or this discussion exactly? Just personal attacks again?

#20 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@alexglass said:

@sergio said:

@sinusoidal: Eh... he questions anything that makes the PS4 look better or the Xbox One look worse, but will latch onto anything that may benefit the Xbox One. Selective perception of a fanboy.

As is your selective perception and conclusion of the way I post. If this is over your head, I understand.

The way you post is pretty clear, actually. You're the textbook definition of an Xbox fanboy. And it is strange how you just happened to noticeably surface after Microsoft completely bombed their Xbox One reveal.

And what does this have to do with my thread or this discussion exactly? Just personal attacks again?

It means that your posts on nebulous, possibly flat-out-wrong technical information that is highly suspect to begin with are impossible to take seriously. I understand that you're excited for the Xbox One, but you need to chill out and actually do some honest research about the technology you're both speculating on and praising in the same breath.

#21 Edited by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@alexglass said:

@hailinel said:

@alexglass said:

@sergio said:

@sinusoidal: Eh... he questions anything that makes the PS4 look better or the Xbox One look worse, but will latch onto anything that may benefit the Xbox One. Selective perception of a fanboy.

As is your selective perception and conclusion of the way I post. If this is over your head, I understand.

The way you post is pretty clear, actually. You're the textbook definition of an Xbox fanboy. And it is strange how you just happened to noticeably surface after Microsoft completely bombed their Xbox One reveal.

And what does this have to do with my thread or this discussion exactly? Just personal attacks again?

It means that your posts on nebulous, possibly flat-out-wrong technical information that is highly suspect to begin with are impossible to take seriously. I understand that you're excited for the Xbox One, but you need to chill out and actually do some honest research about the technology you're both speculating on and praising in the same breath.

So you're only argument to back up any of your accusations is that "I like the Xbox"?

You're admitting you don't actually have the ability to participate, to actually refute any of the points in an intelligent manner and the only thing you're capable of is pointing out my history or my likes?

What the hell are you adding to this discussion? I did do some HONEST research. That's what this is. Where is yours? Look at what I posted. It's self evident. And look at how you contribute. With shit.

#22 Posted by TheHT (11520 posts) -

Let's say your tracing a parabolic descent through the sphincter, I think in the longhaul an overhaul of the transbobulators would pull a standard fluctuation of terraflops in favor of the PS4, but under the circumstances of circumcised HDMI dual input gold tip connectors I think the X1 coupled with humorous gangly constrictions and of course the jigglypuff cloud-based occipital transfusion flappers could inch out a few more hertz in the clock ticker, eventually.

#23 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@alexglass said:

@hailinel said:

@alexglass said:

@sergio said:

@sinusoidal: Eh... he questions anything that makes the PS4 look better or the Xbox One look worse, but will latch onto anything that may benefit the Xbox One. Selective perception of a fanboy.

As is your selective perception and conclusion of the way I post. If this is over your head, I understand.

The way you post is pretty clear, actually. You're the textbook definition of an Xbox fanboy. And it is strange how you just happened to noticeably surface after Microsoft completely bombed their Xbox One reveal.

And what does this have to do with my thread or this discussion exactly? Just personal attacks again?

It means that your posts on nebulous, possibly flat-out-wrong technical information that is highly suspect to begin with are impossible to take seriously. I understand that you're excited for the Xbox One, but you need to chill out and actually do some honest research about the technology you're both speculating on and praising in the same breath.

So you're only argument to back up any of your accusations is that "I like the Xbox"?

You're admitting you don't actually have the ability to participate, to actually refute any of the points in an intelligent manner and the only thing you're capable of is pointing out my history or my likes?

What the hell are you adding to this discussion? I did do some HONEST research. That's what this is. Where is yours? Look at what I posted. It's self evident. And look at how you contribute. With shit.

Well, I tried.

#24 Posted by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@hailinel said:

Well, I tried.

And that's self evident too. Perhaps you should go do some honest research yourself and you won't have to rely on my posting history to guess whether something is "probably wrong". Or better yet, next time you could just do everyone a favor and keep shallow, personal trolling comments out of these types of threads.

#25 Posted by DarthOrange (3866 posts) -
Online
#26 Posted by AlexGlass (688 posts) -
#27 Posted by DarthOrange (3866 posts) -

Why wouldn't it be? Something wrong with people posting an article or discussion on 2 different websites?

Don't see that in the rules. You know what I do see that's already been broken 3 or 4 times in this thread?

You broke both those rules already.

So you're only argument to back up any of your accusations is that "I like the Xbox"?

You're admitting you don't actually have the ability to participate, to actually refute any of the points in an intelligent manner and the only thing you're capable of is pointing out my history or my likes?

What the hell are you adding to this discussion? I did do some HONEST research. That's what this is. Where is yours? Look at what I posted. It's self evident. And look at how you contribute. With shit.

Online
#28 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7099 posts) -
#29 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Read that article. My take away was: "WTF does procedural generation or raytracing via parametric surfaces even mean?". For me the whole thing boilded down to: "PS4 has a significant lead in processing power over Xbox One, unless you're grasping at straws."

Really though, it's time for these boxes to come out and for games to do the talking.

#30 Posted by AlexGlass (688 posts) -
@alexglass said:

Why wouldn't it be? Something wrong with people posting an article or discussion on 2 different websites?

Don't see that in the rules. You know what I do see that's already been broken 3 or 4 times in this thread?

You broke both those rules already.

@alexglass said:

So you're only argument to back up any of your accusations is that "I like the Xbox"?

You're admitting you don't actually have the ability to participate, to actually refute any of the points in an intelligent manner and the only thing you're capable of is pointing out my history or my likes?

What the hell are you adding to this discussion? I did do some HONEST research. That's what this is. Where is yours? Look at what I posted. It's self evident. And look at how you contribute. With shit.

Perhaps we could get a mod in here to explain to some of the members what that means? Seems to me you and a couple of others need a reminder. You're certainly confused and can't even tell I'm defending myself from such behavior.

#31 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@alexglass: Would you like to explain how anything I've said to you in this thread is a personal attack?

#32 Posted by Sergio (2160 posts) -

@sergio said:

@sinusoidal: Eh... he questions anything that makes the PS4 look better or the Xbox One look worse, but will latch onto anything that may benefit the Xbox One. Selective perception of a fanboy.

As is your selective perception and conclusion of the way I post. If this is over your head, I understand.

Nope. My perception is pretty spot on here. From the same article, you've questioned anything bad that might be said about the Xbox One, but you've taken any shred of a positive in the same article and championed it, because it clearly backs up your previous assumptions. You could have said, "well, this is all rumor and speculation, so I find it all dubious," or "I believe all of these developers' anecdotes, and will not disparage them in any way." Instead, it's not correct that these developers say bad things about the Xbox One, at least not to this degree, but this guy over here speaks truth, because I've read articles online!

#33 Edited by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@alexglass: Would you like to explain how anything I've said to you in this thread is a personal attack?

How about we just let a mod decide? I asked Chaser234 to take a look at this discussion and the way it's unfolding and we'll see what he thinks about it or if this type of behavior is accepted.

#34 Edited by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@sergio said:

@alexglass said:

@sergio said:

@sinusoidal: Eh... he questions anything that makes the PS4 look better or the Xbox One look worse, but will latch onto anything that may benefit the Xbox One. Selective perception of a fanboy.

As is your selective perception and conclusion of the way I post. If this is over your head, I understand.

Nope. My perception is pretty spot on here. From the same article, you've questioned anything bad that might be said about the Xbox One, but you've taken any shred of a positive in the same article and championed it, because it clearly backs up your previous assumptions. You could have said, "well, this is all rumor and speculation, so I find it all dubious," or "I believe all of these developers' anecdotes, and will not disparage them in any way." Instead, it's not correct that these developers say bad things about the Xbox One, at least not to this degree, but this guy over here speaks truth, because I've read articles online!

Your perception might be spot on, as you want it to be, but that doesn't make it reality. That's why it's perception. Did I make the claim anywhere that this developer, and only this developer speaks the truth?

Because I'm pretty sure I'm just explaining what he could be referring to and how it could possible relate to the hardware. Which is also what I did with the other comments. There were some that had a basis in facts we knew of, and others that didn't.

I also contest that I questioned "anything bad". I specifically questioned the conclusion and the phrase being thrown around that the "PS4 is 50% faster overall", which I have always believed it to be misleading(which this developer also confirms) and it's backed up by the actual known hardware specs, but I don't think I have questioned any of the specifics that are easy to verify are true.

You and a couple of others are very quick to throw out blanket statements that all I have done is just argued things in one way and only one way, but simply reading the posts, proves that wrong. Your perception of my posts, however, and the reality of them are two different things. You're generalizing, so it fits in your perception. Like for example, you have in fact conveniently ignored and forgot to mention all the parts I have repeatedly stated are in the PS4's favor, just so you can make your generic blanket statement. Such as for example the PS4 having greater main ram bandwidth and additional compute units. Where that ~50% is actually verifiable by the numbers that have been released to the public.

#35 Posted by stubbleman (306 posts) -

Just for the sake of argument, you've spent an entire article writing about a thing that was only being used as a vague hypothetical example to illustrate a much more simple point. Here's the important part of the quote. "using a lot of memory writes and not much texturing or ALU – Xbox One will be likely be faster.”

All he's saying is that textures and processing are something of a bottleneck on the xbone, and that working around that bottleneck will likely speed up development. Now I'm guessing that development time is what he means will be faster because that makes more sense given what little context there is available in the all of 35 words total you have based this entire investigative report on. So if they go in with the right game plan, they should be able to make an equally pretty video game to the ps4 on the xbone in less time. And the biggest word I had to use to explain all of this is 'hypothetical.'

This is all, of course, speculation on my part, and I can't claim to know anything about this hardware given the fact that I normally wouldn't wipe my ass with that many words in quotation marks, let alone try and base any kind of meaningful understanding of anything off of them.

#36 Edited by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@stubbleman said:

Just for the sake of argument, you've spent an entire article writing about a thing that was only being used as a vague hypothetical example to illustrate a much more simple point. Here's the important part of the quote. "using a lot of memory writes and not much texturing or ALU – Xbox One will be likely be faster.”

All he's saying is that textures and processing are something of a bottleneck on the xbone, and that working around that bottleneck will likely speed up development. Now I'm guessing that development time is what he means will be faster because that makes more sense given what little context there is available in the all of 35 words total you have based this entire investigative report on. So if they go in with the right game plan, they should be able to make an equally pretty video game to the ps4 on the xbone in less time. And the biggest word I had to use to explain all of this is 'hypothetical.'

This is all, of course, speculation on my part, and I can't claim to know anything about this hardware given the fact that I normally wouldn't wipe my ass with that many words in quotation marks, let alone try and base any kind of meaningful understanding of anything off of them.

He says nothing about development. He specifically points out two graphical techniques it does faster, procedural generation and ray tracing via parametric surfaces. Pretty direct. That's what's faster. Not development time.

My investigative report didn't start now. It's actually based on the X1's architecture, data move engines which are seemingly built to accelerate tilable textures, the eSRAM, and MS's DirectX 11.2 presentation. I've already written about this about 2 months ago. This is just something that more specifically confirms there are certain unique advantages to that architecture that allows for certain software techniques to perform better.

Which should be expected.

#37 Posted by Korwin (2890 posts) -

Normally people don't go to such lengths for fanboy posts, Kudos to you for at least putting in the effort to be verbose (even if it is starting to look at little strange/obsessive at this point). :D

#38 Posted by jgf (393 posts) -

Yeah xone may be faster at procedural generation and ray tracing via parametric surfaces. How much? We don't know. Has anybody actually tried it out? At least there's no rumor about it.

Why you take this tiny speculation and build it into a full blown article about the buzzwords it includes is beyond me. And then post this article on several forums, c'mon are you on a mission or so?

#39 Edited by Sinusoidal (1657 posts) -

@alexglass's behavior here reeks of "Online Reputation Management". People hired by companies to post in social media to make their products look good.

He's fighting tooth and nail to defend his argument - paper-thin as it is - that suggests the X1 may be more powerful than the PS4. He's calm, he's (somewhat) rational and he's threatening moderation on people who are calling him out. He's posted the exact same thread on at least two different forums. He stomps on dissenting opinions almost immediately. (I got more notifications from this thread in the last few hours than I have from all of the rest of my posts this week.) In short, he does everything he can to make X1 look good, and to make anyone who disagrees with him seem like an ad-hominem slingin' idiot.

Of course, this also could describe the behavior of a severe fanboy, but usually they're the ad-hominem slingin' idiots.

#41 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@jgf said:

Yeah xone may be faster at procedural generation and ray tracing via parametric surfaces. How much? We don't know. Has anybody actually tried it out? At least there's no rumor about it.

Why you take this tiny speculation and build it into a full blown article about the buzzwords it includes is beyond me. And then post this article on several forums, c'mon are you on a mission or so?

So far no game on Xbox one is using ray tracing. A PS4 game that uses rayy tracing in some parts is Killzone for example.

#42 Posted by joshwent (2291 posts) -

The Wii U has a TOUCHSCREEN!

#43 Edited by Korwin (2890 posts) -

@alexglass's behavior here reeks of "Online Reputation Management". People hired by companies to post in social media to make their products look good.

He's fighting tooth and nail to defend his argument - paper-thin as it is - that suggests the X1 may be more powerful than the PS4. He's calm, he's (somewhat) rational and he's threatening moderation on people who are calling him out. He's posted the exact same thread on at least two different forums. He stomps on dissenting opinions almost immediately. (I got more notifications from this thread in the last few hours than I have from all of the rest of my posts this week.) In short, he does everything he can to make X1 look good, and to make anyone who disagrees with him seem like an ad-hominem slingin' idiot.

Of course, this also could describe the behavior of a severe fanboy, but usually they're the ad-hominem slingin' idiots.

It's more suspect when you consider that the accounts entire post history has been nothing but Xbox One threads with only the occasional side comment.

#44 Posted by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

So I'm confused here. Does it not matter that the Ps4 has better specs than the XBOne? Or is the XBOne superior in a few regards, but the PS4 is technically superior overall? Because there has been a weird divide between whether these specs actually matter and are going to affect the systems (as some suggest), or whether these specs don't actually matter at all (looking back on the PS3 vs. the Xbox360, as well as previous generation console performance comparisons). A lot of people in "PS4 is 50% faster or whatever: topics make long posts about how specs don't matter and how historically having better specs and a more powerful system doesn't actually matter. At the same time, there are a plethora of XBOne posts about how this performance spec has been improved, or this processor does this better than originally stated or whatever.

So does it actually matter? Cause it seems it matters when it benefits "your console" and doesn't matter when it benefits your "opponents console".

#45 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

So I'm confused here. Does it not matter that the Ps4 has better specs than the XBOne? Or is the XBOne superior in a few regards, but the PS4 is technically superior overall? Because there has been a weird divide between whether these specs actually matter and are going to affect the systems (as some suggest), or whether these specs don't actually matter at all (looking back on the PS3 vs. the Xbox360, as well as previous generation console performance comparisons). A lot of people in "PS4 is 50% faster or whatever: topics make long posts about how specs don't matter and how historically having better specs and a more powerful system doesn't actually matter. At the same time, there are a plethora of XBOne posts about how this performance spec has been improved, or this processor does this better than originally stated or whatever.

So does it actually matter? Cause it seems it matters when it benefits "your console" and doesn't matter when it benefits your "opponents console".

The Ps4 is more powerful but the important thing is that it is way easier to push its potential out while you need to trick a little with the one and its special ram., Thats why MP title should be be better overall in terms of performance. As for First party or exclusive games. So far a game like Infamous almost destroys XBOX one games in terms of technique and effects.

#47 Posted by Chaser324 (6650 posts) -

For better or worse, this thread has devolved into "console war" bickering. Locking it down.

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