Does anyone else thing Achievements are dumb?

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ninjadodo

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#1  Edited By ninjadodo

[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.

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microwavedapple

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#2  Edited By microwavedapple

I think they add alot of replay value.

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McDazzle

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#3  Edited By McDazzle

They usually give me a little more incentive to finish the game or keep playing.

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DeathStar

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#4  Edited By DeathStar

I find them a clever way to add more depth to the gaming experience  for most people. though myself, I really dont care about achievements. I'm fine with them and I'm fine without them =)

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Ryan_

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#5  Edited By Ryan_

i think achievements provide replay value to games you would have tossed aside otherwise

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DorianBlack

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#6  Edited By DorianBlack

"I don't own a 360 ..." Stopped taking you seriously there. If you don't have a 360 why are you formulating ill conceived opinions of achievements? And the achievements in Assassin's Creed are not a good representation of the feature as they are not clever or difficult. Achievements, when well thought out, add a lot to the experience and make you think about things you may miss in the game without them. Sadly most are simply "You beat level 1!" type things, but these at least show you progressed in the game.

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Bennyishere

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#7  Edited By Bennyishere

I love achievements. They add replay value and makes me more satisfied and proud of what I have done.

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brukaoru

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#8  Edited By brukaoru

It really just depends on the person. Some people think it adds replay value to their games, gives them incentive to complete a certain task or mission in the game. Others don't care for it, they just want to play the game without caring about points.

I do have to agree with you on the fact that people will play bad games just to get points, to me, that is really ridiculous. The only reason I can justify someone playing a bad game would be if the person wants to review it for themselves. 

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Plasticworld

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#9  Edited By Plasticworld

I love achievements! I totally think they're missing on other consoles!

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c1337us

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#10  Edited By c1337us

I dont think there dumb. It was a master stroke addition on Microsofts behalf to come up with it. Having said that though, I hold no stock in them and I don't buy games for points and I only replay a game if I like it not cause I need points. But I acknowledge the fact that they were a really great idea.

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Dalai

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#11  Edited By Dalai

Achievements as a whole aren't dumb, but there are dumb achievements.

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Carmel_Chewy

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#12  Edited By Carmel_Chewy

Achievements IMO might be one of the best things added to gaming. 

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glasswall52

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#13  Edited By glasswall52

On paper, I think they are kind of dumb. But as a completionist, they drive me to play the game more thoroughly, even to the point of frustration ( the "saint" achievement on "Dead Rising"). But all in all, I think they were a well thought out concept. They still get people to at least rent and sometimes buy games that they would never play normally, but do so just for the achievement points (JEFF GERSTMANN).

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Kaido

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#14  Edited By Kaido

Microsoft could probably spruce things up a bit if they added very minor incentives, such as a few Microsoft Points for every thousand you gain.

Otherwise, I'm very big on achievements, but I'm ashamed to say my point total dwindles at 6,000.

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Shocker

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#15  Edited By Shocker

They add to the game, but i never try to get all of them.

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Subway

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#16  Edited By Subway

Achievements for me are the greatest thing this generation of gaming, they really made games a lot more enjoyable for me.

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Tanuki

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#17  Edited By Tanuki

Hm.  I think the idea is okay, but it's implementation is not so great.  More or less because of "dumb" achievements.  I think Trophies are a little better since you're supposed to be able to display them in a trophy room in Home.  Regardless I think the problem with achievements is that people play the game to get achievements instead of having fun.  Sort of like how some people play WoW non-stop to have epic gear that will just get replaced with something better almost immediately.


But Achievements like the 7-Day Survivor in Dead Rising are just stupid.  (since you can't save in that mode)  So basically you'd have to play for 14 hours straight, or pause your game and leave your Xbox on all night to continue your progress the next day.  Or the challenges in Brawl (not achievements but same idea)  Many of those are just annoying and the opposite of fun.

I personally think Achievements suck the fun out of games instead of adding it.  You should play a game to have fun, not to put yourself through hell and try and get another 20 points added to your gamer score.
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Red

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#18  Edited By Red

I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason. I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.
Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.

I mean, I understand how Jeff and Kevin can have so many because they review games and they get Achievements along the way but how can everyone seem to have 10,000 AP?

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#19  Edited By Mo0
Red said:
"I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason.

I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.

Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.
Have you actually looked at a list of achievements before?  A sizable portion of achivements have nothing to do with grinding.  They either reward a feat of exceptional skill or provide you with incentive to finish, say, an entire RPG from start to finish.

If you're wondering how someone can have over 10,000 points, you're looking at the wrong games.  There are multiple games out there that are incredibly easy 1000 points, and simply by getting a large selection of 360 games (which, since it's been out for 3 years, isn't the "Wow dude you have no life spend money on something else" type of moneyspending that you might think) and playing them halfway, you have 10,000 points.

So, I'm confused by the third point.  You think that getting 20 GAZILLION achievement points is pointless, but getting trophies and trying to get to level 20 GAZILLION isn't pointless?  And while we're on the subject of your inability to see the similarities between the PS3 and 360's systems, are you implying that there are no trophies that require a "grind" for PS3 games?

Achievements are a great way to add incentive to features of a game that would otherwise get used very little, or promote ways of playing the game that people wouldn't think of.  The perennial example is the first Geometry Wars: How many people would've played the game without firing their gun if there wasn't an achievement to give them the incentive to do it?
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Subway

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#20  Edited By Subway
Red said:
"I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason. I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.
Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.

I mean, I understand how Jeff and Kevin can have so many because they review games and they get Achievements along the way but how can everyone seem to have 10,000 AP?
"
They don't get a lot of their achievements when reviewing games, since at gamespot, I know jeff normally had to use a gamespot profile when reviewing games. Oh and I have nearly 30, 000 gamerscore, and hardly ever bother with "grinding" I prefer the achievements that are more skill based.
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Cube

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#21  Edited By Cube

They're pretty dumb, yeah.

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twenty0ne

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#22  Edited By twenty0ne

Nope, they add major replayability to a game.

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#23  Edited By deerpoob

there kinda stupid, but at the same time usefull for developers to add alot of time to there game by thinking up little more than a sentence to put into the game, oh and tf2s are awesome, you acually get something from them (weapons.)

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#24  Edited By TheGTAvaccine

I used to be a big achievement monger, but now that I'm not, they do seem useless. But that's not to say that they're dumb, they do add some replay which is nice.

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#25  Edited By Ryan_
Red said:
"I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason. I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.
Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.

I mean, I understand how Jeff and Kevin can have so many because they review games and they get Achievements along the way but how can everyone seem to have 10,000 AP?
"
you just sound like a big Sony fanboy, trophies and achievements points are the same thing, you can't use either of them for anything important so why are trophies better?
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ninjadodo

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#26  Edited By ninjadodo
KairuDeLarge said:
"I don't own a 360 ..." Stopped taking you seriously there.

Yes, I see now how my argument is completely invalidated by Achievements on Steam and Assassin being exactly the same thing.

You say Assassin is a bad example, but it's an example all the same... and what about The Orange Box?

I suspect whether you like Achievements mostly comes down to what you like in a game. If you're the kind of person that wants to defeat the computer or humble other players you'll probably get a great deal of mileage out of it... If you're the kind of person that likes to be immersed in a world, not so much.
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keyhunter

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#27  Edited By keyhunter

STEAM achievements aren't important. The only important achievements are LIVE achievements. Meaning 360 and windows live. They're the only reason I still play videogames.

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xruntime

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#28  Edited By xruntime
keyhunter said:
"STEAM achievements aren't important. The only important achievements are LIVE achievements. Meaning 360 and windows live. They're the only reason I still play videogames.
"
I think that's sad, no offense. This is kind of the reason why I don't like MMO games - I play video games to have fun, enjoy myself, not to accumulate points on a computer screen.

As a PC player, I have not encountered *that* many games with them, but when I do, I usually don't *try* for them. If I get them when I'm playing through, nice, I get a check mark in the menu.

So, therefore, I think achievements are useless. Why should I replay some section on Ultra Hard difficulty just so I can get a couple points? I played some sections of Call of Duty 4 *many* times, and this wasn't because of acheivements, it was because I loved the game, it was a good game - a well-designed game will motivate the player to replay it, irregardless of these achievements.

And, as that "PS3 fanboy" (if that's your code word for intellectual) said, it's just like MMO grinding. You're just doing random tasks repetitively to accumulate some more points. What's the point in that? That said, in MMOs there is no point either, yet many people (myself included) get addicted. So I can see why so many Xbox 360 ppl (to show off on their gamercards) like them.

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Red

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#29  Edited By Red
Mo0 said:
"Red said:
"I don't like Achievements. I don't like Achievements because they're basically just a gigantic road of grinding for no reason.

I'm wondering how on earth someone can have over 10,000 achievement points.

Trophies I think are a little more fun because they aren't in every game and not everybody has trophies, plus they give you expierience which boosts you up levels which isn't as pointless as 20 GAZILLION achievement points.
Have you actually looked at a list of achievements before?  A sizable portion of achivements have nothing to do with grinding.  They either reward a feat of exceptional skill or provide you with incentive to finish, say, an entire RPG from start to finish.

If you're wondering how someone can have over 10,000 points, you're looking at the wrong games.  There are multiple games out there that are incredibly easy 1000 points, and simply by getting a large selection of 360 games (which, since it's been out for 3 years, isn't the "Wow dude you have no life spend money on something else" type of moneyspending that you might think) and playing them halfway, you have 10,000 points.

So, I'm confused by the third point.  You think that getting 20 GAZILLION achievement points is pointless, but getting trophies and trying to get to level 20 GAZILLION isn't pointless?  And while we're on the subject of your inability to see the similarities between the PS3 and 360's systems, are you implying that there are no trophies that require a "grind" for PS3 games?

Achievements are a great way to add incentive to features of a game that would otherwise get used very little, or promote ways of playing the game that people wouldn't think of.  The perennial example is the first Geometry Wars: How many people would've played the game without firing their gun if there wasn't an achievement to give them the incentive to do it?
"
I have a 360 and from the games I've played getting achievements is just too troublesome for too little. Really as you basically said for achievements it's whoever has the most games but because of the Platinum Trophies and such you get more points for mastering a game where with achievements it's just playing the game.
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Hitchenson

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#30  Edited By Hitchenson

I never play bad game's for achievment's - But they add great playability to game's, and give you an incentive to replay game's you normally wouldn't.

20,642 Gamerscore and counting :)

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DualReaver

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#31  Edited By DualReaver
ninjadodo said:
"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"
You know you can make it so it doesn't alert you, right?
Honestly I don't think there is any real reason to hate achievements you're just a whiny asshole.

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xruntime

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#32  Edited By xruntime
DualReaver said:
"ninjadodo said:
"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"
You know you can make it so it doesn't alert you, right?
Honestly I don't think there is any real reason to hate achievements you're just a whiny asshole.

"
Hey, Hey! keep it to yourself. We're having a debate here and your insults are not welcome.

We don't hate them, we just think they are stupid.
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Ma7moud

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#33  Edited By Ma7moud

Achievements are addicting.They don't just add replay value but they make me rent crappy games that has easy 1000 G.

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DualReaver

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#34  Edited By DualReaver
xruntime said:
"DualReaver said:
"ninjadodo said:
"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"
You know you can make it so it doesn't alert you, right?
Honestly I don't think there is any real reason to hate achievements you're just a whiny asshole.

"
Hey, Hey! keep it to yourself. We're having a debate here and your insults are not welcome.

We don't hate them, we just think they are stupid.
"
What exactly is the debate? He is just bitching about achievements and insulting people who try to get them.
As for Immersion simple, just turn off alerts.

His example is a little weird too, AC?
I doubt achievements had anything to do with its lack of immersion.
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steve316

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#35  Edited By steve316

achievements are awsome they add like 5 times more replay value

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Systech

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#36  Edited By Systech

No, but I wish I did.

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Svenddv

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#37  Edited By Svenddv

the way I see it is that achievements are a way of getting the feeling of accomplishment, a pat on the back by the developer saying "wow man you beat Ninja Gaiden II on path of the mentor awesome! heres 100 points". the points arent worth anything and they just kinda look good on your GT but i dunno guess you havent played a amazingly hard game before and didnt really get that acomplished feel (God Hand anyone). All in all its a love it or hate it thing, though that makes me want to ask you a question..

don't you want to acomplish things in your life?

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BiggerBomb

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#38  Edited By BiggerBomb

I don't go out of my way to get achievement points as I have about 7.5k, but they are a nice bonus. I'm not too competitive about them, though it's cool to see that you've gotten more achievement points in game X than your friend has in game X.

Overall they are win/10.

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xruntime

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#39  Edited By xruntime
Svenddv said:
"the way I see it is that achievements are a way of getting the feeling of accomplishment, a pat on the back by the developer saying "wow man you beat Ninja Gaiden II on path of the mentor awesome! heres 100 points". the points arent worth anything and they just kinda look good on your GT but i dunno guess you havent played a amazingly hard game before and didnt really get that acomplished feel (God Hand anyone). All in all its a love it or hate it thing, though that makes me want to ask you a question..

don't you want to acomplish things in your life?"
Yeah but you didn't really accomplish anything. You beat a video game.....

This is why MMOs are so successful. They give you the illusion of accomplishment when you're really single, living in your parents basement at age 30.
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crunchUK

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#40  Edited By crunchUK

i don't actually try to get them but i love it when one pops up

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ninjadodo

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#41  Edited By ninjadodo
DualReaver said:
What exactly is the debate? He is just bitching about achievements and insulting people who try to get them.
As for Immersion simple, just turn off alerts.

His example is a little weird too, AC?
I doubt achievements had anything to do with its lack of immersion.
"

The debate is in perfectly valid differing views on why achievements may or may not be a good thing. I think they are not. You're welcome to disagree, but I have not directly insulted anyone. If you take the Obsessive Compulsive comment personally then maybe that says more about you than me. Note that I did not say playing crappy games for points is sad, I said it makes me sad. If that's the best we can do as a medium, it makes me sad.

Despite it's flaws (and they are less on the PC) Assassin's Creed is one of the most immersive games to come out in recent years. It certainly does not deserve the hate. You cannot however turn off notifications in this game, nor could you previously (I think due to a bug) on Steam. Turning off the Steam overlay didn't work and I continued to be interrupted by pop-ups throughout Episode 2 and Portal.

This was annoying and broke immersion and I think that's a perfectly good reason to bring it up as bad game design. If you think that's whining, then what are you doing wasting your time replying in this thread?
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#42  Edited By BranDong
Subway said:
"Achievements for me are the greatest thing this generation of gaming, they really made games a lot more enjoyable for me.
"
I am totally with you on this one.  Normally I would stop playing a game after I had my fill of it... but I find myself going back to games more often now because of some of the more clever achievements.  Some achievements are pretty stupid though, but hey I'll take the points.
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godzilla_sushi

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#43  Edited By godzilla_sushi
ninjadodo said:
"DualReaver said:
What exactly is the debate? He is just bitching about achievements and insulting people who try to get them.
As for Immersion simple, just turn off alerts.

His example is a little weird too, AC?
I doubt achievements had anything to do with its lack of immersion.
"

The debate is in perfectly valid differing views on why achievements may or may not be a good thing. I think they are not. You're welcome to disagree, but I have not directly insulted anyone. If you take the Obsessive Compulsive comment personally then maybe that says more about you than me. Note that I did not say playing crappy games for points is sad, I said it makes me sad. If that's the best we can do as a medium, it makes me sad.

Despite it's flaws (and they are less on the PC) Assassin's Creed is one of the most immersive games to come out in recent years. It certainly does not deserve the hate. You cannot however turn off notifications in this game, nor could you previously (I think due to a bug) on Steam. Turning off the Steam overlay didn't work and I continued to be interrupted by pop-ups throughout Episode 2 and Portal.

This was annoying and broke immersion and I think that's a perfectly good reason to bring it up as bad game design. If you think that's whining, then what are you doing wasting your time replying in this thread?"

The debate is perfectly valid?

I'm under the impression that you either get bothered by people who spend their free time getting achievements, or your easily distracted.

If a blip comes up on your screen, and annoys you this badly, then it must be torture to drive a car. Or visit an ad-supported web-site. Or dread laundry day as it might interrupt your PC game. Give me a break! Why can't you just deal with it?

Answer that for me, why can't you deal with it?

I see old women complain about the 78 F room temperature all the time...

You made the thread, so here I am. Why are there so many of these threads? It's like an epedemic....Maybe write up a petition to Steam? Have you written a letter yet? Why don't you write a letter telling them how you feel, maybe they will take the feedback into consideration. I don't think they read the Giantbomb forums.

Something tells me your not willing to go that far...
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ninjadodo

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#44  Edited By ninjadodo

A few things:

I don't care what other people do with Achievements. I care if the best reason to play games is to score points, because then I don't think I would bother with this medium anymore...

As it happens I wrote an email to Valve about the achievement pop-ups among other things and they wrote back saying thanks for the feedback.

I'm not trying to enjoy fiction when I drive a car.

And I can deal fine, or i wouldn't be playing these games at all... but, just because you can deal with something bothersome doesn't make it a good thing. If you actually read the thread I'm not the only one that doesn't care for them. But whatever, I'm clearly in the wrong place for an argument that goes against The Laws of 360. Admittedly something I could have seen coming posting in the "Achievements" forum. My  bad.

Have fun with your points.

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godzilla_sushi

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#45  Edited By godzilla_sushi

You must have made this thread in a hurry because you've edited a lot.....

Look, I'm not here to criticize you as a person. But you're fair game for making another thread about this same old stuff. You must have expected the backlash for the thread at some point. If you didn't want fair discussion it probably shouldn't have been made.

I did read the thread, so hopefully you're not implying I didn't. This might be a back-handed compliment but I don't care how those other people feel about achievements good or bad, I care about what you think. I responded to you afterall....

I didn't say it was a good thing, my point was ultimately that it's 100% arbitrary. I'm glad you responded so I can get a little deeper into this. It might just be you and I, but that's good enough from this point on as far as I'm concerned. You know what this argument reminds me of, people who sue restaraunts for getting burned by coffee. Not necessarily you, but in general, people that pick on the tiniest issues in life waste the biggest amount of time.

I commend you on emailing Valve.

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pause422

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#46  Edited By pause422

Yes I think they're totally stupid in just about every way possible... will I still go out of my way to get one if it seems challenging or has a really cool name/objective? yeah I will, thought I don't know why.

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xxNBxx

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#47  Edited By xxNBxx
ninjadodo said:
"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"
they are pointless( pun indended)  unless they do something like the ones in Team Fortress 2.  In fact if all games had "milestones" like TF2 i would want to play a game over and over till i get them.
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xruntime

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#48  Edited By xruntime

I don't care that other people waste their lives away, but I think its pretty stupid to just play bad games and play games even when you do not enjoy them just to get "easy points". What does a number on a gamercard matter? So your e-penis on the giantbomb forums and xbox live is bigger?

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#49  Edited By ninjadodo

As far as editing, I tend to correct spelling and what have you after I post. :)

Since I don't frequent avenues of Achievement discussion I was not aware that this type of thread is common. I just happened to see the Achievements concept and had to ask. As far as reading the thread, that was more directed in general at those who would label me a solitary 'whiny asshole'. I can see how you might think this seems like a nitpicky thing to complain about, but for me the thing I get out of games I guess is escapism to an extent. I like to lose myself in an alternate world, and anything that breaks the illusion gets in the way of that experience. I play Assassin's Creed with the HUD off. Yes it's true that mostly these things are optional, but when they're not, they're intrusive and annoying.

Aside from that, I've never understood the urge to compete for highscores as it's always seemed to me an ultimately futile pursuit. It's fun for a while, but surely the reason for playing a game should be that it's a good game? I guess I'm worried that if all people want out of this medium is points, that's what we'll get... games will just become empty grind machines with nothing but fake rewards. There's a reason I don't play MMOs.

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#50  Edited By HitNRun
ninjadodo said:
"[edit: that's "think", not "thing"... too bad you can't edit titles]

I don't own a 360 and my only experience with "Achievements" has been on Steam and in Assassin's Creed PC, but I find it takes a lot of the fun out of it. It breaks immersion when you get some stupid pop-up saying you've unlocked "Road Kill" in the middle of an intense action sequence of Episode 2 or when you're constantly finding weird glitchy flags scattered across the Holy Land. Frankly, I don't play games to live out some kind of endless Obsessive Compulsive nightmare and I wish this whole thing would just go away.

We should want to explore games because they're fun and because the gameplay mechanics are interesting, not for some futile pursuit of arbitrary challenges. The very word "achievement" is ironic. Congratulations, you've just ticked a box! The fact that people will even play bad games just to score points makes me sad.
"
I totally agree with the immersion-breaking thing, and it's a concern I wish games going forward would address. I hunted flags and climbed the stupid telephone poles in Assassin's Creed just like everyone else, but they definitely broke the atmosphere and focus of the game in retrospect.

On the other hand, most games aren't super immersive, and for those they add a lot of replay value.

I think Blizzard and Steam and Sony (not that you can really blame Sony) taking up achievements are going to make them jump the shark. It was all well and good when you had a unified scoreboard, but having ice-blue "B"s appear whenever you kill a Diablo boss reminding you to obsess over your Diablo score and mourn over the fat red "0"s next to Starcraft 2 and WoW are going to burn people out on them altogether.

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