Careful, Internet Users--Mass Effect 3 Leaking All Over the Place

Aw man, gonna stop reading about ME3 starting now.

It would be nice if RPG mode actually resembled an RPG.

@xyzygy said:

I'm beginning to think that maybe this leak was good. Then we wouldn't all be so let down when the game finally does come out... because we will already know how terribly they handled the story.

True, there is that.

Keep up the good work, Microsoft.

<(T___T)>

I'm so tired of this developer notion that every game must appeal to every person. For God's sake, just let Mass Effect be Mass Effect. If you want to play a straight-up third person shooter, you shouldn't be playing Mass Effect. It's not the game's fault if it's too difficult or talky for you.
 
I am officially concerned about this game. The more I hear, the more I worry, and I really don't like where Bioware has gone. I'm sure the games press will continue to treat all of these controversies with kid gloves. Gotta get those early review copies!

@MattBodega said:

Action Mode, let's remove all of the gameplay options that make ME3 stand out and emphasize the one part of the game that doesn't stand up under close scrutiny.

Stupid, Stupid publisher.

The way Bioware has been behaving the past couple years, I don't understand. Is it pressure from EA making them compromise their designs in favour of braindead mass market concessions like this? Is it EA's fault that Dragon Age 2 turned out the way it did? Or is this Bioware having an identity crisis, taking complaints from people who don't even play RPG's as some sort of gospel from the casual fan base?

Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins are the games that put Bioware in the spotlight for this console generation. Going back on a lot of what made those games great in a desperate attempt for increased sales could easily backfire on them. In the attempt to make a game with universal appeal they end up with a game that pleases exactly no one.

@wsowen02 said:

@ArbitraryWater said:

Ok, I made the mistake of seeing some of those spoilers. They sound bad. Like... face-palmingly idiotic. Listen, I realize all that stuff about player choice is actually bullshit and always has been, but at least try to pretend it matters instead of offering the player an upraised middle finger to whatever they decided in the last game.

In any case, I'm going to have to find out for myself, and if it ends the way I hope it doesn't, I may have to rescind my status as a fan of Bioware.

Are they "Oh come on, did you even think about it for a minute before you did that?" or like "well they had kind of painted themselves into a corner so a retcon was probably the only option" sorts of things?

Hope that sentence was coherent.

Most of them are in the "We're too lazy to write with player choice in mind" kind of things. Like how it really didn't matter if you saved the council or not in the first game, but times 10. However, there are two things on that list in particular that sound EXTREMELY DUMB out of context. Maybe Bioware will be able to justify them within the overall structure of the game, but they sound like the ending of Dragon Age 2 all over again. In fact, Dragon Age 2 was so incredibly resilient to any of your decisions making any sort of impact beyond Hawke's intent that these spoilers kind of remind me of it.

@Brodehouse:

I don't know that ME1 is much of a decrease in complexity from KOTOR. If you'd like to confine it to this generation alone, I'd simply compare DA:Origins and DA2. That kind of difference is the thing that concerns me about current era Bioware. Changing things, not out of personal design vision, but appeals to fans of other genres in hopes that doing so will result in additional sales from those people.

My problem is Bioware letting the opinions of people who dislike their old games, and the opinions of their publisher, have a direct impact on their design choices. Doing that eventually becomes design-by-committee, which is the death of art.

@ArbitraryWater said:

@wsowen02 said:

@ArbitraryWater said:

Ok, I made the mistake of seeing some of those spoilers. They sound bad. Like... face-palmingly idiotic. Listen, I realize all that stuff about player choice is actually bullshit and always has been, but at least try to pretend it matters instead of offering the player an upraised middle finger to whatever they decided in the last game.

In any case, I'm going to have to find out for myself, and if it ends the way I hope it doesn't, I may have to rescind my status as a fan of Bioware.

Are they "Oh come on, did you even think about it for a minute before you did that?" or like "well they had kind of painted themselves into a corner so a retcon was probably the only option" sorts of things?

Hope that sentence was coherent.

Most of them are in the "We're too lazy to write with player choice in mind" kind of things. Like how it really didn't matter if you saved the council or not in the first game, but times 10. However, there are two things on that list in particular that sound EXTREMELY DUMB out of context. Maybe Bioware will be able to justify them within the overall structure of the game, but they sound like the ending of Dragon Age 2 all over again. In fact, Dragon Age 2 was so incredibly resilient to any of your decisions making any sort of impact beyond Hawke's intent that these spoilers kind of remind me of it.

And we know how well that went over with the Dragon Age fanbase. I just can't imagine how this direction sounded like a good idea to Bioware.

Oh god those modes are not a good sign... Let's just hope the story is as good as mass effect 1.

I have an idea: if you want to play for the story, play it on EASY, if you to play for the action, play it on HARD! its not that hard...

@Hailinel: It's probably something like: We want to tell the story we want to tell, but we don't want those pesky player choices to get in the way. I know! Let's allow them to make a choice, and then spit in their face! We make the choices around here! Action mode all the way motherfuckers!*

*the prior statement was hyperbolic in nature, but it does basically explain what annoyed me about DA2 the most. Nothing you do matters. Even as the champion of Kirkwall and even as pro-templar or pro-mage, you end up fighting plenty of both, and when you suggest compromise the game immediately mocks you for doing so. I could see someone saying that that was the whole point, that not even someone as important and powerful as Hawke can singlehandedly change anything, but they'd have to be a bigger apologist for that game than I.

This leak is crap. 4.4/5.

@Brodehouse said:

@wsowen02 For the record, the Zevran thing is/was a bug. Same with misplaced Alistair (he's a wandering drunk despite being made King). Anders and Leliana you might have a point (that has more to do with bad planning on their part).

A bug they have done nothing about as far as I know

@ArbitraryWater said:

@Hailinel: It's probably something like: We want to tell the story we want to tell, but we don't want those pesky player choices to get in the way. I know! Let's allow them to make a choice, and then spit in their face! We make the choices around here! Action mode all the way motherfuckers!*

*the prior statement was hyperbolic in nature, but it does basically explain what annoyed me about DA2 the most. Nothing you do matters. Even as the champion of Kirkwall and even as pro-templar or pro-mage, you end up fighting plenty of both, and when you suggest compromise the game immediately mocks you for doing so. I could see someone saying that that was the whole point, that not even someone as important and powerful as Hawke can singlehandedly change anything, but they'd have to be a bigger apologist for that game than I.

It was funny how in the lead up to that game's release they were insisting that Hawke would become the most important person in all of Thedas. In reality, s/he mostly just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If this is true THANK GOD BIOWARE! For doing what I've wanted done for a while, which is offering a major change of gameplay option like this by either removing story choices or action for those who don't care about them. I've been worried about the combat tweaks they've been talking about, while they're good for ME they're not good for my wife who has been playing Mass Effect since 1. By playing I mean "shooting in the general direction of the enemy." I swear it's painful to watch her play but she enjoys the story and the adventure and with Story mode she can get that hopefully with me NEVER having to do a fight for her. :)

Haha wow

Gamers: I LIKE OPTIONS IN MY GAMES, BUT ONLY OPTIONS THAT I LIKE.

@withateethuh said:

Gamers: I LIKE OPTIONS IN MY GAMES, BUT ONLY OPTIONS THAT I LIKE.

HAAAAAAHAHAHA!! Well put, Oxfurt!

@buckybit: So, there are blue ladies?

Is there, perhaps, boning?

Yea this looks like I won't be buying ME3.

Enough is enough, i'm just tired.

What's interesting is that we had a huge thread about all of this on NeoGAF and Microsoft actually sent GAF a Cease & Desist order for it to be taken down. Thread got nuked because of it.

I didn't even know you could send one of those to a forum.

This game is going to turn out horrible after they got Hepler as the main writer.

HEY SPOILERS GUYS I THINK SHEPERD IS GONNA BECOME A SHEPARD AFTER THIS GAME ENDS.

ALSO THE EARTH BLOWS UP, BUT WE WON CAUSE WE SACRIFICED IT TO KAMIKAZE ALL THE REAPERS.

That is all.

@Tennmuerti said:

Yea this looks like I won't be buying ME3.

Enough is enough, i'm just tired.

Why?

[troll]

Yea this looks like I won't be buying ME3.

Enough is enough, i'm just tired.

@ArbitraryWater said:

@Hailinel: It's probably something like: We want to tell the story we want to tell, but we don't want those pesky player choices to get in the way. I know! Let's allow them to make a choice, and then spit in their face! We make the choices around here! Action mode all the way motherfuckers!*

I've read the leaked script, and you're not far off. Every choice from the first two games is overridden.

Absolutely ridiculous.

@withateethuh said:

Gamers: I LIKE OPTIONS IN MY GAMES, BUT ONLY OPTIONS THAT I LIKE.

Best comment. Is it any wonder that I've cut back on reading video game comments and forums?

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti

Yea this looks like I won't be buying ME3.

Enough is enough, i'm just tired.

I bet you will buy it, and make many, many posts on the Mass Effect 3 board about how you don't like it. Agree or disagree?

Yea see, never bet on an outcome you can't control.

Will I make many posts on it? Probably.

I'm sure you are smart enough to connect the dots.

since the c&d letters have gone out to gaming sites, can somebody tell me what the spoilers are? i don't plan on buying or playing ME3. i would if bioware was still their own entity. unfortunately EA has wrecked what once was an awesome company.

Why would anyone play Action Mode : /

I remember Bioware pulling in a lot of data on how people were playing Mass Effect 2 (like how many were skipping quickly through dialogue options, etc). It seems likely they had data showing that a good number of people weren't spending much time on the dialogue. If so, it makes sense to have a mode where all the dialogue just flows past and you don't have to stop and make any decisions. Hence the Action Mode. At least, that seems the most likely explanation for the existence of the feature. I certainly won't play the game that way, but others might. I'm not sure it makes much difference either way. I'll put it in RPG mode and forget the others even exist. I'm not sure why anyone would complain about it. Not everyone plays these games the same way, and I'm very much in the "more people that play the better" camp. The idea that people who don't play like I do have "no business" playing the game is foreign to me. I just don't get it.

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti

Yea this looks like I won't be buying ME3.

Enough is enough, i'm just tired.

I bet you will buy it, and make many, many posts on the Mass Effect 3 board about how you don't like it. Agree or disagree?

Yea see, never bet on an outcome you can't control.

Will I make many posts on it? Probably.

I'm sure you are smart enough to connect the dots.

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti

Yea this looks like I won't be buying ME3.

Enough is enough, i'm just tired.

I bet you will buy it, and make many, many posts on the Mass Effect 3 board about how you don't like it. Agree or disagree?

Yea see, never bet on an outcome you can't control.

Will I make many posts on it? Probably.

I'm sure you are smart enough to connect the dots.

So either you're going to purchase a game that you actively dislike and obviously shouldn't purchase, or you're going to talk constantly about a game you've never played?

Or he's gonna be a complete douche and pirate it...

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti

Yea this looks like I won't be buying ME3.

Enough is enough, i'm just tired.

I bet you will buy it, and make many, many posts on the Mass Effect 3 board about how you don't like it. Agree or disagree?

Yea see, never bet on an outcome you can't control.

Will I make many posts on it? Probably.

I'm sure you are smart enough to connect the dots.

So either you're going to purchase a game that you actively dislike and obviously shouldn't purchase, or you're going to talk constantly about a game you've never played?

Guess I was wrong about your smarts.

@ImperiousRix: Or borrow it from a friend , or play it at my brothers, or yes pirate it. Maybe buy it if it manages to change my mind. We'll see. But definitely not buying it on faith this time around.

@Gerhabio said:

@Branwulf

Why would anyone play Action Mode : /

Because many people don't care to make super detailed decisions in their games. Even in a third-person shooter with RPG elements in it.

I can already see how Action Mode would work. The game will probably give you a decision at the start or near the character creator/modification screen that allows you to choose Action/Story/RPG mode and then break down even further into subcategories. I can see the breakdown of Action mode asking you if you want your Shepard to automatically answer the dialogue as a Paragon/Renegade/Neutral/Random. Something to that effect. You'll still hear all the dialogue (if you don't skip it by pressing a button) but you won't have to sit there and think about the answer as it has been predetermined by you already.

I can also see how it would be useful for a long time Mass Effect fan too. I know that personally I'll be playing the game in RPG mode the first time. If Action mode works the way I think it on repeat playthroughs will I will be selecting one course (Paragon/Renegade/Neutral/Random) and just blasting through the campaign over and over to see all the permutations in the game.

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti

Yea this looks like I won't be buying ME3.

Enough is enough, i'm just tired.

I bet you will buy it, and make many, many posts on the Mass Effect 3 board about how you don't like it. Agree or disagree?

Yea see, never bet on an outcome you can't control.

Will I make many posts on it? Probably.

I'm sure you are smart enough to connect the dots.

So either you're going to purchase a game that you actively dislike and obviously shouldn't purchase, or you're going to talk constantly about a game you've never played?

Guess I was wrong about your smarts.

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Tennmuerti

Yea this looks like I won't be buying ME3.

Enough is enough, i'm just tired.

I bet you will buy it, and make many, many posts on the Mass Effect 3 board about how you don't like it. Agree or disagree?

Yea see, never bet on an outcome you can't control.

Will I make many posts on it? Probably.

I'm sure you are smart enough to connect the dots.

So either you're going to purchase a game that you actively dislike and obviously shouldn't purchase, or you're going to talk constantly about a game you've never played?

Guess I was wrong about your smarts.

It's beyond incredible that you would play something you actively dislike.

Your lack of comprehension no longer amazes me.

I can't dislike the game I have not even played yet, unlike other people I will only fully judge a game's quality after having played it. I simply do not like where it looks like Bioware is taking it, therefore I will not be putting down $ when it's released. As at the moment with the available information it does seem to be worth the duckets. It's called voting with your wallet.

Those modes sound horrible... RPG mode it is.

@haggis said:

I remember Bioware pulling in a lot of data on how people were playing Mass Effect 2 (like how many were skipping quickly through dialogue options, etc). It seems likely they had data showing that a good number of people weren't spending much time on the dialogue. If so, it makes sense to have a mode where all the dialogue just flows past and you don't have to stop and make any decisions. Hence the Action Mode. At least, that seems the most likely explanation for the existence of the feature. I certainly won't play the game that way, but others might. I'm not sure it makes much difference either way. I'll put it in RPG mode and forget the others even exist. I'm not sure why anyone would complain about it. Not everyone plays these games the same way, and I'm very much in the "more people that play the better" camp. The idea that people who don't play like I do have "no business" playing the game is foreign to me. I just don't get it.

If that's the case, I wonder about Bioware's interpretation of those numbers. Are they able to differentiate between first play through and subsequent play throughs? How about first encounter with a given conversation versus repeat visits to that same conversation? If they can't separate those instances, their numbers would of course be heavily skewed towards conversation skipping. Everyone skips through dialogue they've already seen in order to try different options. Everyone triggers conversations with NPC's that have nothing new to say from the previous encounter with them, so you skip through them. How many times have you gone up to a crew member and skipped through all their old dialogue to see if they have anything new to say?

Troubling. Bioware is letting outside influence affect their design far too much. If they keep up like this it could easily destroy the brand loyalty they have worked so hard to build.

@HerbieBug: I don't think it's a bad thing that Bioware is using such data to tailor the game to how people actually play it. In fact, I wish more developers would do it. In this case, it's hard to see the downside: they've added new modes to appeal to certain types of gamers, but the core game doesn't seem to have changed dramatically. It's hard to say, given that the game hasn't been released yet.

I'd much rather have a developer that actually listened to gamers than one that didn't. It's not really outside influence. From what I remember, they can differentiate based on number of playthroughs, since they had talked about how many times some people had played through the game and how behavior changed. They seem to have been quite thorough in their methodology. I'd love to actually see the full data set. In any case, my vague recollections of the press release were that people skipped more quickly through conversations on later playthroughs (I can raise my hand on this one). I might consider playing through an action mode game if I'm mostly interested in an insane mode trek after I've seen the renegade and paragon paths. I can see quite a few gamers choosing that. It's hardly a negative thing.

15 minutes of beta play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfz1DppIDC0&feature=player_embedded#!