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Eight Women, Eight Responses, and One Dead Island Riptide Statue

A collection of reactions to last week's questionable marketing tactic from a variety of women in the video game industry.

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Deep Silver likely did not anticipate the intense reaction to its UK-specific Zombie Bait bundle for Dead Island Riptide when it was announced last week. The news came alongside other bundles for the sequel, but the Zombie Bait bundle received attention for a statue of a torn apart woman that featured nothing more than her bikini-wearing torso.

Deep Silver’s issued a questionable apology in response to the furor. The company did not discuss how this bundle even came into existence, and still hasn’t said whether it will be sold or not. One would hope not? I’ve asked the company for further clarification on that point, but as of publication, nothing has come back.

Here's the company's previous statement in full:

“We deeply apologize for any offense caused by the Dead Island Riptide “Zombie Bait Edition”, the collector’s edition announced for Europe and Australia. Like many gaming companies, Deep Silver has many offices in different countries, which is why sometimes different versions of Collector’s Editions come into being for North America, Europe, Australia, and Asia.

For the limited run of the Zombie Bait Edition for Europe and Australia, a decision was made to include a gruesome statue of a zombie torso, which was cut up like many of our fans had done to the undead enemies in the original Dead Island.

We sincerely regret this choice. We are collecting feedback continuously from the Dead Island community, as well as the international gaming community at large, for ongoing internal meetings with Deep Silver's entire international team today. For now, we want to reiterate to the community, fans and industry how deeply sorry we are, and that we are committed to making sure this will never happen again.”
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The story featured my own opinion on the subject, as do most pieces of content on Giant Bomb. You might have suspected part of my response, based on previous articles I’ve filed at the site, and the reaction was along the lines of the last conversation about #1reasonwhy. When I was mulling a follow-up, I didn’t want to have the same back-and-forth, and hoped to introduce some new voices.

So, I reached out to a number of women members of the video game community, and asked them to provide their individual reactions. There are voices from everywhere in games, from development to fellow writers. I didn't specifically seek out people who had expressed an opinion about Dead Island, I just figured they had one. Some chose to speak directly to what happened, some didn't. There weren't any rules.

I’m also going to start something new here. I won't guarantee it’ll happen every time, but for big features, I want to make sure there’s a dedicated time slot for spending time responding to comments. It won’t happen until the story has been up for a little while, and people have had a chance to digest it. In this case, it’s going to be for 30 minutes at 11:30 a.m. PST. As always, anything I don’t get to can be addressed in PM, on Twitter, or through my Tumblr site.

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Rhianna Pratchett, writer (Tomb Raider, Mirror’s Edge)

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I’m both a horror fan, and a Dead Island fan. But my initial reaction to Riptide’s mutilated torso was one of shock, bewilderment and confusion. I wasn’t morally outraged. It was more a deep sigh and eye roll of “Oh come on… really? REALLY?” Yes, horror and sex have been intertwined forever, but there was something about the visual depiction of this one that was unexpectedly disgusting for a number of reasons. A mutilated corpse (of either sex) is pretty disturbing, sure. A sexed-up (and there no other way to describe the perfectly round, barely covered up and non-zombified knockers) female corpse, offered up as a reward, has particularly nasty connotations. Especially when combined with the fact that it’s described as 'bait'--a confusing title for what was apparently meant to be (according to the developers) a zombie’s torso, rather than the mutilated and cut up human torso that it actually looked like. Zombies are not normally known for the penchant to chew down on the flesh of other zombies.

I’m accustomed to game companies marketing towards men. But rarely is it quite so blatantly i.e. "Here are some tits!" It’s a mistake to ignore the legions of female gamers out there, who enjoy their zombie killing just as much as the guys. It’s an even bigger mistake to outright annoy them. Believe me, I know this. I’ve got first-hand experience of being caught-up with a video games "controversy" on Tomb Raider, and so I know that marketing and the way we speak about and depict our characters and games is important. Industry and player debate about how we go about this is also valuable.

I was glad to see Deep Silver apologising for this rather large misstep, although I was a little perplexed by the fact that they seemed to use the fact that players apparently do this in the game (or at least have the option to) as some kind of get-out-of-jail card. I’ve done some horrendous things in games. I don’t particularly want to see them immortalised in statue form.

There’s been a lot of talk about whether it would have been okay if it was a male statue. But the fact that it isn’t (and we can only really talk about what we’ve been presented with, not what we haven’t) combined with the way the torso’s been depicted, strongly suggests that the marketeers would never have done that. A sexed-up male torso (and even with a six-pack it’s not quite the same) wouldn’t have appealed to the intended audience (straight men) in the same way. If they’d wanted to keep up this mutilated torso theme then a male torso and female torso, leaning against each other in zombie-baiting harmony, would’ve been a better way to go about it. And, given that the first game had a 50/50 male to female ratio of player characters and a similar ratio in the AI, rather more in keeping with the general tone of the game.

Better still, something like AMC’s Walking Dead collector’s edition head would have been more appropriate and arguably less offensive.

Follow more of Rhianna's work at www.rhiannapratchett.com and on Twitter.

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Clarice Meadows, writer and former sales operation manager at Take-Two Interactive

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When marketing departments come up with various tchotchkes to get people to buy a video game, there are a lot of factors that come into it. Theme, desirability, originality, and more. It's a matter of making something unusual and interesting enough, and yet appropriately themed for the game, that fans will absolutely HAVE to buy it. I like to think that there are focus groups involved in the choice of object, or at the very least more than just a bunch of marketing types being locked in a room for days fueled by caffeine and junk food until they come up with an idea and are let out. Sadly, I am pretty sure the latter is usually the case. The zombie torso created specifically for Dead Island Riptide was, in my opinion, a marketing catastrophe. I've heard many responses to this particular item. From "well women don't play games anyway" to "by getting mad about it and yelling, you guys are giving this company free advertising" to "it's like a classical sculpture of antiquity, but a zombie!" So let's break this down a bit.

1) I am a woman, and I play video games. I am not particularly unusual in my gender group in choosing to play video games. I grew up in the 80s, video games were around, and I liked them. I also happen to know quite a few other women who play games, including games like Dead Island. By ignoring women as a market demographic for a video game, companies are losing out hugely. By assuming women will only buy pink, glittery items or games that are about clothing and boyfriends, these companies are losing money. By putting out a completely sexist and crass marketing ploy, they are losing money. Seriously, isn't the point of triple-A games to make scads of cash? I really don't get making choices that lead to losing it instead, can you tell?

2) By yelling about something offensive, we're making a case that offensive marketing is unacceptable. By not yelling, we're giving silent consent to continuing crappy and cheap marketing choices. And trust me, this is crappy, cheap AND lazy marketing. Oh look, a pair of boobs! How innovative! Apparently these marketers think the only people playing video games are under-sexed pubescent mole men. I mean… seriously? Lazy.

3) The last time I checked, classical sculptures did not have boob jobs. Also, the last time I checked, real boobs did not do that while in a string bikini. There's this thing called gravity… And if we're going to have an argument that this torso is not overly sexed up and has turned a live woman (or live lady zombie) into a bunch of sex organs, then… well… someone is lying to themselves. Is it appropriate? Is necrophilia really acceptable now? Because that's what this feels like it's promoting to me.

Lazy and cheap marketing ploys don't make money, they cost money in PR nightmares and hours of dancing around apologizing. It doesn't take much to be smarter, and who knows? Maybe a new market full of lots of money will open up and be willing to spend that money on video games! I mean, didn't you hear that women have jobs and make money and LOVE to spend it? Think big video game companies. Think about all that cash you're letting slide right through your fingers, and play it smarter.

Follow more of Clarice's work at Plays Like a Girl and on Twitter.

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Kate Lorimer, composer and writer

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For my part, yes, I found it offensive, it was “the straw that broke the camel’s back” (though I am sure it won't be the last such incident) after a year of dodgy marketing (Hitman, Booth Babes, Tomb Raider, Girlfriend Mode, Anita Sarkeesian). And from a personal viewpoint, even a close friend expressing his being fed up with online “outrage” and “Feminist point-scoring pandering” from game websites like Rock Paper Shotgun--his words--and his complete (and somewhat deliberate) misunderstanding of the concept of Feminism (being supposedly more about pursuing Women’s interests above male's, as opposed to actually being about equality for both genders).

Unfortunately, amongst teens and younger players in general (but as Jenny Haniver has shown, far from exclusively) there’s likely to be a kneejerk reaction backlash at the outrage and offence caused by it, as kids love a bit of blood'n'gore, and certainly amongst the heterosexual hormone fueled boys that whole “cor... boobies” thing has an attraction. See: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153593/yes-ah-tah

The reasons for it being offensive are obvious to the clear of thought--it's objectification at its worst. Remove the person from the body, inexplicably leaving a pubescent boy’s idea of the perfect female figure, with balloon boobs (mysteriously untouched by hungry zombie snacking) and a peek at a panty enclosed crotch--of course, hiding the vagina within--which would likely be too offensive/edgy to the same boys!

Would the situation have been mitigated had there been an alternative option of a male torso? It might have slightly balanced the equality issue, though of course there is a special obsession with boobies--especially globe-tastic ones on an itty bitty waist! But the fact that it's just a female torso they decided to go with speaks volumes about their marketing, and the usual narrow-minded targeted demographic. It might have been just as grisly but slightly more in line with the zombie ethos to have had a scary looking zombie head?

Follow more of Kate's work at K8-bit and on Twitter.

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Elizabeth DeLoria, staff writer at Gameranx and cosplay photographer

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In September last year, Jill Meagher, a 29-year-old ABC employee, went missing while walking the short walk home from a popular Melbourne street. Thanks to a somewhat viral social media campaign, the entire country began to follow the case, people everywhere wanting Jill to be found alive and well and brought home.

When she was found murdered, buried in a shallow roadside grave after being kidnapped and sexually assaulted by a complete stranger, the entire country went from hopefully to angry. Angry that someone would do this, angry that she wasn't alive and well as we'd hoped, angry that she was minding her own business in her own suburb when she was attacked. People were so angry that when the alleged killer's name leaked, social media erupted with people from every walk of life wanting his head. An entire nation was in mourning, and thousands in Melbourne marched in her honor.

I mention this because we know it's not okay to kill people. We're angered and heartbroken when women are violently murdered (and that's just the cases we hear about.) The news of Jill Meagher, as an example, was devastating to thousands that didn't even know her. Yet at the same time, we're sent these messages that sexualize, glamorize and exploit a woman's decapitated torso. That use violent murder for the purpose of sex appeal and thus profit.

When I see the same people who I saw march for Jill, whose heart sank when they heard the news of her death ask me why this torso statue is "such a big deal," I don't even know how to begin to explain to them how they've come so close to the right thing, yet they sit so far from it.

I'm not really offended, I'm just mortified at how easily we seem to forget.

Follow more of Elizabeth's work at Gameranx and on Twitter.

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Vanessa Hunter, artist and game design graduate

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We need to start at the beginning if we are to stop the pervasiveness of sexism in gaming culture, and by sticking this statue in a set that will be received by kids and young adults, Deep Silver is reinforcing an already warped attitude toward women held by the gaming community.

If this statue had been reminiscent of Venus de Milo or the statue of David, and posed in a beautiful, creative way, perhaps I could have even admired it. But as a hunk of flesh plopped into a lifeless pose and trussed up in a string bikini, I seriously have to question the thought behind it.

My main reaction to this statue, however, is that it presents a woman as a literal piece of dead meat. It beheads all personality and life and strips away individuality to present the viewer with what is simply a hunk of flesh in a gaudy bikini. This figure gets up and screams "all I am worth is to fulfill your pleasures"

To a woman like me, it's sickening because it represents how some men see real-life women every day.

From someone who has seen firsthand how a monster who holds this attitude can choke the life out of someone beautiful and radiant, this bust is a nightmare come true. And what's worse is that the attitudes behind such an object reinforce this behaviour as okay.

As for Deep Silver's "apology" placing the blame on its fan base, many of whom view them as a role model, teaching them that sexism is okay if someone else has done it before is unacceptable. They need to grow up.

Follow more of Vanesssa's work through Instagram and on Twitter.

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Anonymous

I didn't feel offended by the Dead Island bikini statue. I did, however, find it quite tiresome. I don't think that it can be denied that the statue is an obvious example of sexual objectification--a mutilated torso with perfectly untouched breasts.

Sexual objectification of women is everywhere, and it's impact is a massive discussion that goes way beyond video games. What I found most tiresome about the statue wasn't the objectification but that making a statue such as this suggests a number of things that Deep Silver assumes about their audience. They assume that the audience are young shallow men whose main interests are tits and violence. It's insulting to men and its a common assumption in video game marketing. Women are not even considered as part of the possible audience. It's outdated thinking.

I've been playing video games since I was a kid, and it's probably the main thing I do for entertainment. I have as many female friends as male who play video games. It is tiresome to be constantly excluded--and if I am included then I am considered a novelty. Women who play games are a sizable chunk of the audience and have been around for as long as video games. Objects like this statue show that we are not really considered to exist.

This individual chose not to share their personal information for fear of potential backlash.

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Melissa Cooke, writer for FemmeGamer

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Personally, I think that it's rather disgusting that Deep Silver decided to sell this. The usage of a female chest and abdomen I assume was originally used as a shock tactic to grab the eyes of the media, obviously this has worked, but what made it sexist in my eyes was the way it was dressed up and the proportions on the body.

The breasts are very unrealistic in the way they're being held up by a string bikini, not to mention that there are no wounds on the breasts, making them all the more obvious.The stomach is also very flat, and the bust looks almost anorexic, which is a very damaging image to promote.

The bust lacks also a face or any other feature that makes this bust look human, which could be interpreted as Deep Silver saying "Look this isn't a human, it's a woman, look how her breasts are positioned for your enjoyment, isn't that cool?"

Overall, this is a rather shameless grab for attention on Deep Silver's part, and all this sort of stunt does is give the non-gaming public the idea that games and the people who are playing them are immature, and push any progress the industry has made back a few more years.

Follow Melissa's work at Femme Gamer and on Twitter.

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Anna Kipnis, senior gameplay programmer at Double Fine Productions

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It's really hard to approach this topic in any kind of novel way. At this point, it's hard to bring round people who have made their minds up that feminism threatens to ruin their entertainment; to convince them that it's troubling to have games openly revel in dismembering decomposing women in bikinis. Yet I don't believe in censorship, either. Personally, I push this sort of thing into the same category in my brain as boob mugs (which I respect more for at least cutting to the chase and showing actual nudity). I'm not sure why someone would want a headless, bloody, dismembered corpse of a woman's upper torso, with grotesquely fake boobs obscured by a sadly implicated union jack proudly displayed on their mantle, but they're not a person I can imagine seeing eye-to-eye with on many things.

I honestly believe you can have sexiness and violence in games, even at the same time, if that's what you want. I can't think of a great example of a game that has done this particularly well (no doubt there is one), but there are many examples in film. For instance, Quentin Tarantino has made plenty of movies over the years that feature sexy women in violent situations. Even women getting dismembered (Kill Bill Volume 1, Death Proof), and yet it's never felt sexist or misogynist to me. I walk away from the theater generally thinking of those women as role models, not victims.

I think it's on us, game developers, to prevent controversies like this one. I'm a game programmer and I would be pretty bummed if I was working on what was essentially a game equivalent of a boob mug. You're appealing to the lowest, most vulgar aspects of your audience at a time when games are widely criticized for being juvenile, senseless, and immature, only to then complain that the medium is not being taken seriously as an art form. We should strive to treat our medium with the respect it deserves.

Follow Anna's work at Double Fine Productions and on Twitter.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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granderojo

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Thanks for putting together this feature Patrick. Like I've said already, if you're going to sex up your preorder reward in your game, at least do it of a better quality. Aside from it being grotesque, it's just a really shitty sculpture. That said, I was really glad Anna got in this feature, she's quickly becoming my favourite person at Doublefine after getting to hear her nerd out over AI in Amnesia Fortnight. Great stuff, thanks for posting Patrick.

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Jayzilla

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Cool to see their takes on it. I would have just glossed over it had I seen it without any media attention. Why? Because it's a terrible game.

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EnduranceFun

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@Evilsbane said:

You..mean on the site about...video games? This is a bundle with..a video game...I agree the conversation isn't going anywhere and this thing is just dumb, but there are enough people with a problem where I think just getting pissy about an article from the guy on the site who writes articles about something that is COMPLETELY related to video games on a Site About Video Games is a little hilarious honestly

A game cover would be more relevant, it's that people find the coverage overbearing, hardly hilarious.

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Alpharudy

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Guess they figured sex and violence would sell?

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@Zetetic_Elench said:

@mrfluke said:

videogames are an "escapism" form of media, some of us just dont want to deal with negativity in our "escapism media"

And some of us don't like to have deal with sexism as an endemic problem in gaming, a thing we otherwise enjoy. Sorry I'm ruining your fun time by thinking that this is a thing that needs to be discussed and not just ignored so you can feel good by remaining ignorant and refusing to think critically of actual problems.

its cool, you keep dealing with your issues, just dont force people to think like you, your no different than a fucking bully if you say otherwise.

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jbuchan76

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@alpha_rudy@hotmail.com said:

Guess they figured sex and violence would sell?

totally sells.. (patrick must think he's genius)... LOL

I prefer violence with my sex please..

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@FancySoapsMan: because apparently it's only possible to objectify women.

I'm honestly getting really tired of people insisting upon the fact that men are also objectified...mostly on the basis that they are given six pack abs and whatnot. Let's look at some basic elementary facts: men and women both derive strength from their muscles THUS in order to be able to successfully wield that sword that is twice the size of their body or run nonstop or be in the army or whatever, it is REALISTIC for them to be muscular. Women, however, do not derive their strength from their TITS and therefore giant bouncing breasts are there solely for your enjoyment. The six pack abs are not.

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Turtlemayor333

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@rain_elbows said:

I just want to point out the hypocrisy here again. This is the same Patrick Klepek that included Shadows of the Damned on his top ten games of the year in 2011. That game featured a woman in lingerie on the cover in some regions. It was marketed with trailers that said the main character had to save his "hot girlfriend." The publisher created a parody of an adult magazine featuring the female lead. The game is loaded with sexual humor, scenes of nudity, and the repeated torture of the female lead. Patrick thought this was an awesome game last year (and rightfully so). Now he's decrying the the release of a headless female statue in promotion of a violent zombie game set on a tropical island as "sexist."

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You may now resume Patrick Klepek's White Knight Chronicles..

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Literally the most recent image on his Twitter account is giving his 3DS the finger which is just about the most offensive, sexist, inherently phallic gesture someone can possibly make.

This stuff writes itself.

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Carousel

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@shiggity_shwa: So even when it's a problem with women, it's the man's fault?

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Voysa_Reezun

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@missconstreu said:

@FancySoapsMan: because apparently it's only possible to objectify women.

I'm honestly getting really tired of people insisting upon the fact that men are also objectified...mostly on the basis that they are given six pack abs and whatnot. Let's look at some basic elementary facts: men and women both derive strength from their muscles THUS in order to be able to successfully wield that sword that is twice the size of their body or run nonstop or be in the army or whatever, it is REALISTIC for them to be muscular. Women, however, do not derive their strength from their TITS and therefore giant bouncing breasts are there solely for your enjoyment. The six pack abs are not.

This is a weird statement. If we're taking a biological tack, ample breasts on women signify health and the ability to birth and nourish healthy children. See those Greek fertility statues (kouros?) for an example.

It's obvious that men are sexualized in things like comic books (as are women, obviously). I think the bigger question is this: When is such sexualization appropriate and when is it not?

I also think that the argument that the gross sexualization of women in video games is shutting out a potential audience is also a more useful argument than the one that you are positing here. Of course, I think that the market will (hopefully) adjust to meet the needs of women. It will be interesting to see if stuff like Lollipop Chainsaw can co-exist with a more gender-diverse marketplace. Probably - after all, the fetishized images of men and women alike both co-exist with more realistic depictions in film and television.

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mrfluke

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@TooWalrus said:

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@TooWalrus said:

@patrickklepek: Well, it's east coast midnight, I've only just got home from work, and it's 2,000 comments later, but I'd still like to throw in my two cents. This was a welcome change from your past few articles on this topic. It's cool to hear what women in the business have to say about sexism in the gaming industry- and hopefully even the biggest assholes in this thread wouldn't deny that the problem does, at least, exist. In this case, I can definitely understand the sexist undertones in this 'marketing tool.' There are really only two points I'd like you to consider, and this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or anything, these are just personal suggestions:

  • First, I do feel like this particular incident has been blown out of proportion. What I mean is, this problem is industry wide, right? I think it would have been more compelling if you'd composite several instances of sexism in the industry, and presented it as a whole. I don't feel like it's right to dog-pile on Deep Silver if this issue runs so deep- especially since this statue could be potentially offensive for a few other reasons as well.
  • Second, I'd just appreciate if you'd expand a little more about why you believe what you do. The issue that comes to mind is the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer, which you've called 'disgusting,' without really explaining why. I watched the trailer again, and the only real sexism issue I could imagine someone having is the manner in which they cyborg is dressed. Most girls I know personally wear swimsuits that show more skin that the cyborg lady, so when you imply that merely showing skin is sexist, I start to wonder where you draw the line between acceptable and sexist. I think that's what's leading some people to compare you with fundamental Muslims demanding every women be covered with a burqa, or digging up past actions to try to point out hypocrisy of some sort.

Nice post duder. Not saying I agree or disagree, just sayin nice post.

@mrfluke said:

quoting this up, cause i agree

Oh, thanks guys. I was pretty pleased when reading through the comments this morning to find that very few of the users I respect the most had fallen onto the mindless hate train.

yea no worries, its not all assholes inside here :P, some of us inside this cesspool were having a good discussion, been talking to a few users via a pm.

(lemme tag )

one thing that bothers me though and i hope it doesnt become a trend, is a user got harassed by other users yesterday about just simply saying he doesnt need this negativity in his life and he uses videogames as "escapism", some other users told him that he should pay attention cause they care about this stupid sexism issue, i went ahead and told those users to go fuck themselves cause trying to force someone to listen to you is no different than fucking bullying imo.

only reason im writing about it is because i got a reply from said user that was getting harassed, expressing some real sincere gratitude for backing him up and for telling the other guy to fuck off. i was real shocked that he took things that seriously. (patrick if your reading this, i can send you the pm i got from said user)

so i hope patrick goes ahead with the new site making the distinctions between what is a news story and what is a opinion/discussion piece, cause it really seems it would help filter people out, as they are really people that just dont want to take part in this stuff, and it would give the people that want to take part in this stuff a more concentrated audience.

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This has really gone over 2,000 now.

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I wish there was some sort of code or tool on the site that allows anyone to see how many unique users posted in the thread vs. number of posts.

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@TooWalrus said:

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@TooWalrus said:

@patrickklepek: Well, it's east coast midnight, I've only just got home from work, and it's 2,000 comments later, but I'd still like to throw in my two cents. This was a welcome change from your past few articles on this topic. It's cool to hear what women in the business have to say about sexism in the gaming industry- and hopefully even the biggest assholes in this thread wouldn't deny that the problem does, at least, exist. In this case, I can definitely understand the sexist undertones in this 'marketing tool.' There are really only two points I'd like you to consider, and this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or anything, these are just personal suggestions:

  • First, I do feel like this particular incident has been blown out of proportion. What I mean is, this problem is industry wide, right? I think it would have been more compelling if you'd composite several instances of sexism in the industry, and presented it as a whole. I don't feel like it's right to dog-pile on Deep Silver if this issue runs so deep- especially since this statue could be potentially offensive for a few other reasons as well.
  • Second, I'd just appreciate if you'd expand a little more about why you believe what you do. The issue that comes to mind is the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer, which you've called 'disgusting,' without really explaining why. I watched the trailer again, and the only real sexism issue I could imagine someone having is the manner in which they cyborg is dressed. Most girls I know personally wear swimsuits that show more skin that the cyborg lady, so when you imply that merely showing skin is sexist, I start to wonder where you draw the line between acceptable and sexist. I think that's what's leading some people to compare you with fundamental Muslims demanding every women be covered with a burqa, or digging up past actions to try to point out hypocrisy of some sort.

Nice post duder. Not saying I agree or disagree, just sayin nice post.

@mrfluke said:

quoting this up, cause i agree

Oh, thanks guys. I was pretty pleased when reading through the comments this morning to find that very few of the users I respect the most had fallen onto the mindless hate train.

lemme add another point to this good points that are going on here as patrick is online and checking the comments

what is so wrong in getting male industry people to speak out on this issue? if the gaming industry is so male focused, then wouldnt getting males to back up the females do a lot of good? if this stupid statue is supposed to be targeted for us males, then they think we are a bunch of savages, i bet if you show that to the call of duty dudebro crowd they wouldnt like it and thing its gross, i really think so.

this is going to sound sexist, but how much permanent change is going to happen with just the women, the minority audience, the auidence that this statue is not targeted for, do for sexism? its gotta be a combined effort from both genders to make it happen. and it seems you not getting the males to say anything just shows a feminist bias honestly.

im sorry if this sounds sexist and im downplaying womens role here, im just looking at it from a cold business angle, would really having the minority audience speak out? and having the targeted audience stay quiet, create permanent change? change the people in charge minds about things?

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@CarlosTheDwarf said:

@ReaganStein said:

No Caption Provided

"Please don't use my sexy cleavage shot that I myself use on my public Twitter profile to illustrate my complaints about sexy cleavage statues. Because that might make me look like a hypocrite."

LOL

I was wondering why the picture was changed.

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@Jimi said:

Some men will find it fucked up, others won't.

Some women will find it fucked up, others won't.

ITT: A bunch of guys arguing for feminism while not really understanding the point of view of the opposite sex in order to prove they're not sexist to random people on the internet.

There, I just summed up all the comments so far. You're welcome.

Thanks, I got tired after reading the 200th comment.
I cannot believe I bothered to read all the comments on the DmC review and the other article regarding the same topic.
I need to use more time studying ancient greek philosophy.
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shiggity_shwa

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@Darji said:

@shiggity_shwa said:

@Darji said:

@shiggity_shwa said:

I created a GB account just to comment on this article. Or, more specifically, to comment on the comments. Scrolling through the comment section of this article filled me with such outrage, sadness, and hopelessness. This is simply an article for interested people to read (In other words, if you're not interested, don't read the damned article! No one is forcing "feminist propaganda" down your throat). The fact that the mere mention of sexism in gaming releases such hatred and patriarcal nonsense is proof positive that it's still a pervasive, important issue that really needs to be discussed.

As a man, it's easy for me to ignore sexism, and play off articles such as this as useless, because I'm not a victim of sexism (outside of companies like Deep Silver forming the lowest possible opinion of my intelligence). But as a human being, I simply cannot accept this kind of medieval mentality in a modern, supposedly 'enlightened' society.

If the idea of women being treated equally, and not being constantly represented as lifeless, sexed up husks, is so irritating to you that you have to release your vitriolic hatred on articles such as this, then you really should try saying some of these awful opinions to women's faces. See how far you get in life, being a half retarded, back woods, inbred, loser of a caveman, grunting at boobs and filling your home with plastic, mutilated torsos.

I'm ashamed of the gaming community. I'm ashamed of my gender. I'm ashamed that women are STILL entangled in a battle of inches, when it comes to equality. Keep your hatred in your parents' basement, and out of the civilized world. We'd all like to move on, and assholes like the ones commenting on this article, are the reason intelligent, enlightened people are stuck in the mud. Women are equal. Women have opinions. Women play games. Women are not treated equally in any part of the gaming industry, from creator, to consumer. You can try to refuse these realities, but it'll more than likely lead to a lonely, sad, pathetic existence. Have fun with that!

The problem is they are not... Woman today have far far more benefits than a man ever could have. For example child custody It does not even matter if the woman is an "asshole" to her child and does not care about it. If she wants the rights she will get it and with it she will get a lot of money. Same case with Jobs and employment rates. People now need to hire woman to fill a quote and it does not even matter if they are worse than the actual man that is also applying for this job. Why don't we have these quotes in female dominated jobs? Like in an hospital for example?And these are just a 2 examples of many many benefits woman have compared to man.

As long as people have benefits we will never archive any form of equality because someone will always be special treated. Same goes for racial benefits. As long these exist people will have have a set mind how woman are different from man or how black people are different from white people.

Back at the start of these groups it was the right thing to do but now we are not on this level anymore but as long as we always get in our face that woman and man or black and white people are different or need special care and attention we will archive NOTHING.

Thank you for reinforcing my arguments.

Women are given child custody because of patriarcal beliefs that they are natural caregivers, and more accustomed to child rearing, by their very nature. This isn't because of anti-male beliefs, so much as the assumption that women are here only to raise children. It's also worth nothing the vast majority of judges are male, which helps add to these verdicts.

There are no numbers, ANYWHERE, that suggest women are getting more jobs than men. There are, however, lots and lots of numbers that show women are still woefully underpaid for the work they do (as well as shamefully common sexual harassment in the workplace). There is not one single piece of legislature that forces employers to hire a certain number of women/minorities. Go ahead and look. There's nothing, Anywhere. On the planet. At all. There ARE equal employment companies, who can make the decision ON THEIR OWN to help employ women and minorities, because white men do not have the same issues getting jobs that others do.

Hospitals have primarily female employees because women are, again, presumed to be natural caregivers, so they get nursing jobs. However, the VAST majority of doctors, surgeons, board members, directors, and other higher up/higher paid positions are male. So there goes that part of your argument...

You are displaying typical patriarcal arguments, based solely on ignorance and a place of entitlement. You are saying things are better, even FINE, based on nothing. You display zero facts, zero numbers, zero studies, absolutely NOTHING to back up your arguments. You are just sick of hearing about this stuff, because, really, things SHOULD be better/fine/perfect by now. It's INSANE that things are still so bad. So you should check your facts, take a deep breath, and try putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

This all goes without mentioning the fact that between 20 and 25 percent of North American women suffer sexual abuse at the hands of a man. This all goes without saying that the Republican party is actively trying to take reproductive rights back to the 19th century. This all goes without saying that the most common cause of death in American women is spousal abuse, leading to death.

Open your eyes. The world ain't what you think it is...

Woman even get the custody of a child even if they dont care about the child and even if the child has a much stronger bond to the father. Even if they just want the money. All this patriarcal bullshit is stupid as hell. It should all benefit the child and if the woman is just I am sorry for this description: Lousy golddigger that just wants the kid because she is getting money through that than the whole system is a total failure: And these cases are not rare.

Job: So why get woman the benefit of a natural caregiver and men not the benefit of being the better businessmen? Again because of this patriarcal bullshit. Men can be as good as woman in this regard. If they are fitted for the job they should get tthe same chances.

Also you want numbers? Go to a university and there visit a library and read thesis after thesis about this topic. You dont really expect me here in a gaming forum to show you evidence how this patriarcal bullshit is just part of the problem?

Stop treating people different. Stop giving people benefits: Stop teaching your child that woman are special and that they need special treatment. because they do not. Stop saying never hit a woman. Start saying NEVER HIT ANYONE.

Also I am not saying to stop caring about domestic violence but stop only care about domestic Violence against woman. Go against any form of domestic Violence and it DOES NOT matter if the there is a higher percentage of woman that suffer from it. EVERY PERCENT is Wrong. EVERY SEXUAL ABUSE is wrong.

As long you try to make woman a special case nothing will ever change.

Over and over again, you're proving my points, so, in a strange way, I should thank you.

Your description of a woman who gets custody of her child is a "lousy golddigger" that "just wants money." I agree one hundred percent that unworthy people should not get custody of their child over a better candidate, but surely you can see how your jumping to the conclusion that all these women are selfish golddiggers is unfair, biased, and sexist. I'm not sure where you're getting your information on this, either. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I simply cannot believe that the majority of women divorcees are golddiggers, or unworthy parents. Even if this WERE the case, you're still proving my point that the assumption is that women are natural child rearers, and therefore get custody, even if it's not the right decision for the child. You're proving my point that patriarchy damages, absolutely.

Your second point is that A) It's ok to presume women are natural caregivers (it isn't), and B) Men should therefore be presumed to be better businessmen (they already are). Again, you're making incredibly sexist arguments, and proving my point, perfectly.

I don't need you to cite your sources, but you can't throw out blatantly incorrect statements, such as, "Women are employed more than men" without offering some kind of evidence. You pulled that statement out of your ass, it was wrong, and I called you out on it.

My journeys through university libraries have yet to yield row upon row of thesis' on the plight of the man. Usually, people will write their thesis based on facts, information, and provable concepts. While I am certain people have written their thesis on how much better they feel women have it than men (sometimes people like to take the opposite side of an argument to try and wrangle up interest), this is far from proof that women have it great, and men have the short end of the stick.

Your opinion on domestic violence is apt; all domestic violence is wrong. However, you added that percentages don't matter. I take issue with this concept on the sole basis that over 99% of spousal abuse is man on women violence. If it were closer to 50/50, or even the stupid "1 in 3 are women on man violence" lie Rush Limbaugh has somehow perpetrated, I might be more inclined to agree that the stats aren't important.

The issue here is men. Men can't seem to take responsibility for our own gender. Violent crimes. Rape. Abuse. Prejudice. Racism. Sexism. Gun deaths. Thefts. Drug dealing. Pimping. These, and many others, are by and large the crimes of men. There is CLEARLY something wrong with the way men are relating to the world around them. Why can't we just accept that, address the issue, and move on? Why do we have to deal with men constantly complaining about how "well" women have it, while they themselves are STILL the common element in a VAST quantity of todays issues? (Perfect example: blaming rape victims for being raped. This works under the assumption that men just RAPE, and we can't be held responsible for RAPING another HUMAN BEING, because it's just what we do! "She shouldn't have worn an attractive outfit at a BAR! How could I NOT rape her?!")

You, my friend, are a perfect example of this. You can't see the forest for the trees. You're so caught up in trying to feel bad for yourself, that you can't see reality for what it is. Personally, I think the most threatening epidemic in modern society is ignorance. Ignorance has become far too acceptable, and we are seeing the effects of it in your statements.

Seriously. You're a man. You're fine. No one is going to take away your rights. No one is going to make life hell for you. If anything, things are just going to get better and better for you, because (and here's the kicker) almost all major decision makers in this world are MEN.

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@Turtlemayor333 said:

@rain_elbows said:

I just want to point out the hypocrisy here again. This is the same Patrick Klepek that included Shadows of the Damned on his top ten games of the year in 2011. That game featured a woman in lingerie on the cover in some regions. It was marketed with trailers that said the main character had to save his "hot girlfriend." The publisher created a parody of an adult magazine featuring the female lead. The game is loaded with sexual humor, scenes of nudity, and the repeated torture of the female lead. Patrick thought this was an awesome game last year (and rightfully so). Now he's decrying the the release of a headless female statue in promotion of a violent zombie game set on a tropical island as "sexist."

No Caption Provided

You may now resume Patrick Klepek's White Knight Chronicles..

No Caption Provided

Literally the most recent image on his Twitter account is giving his 3DS the finger which is just about the most offensive, sexist, inherently phallic gesture someone can possibly make.

This stuff writes itself.

I laughed.

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@EnduranceFun said:

@Evilsbane said:

You..mean on the site about...video games? This is a bundle with..a video game...I agree the conversation isn't going anywhere and this thing is just dumb, but there are enough people with a problem where I think just getting pissy about an article from the guy on the site who writes articles about something that is COMPLETELY related to video games on a Site About Video Games is a little hilarious honestly

A game cover would be more relevant, it's that people find the coverage overbearing, hardly hilarious.

You mean that people being so up in arms about the article being bad..right? And believe me it being hilarious I meant with great sarcasm.

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Man. A large part of this community kind of sucks.

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shiggity_shwa

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@Carousel: I'm not sure what part of my (overly long) comments you're referring to... That being said, I know I didn't say, or even imply, anything like what you're implying.

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@mrfluke: @mrfluke said:

@TooWalrus said:

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@TooWalrus said:

@patrickklepek: Well, it's east coast midnight, I've only just got home from work, and it's 2,000 comments later, but I'd still like to throw in my two cents. This was a welcome change from your past few articles on this topic. It's cool to hear what women in the business have to say about sexism in the gaming industry- and hopefully even the biggest assholes in this thread wouldn't deny that the problem does, at least, exist. In this case, I can definitely understand the sexist undertones in this 'marketing tool.' There are really only two points I'd like you to consider, and this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or anything, these are just personal suggestions:

  • First, I do feel like this particular incident has been blown out of proportion. What I mean is, this problem is industry wide, right? I think it would have been more compelling if you'd composite several instances of sexism in the industry, and presented it as a whole. I don't feel like it's right to dog-pile on Deep Silver if this issue runs so deep- especially since this statue could be potentially offensive for a few other reasons as well.
  • Second, I'd just appreciate if you'd expand a little more about why you believe what you do. The issue that comes to mind is the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer, which you've called 'disgusting,' without really explaining why. I watched the trailer again, and the only real sexism issue I could imagine someone having is the manner in which they cyborg is dressed. Most girls I know personally wear swimsuits that show more skin that the cyborg lady, so when you imply that merely showing skin is sexist, I start to wonder where you draw the line between acceptable and sexist. I think that's what's leading some people to compare you with fundamental Muslims demanding every women be covered with a burqa, or digging up past actions to try to point out hypocrisy of some sort.

Nice post duder. Not saying I agree or disagree, just sayin nice post.

@mrfluke said:

quoting this up, cause i agree

Oh, thanks guys. I was pretty pleased when reading through the comments this morning to find that very few of the users I respect the most had fallen onto the mindless hate train.

yea no worries, its not all assholes inside here :P, some of us inside this cesspool were having a good discussion, been talking to a few users via a pm.

(lemme tag )

one thing that bothers me though and i hope it doesnt become a trend, is a user got harassed by other users yesterday about just simply saying he doesnt need this negativity in his life and he uses videogames as "escapism", some other users told him that he should pay attention cause they care about this stupid sexism issue, i went ahead and told those users to go fuck themselves cause trying to force someone to listen to you is no different than fucking bullying imo.

only reason im writing about it is because i got a reply from said user that was getting harassed, expressing some real sincere gratitude for backing him up and for telling the other guy to fuck off. i was real shocked that he took things that seriously. (patrick if your reading this, i can send you the pm i got from said user)

so i hope patrick goes ahead with the new site making the distinctions between what is a news story and what is a opinion/discussion piece, cause it really seems it would help filter people out, as they are really people that just dont want to take part in this stuff, and it would give the people that want to take part in this stuff a more concentrated audience.

Yeah, I didn't see the conversations/interactions in the comments that you mentioned but I do see it often. It's gotten so out of hand to the point that people are name calling, insulting, or are attempting to emotionally bully or coerce other people to make them see their point on all the sides of the issue since there aren't just two sides from the way I see it. I saw this A LOT in the Gamasutra EA executive article that was being linked in the comments section in this article. A guy in the comments was just stating his experience in his profession and certain people were pointing out how his view was somewhat sexist (but it was also not blatantly obvious since it was just the guys observations in his work place) and other people started to call his observations/views in such a manner that instead of enlightening the guy it just seemed like he was being outright told that he should have really known or been aware of it in the first place. It was frustrating to read the responses and see how people are just too caught up or upset or angry or snarky to the point that proper discussion is near impossible. Also, the guy wasn't a native English speaker so I think that could have been a contributing factor especially when reading text since it is a lot harder to convey proper context.

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Thinking about going through this topic and writing down the ratio of amount of posts that are actually sexist/misogynistic and the amount of posts calling everybody misogynistic sexist children. Because I bet it would be hilariously one sided.

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@Evilsbane: I don't know.

Here's some high-level Bayonetta for your enjoyment.

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@GaspoweR said:

@mrfluke: @mrfluke said:

@TooWalrus said:

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@TooWalrus said:

@patrickklepek: Well, it's east coast midnight, I've only just got home from work, and it's 2,000 comments later, but I'd still like to throw in my two cents. This was a welcome change from your past few articles on this topic. It's cool to hear what women in the business have to say about sexism in the gaming industry- and hopefully even the biggest assholes in this thread wouldn't deny that the problem does, at least, exist. In this case, I can definitely understand the sexist undertones in this 'marketing tool.' There are really only two points I'd like you to consider, and this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or anything, these are just personal suggestions:

  • First, I do feel like this particular incident has been blown out of proportion. What I mean is, this problem is industry wide, right? I think it would have been more compelling if you'd composite several instances of sexism in the industry, and presented it as a whole. I don't feel like it's right to dog-pile on Deep Silver if this issue runs so deep- especially since this statue could be potentially offensive for a few other reasons as well.
  • Second, I'd just appreciate if you'd expand a little more about why you believe what you do. The issue that comes to mind is the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer, which you've called 'disgusting,' without really explaining why. I watched the trailer again, and the only real sexism issue I could imagine someone having is the manner in which they cyborg is dressed. Most girls I know personally wear swimsuits that show more skin that the cyborg lady, so when you imply that merely showing skin is sexist, I start to wonder where you draw the line between acceptable and sexist. I think that's what's leading some people to compare you with fundamental Muslims demanding every women be covered with a burqa, or digging up past actions to try to point out hypocrisy of some sort.

Nice post duder. Not saying I agree or disagree, just sayin nice post.

@mrfluke said:

quoting this up, cause i agree

Oh, thanks guys. I was pretty pleased when reading through the comments this morning to find that very few of the users I respect the most had fallen onto the mindless hate train.

yea no worries, its not all assholes inside here :P, some of us inside this cesspool were having a good discussion, been talking to a few users via a pm.

(lemme tag )

one thing that bothers me though and i hope it doesnt become a trend, is a user got harassed by other users yesterday about just simply saying he doesnt need this negativity in his life and he uses videogames as "escapism", some other users told him that he should pay attention cause they care about this stupid sexism issue, i went ahead and told those users to go fuck themselves cause trying to force someone to listen to you is no different than fucking bullying imo.

only reason im writing about it is because i got a reply from said user that was getting harassed, expressing some real sincere gratitude for backing him up and for telling the other guy to fuck off. i was real shocked that he took things that seriously. (patrick if your reading this, i can send you the pm i got from said user)

so i hope patrick goes ahead with the new site making the distinctions between what is a news story and what is a opinion/discussion piece, cause it really seems it would help filter people out, as they are really people that just dont want to take part in this stuff, and it would give the people that want to take part in this stuff a more concentrated audience.

Yeah, I didn't see the conversations/interactions in the comments that you mentioned but I do see it often. It's gotten so out of hand to the point that people are name calling, insulting, or are attempting to emotionally bully or coerce other people to make them see their point on all the sides of the issue since there aren't just two sides from the way I see it. I saw this A LOT in the Gamasutra EA executive article that was being linked in the comments section in this article. A guy in the comments was just stating his experience in his profession and certain people were pointing out how his view was somewhat sexist (but it was also not blatantly obvious since it was just the guys observations in his work place) and other people started to call his observations/views in such a manner that instead of enlightening the guy it just seemed like he was being outright told that he should have really known or been aware of it in the first place. It was frustrating to read the responses and see how people are just too caught up or upset or angry or snarky to the point that proper discussion is near impossible. Also, the guy wasn't a native English speaker so I think that could have been a contributing factor especially when reading text since it is a lot harder to convey proper context.

the fact that this kind of behavior is spreading to giantbomb now (which hard to believe i know, but back in the day this place had 0 assholes,) is ridiculous i really hope he makes the distinction next time on the new site.

if theres one thing that reallly gets under my skin is bullying of any form.

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I was really happy reading this piece. I love reading the thoughts of women in the gaming industry. So then I thought "Hey, GB is usually a positive community, what do they have to say about this?" And then I was sad.

I just don't understand how people can say "Ugh, I'm so tired of hearing of this feminist whining. It's not like it's going to do anything, so shut up."

First of all, yeah I'm fucking tired of it too. You know what I'm more tired of? Sexism in video games and in the gaming industry. You might be pissed that these sexism articles are "cluttering" the front page. Well, I'm pissed because gross shit like this still exists.

I also don't understand people who treat feminism as a bad word. Feminism is for gender equality. Why wouldn't you want that?

Also, if you have something meaningful to say, staying silent is just plain silly. Speaking out is the only way to get heard. For example, Jenny Haniver has a groovy site that spreads awareness on some of the shit you have to deal with if you play online with a mic and you happen to have a feminine voice.

And finally, thanks

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I'm not going to comment on "patriarchy" or "privilege" or any of that. I'm just going to say I thought Giant Bomb was about FUN. I thought Giant Bomb was about GAMES. This ultimately has nothing to do with the game, and it's damn sure not fun. I'm disappointed that this was allowed to go up. I don't come to this site for my daily dose of being told I'm "a privileged white male sexist" or whatever. I come here to have fun reading about games.

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@mrfluke said:

@TooWalrus said:

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@TooWalrus said:

@patrickklepek: Well, it's east coast midnight, I've only just got home from work, and it's 2,000 comments later, but I'd still like to throw in my two cents. This was a welcome change from your past few articles on this topic. It's cool to hear what women in the business have to say about sexism in the gaming industry- and hopefully even the biggest assholes in this thread wouldn't deny that the problem does, at least, exist. In this case, I can definitely understand the sexist undertones in this 'marketing tool.' There are really only two points I'd like you to consider, and this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or anything, these are just personal suggestions:

  • First, I do feel like this particular incident has been blown out of proportion. What I mean is, this problem is industry wide, right? I think it would have been more compelling if you'd composite several instances of sexism in the industry, and presented it as a whole. I don't feel like it's right to dog-pile on Deep Silver if this issue runs so deep- especially since this statue could be potentially offensive for a few other reasons as well.
  • Second, I'd just appreciate if you'd expand a little more about why you believe what you do. The issue that comes to mind is the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer, which you've called 'disgusting,' without really explaining why. I watched the trailer again, and the only real sexism issue I could imagine someone having is the manner in which they cyborg is dressed. Most girls I know personally wear swimsuits that show more skin that the cyborg lady, so when you imply that merely showing skin is sexist, I start to wonder where you draw the line between acceptable and sexist. I think that's what's leading some people to compare you with fundamental Muslims demanding every women be covered with a burqa, or digging up past actions to try to point out hypocrisy of some sort.

Nice post duder. Not saying I agree or disagree, just sayin nice post.

@mrfluke said:

quoting this up, cause i agree

Oh, thanks guys. I was pretty pleased when reading through the comments this morning to find that very few of the users I respect the most had fallen onto the mindless hate train.

lemme add another point to this good points that are going on here as patrick is online and checking the comments

what is so wrong in getting male industry people to speak out on this issue? if the gaming industry is so male focused, then wouldnt getting males to back up the females do a lot of good? if this stupid statue is supposed to be targeted for us males, then they think we are a bunch of savages, i bet if you show that to the call of duty dudebro crowd they wouldnt like it and thing its gross, i really think so.

this is going to sound sexist, but how much permanent change is going to happen with just the women, the minority audience, the auidence that this statue is not targeted for, do for sexism? its gotta be a combined effort from both genders to make it happen. and it seems you not getting the males to say anything just shows a feminist bias honestly.

im sorry if this sounds sexist and im downplaying womens role here, im just looking at it from a cold business angle, would really having the minority audience speak out? and having the targeted audience stay quiet, create permanent change? change the people in charge minds about things?

I think you're seeing what a lot of men think in these comments. I think you're seeing just how ignorant, hateful, and sexist a large portion of the audience is.

I agree that getting professional male viewpoints would not be a bad thing, but why does it matter that women have something to say about this? You say that the targeted audience is being left silent. 2000+ commenters disagree.

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@ImmortalSanchez said:

I'm not going to comment on "patriarchy" or "privilege" or any of that. I'm just going to say I thought Giant Bomb was about FUN. I thought Giant Bomb was about GAMES. This ultimately has nothing to do with the game, and it's damn sure not fun. I'm disappointed that this was allowed to go up. I don't come to this site for my daily dose of being told I'm "a privileged white male sexist" or whatever. I come here to have fun reading about games.

That doesn't get people upset and generate page views.

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kalmia64

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@ImmortalSanchez: And I play video games to have fun. Not be told to get in the kitchen and make a sandwich. Not to be told to suck a guys dick. Not to be told that I deserve to be violently raped.

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Phatmac

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Jeez, the war is still going on over here? Who's winning?

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Christ can the Patrick haters gtfo

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@shiggity_shwa said:

@mrfluke said:

@TooWalrus said:

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@TooWalrus said:

@patrickklepek: Well, it's east coast midnight, I've only just got home from work, and it's 2,000 comments later, but I'd still like to throw in my two cents. This was a welcome change from your past few articles on this topic. It's cool to hear what women in the business have to say about sexism in the gaming industry- and hopefully even the biggest assholes in this thread wouldn't deny that the problem does, at least, exist. In this case, I can definitely understand the sexist undertones in this 'marketing tool.' There are really only two points I'd like you to consider, and this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or anything, these are just personal suggestions:

  • First, I do feel like this particular incident has been blown out of proportion. What I mean is, this problem is industry wide, right? I think it would have been more compelling if you'd composite several instances of sexism in the industry, and presented it as a whole. I don't feel like it's right to dog-pile on Deep Silver if this issue runs so deep- especially since this statue could be potentially offensive for a few other reasons as well.
  • Second, I'd just appreciate if you'd expand a little more about why you believe what you do. The issue that comes to mind is the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer, which you've called 'disgusting,' without really explaining why. I watched the trailer again, and the only real sexism issue I could imagine someone having is the manner in which they cyborg is dressed. Most girls I know personally wear swimsuits that show more skin that the cyborg lady, so when you imply that merely showing skin is sexist, I start to wonder where you draw the line between acceptable and sexist. I think that's what's leading some people to compare you with fundamental Muslims demanding every women be covered with a burqa, or digging up past actions to try to point out hypocrisy of some sort.

Nice post duder. Not saying I agree or disagree, just sayin nice post.

@mrfluke said:

quoting this up, cause i agree

Oh, thanks guys. I was pretty pleased when reading through the comments this morning to find that very few of the users I respect the most had fallen onto the mindless hate train.

lemme add another point to this good points that are going on here as patrick is online and checking the comments

what is so wrong in getting male industry people to speak out on this issue? if the gaming industry is so male focused, then wouldnt getting males to back up the females do a lot of good? if this stupid statue is supposed to be targeted for us males, then they think we are a bunch of savages, i bet if you show that to the call of duty dudebro crowd they wouldnt like it and thing its gross, i really think so.

this is going to sound sexist, but how much permanent change is going to happen with just the women, the minority audience, the auidence that this statue is not targeted for, do for sexism? its gotta be a combined effort from both genders to make it happen. and it seems you not getting the males to say anything just shows a feminist bias honestly.

im sorry if this sounds sexist and im downplaying womens role here, im just looking at it from a cold business angle, would really having the minority audience speak out? and having the targeted audience stay quiet, create permanent change? change the people in charge minds about things?

I think you're seeing what a lot of men think in these comments. I think you're seeing just how ignorant, hateful, and sexist a large portion of the audience is.

I agree that getting professional male viewpoints would not be a bad thing, but why does it matter that women have something to say about this? You say that the targeted audience is being left silent. 2000+ commenters disagree.

absolutely nothings wrong that women are speaking out, im just wondering how much a permanent change it will create without the target audience getting its proper professional voice as well. a bunch of females came out and voiced their opinion when they saw that they got professionals backing them up, and then shortly disappeared afterwards.

im going to assume your female here, correct me if im wrong, (ive actually had a pretty good civil friendly conversation with one of you guys already via a pm , seems you all really only come out and talk when stories like this are posted and then disappear shortly afterwards) and if we're generalizing here about 2000 comments being just about males expressing their hate, and no legitimate criticism was taking place,then we can go back to that one reason why article, cause as much as there were good females that were rightfully getting their voices heard, there were a bunch of females that were NOT about gender equality and only using that 1reasonwhy as a scapegoat to further their own agendas

so please dont dismiss and generalize all these 2000 comments as just being males being hateful and sexist.

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Krullban

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@kalmia64 said:

@ImmortalSanchez: And I play video games to have fun. Not be told to get in the kitchen and make a sandwich. Not to be told to suck a guys dick. Not to be told that I deserve to be violently raped.

Nobody in this topic is saying any of that, so I don't even know where you got that from. A lot of people just simply don't think this is a sexist issue, and think we should talk about sexism when something sexist actually exists, not just making massive issues about things that never should have been an issue in the first place. Sure, it's questionable to have a torso statue(Even then, horror fans like gory stuff.) But there is nothing sexist about this, if you see something sexual about a dismembered body simply because it has boobs, you have much deeper problems than you think, because there is nothing sexual about it, regardless of how hard you, or Patrick try to make it an issue about gender equality, it simply isn't one.

As I said, I have no problem talking about the issue of sexism, but PLEASE for the love of god talk about it when it's actually warranted, and not when it's something utterly stupid where you have to look at it for a deeper meaning that's not even there as a way to say it's sexist.

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@mrfluke: I suspect you don't mean anything derogatory but your wording may cause someone with a chip on their shoulder to comment on your use of the word female to describe women.

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If you don't like a product and never plan on buying it, cry about it on the Internet hard enough to cause a company to take it down AND issue an apology to the public.

Because screw letting businesses sell to whatever market they want to sell to, let's spread extreme feminist views instead!

This bust is so evil, it CLEARLY shows how men are just shallow minded things who only want decapitated female busts that don't even show titties. And we're future rapists/ child molesters for not minding it.

Also, we're bringing the entire video game industry down because the video game industry needs to be SUPER MATURE just like film and music is! Don't you see how mature those other industries are, they NEVER release stuff like this!

People in here have also pointed out how hypocritical Patrick is, considering some of his Top 10 picks for 2012 which clearly objectify women.

The women in these posts are the type of women who would yell at you for holding the door for them or pointing out any cute girl in a movie/TV show.

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That statue could be of a man with breast implants

Just sayin'

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EnduranceFun

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@acrimsonbullet: Have you learned nothing about the patriarchy? #WakeUpSheeple

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@Sergio: let them come :P im open to having civil discussions, already had a good civil friendly discussion with one of these female activists already via a pm. and then she shortly disappeared right after, and judging from her feed, she had only commented on this story and the 1 reason why story.

the current one-off female activist thats lurking here though doesnt seem as friendly though and seems like she has it out for males lol.

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Some day the industry will grow up.

But that won't happen until its consumer base grows up.

And based on these comments, it won't happen any time soon.

(informative article; decent read. Thanks, Patrick)

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@DarkbeatDK said:

@ReaganStein said:

No Caption Provided

"Please don't use my sexy cleavage shot that I myself use on my public Twitter profile to illustrate my complaints about sexy cleavage statues. Because that might make me look like a hypocrite."

LOL

I don't think that's what she's saying. I think she's saying whoever chose her picture to use for this article, (I'd have to imagine it's Patrick) assumed her picture for her. Probably thinking her twitter picture with "OH NO CLEAVAGE!!" would bring down the article.

That's pretty gross on GB's side, actually. Not hers. Most of the other ladies on here just have their Twitter pic repped. I'm sure it made her feel pretty dumb when she realized GB didn't like her default pic because how it works with the article, and then didn't even ask her for another one and just picked one for her.

Kind of weird assuming choices for women in an article that's supposed to be about female strength.

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@shiggity_shwa said:

Your description of a woman who gets custody of her child is a "lousy golddigger" that "just wants money." I agree one hundred percent that unworthy people should not get custody of their child over a better candidate, but surely you can see how your jumping to the conclusion that all these women are selfish golddiggers is unfair, biased, and sexist. I'm not sure where you're getting your information on this, either. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I simply cannot believe that the majority of women divorcees are golddiggers, or unworthy parents. Even if this WERE the case, you're still proving my point that the assumption is that women are natural child rearers, and therefore get custody, even if it's not the right decision for the child. You're proving my point that patriarchy damages, absolutely.

Your second point is that A) It's ok to presume women are natural caregivers (it isn't), and B) Men should therefore be presumed to be better businessmen (they already are). Again, you're making incredibly sexist arguments, and proving my point, perfectly.

I don't need you to cite your sources, but you can't throw out blatantly incorrect statements, such as, "Women are employed more than men" without offering some kind of evidence. You pulled that statement out of your ass, it was wrong, and I called you out on it.

My journeys through university libraries have yet to yield row upon row of thesis' on the plight of the man. Usually, people will write their thesis based on facts, information, and provable concepts. While I am certain people have written their thesis on how much better they feel women have it than men (sometimes people like to take the opposite side of an argument to try and wrangle up interest), this is far from proof that women have it great, and men have the short end of the stick.

Your opinion on domestic violence is apt; all domestic violence is wrong. However, you added that percentages don't matter. I take issue with this concept on the sole basis that over 99% of spousal abuse is man on women violence. If it were closer to 50/50, or even the stupid "1 in 3 are women on man violence" lie Rush Limbaugh has somehow perpetrated, I might be more inclined to agree that the stats aren't important.

The issue here is men. Men can't seem to take responsibility for our own gender. Violent crimes. Rape. Abuse. Prejudice. Racism. Sexism. Gun deaths. Thefts. Drug dealing. Pimping. These, and many others, are by and large the crimes of men. There is CLEARLY something wrong with the way men are relating to the world around them. Why can't we just accept that, address the issue, and move on? Why do we have to deal with men constantly complaining about how "well" women have it, while they themselves are STILL the common element in a VAST quantity of todays issues? (Perfect example: blaming rape victims for being raped. This works under the assumption that men just RAPE, and we can't be held responsible for RAPING another HUMAN BEING, because it's just what we do! "She shouldn't have worn an attractive outfit at a BAR! How could I NOT rape her?!")

You, my friend, are a perfect example of this. You can't see the forest for the trees. You're so caught up in trying to feel bad for yourself, that you can't see reality for what it is. Personally, I think the most threatening epidemic in modern society is ignorance. Ignorance has become far too acceptable, and we are seeing the effects of it in your statements.

Seriously. You're a man. You're fine. No one is going to take away your rights. No one is going to make life hell for you. If anything, things are just going to get better and better for you, because (and here's the kicker) almost all major decision makers in this world are MEN.

TL;DR everything is the fault of men!

Why don't you castrate yourself if you hate your own sex so much.

Btw about the part i bolded. here's a little source to show you how much you're speaking out of your selfhating ass. http://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/res/r512.html

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Simulacrum

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Being male is suffering.

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@durden77 said:

@DarkbeatDK said:

@ReaganStein said:

No Caption Provided

"Please don't use my sexy cleavage shot that I myself use on my public Twitter profile to illustrate my complaints about sexy cleavage statues. Because that might make me look like a hypocrite."

LOL

I don't think that's what she's saying. I think she's saying whoever chose her picture to use for this article, (I'd have to imagine it's Patrick) assumed her picture for her. Probably thinking her twitter picture with "OH NO CLEAVAGE!!" would bring down the article.

That's pretty gross on GB's side, actually. Not hers. Most of the other ladies on here just have their Twitter pic repped. I'm sure it made her feel pretty dumb when she realized GB didn't like her default pic because how it works with the article, and then didn't even ask her for another one and just picked one for her.

Kind of weird assuming choices for women in an article that's supposed to be about female strength.

They changed the picture after she complained.

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@shiggity_shwa: He never said that ALL women are gold diggers. He said IF these women were gold diggers, then they don't deserve any sympathy. And there were numerous cases where that happened. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens enough to be a problem.

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How, for all that is holy, can anyone still give a shit about this fucking non-issue!? GB grows more sensationalist every fucking day I swear..

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I have seen worse things. There will always be a market for sex and violence. That said I doubt a ton of these will sell, even with all this nice publicity. I wouldn't buy it anyway. It exists. Whatever.

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Reading some of the comments I wasn't sure if I was reading GB comments or /r/MensRights.

Apparently there's some overlap, still.

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@dreffen: Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everyone agrees with you and they aren't invaders from other sites.

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@ThaKakarot said:

@shiggity_shwa said:

Your description of a woman who gets custody of her child is a "lousy golddigger" that "just wants money." I agree one hundred percent that unworthy people should not get custody of their child over a better candidate, but surely you can see how your jumping to the conclusion that all these women are selfish golddiggers is unfair, biased, and sexist. I'm not sure where you're getting your information on this, either. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I simply cannot believe that the majority of women divorcees are golddiggers, or unworthy parents. Even if this WERE the case, you're still proving my point that the assumption is that women are natural child rearers, and therefore get custody, even if it's not the right decision for the child. You're proving my point that patriarchy damages, absolutely.

Your second point is that A) It's ok to presume women are natural caregivers (it isn't), and B) Men should therefore be presumed to be better businessmen (they already are). Again, you're making incredibly sexist arguments, and proving my point, perfectly.

I don't need you to cite your sources, but you can't throw out blatantly incorrect statements, such as, "Women are employed more than men" without offering some kind of evidence. You pulled that statement out of your ass, it was wrong, and I called you out on it.

My journeys through university libraries have yet to yield row upon row of thesis' on the plight of the man. Usually, people will write their thesis based on facts, information, and provable concepts. While I am certain people have written their thesis on how much better they feel women have it than men (sometimes people like to take the opposite side of an argument to try and wrangle up interest), this is far from proof that women have it great, and men have the short end of the stick.

Your opinion on domestic violence is apt; all domestic violence is wrong. However, you added that percentages don't matter. I take issue with this concept on the sole basis that over 99% of spousal abuse is man on women violence. If it were closer to 50/50, or even the stupid "1 in 3 are women on man violence" lie Rush Limbaugh has somehow perpetrated, I might be more inclined to agree that the stats aren't important.

The issue here is men. Men can't seem to take responsibility for our own gender. Violent crimes. Rape. Abuse. Prejudice. Racism. Sexism. Gun deaths. Thefts. Drug dealing. Pimping. These, and many others, are by and large the crimes of men. There is CLEARLY something wrong with the way men are relating to the world around them. Why can't we just accept that, address the issue, and move on? Why do we have to deal with men constantly complaining about how "well" women have it, while they themselves are STILL the common element in a VAST quantity of todays issues? (Perfect example: blaming rape victims for being raped. This works under the assumption that men just RAPE, and we can't be held responsible for RAPING another HUMAN BEING, because it's just what we do! "She shouldn't have worn an attractive outfit at a BAR! How could I NOT rape her?!")

You, my friend, are a perfect example of this. You can't see the forest for the trees. You're so caught up in trying to feel bad for yourself, that you can't see reality for what it is. Personally, I think the most threatening epidemic in modern society is ignorance. Ignorance has become far too acceptable, and we are seeing the effects of it in your statements.

Seriously. You're a man. You're fine. No one is going to take away your rights. No one is going to make life hell for you. If anything, things are just going to get better and better for you, because (and here's the kicker) almost all major decision makers in this world are MEN.

TL;DR everything is the fault of men!

Why don't you castrate yourself if you hate your own sex so much.

Btw about the part i bolded. here's a little source to show you how much you're speaking out of your selfhating ass. http://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/res/r512.html

HAHHAHAHAHAHAH