I can't be bothered to log into Battlelog. I'm playing BF4 on PS4 for Pete's sake. Why it doesn't properly log me into the Battlelog website upon starting the game, like it does on PC, is beyond me. I'll just dump it here then.

• Scout Choppers are OP. The kind of OP I can get behind.
• Too much lock-on AA, and no design in place to allow for skill to overcome it. A decent *Under the Radar* mechanic, preventing all lock-on attempts when flying low enough, would go a long way to making flying more fun, regardless of aircraft type.
• Attack and Transport Choppers getting kicked out of the sky by AA-rockets is beyond retarded. 90% of my deaths in Attack Choppers come from being kicked into obstacles, or just helplessly dropping out of the sky because of it. For the most parts, this doesn't even net the shooter a kill counter. Utterly pointless.
• Active rockets should not be capable of mobility kills (or kicking).
• Rocket cooldown increase for AA vehicles would make a lot of sense to me.
• Why no rearview in vehicles?
• Why no full map view while deployed? Edit: Just figured out that I can switch out the Scoreboard with the Overview Map (via L1/R1).
• Commander is bollocks. I refrain from joining servers with Commanders, especially those with only one Commander. Next time, give Commander-like powers to kits and emplacement again, like in Bad Company, or empower Squad Leaders.
• Squadsize is 5. Total playercount is 64. Does not compute.
• Why the arbitrary increase of playercount for Rush? 32 player Rush is so much worse than 24 player Rush. Often congested, seldomly works all too well. Feels like not much thought and effort went into it making it fit, for example an increase of spawntimers and Attacker Ticketcounts would go a long way.
• HUD still obstructive and full of unnecessary clutter. Majority of HUD should be a toggle, like nametags - the worst offender. Try Silhuettes next time.
• Why don't DMRs have longrange scopes? They need a buff, and that's what makes most sense to me.
• Find a way to make shotguns more reliable. Also - a slight increase in onehit-kill distance would be nice for buckshot and flechettes. Like 5-10 more meters depending on gun and pellet count.
• UCAV would be a lot of fun. The 5 minutes cooldown ruins it though. Reduce damage to 80 on infantry, 45 to light vehicles, and 33 to heavy armor, give us 2-3 of 'em, on a 10-20 second replenish cooldown. Something like that.
• I feel like jets deserve a kind of ADS-like zoom for aiming. Also the HUD clutter makes aiming at those distances and speeds that jets go rather unpractical and unfun. I don't think I've ever killed an infantryman with a Stealth Jet... for shame!
• Fix the damned pick up weapons! You know, so that we can actually pick them up without dropping it again... over and over.
• Oh, server-side lag since 3 months during peak hours is rather disappointing (PS4).

Finally, I want to make a case for OP stuff. I feel like Battlefield is most fun, when it's a *Pyramid of OP*, rather than this rock-paper-scissors-cancelling-each-other-out balance that has been all the rage since BF3. That said, I believe that skill should be able to beat anything. Any loadout infantryman should be able to damage anything on the field, even if just minutely. If I empty a magazine's worth of assault rifle ammuntion into a Scout Chopper, I believe that should put that vehicle in minor problems. Like taking off 15%-20% of total durability. Or that a random bullet of my handgun could be the end of a smoldering jet, netting me the kill counter. Why? Because that's a recipe for bad assery. The current rock-paper-scissors balance often feels like cock-blockery.

Feel free to dump your feedback and suggestions here too. Lets tell them!

Edit: Just figured out that I can switch out the Scoreboard with the Overview Map (via L1/R1).

Because gamer logic: more = better, remember Titanfall "controversie" ?

but yeah 32 is making me not play Rush on BF4, they also need to fix some maps, The resort map and Parcel are really hard for attackers.

I agree on most of this.

Dear DICE,

Forget Battlefield 4, work on Mirror's Edge.

Yours sincerly,
BeachThunder

I can't say I agree with most of this. I think the commander stuff is fine. I think the HUD is fine. And a lot of that just seems like your whining because people use lock on AA alot and you dont have the proper skill to avoid it.

My only actual suggestion would be higher ticket counts in Air Superiority.

I think they should actually update the patch notes on the ps4 so there's some way to see what they're fixing without giving traffic to their website.

I think it's pretty terrible that the most broken launch game only updated its patch notes to tell people that China Rising was patched in.

Maybe they didn't have enough space to list everything so they just condensed it to 3 lines of the most vague/all encompassing notes possible.

@beachthunder: Yup, i can get behind this.

I also like the idea of squad leaders getting more power, because that could encourage players to get more active as squad leaders and reward the already good leaders with even more power. Also it would help with situation when there isn't a commander active, if leaders could initiate some of the commander powers by themselves.

It seems every time I go up against a shotgun, I lose. I'm not criticizing your inclusion of a shotgun buff, but it's just funny that from my perspective, I always get owned by shot gunners.

I'm not quite sure that I get the analogy of the 'pyramid' of OP. Does that imply one certain combo beats everything?

@ericdrum: I just want to point out... when you kill a shotgunner at a range he can't hit you from, do you know you've killed a shotgunner?

If DICE is looking for direction, just look at Battlefield 2.

Sincerely,

Someone who has played more BF2 in the last month than BF3 or BF4 combined...

yes clearly the superior game

Dear Dice. Battlefield Bad Company 3. Thank you.

Even the multiplayer in those games was better than this and that was mostly made with the limitation of consoles in mind. Forget 64 players. 24 worked just fine. And I don't know if it's just me, but the environmental destruction was better than 4... maybe? I also really liked Rush in Bad Company 2. I just can't get into it this time around.

And to repeat what others have said, more players is not always better (thank you Titanfall) and I agree!

I haven't played 4 in a little bit. Actually about to hop online now (Xbox One) and I think it's definitely better than launch. It's more stable, things are working out a bit more but man, what a shit show.

Excuse me? You'll have to explain exactly what kind of skill you're talking of. Because from where I'm sitting, I have a cooldown on countermeasures (which aren't 100% reliable to begin with, and quite often shit's synchronized in a way that you'll get hit pretty much the moment it starts beeping), which give me a small timeframe to either go after whoever's locking onto me, or to turn tail and head for cover. Once the cooldown is up, and you haven't broken line-of-sight or killed the shooter (assuming it's only one), you're toast. There's nothing you can do, in terms of flying skills. Unless you have repairing passengers, usually a single AA hit from a infantryman is all it takes, since mobiltiy kills keep the pilot from getting away, and there isn't a cooldown on handheld AA launchers, other than the brief reload time. Flying super-low and hoping the rocket hits random geometry is the highest of feelings. A hail mary at best.

With active seeking rockets without lock-on requirement, that can easily be successfully employed across entire maps from out-of-bounds AA vehicles, and stealth jets that can do the same, as well as any engineer being capable of equipping lock-on AA - it's a simple numbers game, and once a certain treshhold is reached, flying choppers is barely viable. Granted, it's not every room I join, but many rooms are laughably unfun to fly in (and such rooms become much more common as the playerbase unlocks more loadout options). Especially if we're talking Attack and Transport Choppers, which are death traps due to the kicking effect of active rockets (and sometimes regular AA rockets too). Many Conquest 64 map, especially those with mobile AA and little cover on them, really prove my point. Such as Lancang Dam and Altai Range.

What say you to the kicking effect of active rockets, causing helicopters and sometimes even planes to just randomly fall out of the sky, as if they hit some solid object mid air? That's bullshit of the highest magnitude.

I've got like 40 service stars on the Scout Chopper. And between 5 and 10 on the other aircraft. Tousands of kills and countless hours of fly time. AA versus choppers is mostly a numbers game, where-in there is a treshhold were flying is no longer viable, regardless of skill level (and believe me, my skill level in choppers is above and beyond your average pilot). Sad thing is, it doesn't really take much more than two infantrymen willing to equip AA launchers, operating in close vercinity to reach that threshhold.

Then again, I think you're either trolling, or aren't much of a pilot yourself, so you wouldn't know. Guess what, being merely willing to shoot down a chopper is all it takes. I do it all the time. I see a decent flyer thinking he's hot shit. I equip a launcher. Lock-on. And I've won. 99.9% of the time. All it takes is the will to shut down a flyer, no skill required. Zero skillceiling for AA launchers. An insanely small window of opportunity for flyers to actively combat the threat, with retreat being often the only viable option (and even that is something that only the fewest know how to do). Some maps and modes are of course worse than others, due to lack of obstructions of line of sight and team-sizes and vehicles spawns, but overall lock-on AA balance is in place to protect all the no-flyer infantray peasants from ace pilots, to the point of making the air-game quite useless at times.

Hmmm. Wow. Speaking of which. Just went to go play Battlefield 4. Tried to start it, crash to dashboard. Restarted the console. Nothing. Gonna uninstall it and re-install.

Well then...

Haven't had any problems or crashes with the PS4 version in months, aside from some serverside lag during peak hours, and the aggravatingly buggy pick-up weapons (nigh impossible to actually pick up).

I wasn't clear. It's one on one matchups when we engage each other. I'm just saying that if I'm spraying a high ROF PDW, down a short stairwell where I know a guy is coming at me (because someone spotted him) and he has a shottie, I lose. I'm not saying that a shotgun wielder doesn't have his own problems to deal with or that's some kind of uber weapon that has no counter or whatever. I'm just saying I can't beat them one on one in tight spaces when I feel like I'm in a situation(like knowing he's coming my way) where I have a marked advantage. I may just be too old and slow. It's an observation that I'm making, not a fact of imbalance or injustice.

I've been running a lot with the UTS-15 in Conquest 64 lately. Shotguns aren't really competitive for the most parts, they're just super badass to wield, and foster smart and careful play. I mean they're great in their one-hit-kill range (under 10 meters, I'd say), but due to the generally low rate of fire, they are extremely unreliable, respectively do not tolerate the slightest mistakes. Going ADS often seems to yield wrong results too, like shots not registering at all.

Highly recommend running with Flechette ammo and a full choke. With careful aim, they're reasonably effective up to 20 meters. Nothing quite like putting a dude in his place with a shotty.

@seppli: As an above average pilot, on average, how long are you in the various aircraft before you are taken down?

@itwastuesday said:

Oh, you mean the thing patched in Feb, 2010?

thanks for playing.

p.s. bf2 has its warts, but i love it regardless. No game is without flaw, and arguably, the flaw of BF3/4 is stale, COD-style gameplay :-)

The AA part is just not true. For an average player like me it's impossible to keep an attack-helicopter in the air. I have almost 1500 kill with the scout helicopter. It does decent damage and it's (on most maps) possible to avoid some if the incomming rockets because it's pretty fast and can be repaired mid-air. The attack helicopter is slow and can't hold people to repair it which makes it impossible to keep it in the air and do any decent ammount of damage to the enemy if the other team is even remotely capable. The AA-Tank is crazy effective on a laughable range with insane reload times for the rockets ... plus the active radar missles are really hard to avoid since you get no lock on sound which lowers the time to react to almost 0.

And thats just the AA ... add to that all the other shit chopper pilots have flying at them and using the attack helicopter becomes pointless for most people. I'm know there are probably people out there who are crazy effective with it but an average to maybe okish player like me can't use this vehicle. Some of the stuff OP suggested would help with that.

On average? Dunno. A couple of minutes on average I guess. Quite often I keep the Scout Chopper for like 20+ kills. You know, until enough people are pissed enough to equip AA launchers. Every now and then I play flawless rounds in Scout Choppers, though mostly in Rush mode. (all I really play is Rush and Conquest 64).

I'm merely okay in jets. I can't stand dogfighting, which I find a waste of time. Still think the afterburner should be much more powerful (like triple speed), but time limited (overheating mechanic), and whilst it's employed, weapons cannot be used. You know, to hopefully make dogfights about close proximity high risk chases, rather than the unending loop-de-looping in the skies. That said, I find it fairly easy to keep jets in the air forever, and the Attack Jet is quite the killer machine. I don't quite get the Stealth Jets, with practically zero ways to influence the overall game, being restricted to AA-duty mostly - so boring, and the SPM is abysmal.

I think choppers are just fine/a tiny bit OP. Its all in the skill of the pilot, as it should be. I've seen good pilots dominate maps, especially in scout helos like the Little Bird that are agile enough to dip behind geometry and make it nearly impossible to get a full lock from portable AA. The folks who are saying that AA is OP sound like they expect a rotary-wing aircraft to be flying tanks that can just hover over a battlefield raining death from above with impunity. Welcome to the world of flying one of the most vulnerable vehicles on earth.

@magzine: An interesting thought just popped into my head with this talk about Battlefield 2. I've never played it but that's not the point. My ponder is this: is it all based in nostalgia? I always think about this when considering my love for old games and how new ones just don't live up to it.

When all is said and patched, all fixed, will the younger players remember Battlefield 3 or 4 like you guys remember the great days of 2? Like with me nothing has been good as COD4. All jokes aside, that may be true but maybe it's because I remember I had a lot more fun and good times with it. I spent more time with that than any other games. Had it's problems? Oh yeah! But still.

Halo 2 and 3. I loved those games to death! Still my favourite. Reach and Halo 4 didn't do nearly as much for me. GTA Vice City. I was a lot younger, I played that game excessively. The songs, the 80's! Because I was younger, I didn't play as many games. Not like I do today. I move on to the next game a lot faster. It wasn't until GTAV that I had to really re think which GTA was my favourite.

Is it all nostalgia? I wonder. Doesn't the state of Battlefield 4 should be excused. No game should launch like that!

• I actually like the fly below radar mechanic or something similarly skill-based as a counter lock-on AA mechanic since it'll also mean that as a counter to that you'll just use an RPG and rely on a skill shot for even a higher pay-off.

The biggest mistake DICE made was moving away from the direction they were heading with the Bad Company series. I know many hardcore Battlefield fans will probably disagree, but in many ways the BC games were better balanced and more accessible. Not to mention both BC games had less problems than Battlefield 2, 3 and 4. I'm not saying they were perfect, but until Battlefield 3 I felt DICE was heading in a better direction. The shit-show that is Battlefield 4 mostly also happened during the launch of Battlefield 3, which is one of the reasons I didn't jump in this time. I'm not interested in the same crap every release.

I know none of that makes any difference to Battlefield 4, but I honestly think EA and DICE need to shirk this current trend and go the Bad Company direction.

@gaspower: I'm okay with this sort of fix. For one - my standard kit is packing the SRAW so I'm not radar-locking most of the time anyway and second - it doesn't just increase the odds of an RPG strike, but also the odds of pilot-sniping with rifles which, for my money, is the most satisfying feeling in the whole game.

@oginor: @gaspower:

Let's not forget tanks, which have a relatively easy time to shoot down low flying choppers, especially if they're using SABOT rounds.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of BF:BC 2 Vietnam's AA-concept. Namely small arms damage versus choppers. Nothing quite as badass as coming over a hilltop with a LMG underarm and turning a chopper into Swiss cheese like Rambo. These days, the best you can hope for shooting at choppers with small arms, is to randomly hit the pilot in the head enough.

@seppli: And you could still load out Zunis on your AA if you were facing a lot of low-flying pilots.

I took out a scout heli pilot on Flood Zone last night with a carbine...the chopper came to rest gently on the edge of a building for a split-second before tumbling off the edge and exploding...THAT was satisfying.

Indeed. Rare but awesome. I once ran trice past a Scout Chopper which was coming straight at me with standard miniguns and poor aim, hipfiring my LMG at the pilot. Jousting of sorts. Eventually I died... and he died at the same moment. That was crazy cool. Comedy gold.

The problem is with attack helicopters, not scout helicopters. SH are agile and fast, if you fly smart you can avoid a lot of damage. But AH are just not nimble enough. There is almost nothing you can do to avoid incomming fire. Keep in mind ... more often than not you have several rockets flying at you as soon as you lift off ... literaly ... the second you are in the air you have shit flying at you from all directions. It's hard enough to avoid all of that in a fast helicopter, in a slow one it becomes close to impossible.

Unhappy PC gamer here:

Double KO's are my biggest complaint. This never happened in Battlefield 3, or any other FPS when explosive weapons were not involved.

When two players kill each other at the same time, this implies there is a lot of client-side prediction happening and the system freaks out when each client says that the other player died. Instead of the server determining who got the kill shot first, it just kills off both players. This predictive netcode also results in a lot of bullshit like dying when you have moved into full cover despite having a ping in the low 30's because the sniper with a high ping disagrees with you.

I can only assume the wonky netcode is an effort to reduce the amount of server overhead that is needed for 64 players. I hate to suggest it, but it's probably because the same netcode is used for the console versions. They need to have incredibly efficient servers on the console releases because EA (or Microsoft) is hosting everything instead of relying on private server hosts.

This brings about another problem... the maps don't feel well suited to 64-players, it's better than BF3, but not by much. Battlefield 2 and even 1942 had very well balanced maps for the amount of players present, but in BF3 and BF4, there are severe choke points that result in a miserable experience. Dropping down to 24 players is better, but the maps pale in comparison to Bad Company 2 which had some absolutely brilliant level design that was exactly tuned to the lower player count.

I really hope they get around to making a Bad Company 3, and making it right, otherwise I'm completely done with Battlefield. It's sad to see my favorite franchise fall on its face this hard.

I'm definitely one not immune to nostalgia, but the thing about Nostalgia is that I find generally I can go and play it for a game I'm nostalgic for a little while, but not long after it's like ok I got my fix, all fine and dandy, good to relive some of those memories. And I have a lot of fond memories of BF2.

But here's the catch. I don't go back and play BF2 as a fun visit to the past, I actively prefer and play it over Battlefield 3/4. I don't think that the newest iterations are bad or unfun, I just don't think that they're as good, particularly in terms of teamwork actually required to be successful.

So, will people new to the franchise prefer battlefield 2 over 4? Probably not. Here's why:

- The maps have been condensed since 2, and BF2's lack of "spawn on any squadmember," will make new players feel that they're walking forever (they may be)

- Graphical differences, regardless if what anyone says ever, are a challenge to look past. Graphics are your primary interface to the game, so a game with next-gen graphics will obviously seem to 'play nicer' than one without. And that's fair.

- The game (BF2) isn't as rewarding. It game isn't so gamified.

Will they play BF3 and BF4 as I play 2? Maybe, depends what the future iteration of games brings. If it's even more increasingly uninspired gameplay, probably so.

This issue ties hand-in-hand with awarding games the title of "Best game of all-time,"-- it's impossible to choose this really, because different people have different experiences, and it truly is impossible to say without playing all games before. Also, systems that were once groundbreaking that helped games to earn that title probably function much better today.

For example, Ocarina of Time. It was (still is) a masterpiece, everything was perfect. Stepping out onto ginormous Hyrule field for the first time, fighting enemies with Z-targeting, and jamming along to all the music made it amazing. BUT: all of those concepts have been long since improved. Landscapes are bigger, targeting works better, and music is more grand and varied. Yet, people don't seem to enjoy many of these games as much as they did OoT. Nostalgia, or other?

Extensive patchnotes for the console versions would definitely be nice, especially when there is such a nice tab for it on a system-level on PS4. Missed opportunity.

Fired up Battlelog on the tablet to log into a server and, lo and behold, was greeted with a headline involving upcoming balancing patches. The following is directly from DICE:

UPCOMING VEHICLE TWEAKS

Aircraft and Anti-Aircraft

1) Reduced the total amount of missiles carried by the Mobile Anti-Aircraft vehicles from 6 to 4. The total carried missiles were making it impossible for helicopters to use counter measures to avoid the MAA’s attacks.

2) Reduced the velocity of the MAA’s default 20MM CANNON from 1200m/s to 800m/s to match the 30MM CANNON. This reduction reduces the distance projectiles will travel and should prevent situations where the MAA could engage enemy vehicles without leaving its protected home base. The damage of the cannons remains unchanged, and aircraft, especially helicopters, should remain wary of getting too close to a MAA.

3) Reduced the physical impact of all Anti-Aircraft missiles to prevent helicopters from flipping uncontrollably when hit. The damage values have not been changed.

4) Reduced the cone in which ACTIVE RADAR missiles search for targets, making them require a higher level of skill in predicting where a target will be when the missile is fired. The missiles were previously too easy to aim at long range, making them a guaranteed hit and a clear advantage over the other missile types.

5) Increased the direct damage done by the Attack Helicopter’s gunner cannon. The gunner will be better able to assist the pilot in taking down vehicle targets with this change.

6) Increased the direct hit damage of the Zuni Rockets for Attack Helicopters. The rate of fire of these rockets combined with their smaller magazine pool made them a poor choice over the other two rocket types.

7) Reduced the splash damage and maximum splash damage range of the Scout Helicopter 25MM CANNONS. These weapons were too effective against infantry with a higher splash, making them a clear choice over the 7.62 MINIGUNS in all combat situations. The 25MM CANNONS are intended to give the Scout Helicopter some measure of effectiveness against vehicles, at a clear trade off in effectiveness vs. infantry.

Tanks and Anti-Tank

1) Reduced the “intelligence” of the MBT LAW missiles, requiring the player to aim the missile closer to their target before the smart projectile will activate. Additionally, the MBT LAW now reloads slightly slower. This keeps the MBT LAW in its role of an easy to use, fire and forget weapon available to all Engineers, while also balancing it with the other rocket launchers in favor of skilled AT shots. Finally, a bug where the MBT LAW would pass through an ACTIVE PROTECTION shield has been fixed.

2) Fixed an issue where ACTIVE PROTECTION and the MP-APS did not properly stop 12G FRAG rounds.

3) Reduced the range where the M2 SLAM will do maximum damage to vehicles from 6M to 3M. Players will now need to be craftier when placing the M2 SLAM in order to get the full damage potential of this ambush anti vehicle weapon. This change is to primarily counter a tactic of placing 3 mines in the same spot to guarantee a kill on any vehicle passing within 6m. The range was deemed to be too large, making the M2 SLAM far superior to the M15 AT MINE.

4) Reduced the damage the STAFF shell does to all targets by 25%. This should balance the ease of use of the STAFF shell with its damage potential.

Remember to check back in the Battlefield Blog during the week for more confirmed tweaks that we have planned for Battlefield 4. Let us know what you think in the comments below.

Sounds baller! Looking forward to it.

Always wondered if the MBT LAW was meant to get through active protection. So it was a bug after all.

I just want to be able to aim/shoot with L1/R1. Kind of moronic for them to change it and not provide an option to switch back.

Took me quite awhile getting used to shooting with triggers again, after playing shooters on PS3 for so many years. Especially being a *Playstation Claw/Four Finger Stance* player. Shooting with my middle fingers was mighty awkward at first.

Still have some issues with semi-auto weapons, such as pistols and DMRs, since I tend to not completely release the trigger when I'm under duress, which leads to BF4 often not registering consecutive pulls of the trigger (guess some clever coding might alleviate this issue). Playing a lot with DMRs lately (flippin' Assignments), and I'm getting there now. Eventually you'll adapt to anything.

I'm kinda glad there isn't an option to revert back. This way, I'm forced to getting accustomed to pulling the triggers again. Despite squeezing the triggers with my middle fingers these days, it just feels more visceral and satisfying than doing it with the bumpers, even if the bumpers are actually more responsive due to less travel distance. That said, there really should be an option to switch it back.

soulja boy tell em

@seppli: I switch all my rifles over to semi-auto. I want peak responsiveness. This wouldn't even be a problem if Microsoft hadn't arbitrarily decided to call their shoulder buttons triggers back in the day. Now everybody thinks that that's how you're supposed to shoot a video game gun.

Wait, wait, wait - people use their middle finger to pull the triggers on PS controller? You don't just use your index finger to hit trigger and shoulder?

I don't, but people do different things. I only do that if I need/want to use both buttons at the same time.

@seppli: Y'all need to learn to mask yourself, son. Did it ever occur to you that maybe your tactics are flawed? You can be as skilled as you want, if you're going in at the wrong time from the wrong angle, that's still going to get you killed. Now, I think AA is in some cases a bit much. But at the same time, I'd rather this be the case than have AIR be a bit much, as it was in BF3, where you had the opposite effect. Lock on range was ridiculous, and most aircraft just had to stray out of range, maybe pop counter-measures, then just fly straight up to avoid launchers. If someone coordinates against you, that should absolutely make it harder for you to survive. And if you're constantly getting taken down by launchers, it's because you're letting them launch too many times and not backed up by someone who can spot the launch if you survive the first shot. Especially on the urban maps, it's so bloody easy to mask yourself and break lock on, you rarely have any real excuse when it comes to even letting a launch occur.

It's a gun dude. If you want responsiveness, get a PC! Gaming mice are pretttttttty responsive :D But that makes firing, for example, the big ol' revolver in BF4, a lot less satisfying.

Thanks for the response. Looking at what you said, if you as a skilled player, are dominating in the chopper like that, it seems that you are already being rewarded for your skill and I would not want to buff your abilities. If you can get 20 kills in a row in your chopper, I'd want my entire team to bust out Iglas and put you into the ground, ha ha. I think 5 average gamers who only play a few hours a week(who have not practiced for hours with wire guided missiles) should be able to choose and gang up on a chopper/vehicle and take it out. In BC2, there were some really brutal rounds when good chopper pilots would just single-handedly own an entire match of Rush. At any rate, I think we need lock on AA (or more stationary guns but not just one per mcom like on Oasis in BC2) where a few can gang up if they want to get rid of a harassing chopper pilot, but maybe tweak the damage amount. Your suggestion of letting the pilot get low and repair would probably go a long way too.

I agree that AA launcher are an easy fix to balance choppers, it's just that after the numbers of it pass a certain treshhold, the airspace is literally shut-down completely. Flying is no longer viable. There is no skill in the world that can let a pilot remain effective against 3-4 accordingly equipped Engineers. The moment you break cover, you'll be getting lit up. This is much more obvious on Rush mode, since operations there are always limited to one set of objectives, albeit it can be even worse on some specific Conquest maps, like on Lancang Dam.

This circumstance makes it flawed design in my eyes. Hence I much prefer small arms damage to balance helicopters, because even if the entire enemy team focuses on you, you can still operate to a functional degree, if you are skilled enough. BF:BC 2 Vietnam helicopters were figuratively made out of paper in the console versions. A single skilled Support kit soldier could down a chopper fairly quickly with his LMG. Only the elite few were capable of keeping their choppers in the air in this kind of environment. If you belonged to this elite circle, it was the best feeling ever.

AA launchers are apparently needed to balance-out jets. It's just BF4's jets themselves are already pretty much already cock-blocking each other, since Stealth Jets can't do anything else than hunt other aircraft, and in general, AA launchers are still a piss-poor defense against jets anyways. Making them all but obsolete in this regard. After 400 hours of total play, I can count the times encountering a dominating Attack Jet player on one hand, which only happens if Stealth Jets are used selfishly for quick transportation/flanking caps, and the AA vehicle is manned by a guy who hasn't got any interest in doing his job.

Overall, I believe unlimited handheld AA-launcher are bollocks design.

• A. We are talking helicopters, not jets.
• B. Jets in BF4 are designed to cock-block each other, since Stealth Jets are pretty much completely ineffective against ground targets, and thus are forced to hunt other aircraft full-time.
• C. AA launchers in BF3 and BF4 are a zero skill-ceiling countermeasure, to which players have unrestricted access to. In Conquest 64 a team could potentially equip 32 AA-launchers simultaneously - taking my issue with this design to its natural extreme. While jets might still be somewhat operational under such circumstances, helicopters would definitely not be (the out of bounds hovering gunner-centric/TV-missile sniping playstyle has been eradicated for BF4). The most skilled pilot in the world wouldn't remain operationally effective. Hence, it's an inherently broken design.

I am a veteran pilot and am aware of how to play properly. My skill is not on debate here. I argue the design is flawed, and skewed towards players lacking piloting skills - to appease them. Shutting down airspace requires nothing more than will these days. Skill is no longer required. In my opinion, that's detrimental to the overall gameplay experience.

Remaining an effective infantryman despite a flying terror overhead, that's much more exciting than just equipping a zero skillceiling gadget and say *Terror Be Gone*, and it's done. It' cheapening it so very much.

P.S. am I correct to assume that you haven't played BF4 yet?

So I tried to play a little bit last night and I couldn't even enter a game on ps4. It would just sit on a black screen and load endlessly. I closed the application 3 times and tried again with no luck, I was never able to play. I imagine it's because they've fucked the game up again when adding in the new maps.

Anyone else having issues with this game still? It blows my mind that even this far from launch I'm getting bouts of unplayability.

All during player appreciation month!!