In another reality Booker has yellow skin and lives in Springfield. Hey Fatty, I've got a fanfic for ya: A Fridge Too Far.

There's an entire section of the game where you help underprivileged, racial minorities take back the city from a government of race purists.

I guess there wasn't a single character that takes you aside and says "GEE BOOKER THESE PEOPLE ARE RACIST WE SHOULD STOP THEM, BECAUSE RACISM IS BAD!" but I'd like to think games shouldn't be that blunt with their storytelling.

Also it's not even time travel. But ok I get it you don't like the story in Infinite and are immune to rational discussion about it so whatever. I won't try to change your mind at this point. You're right it's all really stupid time travel bullshit and Bioshock 2 told a totally better and more comprehensive story that involved such deep themes as "save the girl" and uhh, thats it.

That's almost the same exact thing.

Are you seriously trying to argue that fighting racists is any less blunt. There isn't this profound moment where the game actually takes the time to examine and comment on racism, you are fighting racists because "racism is bad".

@lordxavierbritish: Yes it is less blunt and no it doesn't get neatly explained because it works as a backdrop for the story and isn't the central premise. I said they build worlds that involve those themes. We can both at least agree on the fact that racism is one of the themes in Bioshock Infinite.

Actually never mind. To be honest with you, I've kind of gotten lost as to what this thread is about or what your issues with the game are anymore. If it's the fact that it has a similar story to Bioshock 2 then I already talked about that. If it's just that you didn't think it was that good and are upset by others praising it then I suppose those are your personal demons you'll have to struggle with. I think Skyrim is a boring, lifeless game so I getcha man, but just like my take on Skyrim your take on Infinite is that of a minority.

@humanity: Mostly I just thought it would be funny.

I liked Bioshock 2's story more than Bioshock 1, mostly because I actually felt emotionally invested in the characters rather than playing the role of Jack the uncaring non-character, and also because unlike Bioshock 1 the story didn't take a horrible nosedive about two thirds of the way in. At the same time, by this point I accept the fact that most people are fine with marginalising it based on the climate surrounding it's release, I just think they did an extremely admirable job of picking up the pieces of the first game and doing something with it (especially with half the development time of any other Bioshock game).

BIOSHOCK INFINITE SPOILERS:

In my head, I also like to envision that the "There's always a girl and her Songbird" allusion is actually pointing towards Eleanor and Subject Delta, as they thematically fit the bill far better than just the Little Sisters and Big Daddies as a whole. Probably not the case though.

To have missed what Columbia was, the meaningful interactions of the characters and the growth they experienced, and the sadness of a world gone wrong at every turn in a new horrific fashion is to have missed what Infinite is. To boil down to, "Characters are similar, dur dur," is either a morbidly sad attempt at trolling or I pity your lack of attention to detail. Either way, that's all I will be saying in this thread.

I don't really understand why some people are bent on making others hate the game. I enjoyed it, a lot. The fact that its plot is very similar to previous games (and some specific tropes in particular) only makes it work better, if you ask me. You didn't like, I did, deal with it.

I never said I didn't like it.

None of you pay attention.

Here what Bioshock Infinite got over Bioshock 2, and single ending. 2 is too muddled with the whole choice thing that is starting to effect the game industry in a negative way. Infinite makes sure it is covering everything the players need to know so that it single ending makes a impact. It like how Walking of the Dead ended, you made all of these choices that resulted in events in the middle of the story but the ending is what it is.

I just finished it and I'll say this; the plots are supposed to be similar. Finish it and you'll understand why.

I don't understand why people are throwing the term "time travel magic around". It's not time travelling... it's dimensional travel. The proof of other dimensions (some that are almost exactly like ours and others extremely different) existing has been backed by scientists recently. Look it up.

While there are some similarities between Infinite and Bioshock 2 in their plots, I think really they both have the same major theme with the parental figures.

There are a lot of parallels between Infinite and the first game, and it was definitely intentional.

Bioshock 1 and infinite spoilers:

If we make the connection that Booker = Jack/Delta and Elizibeth=Little Sisters/Eleanor
The leader of the city turns out to be related to the protagonist, and the protagonist beats him to death. (Ryan/Comstock) The leader of the city is in a state of civil war with a group whose main enemy is stabbed to death by the daughter of the protagonist. (Fontaine/Fitzroy) I also think there are a bunch of connections between other smaller characters, like Tenenbaum and and the Luteces, who both were involved with kidnapping young girls for unethical purposes, but were trying to redeem themselves by helping the protagonist.

I think a big point of the game is that the main plot events happen in the same way in both games. It isn't that they were ripping off Bioshock 2, or that they couldn't come up with a good idea for the plot, but I thought it was pretty brilliant that they kinda hid a lot of this until the end, except for the more obvious things like the "Eleanor Lamb/Lamb of Columbia" thing. It wasn't done as some sort of writer's block cop out, whatever you think of Ken Levine, he's not dumb enough to make the Lamb/Lamb connection accidentally. I really liked how they managed to make the stories so similar while feeling different, and my favorite part of the ending was how they made it all tie together.

Also, I haven't had a lot of time to think about it, but i'd say while they addressed stuff like racism, the main theme of infinite was parenthood, which is also pretty evident in Bioshock 1 and 2.

Bioshock 2 was a good game

Bioshock and Infinite were/are damn near perfect.

Minus the whole dimensional rift and alternate realities thing yes, it was the same plot as bioshock. If you didn't notice the game even told you in certain words that it was the same story at the end. I mean really, did you think showing up at rapture was a coincidence? That said Avatar is just Pocahontas in space with blue cat girls by James Cameron's own admission so it isn't like this is the first time a regurgitated story got universal praise. Though this one is done considerably better than Avatar is... what a crap movie. Unpopular opinions!

Just wanted to clarify that i thought mirroring the plots of bioshock 1 and 2 was a great move. It gave it some closure, and some weight to the whole multiverse thing. Also, while racism and ideology don't really fit into any discussion on the ending, i still absolutely think they're a hugely important part of the themes of the game.

I personally thought the ending was incredible, and probably one of the gutsiest endings to any game i've ever played.

Goes to show that execution is everything and makes a huge difference. Also the differences in the specifics and the atmosphere are also significant.

You have to rescue a girl who's been kidnapped. It's totally the same game as Super Mario Bros.!

Well, they bring this up within the game at the end. Elizabeth literally mentions how and why there's a similarity between the three games. It gets covered in a rather cool meta sort of way.

Did you know Metal Gear Solid has the same plot as the original Metal Gear games? :O

The similarities are on purpose.

i decided to play BS2 again...its been about 4 years after all...and i forgot how much i really enjoyed this game....very underrated....ironically BSI i feel is vastly overrated....its a great game dont get me wrong....played it 3 times already and loved every bit....but its not what the hype says....and yea iv noticed after playing BS2 again....its the EXACT same story told in a different light....The father daughter aspect....this big sisters acting as songbird keeping you away...your daughter fighting by your side....Lamb being a super religious fanatic controlling a "family" (founders) to fight you off....just like comstock. you could even go so far as to say the little sisters were like the lutece twins since they took your genetic material and cloned you in the vita chambers creating the ability to keep going without consequence of dying. just like the enless realities of BSI. and at the end of both games....the only way to be truely free of the metaphorical prison youre in is....to...well.....die....it is the exact same story....but they did a great job delivering it in such a different way they almost no one noticed...like i said....still a great game....but....Ken Levine said the story was like nothing you've ever seen in a video game....and...not only has this story already been done in a video game....it was in a game in the same series....

So, what you're saying is that they're similar.
Someone should make that into a story in Bioshock 4.
You could have like "This happens in this world" and then people doing coin flips a..

Wait a minute...

Man, now I have to play Bioshock 2 again.
I really did enjoy that game

Just because there are similarities between the two games, it doesn't mean they are just as good as each other.

It sort of is? I mean, you are traveling to past/future events like crazy in that game.

You're right. Infinite wishes it played as well as 2.

It's really interesting coming back to this thread after the BioShock Infinite hype-train has died down; while at one time I was ready to say "BioShock Infinite is easily the best BioShock game", i'm replaying BioShock 2 now and I just feel like it's better on almost every level. The combat is more engaging due to the more customisable nature of your character (through various Tonics and the Research aspect), the levels are more open and built for exploration, the characters are interesting and few are as purely one-note as someone like Fink, audio-logs each telling their own cool little stories are all over the place, and there are a couple of genuinely difficult choices and revelations over the course of the game. All I can think of that BioShock Infinite got better in retrospect was the protector/protectee relationship (Subject Delta and Eleanor are considerably more flat than Book and Elizabeth).