Boss Key Productions Shuts Down Effective Immediately

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#51 Posted by MocBucket62 (2268 posts) -

That’s really unfortunate for Boss Key. Hope everyone lands on their feet soon.

Avatar image for blannir
#52 Edited by Blannir (383 posts) -
@oursin_360 said:

Are there any developers with semi celeb status that arent hated? Seems like people are going out of their way online to make cliffy look horrible for simply making a tweet about his business failing. Jumping to conclusions about the mans character and how he treats employees? Maybe john Cormack is the only one without a giant hate base at least last i remembered.

  • Hideo Kojima
  • Sid Meier
  • Will Wright
  • Tim Schafer
  • Ed Boon
  • Shigeru Miyamoto

I wouldn't consider any of these fellows hated and most seem quite nice.

Avatar image for namoo
#53 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -

@diz: Sorry was on mobile so linking aint the easiest for me, this looks pretty convincing doesn't it?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ron_lajoie/status/996093337672273920

Avatar image for oursin_360
#54 Edited by OurSin_360 (6032 posts) -

@blannir said:
@oursin_360 said:

Are there any developers with semi celeb status that arent hated? Seems like people are going out of their way online to make cliffy look horrible for simply making a tweet about his business failing. Jumping to conclusions about the mans character and how he treats employees? Maybe john Cormack is the only one without a giant hate base at least last i remembered.

  • Hideo Kojima
  • Sid Meier
  • Will Wright
  • Tim Schafer
  • Ed Boon
  • Shigeru Miyamoto

I wouldn't consider any of these fellows hated and most seem quite nice.

Good list i wasn't considering them in the equation but you are right. I would say they are all quiet and a bit understated (besides maybe tim schafer who is getting shit over his kickstarter stuff). Even kojima doesn't really say much outside of his work, maybe that's the reason?

@namoo said:

@diz: Sorry was on mobile so linking aint the easiest for me, this looks pretty convincing doesn't it?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ron_lajoie/status/996093337672273920

I see a bunch of people jumping to conclusions. I guarantee the decision to close was done the same day as the tweet but no evidence he didn't inform them first. Unless i am missing an official statement from the employee in there somewhere?

Online
Avatar image for nutter
#55 Posted by nutter (800 posts) -

@oursin_360: I bet the Oculus tech-stealing stuff helped Carmack’s hate groups bloom.

Being in the business of running a company, doing PR, sometimes releasing sub-standard products to try to survive...it’s ugly, risky, hard work.

I’d be terrified to leave my cozy desk job and take on all that risk. Risk for myself, my family, employees. I think putting yourself out there like that is admirable. And most companies fail. Most successful companies are built from the experience of folks failing repeatedly. This happens.

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#56 Posted by TravisRex (810 posts) -
Avatar image for diz
#57 Posted by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

@diz: Sorry was on mobile so linking aint the easiest for me, this looks pretty convincing doesn't it?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ron_lajoie/status/996093337672273920

No - and I find linking easier on a mobile device, personally. I'm not sure who you're trying to convince of what, either. I was pointing out your rather poor taste in insult and 3rd party outrage, on behalf of a person who's name you got wrong and whose tweet didn't even suggest what you were suggesting.

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#58 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -

@diz: If you don't see that tweet as suggesting they had no idea until the statement hit then there's nothing I can say to you then. Cliffy has a track record of being abit of an arrogant cunt so what I said doesn't really seem that far off.

Avatar image for diz
#59 Edited by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

@diz: If you don't see that tweet as suggesting they had no idea until the statement hit then there's nothing I can say to you then. Cliffy has a track record of being abit of an arrogant cunt so what I said doesn't really seem that far off.

I explained why you can not draw that inference from that tweet alone: That is unless you think it wise to constantly keep your children updated about your precarious work situation. You seem rather quick to call other people nasty names, but I think that says more about you than them.

Avatar image for travisrex
#60 Posted by TravisRex (810 posts) -
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#61 Edited by expensiveham (382 posts) -

@blannir said:

@oursin_360 said:

Are there any developers with semi celeb status that arent hated? Seems like people are going out of their way online to make cliffy look horrible for simply making a tweet about his business failing. Jumping to conclusions about the mans character and how he treats employees? Maybe john Cormack is the only one without a giant hate base at least last i remembered.

  • Hideo Kojima
  • Sid Meier
  • Will Wright
  • Tim Schafer
  • Ed Boon
  • Shigeru Miyamoto

I wouldn't consider any of these fellows hated and most seem quite nice.

There are a lot of people out there that dislike Tim Schafer and the way he runs his company (panhandling, mismanagement, etc).

EDIT: Just saw that @oursin_360 pointed this out earlier, my bad.

On topic though I really hope Cliffy just retires for good after this. Especially if it's true that his co-workers found out they were out on the street from that tweet.

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#62 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -

@diz: I'm not talking about his child's tweet I'm talking about the one I linked after your comment.. I think that's where you are having the trouble.

Avatar image for diz
#63 Edited by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

@diz: I'm not talking about his child's tweet I'm talking about the one I linked after your comment.. I think that's where you are having the trouble.

Which one, this one: "Welp, scratch that. No female ever :("?

Please do explain!

Avatar image for namoo
#64 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -

@diz said:
@namoo said:

@diz: I'm not talking about his child's tweet I'm talking about the one I linked after your comment.. I think that's where you are having the trouble.

Which one, this one: "Welp, scratch that. No female ever :("?

Please do explain!

No Caption Provided

Now I'm home I can properly inset it. Couple this with RON posting patchnotes a few hours before this and it sure doesn't look like they had any idea what was coming.

Avatar image for oursin_360
#65 Posted by OurSin_360 (6032 posts) -

@nutter said:

@oursin_360: I bet the Oculus tech-stealing stuff helped Carmack’s hate groups bloom.

Being in the business of running a company, doing PR, sometimes releasing sub-standard products to try to survive...it’s ugly, risky, hard work.

I’d be terrified to leave my cozy desk job and take on all that risk. Risk for myself, my family, employees. I think putting yourself out there like that is admirable. And most companies fail. Most successful companies are built from the experience of folks failing repeatedly. This happens.

yeah, people really really don't get how big a risk doing this is

Online
Avatar image for diz
#66 Edited by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:
@diz said:
@namoo said:

@diz: I'm not talking about his child's tweet I'm talking about the one I linked after your comment.. I think that's where you are having the trouble.

Which one, this one: "Welp, scratch that. No female ever :("?

Please do explain!

No Caption Provided

Now I'm home I can properly inset it. Couple this with RON posting patchnotes a few hours before this and it sure doesn't look like they had any idea what was coming.

And that makes Cliff Bleszinski a total piece of s*** and arrogant c*** how? How did adding another assumed insult - out of the air - in any way justify this new one (unless you think his track record of being an arrogant c*** is enough to make him guilty of being a total piece of s***)? I still don't understand how you can read so much into this. What makes you want to publicly defame him, as you have done twice, over someone whose name you couldn't even get right?

Avatar image for namoo
#67 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -
@diz said:
@namoo said:
@diz said:
@namoo said:

@diz: I'm not talking about his child's tweet I'm talking about the one I linked after your comment.. I think that's where you are having the trouble.

Which one, this one: "Welp, scratch that. No female ever :("?

Please do explain!

No Caption Provided

Now I'm home I can properly inset it. Couple this with RON posting patchnotes a few hours before this and it sure doesn't look like they had any idea what was coming.

And that makes Cliff Bleszinski a total piece of s*** and arrogant c*** how? How did adding another assumed insult - out of the air - in any way justify this new one (unless you think his track record of being an arrogant c*** is enough to make him guilty of being a total piece of s***)? I still don't understand how you can read so much into this. What makes you want to publicly defame him, as you have done twice, over someone whose name you couldn't even get right?

Cliffy is that you? Using a few colourful descriptors isn't "publicly defaming" someone dude. I got the guys name wrong in my first post as I made it at 4am right before I fell asleep. From the available information from RON's twitter it certainly looks to me that the poor guy didn't know what was coming. This isn't a court of law. I don't have to provide absolute proof of my assertion. This is a poorly trafficked videogame forum and I'm saying it as I see's it.

Avatar image for diz
#68 Edited by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

Cliffy is that you? Using a few colourful descriptors isn't "publicly defaming" someone dude. I got the guys name wrong in my first post as I made it at 4am right before I fell asleep. From the available information from RON's twitter it certainly looks to me that the poor guy didn't know what was coming. This isn't a court of law. I don't have to provide absolute proof of my assertion. This is a poorly trafficked videogame forum and I'm saying it as I see's it.

Would you be as comfortable telling Cliffy to his face? I think you'll find "defaming" fits the definition perfectly, matey! This "poorly trafficked videogame forum" is publicly available and will undoubtedly be archived and searchable for years to come. The notions of sending things from mobile devices just before you were going to sleep might seem to excuse, but for me they beg the question "why do it?" even more, since those obstacles would serve to inhibit rather than enable. I was only curious about your vitriol and your evasions have only made me curiouser. You're not Jon, are you?

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#69 Edited by Namoo (102 posts) -

@diz: I mean I've explained several times now why I think Cliff is a shitty person for possibly letting his staff know they were jobless through twitter. You can keep trying to dig into my psyche all you want for what you'd deem the real reason for my comment. Like for real what's your deal here?

Avatar image for diz
#70 Edited by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

@diz: I mean I've explained several times now why I think Cliff is a shitty person for possibly letting his staff know they were jobless through twitter. You can keep trying to dig into my psyche all you want for what you'd deem the real reason for my comment. Like for real what's your deal here?

"possibly"...

Avatar image for namoo
#71 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -

@namoo said:

Well it looks like cliffy is a total piece of shit. Seems the Twitter post was the first the boss key employees knew of what was happening if Jon Lajoie's Twitter is to be believed.

@diz

It's been my position all along fella.

Avatar image for diz
#72 Posted by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

@namoo said:

Well it looks like cliffy is a total piece of shit. Seems the Twitter post was the first the boss key employees knew of what was happening if Jon Lajoie's Twitter is to be believed.

@diz

It's been my position all along fella.

I know!

Avatar image for namoo
#73 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -

@diz: You are just trolling me at this point aren't you. : /

Avatar image for diz
#74 Posted by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

@diz: You are just trolling me at this point aren't you. : /

Not at this point. Your skills are wasted on a site like this. Why not go tell Cliff to his face?

Avatar image for namoo
#75 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -

@diz: So do you have anything else to add to my speculation supported by shaky evidence or are you just going to continue with the digs and antagonist remarks that have nothing to do with Big Cliff and his poor HR practices?

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#76 Posted by steveurkel (1125 posts) -

I was in the Lawbreakers beta and that game would have been fine if they stripped out the low gravity facing worlds bullshit and also stripped out the powers. If it was just unreal tournament reskinned with new characters the game would have been successful. There is still a huge amount of potential to make a REALLY good multiplayer arena shooter and people are fucking it up left and right. I won't even go into a million word rant about how Bethesda fucked up with Quake Champions (same deal, but on a much larger scale than Lawbreakers since they thought we wanted to wait 3-4 minutes in between matches ALSO ... yay for quick matches and not dedicated servers!). Honestly the look of Lawbreakers and the weapons were alright but it was the stupid gimmick low gravity, TERRIBLE map design (to cater to giant bounding morons nearly impossible to hit due to their gimmick powers), and the stupid attitude of the whole thing. It REEKED of Cliffy B's personality ... lets make loot crates have SHOE PRINTS because you got your ASS KICKED. If Cliffy B wasn't spending the entirety of his career bragging about the women he sleeps with and how much money he makes this would have been a more devastating situation but clearly he didn't inform some of his staff which is a dick move. I know there is an Unreal Tournament being made at Epic but it is so far on the back burner (and it is just a remake of UT 99, and is also available so I don't even know how much more they plan to do with it) but that is a game franchise that could be very successful in the right hands but Cliffy B just reskinned Gears of War aesthetic, threw a bunch of gimmicks and didn't listen to the community. People complained endlessly on the beta forums asking for changes to the core gameplay and feel of the game saying it just didn't feel right and yet they didn't change anything and pushed farther into the gimmicks. Not much needs to be said about Radical Heights, that was just the writing on the wall. I wish them all luck but Cliffy needs to not let his ego and confidence overshadow the reality of video game development.

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#77 Posted by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

@diz: So do you have anything else to add to my speculation supported by shaky evidence or are you just going to continue with the digs and antagonist remarks that have nothing to do with Big Cliff and his poor HR practices?

I wouldn't wish to add to your speculation - I thought I was trying to detract from it: There are a number of reasons why the announcement could have been made too quickly, aside from purposeful nastiness from Cliff Bleszinski. I don't mind about the speculation though; it's just the rather quick presumption of "total piece of s***" and "arrogant c***hood" I was trying to focus on. That, along with my lampooning the faux-rage on behalf someone who's name you couldn't even get right, then the denial that you even did defame Cliff. So I think you have more work to do here, rather than I.

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#78 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -

@diz: Arrogant cunt was for his general behavior over the past ten or so years. I've not speculated on his motives for any of this but if his employees first knew about being unemployed by his statement to the wide world on twitter then that would certainly qualify him being a piece of shit. You really cannot let me making an error when I was practically asleep go can you? R O N

Avatar image for diz
#79 Edited by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

@diz: Arrogant cunt was for his general behavior over the past ten or so years. I've not speculated on his motives for any of this but if his employees first knew about being unemployed by his statement to the wide world on twitter then that would certainly qualify him being a piece of shit. You really cannot let me making an error when I was practically asleep go can you? R O N

Sorry, I should have known you were about to drop off.

Good luck in your approach to life!

Avatar image for vamino
#80 Posted by Vamino (278 posts) -

I'm no fan of Cliff, but you guys are definitely wrong about him informing the staff by tweet. This makes it clear:

That's in response to someone asking is he learnt that Boss Key was shutting down from a meeting or tweet.

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#81 Posted by Namoo (102 posts) -

@vamino: I rescind my speculation and piece of shit comment then. If he ever decides to come back to games he should probably just work under somebody instead of being a lead. He did good shit when he made maps. Letting raw unfiltered Cliff out there didn't really work out for anybody.

Avatar image for sweep
#82 Posted by Sweep (10422 posts) -

To be honest the more I learn about Cliffy B, the more interviews and coverage I read of his ideas and general approach to game development, the less I respect him. He doesn't seem like a smart man, he seems like a guy who got lucky a couple of times and doesn't really understand why but has somehow managed to make a career from it. A great example of this is one of his tweets from today:

Which sounds like he's mindlessly smashing together buzzwords.

It makes me wonder if there's a support group for bitter old game designers who don't understand why people don't like their creatively bankrupt ideas, or does Cliffy B just meet up with David Jaffe for drinks once a week to bitch about millennials?

Moderator
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#83 Edited by BrunoTheThird (510 posts) -

Minus the zombies, those ideas could work extremely well together. I would love to play a multiplayer game with ninjas on dragons, personally. If Platinum came out with an idea like that, no one would be so critical, but people really hate this man. At worst it just comes across like something you'd find scribbled in my journal in high school, ha. Sometimes that really doesn't work out (Drawn to Death, eep), but it could've been great.

The guy has headed some really stellar projects, but BossKey made a bad decision by making Lawbreakers its first one, IMO. It was a fatal move in that kind of saturated market for that genre, as was Rad Heights for the same exact fatal reason (again, IMO). I personally find retroactively insulting someone's hits -- or the talents needed to craft them, more specifically -- a bit petty. Some people just have really cool ideas sometimes, and channel it into their projects extremely well if their team is on the same page, the market has a clear space for it, and the cards fall into place, and I'm sure some luck is involved, but I think he knew what he was doing. Those positive results just didn't quite get there with this studio. He is definitely responsible for it, not because he wasn't a smart game designer, but because he chased the success of other games (Overwatch and PUBG).

All subjective of course, I've never met him. I do quite like him, though, purely as an interesting character.

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#84 Posted by dudeglove (13323 posts) -

@sweep said:

It makes me wonder if there's a support group for bitter old game designers who don't understand why people don't like their creatively bankrupt ideas

Twitter

Avatar image for diz
#85 Posted by diz (1390 posts) -

@namoo said:

@vamino: I rescind my speculation and piece of shit comment then. If he ever decides to come back to games he should probably just work under somebody instead of being a lead. He did good shit when he made maps. Letting raw unfiltered Cliff out there didn't really work out for anybody.

Are you sure? You know this "Jon" guy probably works for him, or something (- biased!). But I suppose if you'd like Cliff to follow your life advice, it is best not to call him names too, so good decision, probably! (Although remember Cliff worked for Nexon until they pulled his funding).

Avatar image for mrhadouken
#86 Posted by MrHadouken (348 posts) -

That really sucks, wonder if he’ll ever come back?

Avatar image for shaggydude
#87 Posted by ShaggyDude (244 posts) -

@oursin_360: Ed Boon?

I can't help but agree with a lot of people in this thread, it's sad to see happen but it was always a possibility this would all crash and burn. It's weird if you came up during Unreal Tournament and Gears because Cliffy was the poster boy for a modder becoming a big time game developer. If anything I wonder if Brendan Greene is watching BossKey go boom and writing some Norm Macdonald-styled notes to self.

Note to self: Don't step to Overwatch!

Avatar image for sarahsdad
#88 Posted by sarahsdad (1336 posts) -

Does this make Cliffy the next John Romero?

Avatar image for xolare
#89 Posted by xolare (1374 posts) -

Does this make Cliffy the next John Romero?

Well Cliffy's yet to make me his bitch so no

Avatar image for nutter
#90 Edited by nutter (800 posts) -

@brunothethird: Yeah, zombies don’t mash well with the rest of the concept, but the idea of an airship that launches dragons as aircraft with ninjas as pilots could be cool.

I’m thinking the mechanics of the big slow carrier, faster, more agile dragons, and then the ninjas basically being a mix of Platinum and Just Cause-inspired gameplay, maybe flying from dragon to dragon, dragon-hijacking, etc...sounds interesting enough to me.

I get the complaint of it sounding like a mash-up of buzzwords, but mechanically that sort of set-up could be cool. Also, the mash-up of buzzword coupled with Boss Key’s two projects that were reveals being a little “me too” (Overwatch-like and Fortnite-like...sorry PUBG) isn’t exactly inspiring, I guess...

Avatar image for brunothethird
#91 Posted by BrunoTheThird (510 posts) -

@nutter: Oh man, definitely; I like those ideas you put forward a lot. In my mind it looks like Warhawk/Starhawk meets Lair meets Metal Gear Rising. The Titanfall 2 team could do something fantastic with all of those ideas.

Avatar image for minipato
#92 Edited by MiniPato (2957 posts) -

Damn, that sucks for everyone involved and I hope they land on their feet.

The Silicon Valley startup-like trend chasing way in which the studio chose their projects didn't seem like the right approach. I can see why they would chase after those projects since PUBG proved you don't need a huge blockbuster studio to create a massively popular game and Fortnite proved that it's never too late to capitalize on the latest craze. But for some reason their projects seemed always one step behind the zeitgeist.

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