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    Call of Duty: Black Ops

    Game » consists of 19 releases. Released Nov 09, 2010

    The seventh installment of the long-running action franchise, Call of Duty: Black Ops puts players into the early era of the Cold War (including the Vietnam War) as a member of the United States black operations unit known as the SOG.

    Torture has become an accepted part of war?

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    mr_moustache

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    #1  Edited By mr_moustache

    Hey, am I the only one who got grosed out by the game forcing me to tortute this guy in Numbers? 
    I´ve tried not do it, sat there for a minute until I realised i could not keep playing without punching hsi face in and cutting up his tounge in the progress. Apart from my roomate, who had the same reaction, I´ve found noone else who seemed to be unsetteled by the sequence. (apart from an consiparcy-nutjob on youtube)
    The guys on the bombcast didn´t even mention the scene.
     
    So first, are there more people like me and my roomate?
    And to all you who just punched him, why did you do it? Because it´s just a game? Because it´s what the character would do?
     Because it has become an accepted fact that soldiers torture prisoners to get information?
    ?
     
    I´ve just did a google search and not one gaming website picked up on it.

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    natetodamax

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    #2  Edited By natetodamax

    The dude that reviewed the game for Game Informer was also disturbed by the scene. I do not understand why people found it so disturbing. I guess punching a guy in the face twice is more evil and unsettling than shooting countless numbers of people throughout the game. Makes no sense to me personally.

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    Maxynator

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    #3  Edited By Maxynator

    Its to enhance the experience, just like smoking is allowed in theaters during plays. Its part of the game, some people get a kick out of it, I couldn't care less. I just care for headshots

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    wefwefasdf

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    #4  Edited By wefwefasdf

    Did you find killing hundreds of soldiers unsettling as well?

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    TheSeductiveMoose

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    #5  Edited By TheSeductiveMoose
    @natetodamax said:

    " The dude that reviewed the game for Game Informer was also disturbed by the scene. I do not understand why people found it so disturbing. I guess punching a guy in the face twice is more evil and unsettling than shooting countless numbers of people throughout the game. Makes no sense to me personally. "

    It made me feel uneasy, because I was imagining myself as the guy who was getting punched. And having my mouth punched whilst it is filled with glass is close to the same level on my pain scale as having my testicles sliced with a razor (Not really, but added for dramatic effect).
     
    I don't mind it being in the game though.
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    Illmatic

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    #6  Edited By Illmatic

    I set dudes on fire and mowed down hundreds of soldiers with rock and roll playing in the background. Punching a dude in the face didn't really seem like a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

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    mr_moustache

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    #7  Edited By mr_moustache
    @SpikeSpiegel: 
    IThose who just dropped dead after afew shots? No, I didn´t, they were nameless, souless "robots".
    Those who I stabbed in mini-cutscenes and those whose limbs I shot off, and watched them die slowly? Yes.
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    OmegaChosen

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    #8  Edited By OmegaChosen

    I didn't really care, it's just a game.

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    StealthRaptor

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    #9  Edited By StealthRaptor

    What Would Jack Bauer Do?

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    Dany

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    #10  Edited By Dany

    It's accepted in video games because people know that a game you play with a controller af mashing A is not the same as holding a knife and knifing below the finger nail.

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    meteora

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    #12  Edited By meteora

    It was a bit distrubing, but I went along with it anyways. At least its not a No Russian.

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    Venatio

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    #13  Edited By Venatio

    It's a videogame and that segment was kinda cool

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    valrog

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    #14  Edited By valrog

    I thought it was a nice little detail.

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    FancySoapsMan

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    #15  Edited By FancySoapsMan

    That kind of stuff is pretty common in movies too. And there was a torture scene in MGS3.
     
    I haven't played Black Ops yet though, so I don't really know how I feel about the scene you're talking about.

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    MordeaniisChaos

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    #16  Edited By MordeaniisChaos
    @natetodamax said:

    " The dude that reviewed the game for Game Informer was also disturbed by the scene. I do not understand why people found it so disturbing. I guess punching a guy in the face twice is more evil and unsettling than shooting countless numbers of people throughout the game. Makes no sense to me personally. "

    While I understand why people are more disturbed by it, I generally agree. I was not at all disturbed by it. People don't think about the simple, distant, disconnected deaths, but when it's in their face and inescapable, then they will be disturbed by it. Yet when they shoot the innocent on accident because he popped out of no where, they feel no remorse or moral disturbance of any kind.
    First of all, this is in the truest sense of the word, a tale of fiction. So don't think it is commentary on real war. 
    Second of all, when it comes to the shit that the people in Black Ops deal with, yes, it is absolutely a part of war. When your trying to prevent the deaths of thousands or millions of people, torturing one man is a small price to pay. It's terrible, it should only be done when there are actually a great number of lives on the line, but unfortunately there are people out there determined enough to do harm that the only way to deal with them is unrelenting force. 
     Third of all, it was a fairly short, limited scene. I was more disturbed by the guy getting his eye messed up at the beginning, and even that was just "oh shit that has to hurt like hell". 
     
     
    And I have one last quick point I'd like to add: Calling a guy a conspiracy nut job when you are assuming there is little or no difference between the usual battle field, and a top secret, top tier mission in an outrageously out of the box fiction is a little harsh. You don't play a soldier, you play an agent so fucking elite, he isn't even elite.
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    Turambar

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    #17  Edited By Turambar

    When has torture not been an accepted part of war?  The lack of its usage in a war would be much more of a new concept than vice versa.

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    DocHaus

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    #18  Edited By DocHaus

    Personally, I think if that scene made you stop and think for a second about the morality of it all, then maybe it's done a good job. Especially when you consider in real life, there's a good chance the guy you are torturing is just a poor bastard who owed someone money and now he's saying whatever he thinks will make you stop. Compare this to a video game or to 24, where the guy is always guilty and his information is always accurate because the narrative demands it be so.

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    valrog

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    #19  Edited By valrog

    Besides, there are a lot of worse ways to torture someone. This one was quite creative/refreshing and way better than just punching the man.

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    Meltac

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    #20  Edited By Meltac

    What happens if you turn it off?

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    rhacer63

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    #21  Edited By rhacer63

    I too found it unsettling.
     
    I'm quite sure because it was far more personal than killing the "faceless" bad guys at the end of the gun barrel.
     
    I thought it was Treyarch's "No Russian" moment, though not near as emotionally trying for me at least.

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    Feser

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    #22  Edited By Feser

    The OP seems to alluding to the notion that torture is not an acceptable level of warfare, say for instance like using Mustard Gas or disregarding human causualties entirely. It's not "nice" to torture the shit out of enemy combatants.  
     
    Also to answer the OP's question litteraly, torture is supposed to be avoided at all costs in warfare. The French tortured like a third of every Algerian male in the 50s when they were fighting them, and even though France won against the insurgents the general populace was not exactly pleased with their methods. Almost all of France's loyalists switched sides and that is why there is no longer an Algerian French Colony. Plus, did waterboarding a few terrorists ever get the US anywhere? It gave countless terrorists groups nice little bullet points to put on their recruitment fliers and bolster their numbers. It's becoming more evident over the years to stop brute force methods of gathering intelligence (AKA torture) and I won't go into all the reasons but generally speaking it is generally being avoid more and more.

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    Skald

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    #23  Edited By Skald

    I think burning people to death with Dragon's Breath shells is worse. I mean, they're burning. To death.

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    valrog

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    #24  Edited By valrog
    @rhacer63:  But the people in No Russian were more "faceless" than the man in Numbers. So...
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    SomeJerk

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    #25  Edited By SomeJerk

    I glassed him and punched him because I've got real life experience, but I did not like how he was perfectly alright to speak and get exercise immediately after.
     
    Torture is part of intelligence gathering, if it wasn't for ways of "getting people to speak" (of course there are far better methods than that) 9/11 would not have been the only terrible event on US soil in the last decade. The world is ugly, the dirty work required to clean it up is uglier. Things like No Russian has happened in real life (except the whole start a war thing at the end, and at a smaller scale) and will continue to happen.

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    DukesT3

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    #26  Edited By DukesT3

      Your playing a person who needs to get information one way or another. Information that might be critical in whatever scenario might happen next. I'm sure the Soviets were doing the same thing to American spies so they too could gather highly sensitive intel that could benefit them.     

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    audiosnag

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    #27  Edited By audiosnag
    @Meltac
    What happens if you turn it off?
    The screen stays white and you just hear it, it doesn't fade in until after its over.
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    BraveToaster

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    #28  Edited By BraveToaster

    In order to gain life-saving information, I'd torture an enemy.

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    sjupp

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    #29  Edited By sjupp
    @Meteora said:

    " It was a bit distrubing, but I went along with it anyways. At least its not a No Russian. "

    I actually felt the opposite. Maybe there's some truth to the quote "The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic."
    Not exactly the same but you get what I'm talking about.
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    Jack268

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    #30  Edited By Jack268

    Torture is a part of war. Maybe not "accepted", but it is there, and since those guys are the blackest of operatives, they do what they must to get results. A guy's mouth or America, your call, pretty much. 
     
    I didn't find this part unsettling at all compared to  SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content. 
     
    Oh, and just like No Russian: It's a bloody game. Sure, shit like this happens, but these pixels on your screen are far from the actual experience.

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    apathylad

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    #31  Edited By apathylad
    @natetodamax said:
    " The dude that reviewed the game for Game Informer was also disturbed by the scene. I do not understand why people found it so disturbing. I guess punching a guy in the face twice is more evil and unsettling than shooting countless numbers of people throughout the game. Makes no sense to me personally. "
    Yeah, I'm still surprised whenever I hear people say that they were moved by No Russian last year. 
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    JoelTGM

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    #32  Edited By JoelTGM
    @extremeradical said:
    " I think burning people to death with Dragon's Breath shells is worse. I mean, they're burning. To death. "
    What?  I am helping them by cauterizing their dismembered limbs.
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    meteora

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    #33  Edited By meteora
    @Sjupp said:
    " @Meteora said:

    " It was a bit distrubing, but I went along with it anyways. At least its not a No Russian. "

    I actually felt the opposite. Maybe there's some truth to the quote "The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic." Not exactly the same but you get what I'm talking about. "
    Its all perspective. Depends on how you view things. I was more deeply disturbed in No Russian as we mowed down hundreds or thousands of innocent civilians. Sheer numbers is more disturbing for me in this case. If I knew the character beforehand I might be a bit more disturbed than usual.
     
    On the contrary, I knew quite a few people who liked the mission since they had fun mowing down civilians, lol.
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    griefersstolemykeyboard

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    You left click to activate an animation (or press a button I guess), I fail to see how you can be disturbed by that.

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    CaptainObvious

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    #35  Edited By CaptainObvious

    You bunch of pussies.  

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    Swoxx

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    #36  Edited By Swoxx

    So because there's torture in a sequence in a video game about war it's suddenly "an accepted part of war"?

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    StaticFalconar

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    #37  Edited By StaticFalconar
    @mr_moustache: Um, like the Saw game came out in the same month, so yeah..... 
     
    That and. Its an Effing game. This is not a real war so, having torture in a fake war is all for entertainment and drama, while torture in real war would bring war crime charges on you. 
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    FluxWaveZ

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    #38  Edited By FluxWaveZ

    That's what he gets for not telling me about Nova 6.

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    phantomzxro

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    #39  Edited By phantomzxro

    I found that scene to be very tame so i don't see what the problem is. Granted it is one of those moments where you flinch at the thought of being in that moment yourself. I found all the scripted close kill you do to be way more graphic when you see the dudes eyes rolled in the back of their head. But still even what all that stuff nothing in this is in the level of saw torture. 

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    Skald

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    #40  Edited By Skald

    I'd like to point out that Clarke doesn't seem to rattled by it. Five seconds later, he's helping you kill dudes. Highly trained Spetsnaz operatives sent by his own handlers, no less.

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    TheMustacheHero

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    #41  Edited By TheMustacheHero
    @Meteora said:
    " It was a bit distrubing, but I went along with it anyways. At least its not a No Russian. "
    Yeah, that was the best level ever!
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    Dogma

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    #42  Edited By Dogma

    Two people have touched on the subject already but the OP asks why you can't refuse or rather, choose not to see the torture. He says that the game is forcing him to torture. You do have the choice. The game gives you the choice in the beginning just like in Modern Warfare 2. This seems to be one of those situations when this censor function kicks into gear. You hade the choice if you would like to see all the graphic violence that Treyarched planned to show you. It was integeral to their design that this scene happened and therefore you could not refuse to punch the guy but you always had the option to not see it.

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    NTM

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    #43  Edited By NTM

    It's a game, so it doesn't really matter, because what happens in a game doesn't reflect what I'd do, or how I'd feel in reality. Although when I watch some people play games I question what the hell their doing, because I immerse myself into almost every game I play, and that helps me get through it with a minimal amount of times dying, so I wonder why anyone plays games like run n' gun. I'm wondering, how people would play multiplayer if they were playing it as if they were in a real war. Anyways, I'm surprised crappy threads like this are even made. There's no need for someone to explain their feelings towards what happens in a game majority of the time. Definitely not the part you're talking about. I think a game should and can immerse someone, but I don't think their feelings should reach the level of how they'd feel in reality.
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    melcene

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    #44  Edited By melcene
    @Turambar said:
    " When has torture not been an accepted part of war?  The lack of its usage in a war would be much more of a new concept than vice versa. "
    This is an excellent point.
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    Raymayne

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    #45  Edited By Raymayne
    @somejerk said:
    " I glassed him and punched him because I've got real life experience "
    Quote of the MF'ing week.
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    Potter9156

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    #46  Edited By Potter9156

    I thought the throat stabbing was way more gross.

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    sjupp

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    #47  Edited By sjupp
    @Meteora said:
    " @Sjupp said:
    " @Meteora said:

    " It was a bit distrubing, but I went along with it anyways. At least its not a No Russian. "

    I actually felt the opposite. Maybe there's some truth to the quote "The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic." Not exactly the same but you get what I'm talking about. "
    Its all perspective. Depends on how you view things. I was more deeply disturbed in No Russian as we mowed down hundreds or thousands of innocent civilians. Sheer numbers is more disturbing for me in this case. If I knew the character beforehand I might be a bit more disturbed than usual. On the contrary, I knew quite a few people who liked the mission since they had fun mowing down civilians, lol. "
    I must admit I was not affected at all (Although I didn't find it fun, I was playing on Veteran. That game is fucking hard.) -by the No Russian level and I am somewhat emotionally disconnected overall when it comes to humans. Call me weird but I am sort of okay with people getting hurt. Well, not okay but you i hope you understand. However, when it comes to animals getting hurt, I just can't take it. I do have several pets in my house and that has surely something to do with it but I just fel bad. So I get what kind of feeling people might be feeling, it just doesn't apply to me.
     
    Also to OP, torture has always been present in wars and in movies etc. Accepted might not be the right answer but I understand that depicting it like this as an interactive part of the game might upset some.
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    T0mF5

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    #48  Edited By T0mF5

    War is torture.

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    rhacer63

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    #49  Edited By rhacer63
    @valrog said:
    " @rhacer63:  But the people in No Russian were more "faceless" than the man in Numbers. So... "
    I think the difference is that the people in [i]No Russian[/i] were innocents, non-combatants. The guy in [i]Numbers[/i] was far from an innocent. I hope both were designed to provoke thought.
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    McGhee

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    #50  Edited By McGhee

    Torture has not generally been used for "intelligence gathering". It's purpose has always been to extract confessions.  
     
    Get someone to confess that they are a witch, Satan worshiper, terrorist, spy, etc. so that you can parade that person around for political gain.

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