PvP impressions so far? (spoilers potentially)

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Strangestories

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#1  Edited By Strangestories

Currently in NG+ at the non-poison swamp letting people invade me for some good ol' 1v1 no-heal duels. I've invaded as well but I'll focus on people who invade me because they're actually looking for it.

First impressions:

1. People really like their R1 spam and that tends to get them killed. So far, Invaders seem to think it's Dark Souls 1 pvp all over again with infinite staggering and it's fun to watch them realize that it doesn't work like that.

2. The big game-changer for me are weapon arts. I didn't find many uses for them in pve but hoo-boy are some of them pretty powerful in pvp. I use the Dark Sword's weapon art all the time; even just using the stomp and not swinging gets people to start rolling and it's VERY easy to time your hits for the end of rolls in this game (or at least easier than previous entries). The weapon art move itself gives you hyper armor since it shares the stomp with greatswords and ultra greatswords which people luckily don't realize so they try and R1 me out of it, only to take 400 damage to the face.

3. I feel like every third person I fight is using the uchigatana.

4. Backstab fishing has not returned and parrying is so finicky and risky. I think I've been parried once and the other person was as surprised as I was that they didn't follow it up.

I'm definitely new to the pvp side of Dark Souls games but it's really fun this time around and when I do run into someone who knows what they're doing, I get destroyed.

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A_Turtle

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@strangestories: I just finished Ng+ and have been playing around with the pvp as well. If you want to duel go to the area after Pontiff Sulyvahn boss, it's swarming with red summoning signs there. This is the most fun I've had with dark souls pvp and it's largely due to the weapon arts and the latency is a bit better this time around.

There are a bunch of good katanas in the game, I've been playing around with the chaos blade because it has insane dex scaling. Also just got Darkdrift (the invisible katana) to max upgrade and am looking forward to trying it out.

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ivdamke

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I think at least so far the dueling is the best it's been. I've vs'd a lot of variety and used a bunch of builds too all feel satisfying and viable. So far though I'm definitely heavy into my Carthus Curved Sword with Sacred Flame Pyromancy in my offhand. It's just too good.

Invasions however are currently a bit skewed, I've explained/vented on other threads so I won't beat the horse here but my main issue is the matchmaking priority against people who are cooping, reduced health and reduced Estus are just one thing too many stacked against an invader. I think the coop priority should be removed, reduced health and reduced Estus flasks is already enough of a setback for an invader.

And you're right, the weapon arts really add to the PvP a lot, especially when dealing with multiple players at once.

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BoOzak

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I've won 90% of my duels by just spamming R1 with the uchigatana, hate me all you want but it works more often than not.

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Tennmuerti

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Lag city.

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flaminghobo

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#6  Edited By flaminghobo

My opinion on invasions remains the same as it did back from the original Dark Souls. They suck.

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Sterling

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@tennmuerti: This has been my experience also thus far. I just started getting into the pvp the other day. And I'd say 80% of the time its awful from the lag. But strangely I have no lag issues with co-op, only pvp. Its very strange.

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zombievac

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The PC version's multiplayer is a bit borked still, not sure about the consoles - lots of lag in too many cases, even with worldwide matchmaking off.

BTW, hot tip for PC, if you're getting the thing where other players stand still and float around (which makes it impossible to fight them fairly), it seems you need to completely quit the game and re-launch it to make it go away. It either has something to do with the server you get connected to at game launch, or it's a bug that persists until the game is quit and re-launched.

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kerse

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Kinda reminds me of bloodbornes pvp in the way that no one uses any type of magic in this game. I have been trying to make a faith build but lightning spear does so little damage that it kinda is a waste and as always it is impossible to hit players with it.

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RubberBabyBuggyBumpers

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IMO, it's currently straight up garbage. It's laggy as fuck. I can be 6 or more paces away and out of range of their weapon and I'm still taking damage, I can hear my swings hitting and critting my opponent and their bar isn't dropping in the slightest. Most of the invaders are estus chugging douches who, when they realize they're getting their ass beat, run away and into a crowd of mobs, chug, and come back for more of a beating, and repeat.

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mike

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The latency is pretty bad. Sometimes it's not too noticeable, but it's especially obvious when you're facing against someone using certain weapons, like the Broadsword or any thrusting type weapon. Combined with the lag, some hitboxes seem way off on a lot of these weapons and people can hit you from what should be out of range. When the latency is lower, PVP is a lot of fun, but for me the majority of time it's almost unplayable.

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Strangestories

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@mike: Are you on PC? I'm on PS4 and most invaders have had very little latency. I'm wondering if that issue is platform specific, something From has been having a lot of issue with lately.

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mike

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@strangestories: Yeah, PC. I also tried turning off Worldwide Matchmaking, but that didn't seem to do anything.

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mordukai

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@strangestories:Souls games and Uchi's have a very famous, illustrious past. Low stamina cost, high output damage, bleeding effect, fast attack animation, and very questionable hit boxes. Some things just never change.

Most of the invaders are estus chugging douches who, when they realize they're getting their ass beat, run away and into a crowd of mobs, chug, and come back for more of a beating, and repeat.

That's when you use Seed of a Giant tree and watch the beauty unfold.

@mike: I would also like to add that when coop phantom have no animation then it turns boss fights into a joke.

This game needs a PVP arena ASAP. Right now it's a huge mess. However, I am sure Miyazaki gets a huge kick from watching the PVP turn into a cluster fuck. /s

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Humanity

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#16  Edited By Humanity

The few times I've engaged in it purely from invasions or from the first time I summoned a purple sign not knowing what it was the experience was, as others mentioned above, quite laggy. Sometimes it was almost fine, other times it was teleporting backstabs and constant whiffing. Co-op appears to be good, although I can't be sure what the other guy is seeing on his end, but yah the PVP stuff isn't super great from a technical standpoint - all the usual grief like invaders hiding behind mobs etc notwithstanding.

The PVP arena was a cool idea in DS2 for dedicated dueling where players "followed the etiquette" and all that. I have seen some places where temporary arenas have formed though like in the poison swamps in the covenant tower.

Oh yah I'm on PC.

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Latinkon

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I've had fun with it. The designated fight club seems to be the semi-circular area immediately after Pontiff Sulyvahn. It's nice being able to use a basic weapon like the longsword (admittedly +10 and usually buffed) and beat out flashy nonsense like katanas and FUGS.

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captainjudaism

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I despise DS3 PVP to be honest. While I'm still in new game, but nearing the end, each time I've been invaded it's been a total shitshow and its made me simply go offline whenever I want to use an ember to make sure I don't get my time wasted with an invasion.

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Crysack

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#19  Edited By Crysack

1. People really like their R1 spam and that tends to get them killed. So far, Invaders seem to think it's Dark Souls 1 pvp all over again with infinite staggering and it's fun to watch them realize that it doesn't work like that.

Actually it's more effective than you think. Poise is basically useless in DS3 so it's quite easy to stagger and stunlock people with light weapons. As a result, pretty much everyone uses straight swords online. It also helps that straight swords hit like freight trains in DS3 for some reason. The current meta is basically straight sword (usually the Dark Sword) and a quality build.

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TOA_Doom

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The actual fighting has been pretty great, outside a few instances of being hit from completely impossible ranges. But invading sort of sucks. You're put at such a disadvantage already, and that I don't really mind, but it seems like people 'always' have one or two summons with them. Anecdotally I would say like 9/10 of the invasions I've done (and I've invaded quite a bit) I've simply been outnumbered. I don't know if it's confirmed, but it does seem like matchmaking prioritizes putting invaders in worlds where the host already has phantoms summoned. I've had a very hard time finding just straight-up 1v1 pvp.

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RonGalaxy

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It's been a total lag fest for me. I don't have the greatest internet in the world, but it's not THAT bad.

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Strangestories

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@crysack: An example of what I mean is I got invaded in the catacombs by someone using the Firelink greatsword and they just proceeded to swing no matter if I was in range or not while using all their stamina. I would get in an R1 or two, a heavy attack, or a running attack, they would then roll back to use the weapon art (or heal), then run back in to continue swinging. I think I got hit once in all the attacks they threw out just because R1 range for most weapons is pretty predictable if that's literally all they're doing. Maybe R1 spamming works 50% of the time, but there is a sort of "stun resist" that builds and allows you to roll away after getting hit 2 times by great or ultra great R1's, and maaaaybe 3 times with straight swords and once you realize what they're going to be doing, it gets easy to avoid attacks and know when to attack.

Spamming that does get me, though? Uchigatana running attacks over and over again. The range is ridiculous and it's very easy to combo into the weapon art to take off half your health.

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Teddie

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Um, I was fighting some big crabs and got invaded one time. There were a lot of crabs though so I never even saw the guy.

Haven't had any other PVP encounters since. Sure is fun to "collapse" with everyone after co-opping a boss though!

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RubberBabyBuggyBumpers

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@crysack said:
@strangestories said:

1. People really like their R1 spam and that tends to get them killed. So far, Invaders seem to think it's Dark Souls 1 pvp all over again with infinite staggering and it's fun to watch them realize that it doesn't work like that.

Actually it's more effective than you think. Poise is basically useless in DS3 so it's quite easy to stagger and stunlock people with light weapons. As a result, pretty much everyone uses straight swords online. It also helps that straight swords hit like freight trains in DS3 for some reason. The current meta is basically straight sword (usually the Dark Sword) and a quality build.

I use the Exile Greatsword. So far, I have upgraded it to +5. Combined with being lightweight, Flynn's ring, that other ring that increases your damage by having full health, that other ring that increases your dexterity and makes you somewhat transparent while rolling, that one pyro spell that makes you hit harder with each consecutive hit, and the 2h L2 and pressing R2 once the spin is activated really wrecks people.

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Strangestories

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@rubberbabybuggybumpers: I started upgrading a dual weapon (two straight swords, can't remember the name. You get it near the end of the game) that gets a B ranking in scaling with strength and dex. It has an amazing move set and I can't wait to get it to +10. The R1 combo is a double slash then long range poke while the weapon art is a spin that you can combo off of other attacks.

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ViciousBearMauling

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Either it's lag or the running Katana hitbox is still fucking dumb.

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RubberBabyBuggyBumpers

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@strangestories: Dancer of the Boreal Valley's daggers are pretty neat as well. Defeating that bitch, however, is a different story altogether. That wasn't a fun fight.

I've attempted more PvP stuff through the Rosaria covenant. I still hate it. From needs to fix some of the issues such as lag, delayed hit boxes, and hit boxes that seem to be within range of my opponent(s) while I'm visually waaaaaay out of range of their attacks.

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mathj

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#28  Edited By mathj

im definitely the r1 spammer you see haha, but considering i have a rapier thats kinda what i do. however, i really like the l2/r2 combo. with the rapier l2 is backstep+thrust/r2 being a thrust forward+3 to 4 quick successive strikes. ive won probably equal to the amount ive lost. i think my problem coming into this game is i was in the bloodborne mindset of no shields, so made a dex character which would be a good choice for a game w/o shields. but where in this game, everyone (mostly that ive played with) has shields, a big weapon, and alot of health/strength. i was shieldless+rapier/light armor/not alot of pts. put into vigor but recently have started beefing up my health to counter this. if you can stun/parry though youll win forever. btw, my exp. with pvp is not much, ive always fucked around with it and you cant avoid being invaded so you kinda have to deal with it at some pt. in these games. but i do enjoy it. at the same time, there are tons of try hards. and that shit can just annoy me lol

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mylifeforAiur

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For me it has been either laggy or I've encountered a duo. I tried invading a few times for fun, but every time there were two combatants. Also, I'm unsure, but I think when I set my multiplayer settings to except all and not just local players I couldn't find a summon to save my life (the entire intention). Switched to local only and found plenty. Weird.

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mathj

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IMO, it's currently straight up garbage. It's laggy as fuck. I can be 6 or more paces away and out of range of their weapon and I'm still taking damage, I can hear my swings hitting and critting my opponent and their bar isn't dropping in the slightest. Most of the invaders are estus chugging douches who, when they realize they're getting their ass beat, run away and into a crowd of mobs, chug, and come back for more of a beating, and repeat.

yeah that is one thing that really pisses me off. a person invades MY game, starts to get their ass kicked, runs into mobs of enemies, gets me fucking killed, then does a little dance on my grave like they earned it?? hell no!

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RubberBabyBuggyBumpers

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@mathj said:
@rubberbabybuggybumpers said:

IMO, it's currently straight up garbage. It's laggy as fuck. I can be 6 or more paces away and out of range of their weapon and I'm still taking damage, I can hear my swings hitting and critting my opponent and their bar isn't dropping in the slightest. Most of the invaders are estus chugging douches who, when they realize they're getting their ass beat, run away and into a crowd of mobs, chug, and come back for more of a beating, and repeat.

yeah that is one thing that really pisses me off. a person invades MY game, starts to get their ass kicked, runs into mobs of enemies, gets me fucking killed, then does a little dance on my grave like they earned it?? hell no!

Not having a seed from the Tree of Giants makes it infuriating. When I have one, I wait for the fucker to run away into a crowd of mobs, I use the seed, and watch the hilarity. :D

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hassun

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@mathj said:
@rubberbabybuggybumpers said:

IMO, it's currently straight up garbage. It's laggy as fuck. I can be 6 or more paces away and out of range of their weapon and I'm still taking damage, I can hear my swings hitting and critting my opponent and their bar isn't dropping in the slightest. Most of the invaders are estus chugging douches who, when they realize they're getting their ass beat, run away and into a crowd of mobs, chug, and come back for more of a beating, and repeat.

yeah that is one thing that really pisses me off. a person invades MY game, starts to get their ass kicked, runs into mobs of enemies, gets me fucking killed, then does a little dance on my grave like they earned it?? hell no!

The odds are stacked heavily against invaders already. Using the level to your advantage is a completely legitimate tactic.

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ll_Exile_ll

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@hassun said:
@mathj said:
@rubberbabybuggybumpers said:

IMO, it's currently straight up garbage. It's laggy as fuck. I can be 6 or more paces away and out of range of their weapon and I'm still taking damage, I can hear my swings hitting and critting my opponent and their bar isn't dropping in the slightest. Most of the invaders are estus chugging douches who, when they realize they're getting their ass beat, run away and into a crowd of mobs, chug, and come back for more of a beating, and repeat.

yeah that is one thing that really pisses me off. a person invades MY game, starts to get their ass kicked, runs into mobs of enemies, gets me fucking killed, then does a little dance on my grave like they earned it?? hell no!

The odds are stacked heavily against invaders already. Using the level to your advantage is a completely legitimate tactic.

Especially when you invade and the person already has a co-op phantom or two. If it's a 3v1, you can sure as hell bet I'm going to use the surroundings to my advantage and heal if I need to. Anything is fair game IMO, unless it's a red soapstone duel, in which case I'll roll with dueling rules if the other person adheres to them.

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Strangestories

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@mathj: does the rapier's running attack do a really long range thrust? If so you should try that out in pvp! Like I said further up, people who use the uchigatana running attack well can fuck me up, especially if they can pull a combo off with it. And in regards to people using big weapons, a lot of the difficulty fighting people with those is that I find they're really intimidating and that can psych me out (especially if they get a single massive hit off).

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mike

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#35  Edited By mike

@mathj said:

yeah that is one thing that really pisses me off. a person invades MY game, starts to get their ass kicked, runs into mobs of enemies, gets me fucking killed, then does a little dance on my grave like they earned it?? hell no!

Don't run after them into packs of enemies? That's like complaining you died because you jumped off a cliff trying to follow an invader down to the bottom.

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RubberBabyBuggyBumpers

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@hassun said:
@mathj said:
@rubberbabybuggybumpers said:

IMO, it's currently straight up garbage. It's laggy as fuck. I can be 6 or more paces away and out of range of their weapon and I'm still taking damage, I can hear my swings hitting and critting my opponent and their bar isn't dropping in the slightest. Most of the invaders are estus chugging douches who, when they realize they're getting their ass beat, run away and into a crowd of mobs, chug, and come back for more of a beating, and repeat.

yeah that is one thing that really pisses me off. a person invades MY game, starts to get their ass kicked, runs into mobs of enemies, gets me fucking killed, then does a little dance on my grave like they earned it?? hell no!

The odds are stacked heavily against invaders already. Using the level to your advantage is a completely legitimate tactic.

Especially when you invade and the person already has a co-op phantom or two. If it's a 3v1, you can sure as hell bet I'm going to use the surroundings to my advantage and heal if I need to. Anything is fair game IMO, unless it's a red soapstone duel, in which case I'll roll with dueling rules if the other person adheres to them.

I can understand in a situation like that. However, in most cases when I am invaded, it's an even 1v1 situation. I have never been invaded while running around with a helper phantom or two.

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Strangestories

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Something I'm thinking is that it would be fun to have a sort of giant bomb fight club to test out weapons and movesets without the stress of fighting just random invaders or being ganked when invading. The barrier to that is people being spread out across platforms.

Also, just so everyone knows, it seems that the agreed upon pvp range are levels 120-125 or so

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Sessh

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It's laggy as fuck right now, so it's completely unplayable honestly. Terrible.

@ll_exile_ll said:
@hassun said:
@mathj said:
@rubberbabybuggybumpers said:

IMO, it's currently straight up garbage. It's laggy as fuck. I can be 6 or more paces away and out of range of their weapon and I'm still taking damage, I can hear my swings hitting and critting my opponent and their bar isn't dropping in the slightest. Most of the invaders are estus chugging douches who, when they realize they're getting their ass beat, run away and into a crowd of mobs, chug, and come back for more of a beating, and repeat.

yeah that is one thing that really pisses me off. a person invades MY game, starts to get their ass kicked, runs into mobs of enemies, gets me fucking killed, then does a little dance on my grave like they earned it?? hell no!

The odds are stacked heavily against invaders already. Using the level to your advantage is a completely legitimate tactic.

Especially when you invade and the person already has a co-op phantom or two. If it's a 3v1, you can sure as hell bet I'm going to use the surroundings to my advantage and heal if I need to. Anything is fair game IMO, unless it's a red soapstone duel, in which case I'll roll with dueling rules if the other person adheres to them.

I can understand in a situation like that. However, in most cases when I am invaded, it's an even 1v1 situation. I have never been invaded while running around with a helper phantom or two.

That's just it. 90% of the time I'm alone when I get invaded and everyone still runs behind enemies and tries to shoot me with hundreds of arrows from a distance. What's the fucking point? Just die once, and invade other people, instead of wasting 15 minutes on bullshit.

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hassun

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@sessh: If they act like any other enemy, just treat them like one. The impetus is on the invader to kill you. If they don't want to do that then that's their problem. Continue on your merry way.

Hell if you are invaded and you're alone but the invader doesn't take advantage of that fact then you are just getting extra opportunities to summon allies to defeat them. The invasion mechanics seem to heavily favour hosts who have summoned allies in their world, often leading to 1v2 or 1v3 situations.

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Sessh

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@hassun: Funny enough it never even occurred to me that I could just try and someone a phantom after some dude invaded me and just ran off. Will definitely try that, everything is better than just wasting time.

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hassun

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@sessh: Definitely. If they are just screwing around with you then they will have to be ready for you screwing them right back.

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mathj

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@ll_exile_ll: yeah i never do that.

@strangestories: nah it doesnt have a very long attack range, but you can definitely stun lock people. but some of the better players know how to get around that, so i end up just being safe, and dueling them proper.

@mike:i dont run after them into packs of enemies, but sometimes its a new area and im not aware that the asshole is baiting me so i chase him cause im beating his ass. im not that stupid.

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mike

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#43  Edited By mike

@mathj: I don't know about stupid, but chasing someone into an unknown area is probably not a great idea. Of course there are going to be hard enemies over there, it's Dark Souls. That's probably why the invader is running that direction in the first place.

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mathj

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@mike: yeah well whatever sometimes you get caught in the moment lol

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Bouken

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What's the unwritten soul/weapon level for high-end duels this time around?

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Rafaelfc

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I beat every single invader so far (been invaded like 5 times), which was never the case in the other Souls games (I used to get mowed down in seconds by invaders).

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Strangestories

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#47  Edited By Strangestories

@bouken: levels 120-125 and weapons can be upgraded all the way. This is from streamers so it could change once the game has been out for a few months.

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Latinkon

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Can I just say to all the people I'm invading in Archdragon Peak: You're in the late game. We have roughly the same level and upgrades. Just fight me already instead of sitting around a corner and waiting for more phantoms to become available.

I can't believe how spineless people are this late in the game. I don't care if I have to try and kite two or three people, I just want to fight someone in a duel with actual stakes (that is to say, I need more pale tongues).

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Sterling

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@latinkon: I got invaded there last night at the second drake fight three times. Bastards would run behind him and try shooting me with arrows or magic. I was trying to fight them one on one in the building next to it, to take it out of the equation. But none of them would. They just wanted an easy item, hoping the drake would kill me. I rarely seem to get someone who wants to actually fight. One guy at another area kept trying to bait me into giants. So I just sat on the ground waiting for him to get the hint. He left my world instead of fighting me. It seems to go both ways.

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