Will Dark Souls 3 get the Soulsborne Snub?

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golguin

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I finally uploaded the final fight and ending for Dark Souls 3 onto youtube and it allowed me to reflect on the greatness of Dark Souls 3 and the series as a whole. The Soulsborne series caused a paradigm shift in game development to the point where every other game is described as "The Dark Souls of X" or mechanics are described as "X is like Dark Souls."

Everyone is entitled to like and dislike whatever games they want. I know I've ignored plenty of great games that I'm sure are amazing for what they are, but I simply have no interest to play them. My question is how is such a great series largely dismissed by Giant Bomb? I'm hopeful that the series might finally get it's due this year during GOTY deliberations and be recognized for what it's brought, but I'm not holding my breath.

The only other series that's been as ignored as Soulsborne is The Witcher, but at least no one denies it has some of the best story and characterization in video games.

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paulmako

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#2  Edited By paulmako

I don't think it's been ignored? Maybe at first but I always thought this site had a pretty strong Dark Souls following. There was the Demon's Souls Endurance Run and also Brad doing the Bloodborne Chalice Dungeons on stream.

Bloodborne got a ton of coverage last year and they reviewed Dark Souls 3 positively. There has been a decent amount of love for the series over the years, although a lot of that is from podcast discussions so not immediately visible on the site.

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Technician

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#3  Edited By Technician

@golguin: The Witcher got onto two GOTY lists - Witcher 2 in 2011 and 3 last year. If I'm not mistaken nobody on the crew even finished the main story of the game last year but it still got on. I wouldn't say it has been ignored at all.

To your main question - yeah DS3 won't make the GOTY list. It may make some personal lists but that's it. Even if the GOTY discussions happened today it probably wouldn't make it.

Edit: DS3 won't make it since it is more of the same. It has pretty much unparalleled gameplay but it's not novel enough, surprising enough or stylish enough to make it on the list.

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nightriff

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#4  Edited By nightriff

Bloodborne didn't make it and Jeff even liked that one, so yes as none of them are talking about it anymore/didn't really gush over it like previous games. Will be a late cut with a lot of "its in my top 10 but I'm fine seeing it go."

Prediction: A part of the final 3 games cut before the 10 games are finalized.

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TheHT

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#5  Edited By TheHT

There's been a ton of coverage of the series here.

GOTY list is whatever they want, not necessarily things that are always "important," which, even so, I wouldn't expect Dark Souls 3 in particular to qualify for anyways.

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mike

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#6  Edited By mike

I really don't even care anymore. Dark Souls 3 will make my Top 10 list, but I'm mainly interested in Giant Bomb's list so I can sit back and watch a bunch of people get irrationally angry about it. It's completely subjective, if the guys don't like it enough relative to other games for it to make the top 10, that's fine.

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Marz

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it'll probably make it this year for GB goty, if anything bloodborne probably got the staff more into and looking forward to DS3 more so than the past games have and seems like more of them actually completed the game this time around.

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hach

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Considering most of the staff who like the souls games like DS1 the best and that didn't make the list in 2011 and in fact only made Vinny's personal list at number 7 it just seems they don't tend to like the souls games as much as people think. Only difference this year is Austin, and he didn't seem to think the game was spectacular (as in something incredible not that he didn't like it) but I don't know that for sure. Either way I don't think it's a snub necessarily just that the souls games don't have as much of a lasting impact on them as certain other games do. Not to mention less than half of the staff actually like the souls games at all so it isn't really surprising. It will definitely be on my list though.

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Fredchuckdave

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#9  Edited By Fredchuckdave

Hopefully it doesn't, considering how stupid the arguments were for leaving Bloodborne off last year and how much worse Dark Souls 3 is than Bloodborne. Salt and Sanctuary has a shot though, despite being worse than DS3.

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Mirado

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#10  Edited By Mirado

I mean I loved Dark Souls 3, but the GB GOTY lists are nothing more than personal preference (for the individual lists) and desperate, bitter compromise (for the main list). The process always revolves around tossing out games that people decide to sacrifice in order for them to better die on the hills of their favorites.

I know there's one or two members of the staff that had a good time with DS3, but if they had more fun with something else, then DS3 dies to advance their cause. That's not a bad thing; it's just how it always works out.

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golguin

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Bloodborne didn't make it and Jeff even liked that one, so yes as none of them are talking about it anymore/didn't really gush over it like previous games. Will be a late cut with a lot of "its in my top 10 but I'm fine seeing it go."

Prediction: A part of the final 3 games cut before the 10 games are finalized.

I'll add my vote for the "late cut not making top 10" position. If Bloodborne didn't make it then Dark Souls 3 sure as hell wont unless Austin gives a passionate speech about it representing the Soul series and that it should be recognized for that even if it didn't do completely new things.

For the record I think Bloodborne is a better "game" than the Souls series because I was finally able to have my fully realized dex character with quick dashes and a Katana. It also forced my no shield play style on everyone and it made the player base better for it. Learn those iframe dodges people.

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nightriff

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@hach: Well, in 2011 Vinny was the only one who had played a lot of the game and everyone else either refused to try it or were scared to play more (Brad and Ryan). Vinny didn't beat the game till early 2014, Brad then went on to play Demon's Souls and Patrick did his own playthrough of DS1. Jeff never liked the games period until Bloodborne and he gave up on it in the 2015 GOTY discussions.

The crew was very late to the Souls party, even Vinny who didn't officially beat Demon's until early/mid 2011. DS2 was the first game that multiple guys had beaten and none of them fought for it. Bloodborne was the first really chance to get one of the games on the list and I'm honestly still a little confused on why they didn't.

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Dispossession

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#13  Edited By Dispossession

I'd like to believe that there will be a bigger fight for DS3 versus last years discussion over Bloodborne. I will pretty upset if something like The Division makes it on to the list.

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enemylandlord

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I imagine it'll get some talk in a broken out category but I think there's no chance it even gets considered for the site top 10. Alex, Drew and Jeff are indifferent to the franchise and I don't remember any of the other guys showing much passion for it. Barring possibly Jason I think only Austin has even finished it?

It's a great game, and for my money a significant step up from Bloodborne, but unless interest gets renewed later in the year I wouldn't expect it to get much play on the 'casts.

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WalkerD

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#15  Edited By WalkerD

There's two full playthroughs of souls games on the site, a small video series revolving around DaS2, and like three bloodborne quicklooks and a breaking brad centered around it. How has the series been ignored by the site?

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NeverGameOver

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The Souls series has more content dedicated to it on this site than literally any other series outside of MGS

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WalkerD

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@nevergameover: Based purely on hours Persona probably still has the most.

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atomicoldman

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#18  Edited By atomicoldman

@mike: It's all gravy to me unless DOTA gets on a list again. Curses and drats, Bradley!

For real though, I'm sure DS3 will get mentioned, if there's any reason it's not getting discussed as much right now as, say, Bloodborne was, is because a LOT of really amazing games have been dropping in quick succession.

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Seikenfreak

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Highly doubt it'll make it. It'll be on at least one personal top 10 list though.

They've talked a ton about the Souls games over the years. And then they sort of stop themselves a bit after each release because they know a certain portion of people are tired of hearing them talk about it. The same effect is already kicking in for Overwatch (which I'm grateful for because I'm tired of hearing about it.)

It is what it is. These games take a long time and effort to finish compared to others and they're job/lifestyle doesn't lend itself to that. And they put Mario Maker at #1 last year.. if that list doesn't scream subjective then I don't know what does :P It's just really fun hearing them "debate" and strain they're relationships mwuahaha

I thought DS3 was great. It'll at least make my top 5.

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The_Nubster

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Will it make it on the list? I doubt it, though Austin and Jason will probably fight for it. But to say that the series has been "snubbed" is absolutely ridiculous. There's hours upon hours of video of this series on the site. There were even topics from people complaining about how much Souls/Bloodorne was being put on the site. Not making it on to some silly arbitrary list isn't "snubbing."

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Dragon_Puncher

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@walkerd: Dota probably has more as well.

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pyrodactyl

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I don't know but I'm sure clash royal will get a node during GotY deliberations.

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ikramit

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#23  Edited By ikramit

These lists have been going on for a while why do people still think they hold any real value

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Cav829

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#24  Edited By Cav829

It's only the start of June, and already you have for GotY contenders: Doom, Uncharted 4, Overwatch, The Witness, Stardew Valley, Firewatch, Hitman, Stellaris, and Factorio (the game everyone keeps forgetting).

So that's nine games already I've heard at least one member of the crew talk about in a way that makes me think they'll be harder fought for than Dark Souls 3.

So yeah, I don't see it happening. There is just too much working against it in that the members of the crew into the Souls series are so all over the place as to what their favorite entry is. I don't think the series has so much been "snubbed" as different members of the crew got into it at different times. Dark Souls for instance easily makes the 2011 list if they redid it today. Bloodborne would easily have made last year's top 10 if Patrick was still on staff. Dark Souls 2 would have made it in 2014 if Austin was on staff at that point.

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AdequatelyPrepared

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The crew are going to like what they like.
I'm just here around GOTY time for the sketches to be honest. It's been years since I have given a shit about a GOTY list from anywhere.

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Jinoru

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Snubbed? That didn't happen.

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NeverGameOver

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#27  Edited By NeverGameOver

@walkerd: basing such a measure purely on hours is nonsense. There is one persona feature on this website, and it is based on one persona game. They played through the entire MGS series and there have been like 4 separate souls features, plus a bunch of play dates. It would almost impossible for them to have more MGS content on this site without repeating content.

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Maluvin

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I'd also say hold your horses on deciding whether it will be "snubbed" or not. There's still the rest of the year and there are points here and there where there are lulls in releases (or bad releases) and sometimes those are moments where someone on the crew will revisit a game especially right before GOTY or when a major DLC is released (think we get the first one for DS3 before the end of the year).

With that said I'm increasingly thinking it doesn't make the Giant Bomb top 10 list but it might get some decent discussion because I think there are interesting things to say about that game and series in general and really the discussion is the most interesting part of the whole GOTY process rather than where things actually land.

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viking_funeral

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It's pretty silly to award a series by giving awards to the (ostensibly) last game in that series. Dark Souls 3 is a good game, but it is also the least innovative in the series.

Plus, it's not the Giant Bomb way.

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Rafaelfc

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#30  Edited By Rafaelfc

I don't think it will make the site's top 10 list.

In the off chance it does it'll be among the bottom 5 for sure.

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sammo21

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In all honesty, I find the game of the year lists to be extremely predictable. The only things that aren't predictable in the deliberations are the things people awkwardly decide to fall on their sword for and then argue about.

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Maluvin

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It's pretty silly to award a series by giving awards to the (ostensibly) last game in that series. Dark Souls 3 is a good game, but it is also the least innovative in the series.

Plus, it's not the Giant Bomb way.

All fair points although finding a spot on the GB GOTY list isn't necessarily premised on it being innovative. Just has to resonate with someone on the crew (which is probably a reason DS3 won't make it unless someone dives into it later in the year).

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Maedhros925

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@sammo21 said:

In all honesty, I find the game of the year lists to be extremely predictable. The only things that aren't predictable in the deliberations are the things people awkwardly decide to fall on their sword for and then argue about.

You're not wrong. Last year especially it seemed as though the staff was quicker to bow to the consensus, both inside and outside the Giant Bomb staff and community, rather than take a stand. Jeff and Austin of course made their passion plays, but from what I remember @nightriff nailed it with his line of "its in my top 10 but I'm fine seeing it go."

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Shindig

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The guys are kinda fatigued out at the minute. We kinda found that with last year where they'd get what they want out of it and move on.

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DarkeyeHails

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@sammo21: Which is why a game that one or two people felt really strongly about will make it onto the list above a game that most of them felt alright about. Which is probably what is going to happen to Dark Souls 3.

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GStats

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It's definitely had an effect on the industry.

You shouldn't really expect every site to match your preferences though. Nor should you rely on just 1 site for your coverage. There's gonna be all kinds of biases that you get with any 1 site. Given that there are whole youtube channels dedicated to pumping out Soulsborne media every day, I'm not sure what the problem is.

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geirr

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Giantbomb has played through two of the games live, and gotten the Bloodborne platinum live, I'd say that's plenty of coverage and love for the franchise. Perhaps even more coverage than Mario Maker got last year. Whether or not it makes their personal GOTY doesn't really matter to me AND there's hours of them debating what makes the list and what doesn't. There really shouldn't be a mystery here.

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dudeglove

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Law/theory of diminishing returns or whatever. Dark Souls 3 is weaker by virtue of the fact that the other games exist. My favorite way of examining it is, well, if said game just came out and none of the others existed, it would probably be received extremely well.

I don't think the staff dismiss them so much, but the nature of Soulsborne is one of repetition, and I think Jeff has said in the past that type of game doesn't mesh too well with their format, plus the needs of that particular demographic are being pretty well served by specifically soulsborne streamers and various youtubers (yukas, peeve, oroboro, ENB, lobos jr, etc.) so the idea of covering the games would more than likely lead to unnecessary criticism from said community (which the staff aren't interested in perpetuating). So, umm... I guess thinkpieces via Austin's writers are the most you'll get. That or Vinny's Load Our Last Souls.

Honestly, given what's come out (and what's coming out) I don't know if DkS3 deserves a top ten entry. Don't get me wrong, it's still a really good game, but I can't think of anything in the game that has delivered anything more than what I expected.

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aldo_q

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Perhaps I don't understand the topic, but I never got the feeling the Giant Bomb staff ignored the souls games. Vinny I believe has been a strong and outspoken fan of these games since the beginning and I've seen a lot of coverage. Even Jeff seems to have gotten slightly into it due to Bloodborne and they talked a lot about it. Various shows have been dedicated to souls games (my favorite remains the Breaking Brad's where he goes for Platinum Bloodborne) and even incidental streaming (I believe before PAX?) recently had Brad going back to Dark Souls I due to the fun he had with III.

I am guessing the 'deminishing returns' of this being the 5th game in the series might impact it being a GOY candidate, but you can't say they are ignoring this series and a lot of the staff (esp. Vinny, Brad, Austin and Jason) have expressed their love for the series. What actually becomes GOY never interests me that much personally.

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Corvak

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DS3 has been pretty big, but I think the snub is more related to timing than game quality. Typically time has clouded memories of the spring releases by the time GOY happens.

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Redhotchilimist

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#41  Edited By Redhotchilimist

I don't think a single one of the previous entries got on a GOTY list, so I would be really surprised if this one did. And I do think that's a little annoying. There is a lot of content on this site with them and several people on staff like them, they just didn't mostly start playing them year of release until Dark Souls 2. But I don't blame them for that, I started playing that series late too.

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deactivated-5a294599655de

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@technician: But even if it made it on the list (didn't win or get anywhere near enough discussion) the simple fact that such a universally well-loved and deep game wasn't completed by a single bloody member of a gaming website with so many people is still insane and it's entirely reasonable to say the Witcher 3 was unfairly ignored. I mean, we literally had a 6 month plus stretch of Brad giving asinine updates about new Destiny items and yet no one could put aside 30 or so hours to rush the Witcher Story?

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Technician

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@adac01: Well the initial comment was about Witcher as a series which is why I also mentioned Witcher 2. I see what you're saying about Witcher 3 but the fact that it made the list still means something, even if GB GOTY is its own unique thing.

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deactivated-5a294599655de

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@technician: The Witcher 2 period was just slightly before I really got into Giant Bomb so I'm kinda curious; did anyone besides Vinny really talk about it or push for it that year? I've heard Vinny talk about the series quite a bit over the years, especially Witcher 2, but almost no one else on the staff ever seemed to talk about it.

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Technician

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@adac01: Well I'd say you should go back and listen to the last day of the GOTY 2011 discussions because it's really great, I think the best GOTY cast so far. But to your point it was mainly Vinny representing for Witcher 2 and I want to say Jeff made it sound like he played it as well, nobody else seemed to have spent much time with the game :D.

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Justin258

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#46 Justin258  Online

@adac01 said:

@technician: But even if it made it on the list (didn't win or get anywhere near enough discussion) the simple fact that such a universally well-loved and deep game wasn't completed by a single bloody member of a gaming website with so many people is still insane and it's entirely reasonable to say the Witcher 3 was unfairly ignored. I mean, we literally had a 6 month plus stretch of Brad giving asinine updates about new Destiny items and yet no one could put aside 30 or so hours to rush the Witcher Story?

There was some frustration about this very sentiment on the Bombcast. I remember Dan annoyingly mentioning people making these sorts of comments. Most of Giantbomb's staff don't really get into fantasy stuff and especially not fantasy RPG's, especially Dan, so it's a miracle that any of them even put enough time in to get past the Bloody Baron. Remember, these guys come to work, do all of their work - the case has been made that they don't just play video games all day - and go home and search for, play, think about, and try to understand video games. Their lives revolve around games. Asking them to finish a game as ridiculously massive as The Witcher 3 when they stopped enjoying it at the 25 or so hour mark is a surefire way to make them hate it.

Pillars of Eternity and Legend of Grimrock 2 were also some damn excellent RPG's that Giantbomb largely ignored, if you want some examples of games that maybe should have gotten way more attention than they actually did.

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golguin

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@adac01: Well I'd say you should go back and listen to the last day of the GOTY 2011 discussions because it's really great, I think the best GOTY cast so far. But to your point it was mainly Vinny representing for Witcher 2 and I want to say Jeff made it sound like he played it as well, nobody else seemed to have spent much time with the game :D.

Jeff hated the combat for Witcher 2. He also didn't like that certain abilities that he felt were essential were locked behind a skill tree.

Witcher 2 came out on the 360 during the special time where I was playing Dark Souls 1 for the first time. Skyrim was also out around that same time period. After beating all 3 games I came to the conclusion that the best game needed the gameplay systems and environments from Dark Souls 1, the character and story from Witcher 2, and the scope of the world from Skyrim.

At the end of the day though Dark Souls 1 is the superior game. I think it's a shame that the nature of the Soulsborne series doesn't allow a normal person to tear through it over a long weekend. It's unforgiving combat and general game flow doesn't allow for lazy unfocused interactions. You have to be on your toes constantly. It's not surprising how many of the staff doesn't want to deal with the stress of playing the game. With most games the longer you play the easier it becomes. Dark Souls doesn't have that difficulty ramp. It keeps things difficult all the way through.

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edgaras1103

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There is nothing to snub. Dark souls 3 was just OK, not top 10 of the year material.

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blackichigo

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#49  Edited By blackichigo

@edgaras1103: Yep, it's hard to snub a game the that take almost no risks. It's a decent Souls game but that is all it is. These returns are deminished than a motherfucker. It might have been better if it were someone's first souls game, but it's hard to say. DS3 spends most of its time trying to remind you how awesome DS1 is.

"You remember this boss? Well, he's back. You remember this npc? He's back too. You remember this weapon? I have it too. You already love all these things right? Please love me!"

It's a real catch 22. It's good game but it's enjoyment depends on you playing the other games. But if you have played the other games, it you may burn out like I did. I beat the final boss, (Who's is yet another DS1 call back) and didn't even care.

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edgaras1103

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#50  Edited By edgaras1103

@blackichigo: I agree. The first souls games is always gonna be a special experience. For me it was Dark souls 1. And Bloodborne was quite a fresh take on formula. DS3 just did not felt ambitious, like From Software felt too comfortable in their own shoes. Like it's not a bad it was just OK.

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