@SeriouslyNow said:

GFWL uses a separate program, it's just installed as a service in Windows so you don't realise it. Steam has never caused me a delay and I've been using it since before HL2 preloaded.

Yes, I know it installed as service, it used to run as service alone without a actual client application. I am speaking of the actual program with the user interface. I know now GFWL run its own program as well, as I said it started the program as needed without delay and auto shut it off as it is no longer needed which Steam doesn't have, it did caused a few seconds delay you are most likely didn't notice it, I ran the game Dead Space 2 with a Steam and another with a non-Steam version. Non-Steam version clearly start up faster without Steam.

@henx2010: You mean pirated version? Dead Space 2 is a Steamworks game. There is no non-steam version as far as I know. The pirated version is faster because it fakes Steam DRM Authentication.

@SeriouslyNow: No, non-steam doesn't mean pirate version, FYI Steam isn't the only online game store on the web. I meant non-Steam version that is version download from either Origin (it doesn't need Origin to run in the background to play the game), or GameFly (previously known as Direct2Drive).

@SeriouslyNow said:

@henx2010: You mean pirated version? Dead Space 2 is a Steamworks game. There is no non-steam version as far as I know. The pirated version is faster because it fakes Steam DRM Authentication.

There definitely is a non-steam stand-alone retail version of Dead Space 2. When I pre-ordered the limited edition of it with the plasma cutter model, I didn't have to do anything more than register it online to the DRM server that it used and that was it. Even the patch for the game to fix the issues it had before were literally an exe file replacement (and not a crack in any way) for this version of the game.

@henx2010 said:

@SeriouslyNow: No, non-steam doesn't mean pirate version, FYI Steam isn't the only online game store on the web. I meant non-Steam version that is version download from either Origin (it doesn't need Origin to run in the background to play the game), or GameFly (previously known as Direct2Drive).

Oh, I thought it was a Steamworks game, having achievements and all. My bad. And yes, I'm quite well aware of things existing outside of Steam. Most recently, I've bought the HD release of MDK2 from Beamdog. FYI just because I validly complain about how shit GFWL is and celebrate how good Steam is by comparison that doesn't mean that I don't know other services exist and don't use them. I've also bought plenty of games on GoG.com too, including The Witcher 2.

@ShiftyMagician said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@henx2010: You mean pirated version? Dead Space 2 is a Steamworks game. There is no non-steam version as far as I know. The pirated version is faster because it fakes Steam DRM Authentication.

There definitely is a non-steam stand-alone retail version of Dead Space 2. When I pre-ordered the limited edition of it with the plasma cutter model, I didn't have to do anything more than register it online to the DRM server that it used and that was it. Even the patch for the game to fix the issues it had before were literally an exe file replacement (and not a crack in any way) for this version of the game.

Thanks. I didn't know that.

@SeriouslyNow: Yes, I heard of negative things about GFWL, I heard people said things like GFWL caused bug in the game or caused their computer with problems. I am have been playing a lot of game titles using GFWL from couple of years back when it first introduced up till today. I never have any issue with it. If the game was buggy it was caused by the game itself, it didn't matter it was running on GFWL or Steam. Fallout NV or Skyrim run only on Steam but those games have more bugs than most of GFWL titles I had played.

Personally, I am not much of a fan of GFWL nor any other client services for that matter but if I must choose between dealing with Steam or GFWL then I would much rather deal with GFWL anytime.

@henx2010: You're in the minority. Game bugs have nothing to with GFWL bugs. GFWL handles netcode and updates and when either of those fail on a GFWL game it's not the game's fault. It's funny that you mention Fallout NV but don't mention Fallout 3 which was plagued with issues and it was a GFWL game. I think you're inviting me to a game of spot the straw-man. No thanks. Of course there are examples where GFWL hasn't caused me issues too, such as my copy of Lost Planet 2 but that's easily counter acted by games using the same engine by the same company, Street Fighter IV and Dead Rising 2 both having similar and repeated update issues. Red Faction Guerrilla also has had repeated update issues. I have over 200 games on Steam. None of the non GFWL games has ever presented me with an issue. Not a single one. And I preloaded HL2 and unlocked on the day of release. In Australia!

I gather you don't like Steam and that's cool but I will say I think you're being irrational and giving no evidence to show where Steam has inconvenienced you aside from making you wait a few seconds longer to launch one game.

@SeriouslyNow: I did forget to mention Fallout 3 and yes it is one of GFWL titles but then again it was from the same game developer who made New Vegas on Steam, it had load of issues here and there but nothing relate to any actual update. I had issue during gameplay with New Vegas which is running only on Steam. I haven't experienced any issue with any update that you speak of in fact I played both Street Fighter IV and Dead Rising 2 never have any kind of issue at all.

You're right I don't like Steam aside of some annoyances that I mentioned earlier, I hate that I have to create a Steam account just to play Steam game whereas GFWL used any hotmail/msn email account which is what I am using for my email account so I didn't create any new account at all. The only reason I ended up with setting up Steam account was because a few years back that I got a free copy of Batman: Arkham Asylum with the purchase of my new video card, later on down the road I ended up getting the what you called a pirated version just so I can avoid running Steam even though I have legal copy of the game.

My concern wasn't anything to do with technical issue, not that I ever have any issue from Steam or GFWL (although I can't say the same for EA Origin) then again that I don't have many games on Steam to compare with GFWL. I guess to each their own.

I should mention that the bottom line for me is that I simply hate any form of DRM that require client service running a separate program that including Steam, Origin, and GFWL. If I must deal with DRM I would prefer SecuROM which use no client service at all.