Dead Rising 2 and the Boss Fight

Alphazero

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Edited By Alphazero

At its core, Dead Rising 2 is a sandbox game. The player is given 1) an endless supply of zombies to beat to death 2) a large interconnected area of shopping malls, casinos, subway tunnels, rooftops, and a smidgen of open space and finally 3) a loose, time-driven story to keep the protagonist, Chuck Greene, moving. Mix in some blunt instruments and the ability to combine weapon elements into new configurations, and the shuffling undead don't stand a chance.

People, on the other hand, are a much bigger problem. Scattered around the world are survivors of the zombie outbreak, some of which need your help to return to the safe house. Other survivors have come completely unhinged and attempt to battle you to the death.

In the old days of video games, you fought a bunch of aliens, and at the end of the level you fought a much bigger, tougher alien. What do you do then, in a fairly realistic game setting, to create this same boss fight experience without breaking the fiction? In Kane & Lynch 2, which was going for a very realistic vibe, after murdering hundreds of easier bad guys, you'd be asked to murder even more, but all at the same time. In the Assassin's Creed series, you're asked to ass assinate (go figure) specific individuals that are holed up in a difficult place for you to access. In Dead Rising you have to fight unturned humans, and they are a huge pain in the ass.

Frank West from the first Dead Rising covered wars, but Chuck Greene is the one with the motocross experience and chin cleavage required to survive in the sequel. He can swing a baseball bat covered in nails like he's done it professionally, with thousands of zombies getting the beat down without even getting a scratch. Put him up against an 18-year-old mall worker in a giant headed costume, however, and he can barely touch the guy. I think this is what makes the boss fights so frustrating. Through the bulk of the game you can cut zombies down like grass, but the difficulty spikes dramatically with the psychopaths, and other than them being ginned up on crazy there isn't really any story justification.

But what do you do as a game designer? How else could you handle it? You want to have signature moments in the game that stand out from the rest. I can say from experience that defeating Slappy was a thrill, and hilarious to boot, but the fact that I couldn't tee him up like a golf ball with my spiked bat as he roller skated around was frustrating as hell and seemed to contradict all of the rules the game had taught me thus far about how to handle the fragile people and ex-people around me. Each boss in Dead Rising 2 has at least one trick that makes taking him out easy, which further removes it from the real world.

Maybe if the story justified it, I would have been happier. Say some small percentage of the population gets super-powers instead of brain-hunger. Another part of the problem might stem from things looking so realistic, but the game itself still being, well, a video game -- a great one, at that. It might just be that because games are starting to look more like real life, I expect them to act like it as well. The truth is I don't want that. Despite what Zynga might think, PropertyTaxVille doesn't have any appeal to me.

Dead Rising 2, as a zombie slaying sandbox game, is a blast. I loved the story, and especially loved the ridiculous characters, but man, when you stab a guy in the face and neck, sometimes you just want him to fall over the first time, you know?

13 years ago

Alphazero

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#1 Edited By Alphazero

At its core, Dead Rising 2 is a sandbox game. The player is given 1) an endless supply of zombies to beat to death 2) a large interconnected area of shopping malls, casinos, subway tunnels, rooftops, and a smidgen of open space and finally 3) a loose, time-driven story to keep the protagonist, Chuck Greene, moving. Mix in some blunt instruments and the ability to combine weapon elements into new configurations, and the shuffling undead don't stand a chance.

People, on the other hand, are a much bigger problem. Scattered around the world are survivors of the zombie outbreak, some of which need your help to return to the safe house. Other survivors have come completely unhinged and attempt to battle you to the death.

In the old days of video games, you fought a bunch of aliens, and at the end of the level you fought a much bigger, tougher alien. What do you do then, in a fairly realistic game setting, to create this same boss fight experience without breaking the fiction? In Kane & Lynch 2, which was going for a very realistic vibe, after murdering hundreds of easier bad guys, you'd be asked to murder even more, but all at the same time. In the Assassin's Creed series, you're asked to ass assinate (go figure) specific individuals that are holed up in a difficult place for you to access. In Dead Rising you have to fight unturned humans, and they are a huge pain in the ass.

Frank West from the first Dead Rising covered wars, but Chuck Greene is the one with the motocross experience and chin cleavage required to survive in the sequel. He can swing a baseball bat covered in nails like he's done it professionally, with thousands of zombies getting the beat down without even getting a scratch. Put him up against an 18-year-old mall worker in a giant headed costume, however, and he can barely touch the guy. I think this is what makes the boss fights so frustrating. Through the bulk of the game you can cut zombies down like grass, but the difficulty spikes dramatically with the psychopaths, and other than them being ginned up on crazy there isn't really any story justification.

But what do you do as a game designer? How else could you handle it? You want to have signature moments in the game that stand out from the rest. I can say from experience that defeating Slappy was a thrill, and hilarious to boot, but the fact that I couldn't tee him up like a golf ball with my spiked bat as he roller skated around was frustrating as hell and seemed to contradict all of the rules the game had taught me thus far about how to handle the fragile people and ex-people around me. Each boss in Dead Rising 2 has at least one trick that makes taking him out easy, which further removes it from the real world.

Maybe if the story justified it, I would have been happier. Say some small percentage of the population gets super-powers instead of brain-hunger. Another part of the problem might stem from things looking so realistic, but the game itself still being, well, a video game -- a great one, at that. It might just be that because games are starting to look more like real life, I expect them to act like it as well. The truth is I don't want that. Despite what Zynga might think, PropertyTaxVille doesn't have any appeal to me.

Dead Rising 2, as a zombie slaying sandbox game, is a blast. I loved the story, and especially loved the ridiculous characters, but man, when you stab a guy in the face and neck, sometimes you just want him to fall over the first time, you know?

13 years ago

ozzdog12

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#2 Edited By ozzdog12

The boss fight, especially the last one, is why Capcom games in general aren't fun to play. They become more of a hassle than anything. I loved the first Dead Rising, but this one improved on somethings but seems to be 'worse'.

13 years ago

craigbo180

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#3 Edited By craigbo180

Ehh only the last two boss fights were annoying really, the last one in particular was pretty lame. I don't really see what your getting at with psychos apparent superhuman levels of tolerance to spiked bat, chainsaws, guns and other such items taking away from the experience and breaking realism... because dead rising 2 is a game ass game. Its a game where you have to suspend belief and I don't understand how this one thing is what breaks the immersion for you. Here are a few examples of the ridiculous things that occur in dead rising that are not realistic.

Chuck and survivors can take multiple zombie bites without ever turning or being effected, it only takes one in a cut scene
Chuck can be sliced half to death by a zombie loving hippie but its all good if he has some orange juice!
Whenever chuck changes clothes he takes a good few seconds to admire himself regardless of the fact he is surrounded by zombies
He can create a lightsaber from gems and a flashlight
With the use of a few steaks he can tame a tiger and have it follow him around
Chuck can survive falls from any height
With a guitar and an amp he can make zombies heads explode

That's a few examples and the game has lets face it, a fairly ridiculous setting and story. I enjoy dead rising for what it is, a damn game. You can just mess around in this crazy world and have a ton of fun or go through the game fighting even crazier psycho's. Despite what people think about the overpowered psycho's if they were underpowered to a few hits that would be way worse. I see where your coming from but I just don't think this is a game where it matters.

13 years ago

Alphazero

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#4 Edited By Alphazero

@craigbo180 said:

That's a few examples and the game has lets face it, a fairly ridiculous setting and story. I enjoy dead rising for what it is, a damn game. You can just mess around in this crazy world and have a ton of fun or go through the game fighting even crazier psycho's. Despite what people think about the overpowered psycho's if they were underpowered to a few hits that would be way worse. I see where your coming from but I just don't think this is a game where it matters. "

Definitely a game ass game. Maybe my problem with it is not so much there not being any story justification for what a pain in the ass the psychopaths are, maybe it's more the uneven difficulty. Even that's a style thing. Old games were hard as hell. Most new games teach you everything you need to do, then have you do it, then teach you some more.

So, on the one side is Portal, which educates you perfectly on how to solve the upcoming puzzles, and then makes you feel like a genius for applying what you were just taught. Loved it. On the other hand is games like Dead Rising where the difficulty spikes suddenly, with not much in the game leading up to it helping you prepare. I loved both games, but I guess I prefer the new style of education and application over the older style of, "FU player. Deal with with *this*."

13 years ago

craigbo180

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#5 Edited By craigbo180

@Alphazero said:

" @craigbo180 said:
That's a few examples and the game has lets face it, a fairly ridiculous setting and story. I enjoy dead rising for what it is, a damn game. You can just mess around in this crazy world and have a ton of fun or go through the game fighting even crazier psycho's. Despite what people think about the overpowered psycho's if they were underpowered to a few hits that would be way worse. I see where your coming from but I just don't think this is a game where it matters. "
Definitely a game ass game. Maybe my problem with it is not so much there not being any story justification for what a pain in the ass the psychopaths are, maybe it's more the uneven difficulty. Even that's a style thing. Old games were hard as hell. Most new games teach you everything you need to do, then have you do it, then teach you some more. So, on the one side is Portal, which educates you perfectly on how to solve the upcoming puzzles, and then makes you feel like a genius for applying what you were just taught. Loved it. On the other hand is games like Dead Rising where the difficulty spikes suddenly, with not much in the game leading up to it helping you prepare. I loved both games, but I guess I prefer the new style of education and application over the older style of, "FU player. Deal with with *this*." "

I see your point much better now and I can totally agree with you on that, that is a completely valid complaint to have about dead rising. Portal is a great example to use, portal has some really difficult puzzles but it handles difficulty in a very different way its a linear experience where you are always on your set path gradually being taught how to handle different puzzles and getting progressively harder. Dead rising is hard in the same way a megaman game is if you don't make the right decisions on which way to go your fucked, but there is no way to know so your basically fucked anyway. The appeal of dead rising to me is never knowing whats round the next corner, its the gameplay that makes me think oh right im going to get these survivors I better save, before I hit this area I should make sure I have some pizza and a chainsaw (also my policy in real life). It basically just boils down to trial and error and in a generation where most games checkpoint you every minute or during boss fights, health regenerates and you spend most of your time in gun battles hiding behind cover, dead rising says fuck that be a man, a drunken tuxedo wearing knife boxing glove wielding man... but a man none the less. I know portal is a better game then dead rising, there isn't much I would change about portal, dead rising has its flaws and everyone can see them but fuck it I love dead rising its triple A level of crazy simply cant be beat.

13 years ago

Seroth

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#6 Edited By Seroth

I really like the concept of the Psychopaths, but yeah, fighting them might not be that much fun.

They seemed to work better in Dead Rising 1.

It's like you're meant to "cheese" the boss fights. In Dead Rising 1, once you get the Real Mega Buster or the mini chainsaws, you pretty much never have difficulty with a boss fight again. They are simply minor nuisances with introduction cutscenes. But each bossfight had a unique theme song, which made the fights at least a little bit enjoyable.

In Dead Rising 2, you cheese the bossfights by bringing a couple of Pain Killers, and some knife gloves and just rush in (being level 50 helps, too). Sure, there are patterns that you can memorize, and probably finish the fights with minimal damage, but you just wanna get it over quickly... and I don't really remember any of the boss music from the game, and I've played it countless times over. :/

The boss fight in Case West was pretty cool, though.

13 years ago

Dead Rising 2

Dead Rising 2 is a third-person action-adventure survival horror game that takes place five years after the end of the original Dead Rising, moving its zombie apocalypse setting into the glamorous Fortune City.

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