This section of the review really surprised me.

"Frustratingly, I kept waiting for Death Stranding to offer something to say, something to justify the amount of breath spent explaining its most obvious metaphors and motivations. Unfortunately, it never gets there. Its early game musings on human connectedness and the need to bring people together never evolves over the 50 hours you'll spend playing it. The things it says at the beginning are pretty much the same things it's saying at the end, and none of those things are all that deep."

I've been seeing this sentiment a lot and I don't agree with it. I'm interested in what other people think about the themes presented in the game.

To get it out of the way, the dialog is bad and most of the characters are not interesting. The game doesn't present ideas in a subtle way at all. But I do think that this game presents some interesting ideas that absolutely do evolve over the course of the game.

I'm interested in what you think.

I'm about 30 hours in and I'm starting to agree with their review in some ways. For example, the fact that the message doesn't really change. Not that I have a problem with that necessarily, just that I don't need it repeated to me over and over again. I'm behind the concept of connecting people and uniting a nation. However, there's a tendency for some of the characters (Diehardman and Amelie) to sound like a broken record as if you need to be reminded why you're working for them.

I forgive it, though, because there's enough going on in the game to keep me curious. I don't mind the lack of subtlety, it's charming in its own way. After finishing the "Unger" episode I am even more invested in this game than before. I was completely blown away by that transition.

As @kmj2318 said, the dialog is bad and often leaves a lot to be desired. That being said, there are several moments where the characters and dialog have created a perfect storm for me to begin pondering the various possibilities of what this game is and what it could be. Somehow the game's flaws have still managed to enable it to provide an interesting experience that pushes me to derive my own narrative based in its blunt and strange behavior.

As the game explains itself, I have more questions. And I feel like I need to finish this to the very end to form my final opinion.

Isn't every settlement you add to the chiral network bringing people together its literally the entire point of the game, each settlement you add nets you new tools and gadgets a gameplay metaphor of being stronger together by connecting people.

I mean are you interested in hearing people tear the game down or are you interested in opinions about the actual plot? The game has a very singular focus and it carries it forward throughout the experience. Whether you like or enjoy this focus is subjective to every individual which is best exemplified by the varied reviews out there. IF you didn't like it, or you don't like the dialog then sure, but what is the actual point of the thread? So that we can all come together and reiterate that Kojima writes poorly or that he uses cliched and simple metaphors? I'm sure there are plenty of places where people are more than happy to go in detail about how "bad" everything about the narrative is.

Well, does it say something to you? And are you like "totally?" Then Death Stranding may have spoken to you!

@humanity: “ I mean are you interesting in hearing people tear the game down or are you interested in opinions about the actual plot?”

Either. The way you’re coming off is confusing to me. Maybe you misread the OP?

@thepanzini: that’s all true, but over the course of the game another narrative starts to show in little bits. Then the cutscenes that follows the first set of credits subverts a lot things.

@thepanzini: @humanity: “ I mean are you interesting in hearing people tear the game down or are you interested in opinions about the actual plot?”

Either. The way you’re coming off is confusing to me. Maybe you misread the OP?

@thepanzini: that’s all true, but over the course of the game another narrative starts to show in little bits. Then the cutscenes that follows the first set of credits subverts a lot things.

@kmj2318: Any chance you'd be willing to expand on what you mean (in spoiler tags)?

I only read a wikipedia summary of the game so I am definitely missing some nuance, but what you allude to sounded more like "plot" development than message development. Which I think is the crux of a lot of GB's issues with the game

To stick to Kojima: Think back to MGS2. All throughout that game there is the idea of the influence/memes left in our wake. Snake did Some Shit and Solidus was using that to further his own agenda. Raiden is entirely a product of men pretending they are Big Boss and then trying to recreate Solid Snake. Snake, and by association Raiden, never asked for this, but they caused it. But Big Shell, particularly the last half, added on the theme of passing on one's self, one's "memes", through one's loved ones. Snake and Otacon are bestest buds by this point and Raiden/Rose needs no elaboration (well, it probably does, but not on this topic). Even Emma (problematic as she was) is a product of her love for her brother (... kojima predicted the incest porn craze?).

it is overall a similar message: What you do matters and will impact generations to come. But it starts more on the side of "our sins live on" and gradually (read: rapidly and abruptly) shifts to the idea of needing to make connections (hmmm) with loved ones to pass on one's good, not just one's bad.

Neither are particularly deep, but MGS2 (and 1 and 3 and 4 and Rising) at least seemed to do a better job of building on the initial premise. By all accounts, Death Stranding's overall message/"philosophy" does not change from start to finish. Whether that matters or not is up to you, but I am very curious if there was some bit summaries didn't capture.

This seems like a spoiler thread so i'm not going to mark anything. (not that I go into details that much)

It does have something to say but it's very simple and you can pretty much glean what that is from the trailers. I dont feel like the message evolves but to be fair a good story (in my opinion) doesnt need a strong message or need to make some kind of statement it just needs good character developement and an interesting plot. I found the characters and the world interesting initially, when I didnt know much about them but after hours worth of exposition and technobabble (nonsense in other words) I couldnt care less, and the characters are only as deep as their gimmick, they dont change much beyond maybe Sam himself but even then it feels artificial and it doesnt help that he goes out of his way to state "I have changed!".

I still enjoyed the game for it's bombast though.

@gundato:

I don't think I agree with the assessment that the message "never evolves" or that the game has "nothing to say" now that I've finished it.

So those are examples of why I think it did have an evolving message and "something to say". All that said, I think the story pacing in the game was terrible and I think it backloaded way too much of it. I also don't think the story was earthshattering or anything. But I do think it was more complex than the "connections = good stuff" from the beginning of the game and the marketing campaign.

MG1 - Nuclear proliferation bad/Don't be a tool

MGS2 - MEMES/Don't be a tool

MGS3 - Nukes still bad/Sometimes you have to be a tool

MGS4 - I have no fucking idea, please help

MGS5 - Great gameplay/Underrated Multiplayer/Quiet was mostly naked for reasons, you see

Death Stranding - Fighting against extinction gives purpose to life/Live day to day/Make real connections/Don't get addicted to likes/don't use babies as tools/don't overburden yourself/Visit Iceland

Uh yeah, I'm thinking it's pretty deep. Alex didn't get it because he's a drummer

@abetorias: for MGS4 if say that the during the Iraq and Afghanistan War the idea of commodifying war by way of PMCs with Blackwater being in the News at the time Kojima decided to take it to the extreme by making every aspect of war into a heavily controlled and monetized thing where slick commercials for PMC groups and mood stabilizers for every combat scenario were common place. Everything is ID tagged down to the bullet as if every gun is ready to be audited and foreign countries are sectioned off like a work site and borders sold by the contract and are under occupation by contractors. Once war is controlled and monetized to such extremes we in turn see it as the norm and no longer see it as an abberation but business as normal.